James Harden: $80m Extension With Rockets

Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Vasashi17 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:57 am

I think it was a well thought out trade and that is why I have to applaud Presti. OKC did drop a few notches in the now and there is no doubt about it, but they're still going to be able to compete this season. If Kmart doesn't work out, they have KMart lite waiting in the wings with Lamb.

What's interesting is that Harden gets max money and I'm sure Morey will throw it at him. But you have to realize that Harden's success came against 2nd tier talent cause he came off the bench and played against that type of competition. The times that Harden was put into the starting lineup, he faced better competition but that same competition had to also worry about guarding Durant and Westbrook. Harden used that to his advantage...but in Houston its a whole new ball game. He's going to be THE guy and that mans he's going to have the best wing defender on him from the opposing team. He's also not going to have the likes of Durant and Westbrook making him look good.

He's going to get paid but I think he's also going to get exposed. IMHO, no way is he a max player. He's got skills, but he's not even in the same financial echelon as a Dwight Howard or a Lebron James or a Kevin Durant.

You know who started this type of frivolous spending is Eric Gordon. The contract he got set the precedence and you know Morey will go to town with it.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:05 pm

strikemode14 wrote:Honestly I like it from the thunder perspective. They get martin who IMHO can give you the majority of harden's production off the bench. He isn't as good harden but for the fact he is far cheaper then harden and can give you some very good production off the bench I really don't see the thunder losing that much especially since harden CHOCKED in the finals.


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Re: James Harden Open To Signing With Suns

Postby John3:16 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:38 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I wasnt surprised!

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I see him breaking out... Someone is going to overpay him to be a starter plain and simple. OKC can't afford to keep all four of those guys. Harden and Westprick are cocky enough to think they should be focal points for their teams... Yup I can see him leaving OKC.


Good call.

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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:47 pm

lakerswiz wrote:IMO the Thunder made away like Bandits and Harden won't amount to anywhere near the amount of hype people are giving him.


I can see this if a few things fall in line. The picks are a very valuable commodity and Lamb has potential to be very good.

They get Maynard back, have Martin in the second unit and have Lamb for back-up SF/SG minutes as needed.

They get a chance to add young talent on the cheap (rookie contracts) compared to a max deal for Harden.

The big mistake they made was in signing Ibaka to a big contract... I don't see him ever playing as a level any higher than the one he's at and that's a lot to pay for a player that really only does one thing well..... and that one thing is overrated.....

Defensively they may be a little worse but that's not their style anyway..... they win with speed and athleticism. Martin is not the penetrator that Harden is but he's just as potent scoring the ball and just about automatic from the line. The difference in those two alone isn't as big as some are making it other than age..... production will be similar. Health is the only big issue.

I do disagree on Harden.... I think he will be a 20 point a game guy for the next several years in a starting role.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby thkthebest on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:09 pm

Ginobili: One of the best SGs during his time took less money...and never made more than $8.5 million during the Spurs run. He never cracked the $12 million mark until last season.

Anyway, I personally don't watch college ball so I can't comment on the rookies, but Kevin Martin will not have anywhere near the impact that Harden does. Seriously, that's a ridiculous statement. Because of this trade, Westbrook is now the primary, secondary, and tertiary ball handler since nobody else can do that. Actually, they got Maynor back so he can help a little, but the loss of Harden will be huge.

Nobody knows how Harden will handle being the first option so people, but what we do know is that Harden is an incredible 3rd option. The reason why OKC does not lost a step on offense (at all) when Durant sits is because Harden comes in. I read somewhere that Houston has enough money to sign a max contract next season so Houston's plan isn't to run with Harden as the first option.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:30 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:OKC just got worse IMO.


No doubt. OKC offered a fair contract. Harden screwed up, IMO.


Harden's getting an extra year & $22 million on his extension from Houston. Not sure how anyone can fault him here.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby thkthebest on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:35 pm

lakerswiz wrote:?

Does no one know about Kevin Martin? The dude is always at the top of the NBA's free throw list and averages 20+ points a game. They both handle the ball adequately, Harden isn't a saint in that regard nor is Martin. Both can get to the basket with ease, Martin maybe even a little easier. There's a reason he gets to the line so much.

The reason why Martin used to get to the line so much was because he did the "rip through" foul. After the rule change, his FTA took a nosedive. Kevin Martin is also definitely not a good ball handler, and he's nowhere near Harden in that regard.

