Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Paul on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:23 am

Johnnyboy wrote:
Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?


The real comparison should be with games played, not age. MJ achieved much more in less games.

Bingo! Slim is a cheater.
User avatar
Paul
Clublakers Rep: Germany/Poland
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:40 am
Location: Germany

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Phil XI on Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:38 am

John3:16 wrote:
Phil XI wrote:LOL @ team usa pts as something meaning anything.

Regardless of the next two/three years, BSPN will never let Kobe GOAT happen. Mars Blackmon made them.


Spike Lee made BSPN? :man3:

:man10: :man10: :man10:


Completely. Those Jordan-Spike Mars commercials got BSPN into the hoop game and got guys like me in my prime sports fanaticism then, 20s, to tune in. CBS was owning it in the mid 80s. 24/7 coverage of Bias's death also. The first four-five yrs, BSPN was seen as a joke by us, monster truck racing, fishing, crap. The tourney and nfl draft were the only reasons to tune in and that was for about 60 days out of the year. There was no 2nd and 3rd stations yet, no 24 hour sports news stuff.
Get 17!!
User avatar
Phil XI

 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Thanks Ron for Gm7! You'll always be a Laker Legend!

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:00 pm

Kobe/MJ

Total games played (including playoffs):

1,381 / 1,251 Difference of 130 games

Total minutes played (including playoffs):

51,018 / 48,485 Difference of 2, 533 minutes

Take from that what you will. My opinion on the matter is, there is nothing Kobe Bryant can do to be better than Michael Jordan or even his equal. Considering Kobe Bryant as his equal equates to saying Kobe Bryant is the greatest basketball player of all-time. Two more rings and two more finals MVP's places him above Magic. I'd rank the top 5 as follows if this happens...

1) Michael Jordan/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Magic Johnson
4) Bill Russell
5) Wilt Chamberlain

These 5 guys are a combination of the most clutch, dominant, accomplished, and critiqued players of all-time. This is rare air. Kobe being top 3 is something maybe even Kobe Bryant never thought would happen. Or, maybe it's not enough for him. Who knows?

Michael's king position in the game remains there for a few reasons for me. He's the most clutch athlete, let alone basketball player, of all-time. He's a perfect 6 for 6 in the finals giving him 6 finals MVP's, the most all-time. He's always been the best player on his team, without question. He's one of only 6 guards to ever win DPOY. And, aside from the scoring feats (41.0 ppg in the Finals in 93', 30.1 ppg for a career, 50% from the field for his career, second most 50 point games behind Wilt etc. etc.) he is considered as simultaneously the best offensive and defensive player of his generation. No one player in his era had that balance. Michael was special for these reasons. Kobe is special for different reasons. Different situations, different teams, different variables. But MJ, in my opinion, reigns supreme.
Last edited by Iceberg Slim on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby John3:16 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:32 pm

^^^ Kareem doesn't have 6 Finals MVPs. He has 2.
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31874
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:15 pm

Correction noted. 6 regular season MVP's for KAJ, tied for most all-time along with His Airness
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby John3:16 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:28 pm

^^^ nope. Jordan "only" has 5 regular season MVPs.
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31874
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Finwë on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:47 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:
Michael's king position in the game remains there for a few reasons for me. He's the most clutch athlete, let alone basketball player, of all-time. He's a perfect 6 for 6 in the finals giving him 6 finals MVP's, the most all-time. He's always been the best player on his team, without question. He's one of only 6 guards to ever win DPOY. And, aside from the scoring feats (41.0 ppg in the Finals in 93', 30.1 ppg for a career, 50% from the field for his career, second most 50 point games behind Wilt etc. etc.) he is considered as simultaneously the best offensive and defensive player of his generation. No one player in his era had that balance. Michael was special for these reasons. Kobe is special for different reasons. Different situations, different teams, different variables. But MJ, in my opinion, reigns supreme.

I think it's undeniable that Jordan was the best offensive player of his generation, but also the best defensively? I don't think so.. Guys like Pippen (who was his teammate...), Rodman (another Jordan teammate), Mutombo, Olajuwon and Payton (does Moncrief count as part of MJs generation?) IMO impacted the defensive end more than MJ did.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
User avatar
Finwë

 
Posts: 8079
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:32 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby John3:16 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:15 am

Finwë wrote:I think it's undeniable that Jordan was the best offensive player of his generation, but also the best defensively? I don't think so.. Guys like Pippen (who was his teammate...), Rodman (another Jordan teammate), Mutombo, Olajuwon and Payton (does Moncrief count as part of MJs generation?) IMO impacted the defensive end more than MJ did.


