Dwight Coward Discussion

Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:11 pm

Howard is basically a 20 million dollar athletic Asik.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:47 pm

abeer3 wrote:i like team rebounding percentage when said player is on the floor. guys who draw a lot of attention on the glass create boards for teammates, too. i'd have to look up howard's stats there, but i'm guessing it looks good.

anyway, i'm not denying he's got a couple major flaws (post game, fts); i'm just saying the lakers will spend 20 million dollars per over the next few years on two or more guys who aren't worth what flawed Dwight howard is. jmo.

and that's not trashing the lakers front office; they did what they needed to in terms of trying to re-sign him. they couldn't fire another coach; they couldn't trade kobe. but howard continuing to be a turd doesn't take the sting out of losing the best player at his position. now, if his back injury comes back to haunt him, i'll agree that the lakers dodged a bullet. but not right now.


Well.... the flip side of that is having one player that dominates an aspect of the game like rebounding makes others lazy at it. We've seen it with scoring and Kobe for a long time. Toss it to him and stand still....
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby Ras Algethi on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Howard is basically a 20 million dollar athletic Asik.


He's a slightly richer man's Ben Wallace.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby kenzo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:51 pm

Ras Algethi wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Howard is basically a 20 million dollar athletic Asik.


He's a slightly richer man's Ben Wallace.

Wallace was making 15 mil a season... this makes Dwight look almost good :man12:.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby Balance&Options24 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:58 pm

Him or Mutombo in their primes?
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:04 pm

Mutombo for me. Howard had (note HAD) a bigger upside than Motumbo but he has failed to improve EVER. Mutombo knew his game, knew his limitations and stayed within them. More importantly he wasn't, if memory serves me right, a cancer to his team. Dwight has fallen from next great big man to a guy who needs to spoon fed and can block some shots.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:04 pm

Mutombo for me. Howard had (note HAD) a bigger upside than Motumbo but he has failed to improve EVER. Mutombo knew his game, knew his limitations and stayed within them. More importantly he wasn't, if memory serves me right, a cancer to his team. Dwight has fallen from next great big man to a guy who needs to spoon fed and can block some shots.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:11 am

I'll take Howard. As limited as Howard is offensively... still better than Mutumbo :man10:
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby v1n5anity on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:16 am

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Mutombo for me. Howard had (note HAD) a bigger upside than Motumbo but he has failed to improve EVER.
Mutombo knew his game, knew his limitations and stayed within them
. More importantly he wasn't, if memory serves me right, a cancer to his team. Dwight has fallen from next great big man to a guy who needs to spoon fed and can block some shots.


I agree. That's the issue with Howard, he thinks he's better than he is. I used to be one of the biggest fans of Dwight before he came here, but he's definitely regressed since Orlando.

What you said about Mutombo knowing his limitations is exactly why I'd take Hibbert over Howard if I'm building a championship team. Hibbert isn't a great scorer (I know he had 24 yesterday). He can exploit the Heat because of their size, but overall against guys at his height, he's nothing special. But the dude dominates the game. If Howard could stick to maximizing his strengths, he would easily be the best C in the league. But now that he's gone, it's funny to laugh at him :man10:
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby purp n gold on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:28 am

This is the problem... Howard is about 6'9" or 6'10" at most. It's his freakish arms + athleticism that allowed him to be compared to great centers. But now that he's older and his athleticism is fading, he plays like a Ben Wallace with no toughness.

Every team (except ours) along the way has tried to play Dwight at PF, but he insists on playing Center. When he started in Orl he started alongside Tony Battie at PF. Stan Van even wanted to play him in lineups with Marcin Gortat, but he wasn't having it. McHale suggested that Howard can play PF with Asik, and that resulted in Asik requesting a trade. Smh... :man10:

The other problem is that he hasn't developed a game as a PF or C, and somehow he's a tweener now who can't make free throws. I really don't know who to compare him to... I don't see Mutombo at all in Dwight. A freakishly athletic Theo Ratliff? Ben Wallace with big shoulders and no heart? Or maybe even Alonzo Mourning with no heart, and no post moves. That's the best I can think of lol.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby revgen on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:51 pm

Mutombo won a DPOY and was starting on an NBA Finals squad at the age of 34. Even though Mutombo was older, he was still 7'2", so he could still block and affect shots. D12 keeps losing his athleticism as he gets older. I don't see him winning DPOY's when he's 34.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:33 pm

purp n gold wrote:This is the problem... Howard is about 6'9" or 6'10" at most. It's his freakish arms + athleticism that allowed him to be compared to great centers. But now that he's older and his athleticism is fading, he plays like a Ben Wallace with no toughness.

