Ibaka agrees to 4 years $48 mil extension

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:

Thunder GM Sam Presti talks about the Ibaka extension and what that means for James Harden...
"We're going to continue our conversations with James. We very much value him," Presti said. "We want him to be a part of our organization moving forward. We're excited that he's a member of the Thunder and we're hopeful that he'll be with us for years moving forward."

"There's still a commitment for us to try to find a way to make it work for everybody, but we know there's going to be some difficult decisions that have to be made," Presti said. "We're looking forward to trying to figure those things out, and having Serge in place is certainly a benefit for our organization moving forward knowing that we have another core player that will be with us for the foreseeable future."

If he was smart he'd trade Westbrook for a real front court player that can play both ends like Hibbert and keep Harden. Signing Ibaka long term while your main rival has the strongest front court in the NBA doesn't make much sense to me..... The way you attack strength is through strength and Ibaka and Perkins combined won't score more than 15 a game.... that puts no pressure whatsoever on Howard and Pau and allows them to concentrate on defending Durant, Westbrook and Harden.

Why would OKC trade one of the best players in the league in Westbrook for an average player like Hibbert? The only big that they should trade Westbrook for is our newly acquired big Dwight Howard and the guy we just traded Andrew Bynum.

Westbrook isn't one of the best players in the NBA..... He's the third best player on his team and the modern day Steve Francis or Marbury.... and has the mental capacity of a 4th grader when the pressure is on.... I'd trade him in a heart beat to someone that believed he's one of the best players in the league..... Did you not watch how they lost the last two years in the playoffs?.... "Best Players in the league" don't crumble like he does.....

Hibbert would give them a player in the front court that can put pressure offensively on big men while playing better overall defense than Perkins or Ibaka..... neither Perkins or Ibaka can do that.... They could amnesty Perkins and easily re-sign Harden..... and be a more balanced team in the process.

IMO.... they will regret this contract to Ibaka if they have to lose Harden in the process. It seems they are making a choice between the two..... and I would choose Harden 10 times out of 10 over Ibaka...... and 9 times out of 10 over Westbrook...

LMAO a guy who drops 43 in the NBA finals is a modern day Steve Francis? Westbrook is wayyy better than Steve, hes only 23 years old and is actually a good defender vs PGs and SGs

If it weren't for Westbrook, OKC would've been swept in that 2010 Thunder/LAL series, he was their best player and he pushed that series to 6 games

I agree with Rock, but I also agree with Roos about keeping Harden over Westbrook, mainly because of how he fits with Durant. There's NO WAY Durant should be playing with a PG that often takes more shots than he does. No way.
Durant needs a steady, playmaking PG that doesn't make mistakes and finds him in his spots. Someone like Rondo would really make OKC great. If they could trade Westbrook for Rondo they'd be golden IMO. You think Durant looks unstoppable now? Give him a passer like Rondo who's actually looking to make plays for others all the time, he'll have a historic season.

Regarding the whole frontcourt issue, I agree that they need a post threat, and it doesn't seem like Ibaka is gonna be that guy, unless he really starts working on that part of his game.
Maybe Durant can learn to be that guy, he's definitely got the skill and length for it.. Bird wasn't that strong yet he was an awesome post player. Durant's sure got the shooting touch, and he's long and tall, he should be able to shoot over people at will. Maybe Durant can play the 4 more often..
Miami doesn't really have a "post threat" in any of their bigs.. Bosh has been much more of a face-up, catch-and-shoot player since he's been there. IMO it's LeBron finally acting on his vows to post up more and them running an offense through post ups (that most of the time don't end in post shots btw) what's made the difference.

So, if I'm OKC I try to amnesty Perkins, keep Harden, trade Westbrook for someone like Rondo (or maybe Chris Paul if things don't work out with the Clippers and he threatens to walk?), develop Ibaka's and Durant's post game, sign a backup big (like Martin or someone like that), give Collison more minutes and develop the rookies (PJ3 could be a post player as well). That would work out great for them IMO.
Rondo/Maynor
Harden/Thabo/Cook
Durant/Thabo/
Ibaka/Durant/PJ3
Collison/Ibaka/FA (Martin?)
Not very deep (I'm probably missing some guys), but they are all extremely young so minutes wouldn't be too much of a problem.

i would trade both harden and westbrook for a elite big, like Howard. That won't happen but maybe Davis in 4 years is elite, i am impressed by him after watching a few minutes in the olympics.

Either way, Lakers have won 5 titles in the past 10 years without an elite PG.

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Why would OKC trade one of the best players in the league in Westbrook for an average player like Hibbert?

Average? There's a strong argument to be made that he's the 3rd best at his position.

Finwë wrote:I agree with Rock, but I also agree with Roos about keeping Harden over Westbrook, mainly because of how he fits with Durant. There's NO WAY Durant should be playing with a PG that often takes more shots than he does. No way.

