George Karl fired!

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby trodgers on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:40 pm

In his 22 trips to the playoffs, his team lost to the team that won a ring FIVE times.
His team lost to the team that represented his conference in the finals a further SIX times.

Included in those teams: 80s Celtics and Lakers, Malone's Jazz, Jordan's Bulls, Reggie's Pacers, Shaq/Kobe's Lakers, and Duncan's Spurs. Losing to those teams doesn't really mean your team or coach sucks.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46640
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby trodgers on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:52 pm

If I might add...

Karl hasn't had a losing record since 1987-88. In the 21 seasons since then, he has made the playoffs 20 (missed one year, going 41-41) times, and he's 216 games over .500.

He's 7th all-time in wins.
He's 14th all-time in win%.
He's 6th all-time in playoff games.
He's 10th all-time in playoff wins.

Do you know how many active coaches are >.500 in the playoffs?

Popovich
Byron Scott
Alvin Gentry
Mike Brown
Stan Van Gundy
Paul Westphal
Doc Rivers
Rick Carlisle
Rick Adelman
Jeff Van Gundy

So, which ones are available? It's not like Karl would be a BAD choice. You might not like him, but he has had great success as an NBA coach.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46640
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby Lqv2015 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:20 pm

Was he CotY this season? wow
LAKERS-4-LIFE
User avatar
Lqv2015

 
Posts: 6057
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:59 am

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby Weezy on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:43 pm

I don't know that I or anyone is saying Karl sucks trodgers, personally he's just not the coach for me. A lot of coaches have been beaten by the eventual champs, 4 per year. Karl is a quality coach, but I wouldn't have confidence in his ability to take my team all the way, he gets bounced in the playoffs too quick, too often with good teams. He's a good coach, just not IMO not enough of an upgrade over 'Antoni to fire him to hire Karl.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50881
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby karacha on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:12 am

Don't do it, Mitch. Karl would pretty much be the same as MDA. He does not preach D and he is a regular season coach. Don't get me wrong.... he's good. But he prefers up-tempo style with some postups here and there, and I don't believe he's the coach who can win the championship with us. Basically, replacing MDA with Carl is a lateral move.
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

-Troll Kupchak
User avatar
karacha
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby 432J on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:11 am

he definitely doesn't suck as a head coach but no way he's an improvement over MDA

his teams don't play much D and he's had a similar playoff turnout to dantoni in recent years
Image
User avatar
432J

 
Posts: 4797
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby Congo Cash on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:06 pm

Pass... While he is better than MDA, he is not much of an improvement overall... Stop wasting money on marginal upgrades...
- insert signature here -
User avatar
Congo Cash

 
Posts: 4533
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:58 am
Location: Philippines

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby FabFourLakers on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:01 am

trodgers wrote:If I might add...

Karl hasn't had a losing record since 1987-88. In the 21 seasons since then, he has made the playoffs 20 (missed one year, going 41-41) times, and he's 216 games over .500.

He's 7th all-time in wins.
He's 14th all-time in win%.
He's 6th all-time in playoff games.
He's 10th all-time in playoff wins.

Do you know how many active coaches are >.500 in the playoffs?

Popovich
Byron Scott
Alvin Gentry
Mike Brown
Stan Van Gundy
Paul Westphal
Doc Rivers
Rick Carlisle
Rick Adelman
Jeff Van Gundy

So, which ones are available? It's not like Karl would be a BAD choice. You might not like him, but he has had great success as an NBA coach.


Alright, let's throw some more stats out there about Karl:

Playoff record: 80-105
Was the coach of the #1 seeded Sonics when they were upset by the #8 Nuggets, first time in NBA history that happened.
Here's another interesting stat:

Teams to win 31+ of final 40 regular season games, then lose in the 1st round:

TEAM, LAST 40, COACH
12-13 DEN, 33-7, George Karl
07-08 HOU, 32-8, Rick Adelman
06-07 DAL, 33-7, Avery Johnson
04-05 DEN, 32-8, George Karl
93-94 SEA, 31-9, George Karl
72-73 MIL, 31-9, Larry Costello

The fact that this idiot of a coach is on that list THREE TIMES in 3 completely different eras is an absolute joke. I don't care how much "regular season" success he's had...it hasn't translated to wins in the playoffs, better yet, he has been bounced in the first round 8 of the last 9 seasons...so more recently, the trend is that Karl is a loser. Ppl are giving Karl that "free pass" and not giving Dantoni that same "free pass" based on Karl's "regular season" success and his past "playoff" success....Dantoni would have been in the FINALS if not for ROBERT HORRY's stunt on Steve Nash in game 5 a few years back (ask any Phoenix Suns fan about this)...and the coach? Dantoni. I'm not even trying to imply or state that dantoni is a GOOD COACH, because he's NOT. I'm tryign to say that Karl should NOT be considered a good coach just cuz he had some early success in the playoffs and got to the finals once. If that's how we're rating coaches, then Dantoni is a GREAT coach. See how dumb that sounds?