Every team (except ours) along the way has tried to play Dwight at PF, but he insists on playing Center. When he started in Orl he started alongside Tony Battie at PF. Stan Van even wanted to play him in lineups with Marcin Gortat, but he wasn't having it. McHale suggested that Howard can play PF with Asik, and that resulted in Asik requesting a trade. Smh... :man10:

The other problem is that he hasn't developed a game as a PF or C, and somehow he's a tweener now who can't make free throws. I really don't know who to compare him to... I don't see Mutombo at all in Dwight. A freakishly athletic Theo Ratliff? Ben Wallace with big shoulders and no heart? Or maybe even Alonzo Mourning with no heart, and no post moves. That's the best I can think of lol.


Alonzo should never have his name brought into a conversation comparing the skills and style of play of Dwight Clown Howard. He would be PISSED.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby purp n gold on Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:59 pm

Well I thought I covered my tracks by saying "no heart and no post moves". :man10:

I was at a loss thinking of very athletic shorter centers to compare him to. It really highlights how much Dwight hasn't developed as a player.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby gcclaker on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:31 pm

purp n gold wrote:Well I thought I covered my tracks by saying "no heart and no post moves". :man10:

I was at a loss thinking of very athletic shorter centers to compare him to. It really highlights how much Dwight hasn't developed as a player.

Putting Howard in the same sentence as Mourning is like having a poodle next to a lion.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby purp n gold on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:00 am

I disagree, it's more like a Dwight is a Poodle and 'Zo is a German Sheppard.

If anything Kareem is the lion and Hakeem is the tiger
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:33 am

revgen wrote:Mutombo won a DPOY and was starting on an NBA Finals squad at the age of 34. Even though Mutombo was older, he was still 7'2", so he could still block and affect shots. D12 keeps losing his athleticism as he gets older. I don't see him winning DPOY's when he's 34.


Howard is already done winning the DPOY award .. He will never come back to his Orlando days but it does not even matter since you can't win this award on a bad/average at best defensive team which is what the Rockets are and will stay
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby gcclaker on Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:13 am

purp n gold wrote:I disagree, it's more like a Dwight is a Poodle and 'Zo is a German Shepherd.

If anything Kareem is the lion and Hakeem is the tiger

That works. Stay within the canines. :man1:
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:14 pm

Here's Dwight's stats from NBA.com

He averages 35.9 minutes per game.

DEFENSE

BLK - 2.4
Opponent FG% at the rim - 47.7FG%
REB - 14.2
Reb% - 22.1%
Percentage of Rebounds Per Chance - 68.4%
REB Chances per game - 20.7
Contested Rebounds Per Game - 4.0
Uncontested Rebound Per Game - 10.2
Contested Rebound Percentage - 28.2%

OFFENSE

PPG - 17.8
eFG% - 52.9%
TS% - 55.5%
Close Shots Points Per Game - 5.5
Close Shot FG% - 64.1%
Catch and Shoot Shots Per Game - 0.2
Catch and Shoot FG% - 25%
APG - 1.6
Passes Per Game - 42.3
Assist Opportunities Per Game - 3.4
Points Created By Assist Per Game - 3.8
AST% - 8.3%
TOV - 3.4
AST/TOV - 0.49
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby Helljumper on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:22 pm

So much for Olajuwon helping Dwight get an actual post game:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/19/olajuwon-the-teacher-reaches-out-to-nigerian-youth-and-dwight-howard/

“Dwight has always been athletic and aggressive and he still is. But when I watch him, what I see are opportunities that he is missing. When he gets the ball, he seems to be taking his time to decide what move to make, where he should go.

“There should not be a delay for Dwight. He must be able to make a faster recognition of the situations and react immediately with a go-to move. You must move right away before the defense has a chance to set up. You must be the one making the first move so that you can force the defender to always be the one reacting.

