Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Basketball Fan on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:04 am

As someone who doesn't like either team in the NBA Finals I actually believe Jason Terry here.


http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maverick ... tage-in-g1

Jason Terry suspicious of Gm. 1 AC outage

In the wake of Miami Heat forward LeBron James' cramping up and being carried off the floor at the end of Game 1 of the NBA Finals against the San Antonio Spurs, much of the discussion hovered around his toughness.

Another line of thinking gravitated toward some form of foul play. Many wondered whether the electrical failure that caused the air-conditioning outage at the AT&T Center on Thursday in San Antonio was something more than a simple dose of coincidence.

Former Dallas Mavericks guard Jason Terry joined ESPN Dallas 103.3 FM’s “The Afternoon Show with Tim Cowlishaw and Matt Mosley” on Friday and reasoned the Spurs could have made a tactical move in regard to the AC based on what the veteran point guard has seen them do in the past.

“You know what, Pop [Spurs coach Gregg Popovich] has done that so many times. I don't know if it's a conspiracy, but I'm telling you, going into San Antonio is a tough place to play,” Terry said.

“And I can remember very well one time where it was cold showers, there were about a thousand flies in the locker room. This year, there was a snake in the locker room. So, they're going to pull out all the stops to get into your head.

“When you go to San Antonio, expect something like that. And Miami fell victim to it."

Temperatures reached as high as 90 degrees in the arena during Game 1, causing much discomfort for both teams on the floor.

The unexpected has become the norm in San Antonio as unique disturbances occur within the AT&T Center, as Terry mentioned. There also was an incident in which a bat was seen flying around the arena in a game played near the end of the 2010-11 season.

The always outspoken guard said he remembered games when the Mavs thought the Spurs had the heat turned up on them.

"Oh, no question,” Terry said. “For an event of that magnitude, to say that the AT&T Center's air-conditioning is not working -- there's definitely something wrong with that."

The league has been informed that the electrical failure has been repaired and will not impact play for Sunday’s Game 2 of the Finals.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:41 am

So no complaints about the Heat turning up the AC to help Lebron at home?
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Kasumi on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:59 am

Yes, the Spurs clearly planted the bat in their arena too, so that Manu could demonstrate his bat-catching abilities. And snakes in Texas, who has ever heard of such a thing?!

Jason Terry = #bitter
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Weezy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:05 am

Oh boy this isn't going to go away is it. Yeah, I'm sure the Spurs subjected their fans who paid good money to sit and enjoy a game in comfort, tons of families with small children, to this sort of heat on purpose. I'm sure the Spurs knew that having it 90 degrees inside would ensure a win for their team. So now because team from Texas lives in a hot place it's an advantage? Despite their players not being from Texas, or that they always practice and play in air conditioned facilities? And Miami isn't a hot place too, with even worse humidity? Is it me or could this conspiracy stuff not be any dumber, how does it make sense on any level?
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:25 am

Ok this has to be the dumbest conspiracy theory ever. The Spurs have the older players so playing them in 90 degree heat would help them out?
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby CGrand81 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:59 am

You gotta give it to conspiracy theorists, they're persistent.

I'll rank this one up there with the Patriots winning their first Super Bowl after 9/11, and..... New Orleans winning there's after Katrina.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:58 pm

:man10:
All you have to do is understand Building Codes and modern Chiller systems to know that this didn't "just happen" in a catastrophic manner.

Any modern building that houses the public in an "Assembly" space (defined by law/code) is required to have not only fully redundant cooling equipment but fully redundant power to each in a parallel critical branch configuration.

Screw Chillers don't all go tits-up at the same time and they also don't do it without warning. The DDC control systems on them report a few hundred times a second to sophisticated software control systems that shed load from units that are failing to the redundant ones.

The odds of all of that failing simultaneously are high.... and that's being kind.

Interesting in that TX Health Department Law requires the building be evacuated when the temperature reaches 90° for longer than 1 hr. as well.

When it happened it seemed really fishy to me. Most of the codes put in place to prevent this came about from the fiasco at the old Boston Garden which used massive evaporation cooling towers that were so old that there were no parts for them.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:02 pm

Even if they did rig the AC, so what? It subjected both teams to extreme heat. And cramps aren't automatic for LeBron, whenever it's hot, so there's no forcing that either.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:46 pm

So the Spurs old as moses arc were able to defeat a basketball that lives in one of the hottest states in America AC or not? **side eye** Because that's just the only plausible way Miami could dare lose to someone as beneath them as the Spurs **eye roll**
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby JSM on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:46 pm

JT has always been one for a good conspiracy theory. Remember his articles as the mysterious writer for ESPN?
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby laakers on Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:47 pm

Rooscooter wrote::man10:
All you have to do is understand Building Codes and modern Chiller systems to know that this didn't "just happen" in a catastrophic manner.