Yep, I look at it more as fit instead of talent. Durant is your franchise player, your job is to build a team around him, not have someone fighting him for the title of franchise player, even though he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell at being that for OKC and everyone knows that...but him.

JSM wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Why would OKC trade one of the best players in the league in Westbrook for an average player like Hibbert?

Average? There's a strong argument to be made that he's the 3rd best at his position.

Finwë wrote:I agree with Rock, but I also agree with Roos about keeping Harden over Westbrook, mainly because of how he fits with Durant. There's NO WAY Durant should be playing with a PG that often takes more shots than he does. No way.

Yep, I look at it more as fit instead of talent. Durant is your franchise player, your job is to build a team around him, not have someone fighting him for the title of franchise player, even though he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell at being that for OKC and everyone knows that...but him.

The center position sucks nowadays. Weakest it's ever been. The only above average players are Howard and Bynum.

Also to Roos @ saying Westbrook is 3rd best on the team. Hard to take you seriously after that. He was terrific in the regular season and playoffs with averages of 23 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds. As great as Durant was Westbrook was just as good in the playoffs/Finals. He's not a pure point guard, but so what how many are there nowadays? We have one of the few in Steve Nash. Harden unlike Westbrook was MIA in the postseason and especially the Finals. As far as guards go the only ones who were better last season was Kobe, CP3, and that's probably it. Westbrook does make some mistakes, but so what? Everyone does. No one is perfect.

OKC needs to trade Harden for a star PG and move Russell to the 2. He'd be the second best 2 guard in the league behind only Kobe.

JSM wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:Why would OKC trade one of the best players in the league in Westbrook for an average player like Hibbert?

Average? There's a strong argument to be made that he's the 3rd best at his position.

He's the only center other than Bynum and Howard that is a legit two way threat.... Lopez may score more but he stinks at just about everything else..... Chandler may be a better defender (in the media's eyes anyway) but he's just about useless on the offensive end.... Hibbert is a very good two way player.

Finwë wrote:I agree with Rock, but I also agree with Roos about keeping Harden over Westbrook, mainly because of how he fits with Durant. There's NO WAY Durant should be playing with a PG that often takes more shots than he does. No way.

JSM wrote:Yep, I look at it more as fit instead of talent. Durant is your franchise player, your job is to build a team around him, not have someone fighting him for the title of franchise player, even though he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell at being that for OKC and everyone knows that...but him.

I don't mind OKC paying that much for Ibaka because it will most likely weaken them in the long run... or put them in cap hell.... both of which are good for the Lakers long term..... I just don't think their floor balance is good..... and putting the ball in Westbrook's hands more than Durant's or Harden's isn't in their best long term interests..... While they may have some defense in the front court they have no offense whatsoever and have to rely on either penetration, fast breaks or jump shots..... all of which don't come that easy in the playoffs....

The issue with OKC is not offense, its defense. If you score 98 points per game in the NBA finals you should be fine but no they gave up 102 points per game in that FInals, gave up over 100 points in 4 out of the 5 games. They got out rebounded in all 4 games they lost. The OKC players didnt rebound well at all including Durant himself, he spent so much time at PF so that he could have the spacing to go to work on offense but on the other end he got outrebounded. You cant spend that much time at PF like he did and average only 6 rebounds a game, heck even Westbrook ourtrebounded him at 6.5 while playing the Guard position. True OKC has some offense issues but Defense is a much much bigger problem

^^Their "defensive" issues are a product of their offensive style..... They are an opportunistic fast breaking team that takes a lot of jumpers..... that leads to a more up-tempo game and thus more possessions for your opponent. In the half court, their defense is decent. Ibaka and Perkins are a little overrated by most IMO but that is the one they do at NBA level anyway.....

If they slowed the ball down and had a scoring threat inside they would improve on both ends IMHO.....

Rooscooter wrote:^^Their "defensive" issues are a product of their offensive style..... They are an opportunistic fast breaking team that takes a lot of jumpers..... that leads to a more up-tempo game and thus more possessions for your opponent. In the half court, their defense is decent. Ibaka and Perkins are a little overrated by most IMO but that is the one they do at NBA level anyway.....

If they slowed the ball down and had a scoring threat inside they would improve on both ends IMHO.....

Durant is that inside scoring threat. He'll get better at it. Hes basically a PF whos maturing and growing so hes playing SF along the way. Very similar to Dirk but more mobile

All these guys are in their early 20s they're only gonna get better as they go to more battles together.

Dallas is basically a jumpshooting team but Dirk provided just enough in the paint to open up the 3 point shooting which is really their forte. Thats how they beat the Heat in 2011

Rooscooter wrote:Westbrook isn't one of the best players in the NBA.....

