James Harden: $80m Extension With Rockets

dont get how people saying this was a win for both teams

the rockets clearly won by acquiring harden and OKC lost big time, and its gonna have a major effect on their team this year. yes martin is a good player but you have to think of it in terms of chemistry. losing harden is going to be a huge blow to the chemistry they had going with durant, westbrook, and harden as the core. those guys were not only the team but just take into consideration the chemistry they had off the court.

what made the thunder so good is that they had a starter in harden coming off the bench against the second units of NBA teams where he would dominate and play so good that the starters could rest all they needed. they dont have that spark off the bench anymore so it'll be interesting to see how it effects them, and i doubt it'll be positively. lamb is going to be a good player and martin has long established himself as one but they wont be able to replace harden and that's going to be a huge blow

The Lakers didn't have an answer for Harden and to be honest we wouldn't have this year. Martin can score, but he does NOTHING else like Harden. Martin is just a bench player now that could go off on us for sure, but is way easier to guard and he can't guard Kobe.

Harden is young and athletic and really gives Kobe problems. Martin? Kobe puts up 31/7/6 career on him with 48% shooting.

They have to either put Sefolosha in and get no offense, or put Martin in and get no defense. Harden gave them both on top of playmaking. Martin doesn't scare me because he's an injury prone, scorer off the bench. We can defend that.

Let's no forget that OKC now has Thabeet as their backup C now with no Aldrich. If Perkins gets in foul trouble, which most teams do vs. D12, D12 is going to feast on that.

What's Westbrook going to look like vs. us when he has to play both ends of the floor now? Or Durant with a revamped Ron?

They can't play Lamb and Martin both at SG, so if they move Martin to SF that just benefits us more.

Obviously Martin will still contribute, but he wont fill Harden's shoes. For OKC this will all depend on how the youngsters they got develop, which ofcourse will take time.

Even if it turns out that everyone they got in the trade winds up not contributing anything significant, OKC is still a tough team to beat. Houston will have Harden, Lin and whoever Morey gives a big contract to next. Along with the young talent they have, its hard to find a downside to this trade for Houston, even if you dont think Harden is worth the max (unless they're a championship-or-bust organization like LA).

Short term winners: Houston easily, along with the "win now" teams in the West since OKC will be a bit weaker IMO. Long term Houston wins as well, and even though Im not so sure OKC will ever be as good as if they had been able to keep Harden, but if their youngsters develop over time then they can be close enough to not regret this trade.

OKC is still a very difficult team to beat, but I don't believe they'll be as good as they were with Harden. Perhaps they can flip Martin's expiring contract at the trade deadline for a better big, but as of now I like our chances against them much more.

Two years in a row the sixth man of the year got dealt.

Anyway, K-Mart might replace Harden's scoring but I saw Harden as a more gritty / athletic player who does other things (rebound, defense, etc.) that gave the Lakers difficulties especially in the playoffs. I've always viewed Martin as very one dimensional (all scoring, nothing else).

Harden will be a beast in Houston.

I think it was a well thought out trade and that is why I have to applaud Presti. OKC did drop a few notches in the now and there is no doubt about it, but they're still going to be able to compete this season. If Kmart doesn't work out, they have KMart lite waiting in the wings with Lamb.

What's interesting is that Harden gets max money and I'm sure Morey will throw it at him. But you have to realize that Harden's success came against 2nd tier talent cause he came off the bench and played against that type of competition. The times that Harden was put into the starting lineup, he faced better competition but that same competition had to also worry about guarding Durant and Westbrook. Harden used that to his advantage...but in Houston its a whole new ball game. He's going to be THE guy and that mans he's going to have the best wing defender on him from the opposing team. He's also not going to have the likes of Durant and Westbrook making him look good.

He's going to get paid but I think he's also going to get exposed. IMHO, no way is he a max player. He's got skills, but he's not even in the same financial echelon as a Dwight Howard or a Lebron James or a Kevin Durant.

You know who started this type of frivolous spending is Eric Gordon. The contract he got set the precedence and you know Morey will go to town with it.

strikemode14 wrote:Honestly I like it from the thunder perspective. They get martin who IMHO can give you the majority of harden's production off the bench. He isn't as good harden but for the fact he is far cheaper then harden and can give you some very good production off the bench I really don't see the thunder losing that much especially since harden CHOCKED in the finals.

Choking is bad enough already, but when you CHOCK...that is UNACCEPTABLE!