“I thought we were doing a good job with this when we were working together over the summer and at the start of training camp. But what I see now is that when Dwight gets in competition, he has a tendency to go back to all of his old habits. He’s just doing all of the things that he did before. He needs a reminder.”
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby The Rock on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:55 pm

SVG was the best thing to happen to Dwight. He used to take 4.1 hook shots a game its down to 2.4 this year
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-11-19/dwight-howard-stats-stan-van-gundy-rockets-lakers-magic-kevin-mchale-mike-dantoni-mike-brown-brian-hill
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:50 pm

Helljumper wrote:So much for Olajuwon helping Dwight get an actual post game:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/19/olajuwon-the-teacher-reaches-out-to-nigerian-youth-and-dwight-howard/

“Dwight has always been athletic and aggressive and he still is. But when I watch him, what I see are opportunities that he is missing. When he gets the ball, he seems to be taking his time to decide what move to make, where he should go.

“There should not be a delay for Dwight. He must be able to make a faster recognition of the situations and react immediately with a go-to move. You must move right away before the defense has a chance to set up. You must be the one making the first move so that you can force the defender to always be the one reacting.

“I thought we were doing a good job with this when we were working together over the summer and at the start of training camp. But what I see now is that when Dwight gets in competition, he has a tendency to go back to all of his old habits. He’s just doing all of the things that he did before. He needs a reminder.”


I figured he would only work so hard with Dream, until it wasn't fun or was too much work. Apparently not enough to improve, yet again. So who is Houston's back up big man once they get rid of Asik, if someone tears his labia again? :man1: :man12:
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:07 am

The f***er wouldn't even TRY working with Kareem. :man10:

He's worked with Hakeem for what, 4 years now? He's NOT going to learn.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:59 am

therealdeal wrote:I'll take Howard. As limited as Howard is offensively... still better than Mutumbo :man10:

I respect your opinion but disagree.The only thing Dwight has better than Mount Mutumbo at this point is "potential." Dwight is an athletic beast but he can't even use it for his benifit. 3 years ago I would laugh at the question too but facts are facts and the question isn't so easily dismissed. That is how far Dwight has fallen in my opinion. Mutumbo was never to be considered the next greatest center of the game. Dwight was. Mutumbo was a defensive shot blocker with and ok offensive game but nothing great. Dwight is a defensive shot blocker with no offensive game borderlining on comedy. The very first time somone rips that shoulder of Dwights his season will go in the tank again. Physcial is leaving him. Soon (next 2 years I expect) we will be asking if he is no better than Ben Wallace who was all defense and no offense too.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby gcclaker on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:07 pm

Helljumper wrote:So much for Olajuwon helping Dwight get an actual post game:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/19/olajuwon-the-teacher-reaches-out-to-nigerian-youth-and-dwight-howard/

“Dwight has always been athletic and aggressive and he still is. But when I watch him, what I see are opportunities that he is missing. When he gets the ball, he seems to be taking his time to decide what move to make, where he should go.

“There should not be a delay for Dwight. He must be able to make a faster recognition of the situations and react immediately with a go-to move. You must move right away before the defense has a chance to set up. You must be the one making the first move so that you can force the defender to always be the one reacting.

“I thought we were doing a good job with this when we were working together over the summer and at the start of training camp. But what I see now is that when Dwight gets in competition, he has a tendency to go back to all of his old habits. He’s just doing all of the things that he did before. He needs a reminder.”

Lack of touch. Mechanical and rote mobility. No instinct. Inability to anticipate. Add all of that up and you summarize Howard's game on offense. He's a very good help defender which all I can say.

Bryant was able to take Olajuwon's teachings to make himself a threat on the low block. The footwork. The show and go. Up and unders. Spins and counters... The Oba saw that in a game at Houston too where his student showed the teacher that it works.
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Re: Dwight Coward Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:15 pm

Mutombo never really had a consistent offense. He was never asked to do it. He was a rim protector, one of the best rim protectors, but he wasn't an offensive powerhouse either. Offensively their SKILLS might be about the same, but because teams have always given it to Dwight (and because he's more inclined to want the ball down low) he'll produce more than Mutombo did.

Defensively Mutombo might be one of the best rim protectors there ever was. He was a great shot blocker. Dwight is too. Mutombo probably has the edge given years of consistency and desire on that end. Dwight doesn't have that much heart.

Rebounding goes to Dwight as well. Dwight is just a monster on the glass in this era. Mutombo was good, sometimes great. Dwight is consistently great in that area. His athleticism just lends to great ability on the glass. It's something he can just do well naturally.

Now if we're talking TODAY'S Dwight against Mutombo in his PRIME... I suppose that's a better argument. But if they're both at their peak levels then I'm picking Dwight.

If we're talking who do I like more? Or who had/has a better chance of winning something then it's Mutombo.
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