Any modern building that houses the public in an "Assembly" space (defined by law/code) is required to have not only fully redundant cooling equipment but fully redundant power to each in a parallel critical branch configuration.

Screw Chillers don't all go tits-up at the same time and they also don't do it without warning. The DDC control systems on them report a few hundred times a second to sophisticated software control systems that shed load from units that are failing to the redundant ones.

The odds of all of that failing simultaneously are high.... and that's being kind.

Interesting in that TX Health Department Law requires the building be evacuated when the temperature reaches 90° for longer than 1 hr. as well.

When it happened it seemed really fishy to me. Most of the codes put in place to prevent this came about from the fiasco at the old Boston Garden which used massive evaporation cooling towers that were so old that there were no parts for them.


Roo saves the day... :man10:

It may be fishy, yes. And you clearly back up that it seems like something is going on here. But again... How is it that only LeGod cramps?

From a statistical perspective... He had played the most minutes out of anyone to the point he got subbed out first from cramping with 7:31 left in the 4th. He played 32:53 total, and only played for :24 more after he got subbed out that first time (went in for one offensive possession, and scored) so he had played for 32:29 by 7:31 left in the 4th. The other players with the highest minutes, from highest to lowest were: Parker (36:36), Bosh (33:34), Duncan (33:09), Diaw (33:07), Wade (33:08), Allen (32:20), Ginobili (32:10), and Lewis (30:38). Had LeBron finished the game out instead of getting subbed, he would have played exactly 40:00.

So clearly he was going the hardest. Maybe it was on him to stay more hydrated, or on the coach to play him less. But seeing as he was wanting to sub out earlier in the game (I can't remember exactly when) I think that this is a personal problem for LeBron, bigger than air conditioning. Again, association does not imply causation. So I don't buy that the "Spurs tampered with the AC so that LeCramp would do his thing."

My conspiracy is that the Spurs tampered with the AC, similar to all the other antics they've done in the past (that 100% weren't actual strange occurrences :man1: ), so that the Heat would have a reaction. Unfortunately for the Spurs (fortunate at the time), LeBron decided to make an epic about his cramping, white-flagging game 1 and getting the media on his side (cause it's never on his side), and storms back game 2, wins games 3-4, lets the Spurs get their home court game 5, but takes advantage of the finals format change and takes it in game 6. Gets his first 3-peat out of the way. We'll see what happens :man10:


edit: And just to note, it really bugged me how much of a scene he was making as he left. Writhing around on very first seat on the bench, eventually having Juwan Howard and some assistant coach carry him off the court, only to walk once he got past the tunnel. Doesn't seem professional to me... Too egotistical.




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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:24 pm

I didn't make any assertion about the teams or players..... Just the building systems. I know a little about those.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Kasumi on Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:48 pm

Peter Holt and Coach Pop, men leading an organization known for its class, are extremely rational people. Intentionally shutting down the A/C would require the knowledge of too many people to keep something that big silent. In a risk/reward analysis, subjecting their own players to dangerous conditions with no guarantee of payoff, is simply not worth it.

CIA Pop is absolutely capable of playing mind games, but not of cheating.

I don't have the technical expertise of Roo to refute his statements, I can only say that such an act is not logical and therefore not possible.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Congo Cash on Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:10 pm

So they rigged game 1 for a potential lawsuit if people starts passing out from the excessive heat, makes sense to me...
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:52 pm

It was for shock value. The Spurs players weren't affected because they were prepared for it. Probably practiced under such condition without AC, days leading to the game. It was like the rattlesnake in the locker. Really demoralizing for opponents.

Pop may not intended for Lebron to get cramps but playing under such conditions really affected the Heat.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:06 pm

Kasumi wrote:Peter Holt and Coach Pop, men leading an organization known for its class, are extremely rational people. Intentionally shutting down the A/C would require the knowledge of too many people to keep something that big silent. In a risk/reward analysis, subjecting their own players to dangerous conditions with no guarantee of payoff, is simply not worth it.

CIA Pop is absolutely capable of playing mind games, but not of cheating.

I don't have the technical expertise of Roo to refute his statements, I can only say that such an act is not logical and therefore not possible.

Codes dictate a completely redundant system..... They also dictate evacuation in excessive heat in the event of catastrophic failure.

Now they have it running in just 3 days there is now way to replace or repair unique equipment in just 3 days. The chillers themselves are a 8 week lead item and the switch gear to power them is unique and takes weeks to fabricate.

The more I think about it the less plausible a simultainious catastrophic failure sounds. Just too much would have to go wrong at just the right time.