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I wasnt surprised!

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I see him breaking out... Someone is going to overpay him to be a starter plain and simple. OKC can't afford to keep all four of those guys. Harden and Westprick are cocky enough to think they should be focal points for their teams... Yup I can see him leaving OKC.

Good call.

lakerswiz wrote:IMO the Thunder made away like Bandits and Harden won't amount to anywhere near the amount of hype people are giving him.

I can see this if a few things fall in line. The picks are a very valuable commodity and Lamb has potential to be very good.

They get Maynard back, have Martin in the second unit and have Lamb for back-up SF/SG minutes as needed.

They get a chance to add young talent on the cheap (rookie contracts) compared to a max deal for Harden.

The big mistake they made was in signing Ibaka to a big contract... I don't see him ever playing as a level any higher than the one he's at and that's a lot to pay for a player that really only does one thing well..... and that one thing is overrated.....

Defensively they may be a little worse but that's not their style anyway..... they win with speed and athleticism. Martin is not the penetrator that Harden is but he's just as potent scoring the ball and just about automatic from the line. The difference in those two alone isn't as big as some are making it other than age..... production will be similar. Health is the only big issue.

I do disagree on Harden.... I think he will be a 20 point a game guy for the next several years in a starting role.

Ginobili: One of the best SGs during his time took less money...and never made more than $8.5 million during the Spurs run. He never cracked the $12 million mark until last season.

Anyway, I personally don't watch college ball so I can't comment on the rookies, but Kevin Martin will not have anywhere near the impact that Harden does. Seriously, that's a ridiculous statement. Because of this trade, Westbrook is now the primary, secondary, and tertiary ball handler since nobody else can do that. Actually, they got Maynor back so he can help a little, but the loss of Harden will be huge.

Nobody knows how Harden will handle being the first option so people, but what we do know is that Harden is an incredible 3rd option. The reason why OKC does not lost a step on offense (at all) when Durant sits is because Harden comes in. I read somewhere that Houston has enough money to sign a max contract next season so Houston's plan isn't to run with Harden as the first option.

John3:16 wrote:

Doc Brown wrote:OKC just got worse IMO.

No doubt. OKC offered a fair contract. Harden screwed up, IMO.

Harden's getting an extra year & $22 million on his extension from Houston. Not sure how anyone can fault him here.

lakerswiz wrote:?

Does no one know about Kevin Martin? The dude is always at the top of the NBA's free throw list and averages 20+ points a game. They both handle the ball adequately, Harden isn't a saint in that regard nor is Martin. Both can get to the basket with ease, Martin maybe even a little easier. There's a reason he gets to the line so much.

The reason why Martin used to get to the line so much was because he did the "rip through" foul. After the rule change, his FTA took a nosedive. Kevin Martin is also definitely not a good ball handler, and he's nowhere near Harden in that regard.

I can only assume (since I don't watch college ball) that the centerpiece of this trade is not Kevin Martin, but the rookies/future prospects.

I think Harden is better in more or less every aspect of the game, and when you add in his age, durability and the gap between the two defensively, its an easy pick for me. This isn't to say that Martin isn't a good player though. Realdeal did a pretty nice write up comparing the two earlier as well, not sure if it was in this thread but Im too lazy to look it up to quote it lol.

I think Harden will be fine in Houston, and as a young developing team (thats probably still "waiting" to get one more max player), the immediate pressure on him wont be as great as people think.

Also, pretty sure Ive maxed out the amount of positive things I can say about Harden for the rest of the year. He annoys me so much.

OKC got a LOT in return. Good deal for both teams. 2 first round picks, a solid rookie, and a fat expiring contract of a solid scoring player? I think people will be surprised just how well this works for OKC, they really barely got worse if they did get worse at all.

This move probably cost them a very realistic title shot, but you know, there are never any guarantees.

Financially, this is the best move they could make. They're relevant now, and they'll remain relevant for a long time with extra first round picks which they are GOOD at (yes, they're protected, but Toronto isn't winning any time soon, and Dallas might be on the downhill with Dirk out).

Harden can't be replaced, but they can ask Jeremy Lamb to be their Kawhi Leonard, and Martin will get plenty of open looks with their offense.

