Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?

I think he's right there. At 36 Kobe would have 4 Finals MVPs and 7 rings to Jordan's 6 Finals MVPs and 6 rings.

That makes for an interesting debate. Especially since Kobe will have passed him in scoring at that point as well.

I think you're right. Kobe has no chance at winning anymore MVPs in my book. He was "robbed" a couple of times when he was the hottest scorer in the league, maybe ever, and he didn't get recognized. I think people will look back at that 05-06 season and say "damn he should have won". The numbers were certainly there...

Regardless, I think right now he ranks right behind him by a nose. Just a nose. If he can win two more rings and be the Finals MVP of both of those, he is right up on the same level. Neither would be better than the other in my book, they'd just be equally the best SGs of all time. You can't lie with the numbers, Kobe's right with Jordan he just didn't have the adolation and therefore missed some of the accolades.

Jordan will get the edge for now with his DPOY and his MVPs, but it's just the slightest edge.

7 rings, 2 more FMVP would be such gravy for a storied career. Some people will be finally forced to recognize his accomplishments and his GOAT ranking claim.

By that time, Kobe will be the top scorer of all time in the playoffs and passed MJ on the scoring all time charts too. Tough to argue against that kind of career.

And although Kobe did get robbed of MVPS when Nash won, I'm willing to forgive if Nash helps Kobe win 2+ more rings he he he

Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.

i generally don't get involved in these debates, but i think kobe's clearly #2 (though the gap is smaller than the media will ever admit). i don't think anything he does from this point forward will change that, as you could argue that starting this year, he won't be the best player on his own team for the foreseeable future (this same issue already hamstrings him, as shaq gets all the credit for the first three titles, right or wrong).

all that said, the margin between kobe and whomever is #3 at the sg position is pretty huge, imo.

Chopper wrote:7 rings, 2 more FMVP would be such gravy for a storied career. Some people will be finally forced to recognize his accomplishments and his GOAT ranking claim.

By that time, Kobe will be the top scorer of all time in the playoffs and passed MJ on the scoring all time charts too. Tough to argue against that kind of career.

And although Kobe did get robbed of MVPS when Nash won, I'm willing to forgive if Nash helps Kobe win 2+ more rings he he he

Great point. When it's all said and done, if Nash helps Kobe win 2 more Finals MVPs, then that makes up for taking a couple regular season ones from him.

If he can pull that off, now we're talking. Now the debate really has to rage on. No more excuses. Kobe holds records all over the league and if we're talking 2 more seasons of success we're talking about one of the great careers of all time. 7 rings and 9 Finals appearances... Damn. We're lucky to have him for what he's done so far, if he pulls that off he's got to be on par. I mean seriously, he has to be on par with anyone you want to measure him against.

Kobe will never be better than MJ, but hes the closest, and that is a great accomplishment.

retro_nights wrote:Kobe will never be better than MJ, but hes the closest, and that is a great accomplishment.

He doesn't have to be better, but he can be his equal. I don't see it as being far fetched to think that if Kobe wins 2 more Finals MVPs and 2 more rings (and some of the seasonal accolades as well) that he's Jordan's equal.

To get there he'd have to pass Jordan on both the Playoff and Regular Season scoring totals. He'd have to pass Jordan in total assists (if he maintains his career average he'll pass Jordan in 46 games), total rebounds (he'll do it probably not this season, but next), and he's already far exceeded his minutes played (barring injury Kobe will finish in the top 15, Jordan is 24th).

If Kobe plays two more seasons he'll probably end up with 2 more All-Star selections, an All-NBA selection, and probably another All-Defensive 2nd team selection. That puts him at 16 All-Star appearances, 11 All-NBA selections, and 4 All-Defensive 2nd team selections (With 9 1st team selections as well).

Jordan had 14 total All-Star appearances, 10 All-NBA selections, and 9 All-Defensive 1st team selections. Kobe matches up favorably in all of those. Again, the only place Jordan wins is in the MVP department and defensively, but Kobe, if he can pull off two more rings and two more Finals MVPs, he's got a career that absolutely puts him even with anyone, including Jordan.

therealdeal wrote:I think you're right. Kobe has no chance at winning anymore MVPs in my book. He was "robbed" a couple of times when he was the hottest scorer in the league, maybe ever, and he didn't get recognized. I think people will look back at that 05-06 season and say "damn he should have won". The numbers were certainly there...

That was the whole reason why we got Nash!! So Kobe can steal those MVP trophies back

Kobe had Shaq, MJ had Luc Longley yo.

kray28 wrote:Kobe had Shaq, MJ had Luc Longley yo.

MJ had Pippen, Kobe had Smush Parker yo.

Hey, Luc Longley wasn't that bad...

even when kobe finishes with 7 or 8 rings the media will not allow the mythical status they created for MJ to be ever shattered.. that is unless lebron wins a second title then he becomes the GOAT

Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?

One stat that is missing and its Total Minutes played. Even though they are the same age, if you look at Total Minutes played (regular season and then Playoffs) there is a rather huge difference in how much more Kobe has.

CaCHooKa Man wrote:even when kobe finishes with 7 or 8 rings the media will not allow the mythical status they created for MJ to be ever shattered.. that is unless lebron wins a second title then he becomes the GOAT

I don't know man... one chip may do it for lebron

lakerswiz wrote:No way Kobe is ever the GOAT in the media's eyes. The excuse will now always be Dwight Howard and Steven Nash and Pau Gasol were more help than Jordan ever had. Especially if Kobe ends up being 2nd leading scorer on another title run.

I'm pretty sure he'll still be the leading scorer.

Of course, he'll shoot less FG% than Dwight, Pau and Nash, so there is a nice excuse.

lakerswiz wrote:No way Kobe is ever the GOAT in the media's eyes. The excuse will now always be Dwight Howard and Steven Nash and Pau Gasol were more help than Jordan ever had. Especially if Kobe ends up being 2nd leading scorer on another title run.

I don't see Kobe coming in second in scoring this season or any season until he retires (for the Laker team of course).

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.

Where does Kobe rank in your current list?
I have him in the top 5...
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Russell.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.

So you're saying that right now Kobe is barely top 10?

Once Kobe has retired, I think a lot of the media hate will recede. I can imagine MJ being remembered as the greatest competitor ever, and Kobe the greatest scorer ever (at SG).

Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?

The real comparison should be with games played, not age. MJ achieved much more in less games.

^ Jordan also went to college so he didn't have the transition period into the NBA that Kobe needed straight out of high school.

LOL @ team usa pts as something meaning anything.

Regardless of the next two/three years, BSPN will never let Kobe GOAT happen. Mars Blackmon made them.

Phil XI wrote:LOL @ team usa pts as something meaning anything.

Regardless of the next two/three years, BSPN will never let Kobe GOAT happen. Mars Blackmon made them.

Spike Lee made BSPN?

Johnnyboy wrote:

Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?

The real comparison should be with games played, not age. MJ achieved much more in less games.

Bingo! Slim is a cheater.