I agree with you 99% of the time. This is the 1% I don't. Westbrook is an exceptional talent and produces on the court. yes, he shoots too much. yes, he makes bad decisions. But he has a 5th gear that few have and as excited as I am to have Nash on our team, I'd trade him for Westbrook in a heartbeat. Westbrook can play. He'll be a perennial all star for years to come.

Westbrook's drawbacks result primarily from the fact that he's playing out of position at the 1 when he should be starting at the 2. Westbrook is a not a great decision maker and lacks the instincts to find his teammates for easy looks outside of drive and kicks. Put him with a great ball handler who can control the tempo however and he'll flourish. The reason I'd consider trading him if I were Presti has nothing to do with his talent, it has to do with the fact that if you're OKC, you'll be paying an enormous chunk of change to two primarily off-ball players without anyone to really set them up. Harden is a solid talent, but dude is suspect at this point given the way he choked in the Finals, and I have to wonder if his poor showing against Miami last season is the reason why the Thunder decided to extend Ibaka when last year, everyone was saying Serge was the odd man out and that Harden should be getting a max deal.

In any case, Westbrook may be a knucklehead, but he's an incredibly talented knucklehead. "Choked in the Finals"? HA! His decision making isn't always the greatest, but he gets hungry in ways that many folks wish Durant would.

Too much money for a one-dimensional bigman who is a mediocre defender at best...

John3:16 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Westbrook isn't one of the best players in the NBA.....

I agree with you 99% of the time. This is the 1% I don't. Westbrook is an exceptional talent and produces on the court. yes, he shoots too much. yes, he makes bad decisions. But he has a 5th gear that few have and as excited as I am to have Nash on our team, I'd trade him for Westbrook in a heartbeat. Westbrook can play. He'll be a perennial all star for years to come.

I don't disagree with what you said about his ability but Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury had those talents and skills as well. Neither of them ever put together a successful career in terms of championships, clutch play or leadership..... which is what I was getting at with Westbrook. He's like Melo in a lot of respects.... great talent.... great scorer but the IT factor is missing.....

Rooscooter wrote:

John3:16 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Westbrook isn't one of the best players in the NBA.....

I agree with you 99% of the time. This is the 1% I don't. Westbrook is an exceptional talent and produces on the court. yes, he shoots too much. yes, he makes bad decisions. But he has a 5th gear that few have and as excited as I am to have Nash on our team, I'd trade him for Westbrook in a heartbeat. Westbrook can play. He'll be a perennial all star for years to come.

I don't disagree with what you said about his ability but Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury had those talents and skills as well. Neither of them ever put together a successful career in terms of championships, clutch play or leadership..... which is what I was getting at with Westbrook. He's like Melo in a lot of respects.... great talent.... great scorer but the IT factor is missing.....

Disagree 150%. Westbrook is wayyyyy better than Marbury or Francis could have ever DREAMED of being. Westbrook is a top 10 player, and he showed it THROUGHOUT the playoffs last year. He was DOMINANT in game 4 and nobody else stepped up. He made one mistake, but at least the dude is hungry. He reminds me A LOT of young Kobe. I guarantee he will be among the top 5 players either next year or year after. He strikes FEAR into the opponent with the way he operates on offense. Sometimes, i feel like there's nothing u can do to stop him.

Roos, u know that i always agree with u, but you couldn't be more wrong in this scenario. Westbrook is a BAD MOTHEREFFER. If OKC gave him up for anybody, i'd be the happiest person because that would definitely make their team weaker. With that being said, OKC aint trading him. They know how good he is, and Durant also knows how good he is. He is, on some nights, their best player, much like Kobe was when Lakers had Shaq.

lakerswiz wrote:The underrating of Russell Westbrook is insane.

He may not be as good as some think he is, but trading him for Hibbert? 3rd best player on his team?

He's better than Harden. And he's worth 3 Hibbert's.

How did I underrate Westbrook..... I compared him to Marbury and if he finishes his career with Marbury's numbers it will be a pretty darn good career IMHO..... Actually Marbury was a superior player to this point in his career.... he put up at least 8 assists a game 10 times.... and at least 20ppg 8 times.... Westbrook isn't nearly the total offensive weapon Marbury was.....

Westbrook and Durant's games don't mesh one bit..... it's fairly obvious when you watch them in the half court.... which is what the playoffs mostly are. Harden and Durant have a ton more "chemistry" than Westbrook and Durant do. For that team..... which is Durant's team.... I'd trade Westbrook for a top flight front court player and since Bynum and Howard are in new locations Hibbert is the next best 2 way center. If they could get a real point guard in the trade they would be balanced and able to play both in the open court and the half court..... As it is right now..... they have a very ball dominant point guard playing out of position and a wing player that is unguardable getting 2/3 the touches he should....