I agree. Jordan was a phenomenal defensive player, but I wouldn't say he was the best of his generation either. 2 of his own teammates, as you listed, were better IMO. Jordan had a tough time with small / fast guards like AI and Stoudamire (mighty mouse, not Amare) -- both crossed him up and made him look ridiculous, whereas Kobe could guard both of these guys pretty effectively.
Last edited by John3:16 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31874
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:59 am

Haha...I haven't dug in the crates in awhile John.
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby retro_nights on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:04 am

John3:16 wrote:
Finwë wrote:I think it's undeniable that Jordan was the best offensive player of his generation, but also the best defensively? I don't think so.. Guys like Pippen (who was his teammate...), Rodman (another Jordan teammate), Mutombo, Olajuwon and Payton (does Moncrief count as part of MJs generation?) IMO impacted the defensive end more than MJ did.


I agree. Jordan was a phenomenal defensive player, but I wouldn't say he was the best of his generation either. 2 of his own teammates, as you listed, were better IMO. Jordan had a tough time with small / fast guards like AI and Stoudamire (mighty mouse, not Amare) -- both crossed him up and made him look ridiculous, whereas Kobe could guard both of these guys pretty effectively.


That was post 30 Jordan too, though. If we're going there, people could find young guns that have made Kobe look bad, too.

I honestly think the AI crossover on Jordan is one of the most overrated plays in history.
---
Team lakers
User avatar
retro_nights

 
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Bay

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:40 am

Let's get into it...

Defensively, as far as guards are concerned, Michael Jordan is as good as any player from 1984-1998. Allen Iverson types play passing lanes at a high level. Bruce Bowen-like defenders can square up on a player and handcuff them for 40 minutes. Michael was a blend of both styles. Because of his prowess on the defensive end, he ranks 3rd all-time in steals, 2nd all-time in steals in the playoffs only to Scottie Pippen. (John fact check me, please). He's a 9-time First Team All-Defense player who was also the first player to ever lead the league in both scoring and steals...which he did 3 times. Only Iverson has done it since, once. He still holds the record for most steals in a half, with 8. His 893 career total blocks is the most by any guard in history. Additionally, his 131 blocks in a 82 game season was the most all-time of any guard. As we should know, he was the first player (not just guard) to ever record 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season. Only Hakeem and Scottie has matched those efforts, but Jordan achieved the feat twice. Jordan is the player with the most combinations of scoring titles and All-Defensive First team honors with nine. He's also the only player to win the scoring title and the Defensive Player of the Year award in the same season - 1988. I could go on, but I think the point is clear.

Offensively, he's unmatched. Defensively, you have to compare him only to the greatest defensive players who have ever played the game - Olajuwon, Rodman, Pippen, Payton just to name a few. And 3 out of the 4 names are fowards or centers. Mike reigns supreme because the combination of his work ethic/talent he had was unmatched by very humans who have the stepped onto a basketball floor. There will never be another him. The gods seem to favor him above everyone else.
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:53 am

retro_nights wrote:
John3:16 wrote:
Finwë wrote:I think it's undeniable that Jordan was the best offensive player of his generation, but also the best defensively? I don't think so.. Guys like Pippen (who was his teammate...), Rodman (another Jordan teammate), Mutombo, Olajuwon and Payton (does Moncrief count as part of MJs generation?) IMO impacted the defensive end more than MJ did.


I agree. Jordan was a phenomenal defensive player, but I wouldn't say he was the best of his generation either. 2 of his own teammates, as you listed, were better IMO. Jordan had a tough time with small / fast guards like AI and Stoudamire (mighty mouse, not Amare) -- both crossed him up and made him look ridiculous, whereas Kobe could guard both of these guys pretty effectively.


That was post 30 Jordan too, though. If we're going there, people could find young guns that have made Kobe look bad, too.

I honestly think the AI crossover on Jordan is one of the most overrated plays in history.


100% agreement with everything said here. We all watch Laker games. Kobe gets crossed up. It's no big deal. Like a supreme shot blocker getting dunked on. Part of the game.

I will say, even though the crossover is overrated thanks to people saying it was sickest cross ever, they only speak on the gravity of the moment considering who it was on. Sure, Michael got crossed way before the 1996-1997 season. But it was a special moment for the young Allen Iverson. The dynamics involved speak volumes. The king vs. the young prince. The legend vs. the hot-shot rookie. The class of the professional world vs. the ghetto superstar. And in 3 dribbles, the Earth shook to it's core.
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby John3:16 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:30 am

For as great a defensive player Jordan was, I'm shocked he only has 7 1st Team All D selections. I know it's a lot, but considering who he is and who votes on the selections, it's surprising. And yes, Kobe has more. :man12:
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31874
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Phil XI on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:01 pm

Eh, defense is overrated. Give me mid-00's Suns vs 80's Nuggs anyday.
Get 17!!
User avatar
Phil XI

 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Thanks Ron for Gm7! You'll always be a Laker Legend!

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:12 am

:man9: You're so easy John.
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Previous

Return to NBA Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 28 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.