The sixth man of the year curse? That's two years in a row now that the winner gets traded

This is a GREAT deal for the Thunder...for the FUTURE. Right now though? They may have given their title chances away on this deal. Yes, they're still contenders and probably even still the best team in the West HOWEVER, the window for the Lakers to take them out just got bigger. Harden not only gave us trouble on offense, but he defended VERY well on Kobe. His ability to hit clutch shots and take over a game is very underrated, and the Thunder will miss that wen they watch Westbrook goes iso at the end of games. Kevin Martin is a nice player but he's not anywhere NEAR as good as Harden in EVERY aspect of the game. Jeremy Lamb will be nice in the future but he's not going to make an impact this season or get enough PT to do so. That first round pick that they got from Toronto is HUGEEEEEE....if they could get a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft, that will set them up VERY nicely for the future. However, what does this tell Durant and Westbrook? These guys got to the FINALS last year...they're not looking at the future..they're looking at RIGHT NOW. Although they're young, this WILL have a psychological effect on them and they don't even know it yet. Yea sure, they could end up being better off in the future much like the Celtics were by getting somebody like Jeff Green for PERKINS...but the NOW, the psychological effect, the chemistry that they had with Harden...that is something that will carry over into the season and worst part is, it happened after training camp and preseason.


Harden is going to be a star in this league and I've been saying it for a while. Don't let the FINALS numbers blind you....it was his first finals, he will learn from it and will ultimately be a better player. I predict 23ppg, 6 rpg and 5 apg from Harden, and he'll be the 3rd best SG behind Wade and Kobe this year.

thkthebest wrote:I read somewhere that Houston has enough money to sign a max contract next season so Houston's plan isn't to run with Harden as the first option.

I think they'll go all out with an offer for Josh Smith. He'd fit well with that group and would still allow Harden to be the guy. If they can't get him, then maybe their backup options will be Millsap or Jefferson to pair next to Asik.

Have to disagree with the 'props to Presti' crew. He should've waited and dealt later in year or next summer, would've received at least the same offer but probably more.
- Martin: Inefficient scorer who won't get nearly the shots / opportunities he got as 'the man' in both Hou and Sacto, is a poor defender and ball handler. Harden is basically the opposite. Gets nearly half his shots at/to the rim, is a hard nosed defender and was the ball handler when Westy not in. Martin won't make up for anything Harden brought.
- Lamb: OKC better hope he develops into Harden/near Harden or this deal is bust. This was Presti's big gamble #1.
- Tor pick: Big gamble #2. They hope it'll be top 5 but even if it is they need to land a stud. Luckily, they did well with Westy, Ibaka and Harden (no credit for Durant who was Portland's mistake).

Two gambles and a downgrade. Presti should've waited for more. As long as they had RFA rights, they had the upper hand.

The Lakers, btw, say THANKS.

^ Wade was the one who took even less than the other two.

Center Court wrote:As others have said, great trade for the Thunder. Harden is not a max player. He got a very strong offer but turned it down because he wanted to eb greedy. He feels entitled because at such a young age he has had such a strong career, but LeBron took less than the max to team up with Wade/Bosh so he should have been willing to do the same to stay with KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, etc.

OKC reas the situation and responded accordingly. They got a sure thing lotto pick from Toronto in a very very deeo draft, a pick from Dallas which should be in the low 20's, a very good scorer in Martin who is also expiring, and Lamb who has some nice potential and would be a good fit next to Westbrook going forward.

Props to Presti.

I think it'll hurt them a bit this year but it sets them up great for the future

lol LeBron has endorsements deal with Nike, McDonald, Coca-Cola, State Farm, Upper Deck and more. so of course no problem taking less money to play with Wade and Bosh.

Phil XI wrote:^ Wade was the one who took even less than the other two.

Yes you are right. Bosh should not get more money than Wade.

wow, out of no where and it benefits us greatly.

take it

I think it's a decent trade both parties.

Rockets needed to do something realistic after Morey was done playing NBA2K Association Mode trying to fetch Dwight. I think Lin very limited in the style he can play, and Harden compliments him in that regard.

OKC got a bit worse. Kev-Mart isn't a 20ppg scorer anymore, but still a threat as a shooter. I'm surprised they're putting this much faith Maynor, whose been out for a year.

The wild card is Jeremy Lamb. Coming out of UConn his main knock was that he lacked motivation. On a team where Durant and Westbrook obviously shoulder the load, Lamb might be in a spot to excel. He's athletic and can score the ball. If OKC gets production out of both Lamb and Martin, Presti will look like a genius.