Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Iceberg Slim on Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:32 am

For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?
www.thesportslyceum.com - personal blog

Image
User avatar
Iceberg Slim

 
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:24 am

I think he's right there. At 36 Kobe would have 4 Finals MVPs and 7 rings to Jordan's 6 Finals MVPs and 6 rings.

That makes for an interesting debate. Especially since Kobe will have passed him in scoring at that point as well.

I think you're right. Kobe has no chance at winning anymore MVPs in my book. He was "robbed" a couple of times when he was the hottest scorer in the league, maybe ever, and he didn't get recognized. I think people will look back at that 05-06 season and say "damn he should have won". The numbers were certainly there...

Regardless, I think right now he ranks right behind him by a nose. Just a nose. If he can win two more rings and be the Finals MVP of both of those, he is right up on the same level. Neither would be better than the other in my book, they'd just be equally the best SGs of all time. You can't lie with the numbers, Kobe's right with Jordan he just didn't have the adolation and therefore missed some of the accolades.

Jordan will get the edge for now with his DPOY and his MVPs, but it's just the slightest edge.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Chopper on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:09 am

7 rings, 2 more FMVP would be such gravy for a storied career. Some people will be finally forced to recognize his accomplishments and his GOAT ranking claim.

By that time, Kobe will be the top scorer of all time in the playoffs and passed MJ on the scoring all time charts too. Tough to argue against that kind of career.

And although Kobe did get robbed of MVPS when Nash won, I'm willing to forgive if Nash helps Kobe win 2+ more rings he he he
Chopper

 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:07 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.
User avatar
JoelMyersScrotalSack

 
Posts: 6778
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:10 am

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby abeer3 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:36 pm

i generally don't get involved in these debates, but i think kobe's clearly #2 (though the gap is smaller than the media will ever admit). i don't think anything he does from this point forward will change that, as you could argue that starting this year, he won't be the best player on his own team for the foreseeable future (this same issue already hamstrings him, as shaq gets all the credit for the first three titles, right or wrong).

all that said, the margin between kobe and whomever is #3 at the sg position is pretty huge, imo.
abeer3

 
Posts: 9986
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:37 pm

Chopper wrote:7 rings, 2 more FMVP would be such gravy for a storied career. Some people will be finally forced to recognize his accomplishments and his GOAT ranking claim.

By that time, Kobe will be the top scorer of all time in the playoffs and passed MJ on the scoring all time charts too. Tough to argue against that kind of career.

And although Kobe did get robbed of MVPS when Nash won, I'm willing to forgive if Nash helps Kobe win 2+ more rings he he he

Great point. When it's all said and done, if Nash helps Kobe win 2 more Finals MVPs, then that makes up for taking a couple regular season ones from him.

If he can pull that off, now we're talking. Now the debate really has to rage on. No more excuses. Kobe holds records all over the league and if we're talking 2 more seasons of success we're talking about one of the great careers of all time. 7 rings and 9 Finals appearances... Damn. We're lucky to have him for what he's done so far, if he pulls that off he's got to be on par. I mean seriously, he has to be on par with anyone you want to measure him against.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby retro_nights on Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:24 pm

Kobe will never be better than MJ, but hes the closest, and that is a great accomplishment.
---
Team lakers
User avatar
retro_nights

 
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Bay

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:41 pm

retro_nights wrote:Kobe will never be better than MJ, but hes the closest, and that is a great accomplishment.

He doesn't have to be better, but he can be his equal. I don't see it as being far fetched to think that if Kobe wins 2 more Finals MVPs and 2 more rings (and some of the seasonal accolades as well) that he's Jordan's equal.

To get there he'd have to pass Jordan on both the Playoff and Regular Season scoring totals. He'd have to pass Jordan in total assists (if he maintains his career average he'll pass Jordan in 46 games), total rebounds (he'll do it probably not this season, but next), and he's already far exceeded his minutes played (barring injury Kobe will finish in the top 15, Jordan is 24th).

If Kobe plays two more seasons he'll probably end up with 2 more All-Star selections, an All-NBA selection, and probably another All-Defensive 2nd team selection. That puts him at 16 All-Star appearances, 11 All-NBA selections, and 4 All-Defensive 2nd team selections (With 9 1st team selections as well).

Jordan had 14 total All-Star appearances, 10 All-NBA selections, and 9 All-Defensive 1st team selections. Kobe matches up favorably in all of those. Again, the only place Jordan wins is in the MVP department and defensively, but Kobe, if he can pull off two more rings and two more Finals MVPs, he's got a career that absolutely puts him even with anyone, including Jordan.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Forklift on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:21 pm

therealdeal wrote:I think you're right. Kobe has no chance at winning anymore MVPs in my book. He was "robbed" a couple of times when he was the hottest scorer in the league, maybe ever, and he didn't get recognized. I think people will look back at that 05-06 season and say "damn he should have won". The numbers were certainly there...



That was the whole reason why we got Nash!! So Kobe can steal those MVP trophies back :jam2: :jam2:
User avatar
Forklift

 
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby kray28 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:30 pm

Kobe had Shaq, MJ had Luc Longley yo.
Image
User avatar
kray28

 
Posts: 21207
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:34 pm

kray28 wrote:Kobe had Shaq, MJ had Luc Longley yo.