Karl has maintained his style for years and it has NEVER WON A DAMN THING. Like i said, i really think the most telling stat is 80-105. He has a below .500 mark in the playoffs and he's probably got the worst playoff record among coaches that have coached at least 150 games in the playoffs. I'll need to look it up but I'm almost positive he is the worst in that category, and thus, the most overrated. Keep racking up 57 win regular seasons and then LOSE in the first round. Only time he got out with the Nuggs was when he had Melo lol. Funny cuz he trashed melo after he left...and now that he STILL lost without Melo and he has nobody to blame but himself, he got canned, like he should have been years ago.
User avatar
FabFourLakers

 
Posts: 11764
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:47 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby trodgers on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:49 am

So you don't think that there are good champions (like the Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics) and bad champions (like Dallas) - and that this matters when we see when a team is eliminated?

A 1 seed vs. an 8 seed isn't always that bad a thing - and you know that. As our season was coming to a close, we WANTED to be 8 depending upon what happened, as that would let us face the 1 seed. And we thought we had a good chance against the 1 seed.

So simply throwing out the numbers you did without context doesn't do much. That's why I included the teams he was eliminated by and what happened to those teams.

Tell me where you stand so we can be clear:

Q1: At the NBA Level...
1. Karl is a good or better coach.
2. Karl is an average coach.
3. Karl is a bad or worse coach.

Q2: Compared to MDA...
1. Karl is a better option
2. Karl is just as good
3. Karl is worse

I choose option 1 and option 1.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46640
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby karacha on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:43 am

He's not a real upgrade for this team. He's marginally better then MDA, perhaps... and that's all. This is not a Karl-type roster. IMO, of course. Karl is good, but he is not an elite coach.
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

-Troll Kupchak
User avatar
karacha
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby trodgers on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:16 am

You can stick with what you've got, or you can try to get better. I don't see them making moves toward getting an elite coach...so why not upgrade?
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46640
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby Weezy on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:46 am

I just don't think he's a big enough upgrade to fire and pay 'Antoni still. We did that once with going from Brown to 'Antoni, IMO Karl doesn't take us to the next level, and with the Lakers that's the goal.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50881
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby purp n gold on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:42 pm

Karl gone, Masai Urjri in TO... Denver rolling out the carpet for Phil and Shaw.

It's close to Montana, and hey, it IS legal out there... just sayin' :pipe:

:man6: :man6: :man6: come back Phil
There are two teams that play in the Staples Center:
the LA Lakers and NBA Clippers.
User avatar
purp n gold

 
Posts: 2339
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:39 am

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby karacha on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:52 pm

trodgers wrote:You can stick with what you've got, or you can try to get better. I don't see them making moves toward getting an elite coach...so why not upgrade?


Because that marginal upgrade still costs a lot of money.
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

-Troll Kupchak
User avatar
karacha
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby trodgers on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:44 am

karacha wrote:
trodgers wrote:You can stick with what you've got, or you can try to get better. I don't see them making moves toward getting an elite coach...so why not upgrade?


Because that marginal upgrade still costs a lot of money.

Maybe not. And it would likely be less than they were prepared to pay had Brown gone unemployed.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46640
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby abeer3 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:01 am

trodgers wrote:Tell me where you stand so we can be clear:

Q1: At the NBA Level...
1. Karl is a good or better coach.
2. Karl is an average coach.
3. Karl is a bad or worse coach.

Q2: Compared to MDA...
1. Karl is a better option
2. Karl is just as good
3. Karl is worse

I choose option 1 and option 1.


2 and 2. i think karl's pretty overrated, due to the points enumerated above. i feel like he gets routinely out-coached in the playoffs (as opposed to his teams simply being outplayed). he reminds me of nellie in many ways, actually.

i don't think he represents much of an upgrade over dantoni--and i really don't like dantoni. if the lakers lost howard and were rebuilding, post-kobe, i might want to bring in karl. but for a team with aspirations for contention, i'd stay away. from both guys.

the problem is that the list of guys who can manage that situation is really short.

aside from phil jackson, the available coach i'd want the lakers to look at would be hollins. not so much because of his resume, but because of the fact that he's won with a roster somewhat similar to the lakers' current roster (two bigs, one of whom can't defend, poor perimeter shooting, shallow bench). and now i'm off topic.

in short: i don't think karl's a bad coach, but i don't think he's done anything to make me think he could really change the lakers' situation for the better in a short time.
abeer3

 
Posts: 10407
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm

Re: George Karl fired!

Postby FabFourLakers on Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:42 pm

trodgers wrote:So you don't think that there are good champions (like the Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics) and bad champions (like Dallas) - and that this matters when we see when a team is eliminated?

A 1 seed vs. an 8 seed isn't always that bad a thing - and you know that. As our season was coming to a close, we WANTED to be 8 depending upon what happened, as that would let us face the 1 seed. And we thought we had a good chance against the 1 seed.

So simply throwing out the numbers you did without context doesn't do much. That's why I included the teams he was eliminated by and what happened to those teams.

Tell me where you stand so we can be clear:

Q1: At the NBA Level...
1. Karl is a good or better coach.
2. Karl is an average coach.
3. Karl is a bad or worse coach.

Q2: Compared to MDA...
1. Karl is a better option
2. Karl is just as good
3. Karl is worse

I choose option 1 and option 1.



I'm at 2 and 2 with Karl, slightly leaning towards 1 on the second question but that speaks more to how BAD dantoni really is....
User avatar
FabFourLakers

 
Posts: 11764
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:47 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

Previous

Return to NBA Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.