I can only assume (since I don't watch college ball) that the centerpiece of this trade is not Kevin Martin, but the rookies/future prospects.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Tobias Funke on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:47 pm

I think Harden is better in more or less every aspect of the game, and when you add in his age, durability and the gap between the two defensively, its an easy pick for me. This isn't to say that Martin isn't a good player though. Realdeal did a pretty nice write up comparing the two earlier as well, not sure if it was in this thread but Im too lazy to look it up to quote it lol.

I think Harden will be fine in Houston, and as a young developing team (thats probably still "waiting" to get one more max player), the immediate pressure on him wont be as great as people think.

Also, pretty sure Ive maxed out the amount of positive things I can say about Harden for the rest of the year. He annoys me so much.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:18 pm

OKC got a LOT in return. Good deal for both teams. 2 first round picks, a solid rookie, and a fat expiring contract of a solid scoring player? I think people will be surprised just how well this works for OKC, they really barely got worse if they did get worse at all.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby dj vitus on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:52 pm

This move probably cost them a very realistic title shot, but you know, there are never any guarantees.

Financially, this is the best move they could make. They're relevant now, and they'll remain relevant for a long time with extra first round picks which they are GOOD at (yes, they're protected, but Toronto isn't winning any time soon, and Dallas might be on the downhill with Dirk out).

Harden can't be replaced, but they can ask Jeremy Lamb to be their Kawhi Leonard, and Martin will get plenty of open looks with their offense.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:24 pm

The sixth man of the year curse? That's two years in a row now that the winner gets traded :man9:
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:01 pm

This is a GREAT deal for the Thunder...for the FUTURE. Right now though? They may have given their title chances away on this deal. Yes, they're still contenders and probably even still the best team in the West HOWEVER, the window for the Lakers to take them out just got bigger. Harden not only gave us trouble on offense, but he defended VERY well on Kobe. His ability to hit clutch shots and take over a game is very underrated, and the Thunder will miss that wen they watch Westbrook goes iso at the end of games. Kevin Martin is a nice player but he's not anywhere NEAR as good as Harden in EVERY aspect of the game. Jeremy Lamb will be nice in the future but he's not going to make an impact this season or get enough PT to do so. That first round pick that they got from Toronto is HUGEEEEEE....if they could get a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft, that will set them up VERY nicely for the future. However, what does this tell Durant and Westbrook? These guys got to the FINALS last year...they're not looking at the future..they're looking at RIGHT NOW. Although they're young, this WILL have a psychological effect on them and they don't even know it yet. Yea sure, they could end up being better off in the future much like the Celtics were by getting somebody like Jeff Green for PERKINS...but the NOW, the psychological effect, the chemistry that they had with Harden...that is something that will carry over into the season and worst part is, it happened after training camp and preseason.


Harden is going to be a star in this league and I've been saying it for a while. Don't let the FINALS numbers blind you....it was his first finals, he will learn from it and will ultimately be a better player. I predict 23ppg, 6 rpg and 5 apg from Harden, and he'll be the 3rd best SG behind Wade and Kobe this year.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby JSM on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:24 pm

thkthebest wrote:I read somewhere that Houston has enough money to sign a max contract next season so Houston's plan isn't to run with Harden as the first option.

I think they'll go all out with an offer for Josh Smith. He'd fit well with that group and would still allow Harden to be the guy. If they can't get him, then maybe their backup options will be Millsap or Jefferson to pair next to Asik.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Center Court on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:53 pm

As others have said, great trade for the Thunder. Harden is not a max player. He got a very strong offer but turned it down because he wanted to eb greedy. He feels entitled because at such a young age he has had such a strong career, but LeBron took less than the max to team up with Wade/Bosh so he should have been willing to do the same to stay with KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, etc.

OKC reas the situation and responded accordingly. They got a sure thing lotto pick from Toronto in a very very deeo draft, a pick from Dallas which should be in the low 20's, a very good scorer in Martin who is also expiring, and Lamb who has some nice potential and would be a good fit next to Westbrook going forward.

Props to Presti.

I think it'll hurt them a bit this year but it sets them up great for the future
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Phil XI on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:30 am

Have to disagree with the 'props to Presti' crew. He should've waited and dealt later in year or next summer, would've received at least the same offer but probably more.
- Martin: Inefficient scorer who won't get nearly the shots / opportunities he got as 'the man' in both Hou and Sacto, is a poor defender and ball handler. Harden is basically the opposite. Gets nearly half his shots at/to the rim, is a hard nosed defender and was the ball handler when Westy not in. Martin won't make up for anything Harden brought.
- Lamb: OKC better hope he develops into Harden/near Harden or this deal is bust. This was Presti's big gamble #1.
- Tor pick: Big gamble #2. They hope it'll be top 5 but even if it is they need to land a stud. Luckily, they did well with Westy, Ibaka and Harden (no credit for Durant who was Portland's mistake).