MJ had Pippen, Kobe had Smush Parker yo.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Congo Cash on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Hey, Luc Longley wasn't that bad... :disagree:
- insert signature here -
User avatar
Congo Cash

 
Posts: 4495
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:58 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:26 pm

even when kobe finishes with 7 or 8 rings the media will not allow the mythical status they created for MJ to be ever shattered.. that is unless lebron wins a second title then he becomes the GOAT
User avatar
CaCHooKa Man
Human Highlight Reel
 
Posts: 20134
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:22 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Battle Tested20 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:37 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?


One stat that is missing and its Total Minutes played. Even though they are the same age, if you look at Total Minutes played (regular season and then Playoffs) there is a rather huge difference in how much more Kobe has.
Image
"I just put my faith in God. Through him we can do all things"
- Kobe Bryant, March 24, 2004
User avatar
Battle Tested20

 
Posts: 10954
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:39 pm
Location: San Diego, CA (SDSU)

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby kenzo on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:40 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:even when kobe finishes with 7 or 8 rings the media will not allow the mythical status they created for MJ to be ever shattered.. that is unless lebron wins a second title then he becomes the GOAT

I don't know man... one chip may do it for lebron :freak2:
User avatar
kenzo

 
Posts: 5579
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Magic Skywalker on Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:41 pm

lakerswiz wrote:No way Kobe is ever the GOAT in the media's eyes. The excuse will now always be Dwight Howard and Steven Nash and Pau Gasol were more help than Jordan ever had. Especially if Kobe ends up being 2nd leading scorer on another title run.


I'm pretty sure he'll still be the leading scorer.

Of course, he'll shoot less FG% than Dwight, Pau and Nash, so there is a nice excuse.
@MagicSkywalker Basketamericano
User avatar
Magic Skywalker

 
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:45 pm

lakerswiz wrote:No way Kobe is ever the GOAT in the media's eyes. The excuse will now always be Dwight Howard and Steven Nash and Pau Gasol were more help than Jordan ever had. Especially if Kobe ends up being 2nd leading scorer on another title run.

I don't see Kobe coming in second in scoring this season or any season until he retires (for the Laker team of course).
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Finwë on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:46 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.

:man3:
Where does Kobe rank in your current list?
I have him in the top 5...
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Russell.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
User avatar
Finwë

 
Posts: 8070
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:32 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:00 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Winning rings doesn't mean much for legacy unless you're the best player on the team. If he has an average RS+PS (for his standards) again and the Lakers still win a championship then he doesn't move up on my list. Now if he dominates this coming season and wins a FMVP then I would say he moves to #6 or 7.

So you're saying that right now Kobe is barely top 10? :man10:
Image
User avatar
Texas Lakers Fan

 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:26 am

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:01 pm

Once Kobe has retired, I think a lot of the media hate will recede. I can imagine MJ being remembered as the greatest competitor ever, and Kobe the greatest scorer ever (at SG).
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
V.V.V.V.V.

 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Hollywood

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Johnnyboy on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:08 am

Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?


The real comparison should be with games played, not age. MJ achieved much more in less games.
www.CheckYourMD.com
User avatar
Johnnyboy

 
Posts: 1780
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:31 am

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:15 am

^ Jordan also went to college so he didn't have the transition period into the NBA that Kobe needed straight out of high school.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37019
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Phil XI on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:38 pm

LOL @ team usa pts as something meaning anything.

Regardless of the next two/three years, BSPN will never let Kobe GOAT happen. Mars Blackmon made them.
Get 17!!
User avatar
Phil XI

 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Thanks Ron for Gm7! You'll always be a Laker Legend!

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby John3:16 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:54 pm

Phil XI wrote:LOL @ team usa pts as something meaning anything.

Regardless of the next two/three years, BSPN will never let Kobe GOAT happen. Mars Blackmon made them.


Spike Lee made BSPN? :man3:

:man10: :man10: :man10:
Image
User avatar
John3:16

 
Posts: 31319
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: Kobe vs. Jordan at age 34

Postby Paul on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:23 am

Johnnyboy wrote:
Iceberg Slim wrote:For those who don't know, this will be very interesting.

Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan

NBA Titles: 5/4
Conference Titles: 7/4
Olympic Gold Medals: 2/2
Finals MVP's: 2/4
Regular Season MVP's: 1/4
All-Star Game MVP's: 4/2
Finals Points: 937/781
Playoff points: 5,640/4,717
Season Points: 29,484/26,057
All-Star Game Points: 271/211
Team USA Points: 217/256
All-NBA Team Selections, First Team, Second Team, Third Team: 10/8, 2/1, 2/0
All-Defensive Team Selections: First, Second 9/7, 3/0

The only thing Kobe will never match (in my estimation) is Michael's final's MVP's, regular season MVP's, and that one DPOY award Mike snagged back in 88'. Otherwise, at 34 Kobe edge's him in the numbers. If Kobe goes for 7, and wins 2 Finals MVP's in the process, where does he rank amongst the GOAT?


The real comparison should be with games played, not age. MJ achieved much more in less games.

Bingo! Slim is a cheater.
User avatar
Paul
Clublakers Rep: Germany/Poland
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:40 am
Location: Germany

Next

Return to NBA Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.