Now notice I didn't lay any blame on any one specifically.... Therefore I haven't sullied anyone's reputation.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Forward Three on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:27 pm

Of course building codes being what they are doesn't necessarily mean they're *actually* all being followed. It is Texas after all, they're pretty vocal in their dislike of rules and regulations, and in the government and private sectors alike there is no shortage of cases of people not doing their jobs, systems not operating to code, inspectors not doing their jobs, cover-ups and whatever else. I mean every time there's a major oil spill we do the same "how could this happen with (insert modern prevention, failsafes, redundancies, care, whatever)" followed by anecdotes and reports of how many things were not up to code or how many fails were on the inspections, followed by anecdotes and reports of how impossible it is for these major industrial sites to actually follow code and the skewed and not-entirely-honest nature of inspection and following regulation overall. Followed by...etc...etc. When often the simple, often uncomfortable, answer is just 'welp, these things happen'

I suppose if interested parties are interested enough we may get follow up on this with inspection reports and interviews with responsible parties and other investigations.

At this phase though it seems impossible to know if the arena was *actually* up to snuff with following the proper procedures or if they were cutting corners in some way or another skating by and getting away with it.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Forward Three on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:31 pm

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Pop may not intended for Lebron to get cramps but playing under such conditions really affected the Heat.


Did it though? Until Lebron went out they had been rolling. Playing the game they wanted to play, comfortably leading, intercepting passing lanes, forcing turnovers...etc. That's Heat Basketball. Sure they had some shots on the bench with ice packs and they eventually wilted eventually in the 4th, sure, but it wasn't like they were playing subpar the whole game either. Maybe not championship caliber play, but certainly not like they were completely off their game. The Spurs, if anything, were a bit more off their game with all those turnovers.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:41 pm

Forward Three wrote:Of course building codes being what they are doesn't necessarily mean they're *actually* all being followed. It is Texas after all, they're pretty vocal in their dislike of rules and regulations, and in the government and private sectors alike there is no shortage of cases of people not doing their jobs, systems not operating to code, inspectors not doing their jobs, cover-ups and whatever else. I mean every time there's a major oil spill we do the same "how could this happen with (insert modern prevention, failsafes, redundancies, care, whatever)" followed by anecdotes and reports of how many things were not up to code or how many fails were on the inspections, followed by anecdotes and reports of how impossible it is for these major industrial sites to actually follow code and the skewed and not-entirely-honest nature of inspection and following regulation overall. Followed by...etc...etc. When often the simple, often uncomfortable, answer is just 'welp, these things happen'

I suppose if interested parties are interested enough we may get follow up on this with inspection reports and interviews with responsible parties and other investigations.

At this phase though it seems impossible to know if the arena was *actually* up to snuff with following the proper procedures or if they were cutting corners in some way or another skating by and getting away with it.


Texas has their crap together a hundred times more than CA..... I've worked in both states for over twenty years and Texas actually uses modern codes.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Kasumi on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:15 pm

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:It was for shock value. The Spurs players weren't affected because they were prepared for it. Probably practiced under such condition without AC, days leading to the game.

Right, because the hoards of reporters following the Finals and practices wouldn't have noticed that the players were suddenly practicing in sweltering heat.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Kasumi on Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Roo, if there could be a power failure at the Superdome during a Super Bowl, why is it impossible that there was an electrical failure for the power that runs the A/C here?
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:47 am

I don't buy the "conspiracies talk" ... I wonder when the Spurs were aware of the pb though and what decision could have been taken ?

Was the AC "broken" from the start of the game ? Didn't even pay attention watching it live at 3 AM
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:51 am

The whole thing is over-blown. LeBron talks about extreme conditions, but it was obviously completely playable. Only LeBron wilted, and the probability of it occurring was slim. He doesn't cramp in every road game, so,it's doubtful that the spurs would go through all of that trouble over a slim chance. It would be much more likely that a fan collapses and sues the organization.

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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:34 am

Kasumi wrote:Roo, if there could be a power failure at the Superdome during a Super Bowl, why is it impossible that there was an electrical failure for the power that runs the A/C here?


Not impossible....... Highly unlikely? Yes. In NO it was a Utility issue....not the building system.

A power failure is something that happens off site or in just one system. A complete failure of a system that is specifically designed not to fail is just a little different. For instance.... If the power completely failed at the arena the AC would continue to run for 1 hour on generators that run on diesel fuel. This is a life safety issue just as emergency lighting.

This type of system I'd required for just about all public assembly spaces by code.

I've been trying to find the original building inspection reports....they are public domain. When I do I'll post what they say about the building systems.
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Re: Jason Terry suspicious of Game 1 AC outage

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:38 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:I don't buy the "conspiracies talk" ... I wonder when the Spurs were aware of the pb though and what decision could have been taken ?

Was the AC "broken" from the start of the game ? Didn't even pay attention watching it live at 3 AM


I'm not pushing any conspiracy. I'm just noting what I know about public buildings..... Which is not novice level knowledge.
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