The Laker reconnaisance needs to get working. Somebody around here has to have an 'in' to one of Harden's people, posse, grandma, something. Tell him, rebuff all extension talk. Take the QO next year, don't shop around as RFA. Then he'll be UFA in summer '14, right when LA has 25mm in cap room. OKC won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Exactly like when Ben Gordon walked fro Chitown. Ink Harden to a starting deal about 15mm. Leaving about 10 for a forward or pg. Or both.
Dwight / Harden the next Laker dynamic duo.

Phil XI wrote:The Laker reconnaisance needs to get working. Somebody around here has to have an 'in' to one of Harden's people, posse, grandma, something. Tell him, rebuff all extension talk. Take the QO next year, don't shop around as RFA. Then he'll be UFA in summer '14, right when LA has 25mm in cap room. OKC won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Exactly like when Ben Gordon walked fro Chitown. Ink Harden to a starting deal about 15mm. Leaving about 10 for a forward or pg. Or both.
Dwight / Harden the next Laker dynamic duo.

I like this.....

Phil XI wrote:The Laker reconnaisance needs to get working. Somebody around here has to have an 'in' to one of Harden's people, posse, grandma, something. Tell him, rebuff all extension talk. Take the QO next year, don't shop around as RFA. Then he'll be UFA in summer '14, right when LA has 25mm in cap room. OKC won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Exactly like when Ben Gordon walked fro Chitown. Ink Harden to a starting deal about 15mm. Leaving about 10 for a forward or pg. Or both.
Dwight / Harden the next Laker dynamic duo.

Im not too into the idea of Harden being the 2nd guy here to be honest. I think he's talented, but he's not a franchise guy. People argue that Howard isn't because he can't carry your team late, well did anyone watch Harden in the Finals? The guy wasn't very good.

I'd rather the Lakers go after someone like Iguodala or Granger who will both expire that season. Or maybe John Wall. I'd trust Wall before I'd trust Harden.

Harden is talented, but many of his minutes are against the other teams bench. Max contract or anything close to it? No thanks.

therealdeal wrote:Im not too into the idea of Harden being the 2nd guy here to be honest. I think he's talented, but he's not a franchise guy. People argue that Howard isn't because he can't carry your team late, well did anyone watch Harden in the Finals? The guy wasn't very good.

I'd rather the Lakers go after someone like Iguodala or Granger who will both expire that season. Or maybe John Wall. I'd trust Wall before I'd trust Harden.

I'd have to disagree with much of this:

Harden in the Finals? Wow, condemning a 22 yr old in his first finals for crumbling against Lebron and Wade, who've been there 3x each and are experienced vets. Under this rationale, you wrote off a young Kobe Bryant for falling flat on his face hoisting up airball after airball against the veteran Jazz.

Iguodala... he'll be 30 in summer '14. Granger... 31. No thanks. Dwight should be the 'senior' member of the post-Kobe reload, in my opinion, at 28. Harden will be a UFA at 24 under this scenario.

Wall? Nice idea but he has already said he wants to be the WIZ's "savior" and he also would only be RFA, which I fully expect would be matched by Washington. He's from the region (NC) and I suspect he'd probably stick around, as opposed to Harden, a So Cal native who'd potentially move to a number of pacific div teams.

I also disagree with others so far. Harden will in my opinion be spectacular and worthy of max-ish bank as a top wing scorer-defender on a team in the next few years. He's not going to play the Dumars role for his career. His offensive game is way too developed at 22 for a career 3rd option / 6th man type role. I'd gladly take him as a #2 with a dominant low post presence, for his prime 25-30 age seasons.

Dang you tore me up good.

I disagree about Iguodala and Granger (I prefer Iguodala). They'll be 30 and 31 respectively, sure, but so what? Dwight at 28 will be in his prime, these guys are terrific supporters for him and they won't be getting max money from anyone. We can sign one of them and leave enough money to also pick up another piece as well.

I don't really compare Harden to Kobe. Sorry. Kobe is Kobe for a reason, he's difficult to compare to. I think Harden is a damn good player, I really do. I think he's up there already in the top SGs in the league, but that doesn't make him Kobe. Maybe I'm just set in my ways, but I want proof first. I wasn't thrilled about Kobe until he built this amazing career and supported the team through the Finals. At Harden's age, Kobe was winning a ring (2000). Just saying...

I'm not totally against your idea, I think Harden/Dwight in 2 years would be a damn good start. But do you think they'd be enough?

^^No.... we'd still need a leader at the point to field a balanced team IMO.... Neither Harden or Howard are mentally tough enough to lead IMHO.... They are great pieces no doubt....

Well, it looks like OKC invested in Ibaka so that puts them in a bind concerning their payroll and Harden. I think he ends up leaving and going to a bigger market.

I don't think OKC overpaid for Ibaka, the dude is only 22 and he's already a pretty good defender.