Two gambles and a downgrade. Presti should've waited for more. As long as they had RFA rights, they had the upper hand.

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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Phil XI on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:08 am

^ Wade was the one who took even less than the other two.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby KB&AB on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:11 am

Center Court wrote:As others have said, great trade for the Thunder. Harden is not a max player. He got a very strong offer but turned it down because he wanted to eb greedy. He feels entitled because at such a young age he has had such a strong career, but LeBron took less than the max to team up with Wade/Bosh so he should have been willing to do the same to stay with KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, etc.

OKC reas the situation and responded accordingly. They got a sure thing lotto pick from Toronto in a very very deeo draft, a pick from Dallas which should be in the low 20's, a very good scorer in Martin who is also expiring, and Lamb who has some nice potential and would be a good fit next to Westbrook going forward.

Props to Presti.

I think it'll hurt them a bit this year but it sets them up great for the future


lol LeBron has endorsements deal with Nike, McDonald, Coca-Cola, State Farm, Upper Deck and more. so of course no problem taking less money to play with Wade and Bosh.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby KB&AB on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:22 am

Phil XI wrote:^ Wade was the one who took even less than the other two.


Yes you are right. Bosh should not get more money than Wade.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby KB24 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:35 am

wow, out of no where and it benefits us greatly.

take it :jam2:
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby purp n gold on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:54 am

I think it's a decent trade both parties.

Rockets needed to do something realistic after Morey was done playing NBA2K Association Mode trying to fetch Dwight. I think Lin very limited in the style he can play, and Harden compliments him in that regard.

OKC got a bit worse. Kev-Mart isn't a 20ppg scorer anymore, but still a threat as a shooter. I'm surprised they're putting this much faith Maynor, whose been out for a year.

The wild card is Jeremy Lamb. Coming out of UConn his main knock was that he lacked motivation. On a team where Durant and Westbrook obviously shoulder the load, Lamb might be in a spot to excel. He's athletic and can score the ball. If OKC gets production out of both Lamb and Martin, Presti will look like a genius.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Congo Cash on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:33 am

Kevin Martin is just another scorer and nothing more, plus he is injury-prone...
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby 24/23goats on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:35 am

harden is good... but not max money good. wtf was the point of the lockout if they still throw max money at players that are max players? so that they can spend less to pay the max? lol....max
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby davriver290 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:50 am

Didn't Harden struggle against us? Thought he averaged like 12 pts or something? I remember specifically Westbrook and Durant and even Ibaka burning us.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby therealdeal on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am

thkthebest wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:?

Does no one know about Kevin Martin? The dude is always at the top of the NBA's free throw list and averages 20+ points a game. They both handle the ball adequately, Harden isn't a saint in that regard nor is Martin. Both can get to the basket with ease, Martin maybe even a little easier. There's a reason he gets to the line so much.

The reason why Martin used to get to the line so much was because he did the "rip through" foul. After the rule change, his FTA took a nosedive. Kevin Martin is also definitely not a good ball handler, and he's nowhere near Harden in that regard.

I can only assume (since I don't watch college ball) that the centerpiece of this trade is not Kevin Martin, but the rookies/future prospects.

And Martin certainly doesn't get to the basket very much anymore. I responded to someone in the LD version of this thread pointing that out. Martin takes some ridiculously high percentage of his shots from outside. Something like 80% or more from outside on the perimeter. Harden was great at getting to the basket. Martin is not in the same league as he is, especially at his age after his injury issues.
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Re: ROCKETS to acquire James Harden!

Postby Tobias Funke on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:24 am

24/23goats wrote:harden is good... but not max money good. wtf was the point of the lockout if they still throw max money at players that are max players? so that they can spend less to pay the max? lol....max


Lol Well, technically you're worth what teams are willing to pay you. Some years money is tight and players get paid less than they would other times, but more often than not its a case like this where a team throws max money at a player just because they have it to spend. Then the owners complain like you said. To be fair though, Morey wasn't gonna attract any decent players outside of a trade and a large contract so...

Pretty good write up on Hardens production with OKC btw guys.

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