Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Pimpeasy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:54 am

By virtue of comparison. I'm just glad he recognizes the legitimacy of a full season :jam2:

LeBron Believes Lakers Didn't Give Mike Brown 'Fair Shake'
Nov 10, 2012 11:45 AM EST

LeBron James played under Mike Brown for several seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers and was surprised by his sudden firing as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers after a 1-4 start.

"I think it's unfortunate," James said Friday. "I just don't think he got a fair shake, honestly. With the shortened season last year, and five games into this year, he didn't really get a full season."

James was publicly silent about the fate of Brown after the Cavaliers were eliminated in the 2010 NBA Playoffs.

"I've got a lot to say, but I'm not going to say it right now," said James. "I wish him the best, but I just think it's unfortunate and it's just, you know, how the league is. They can do what they want to do."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... Fair_Shake
A dialog captured between real cav fans…

Cavs Fan 11: “I'm posting on my Iphone from the 480 Bridge......anyone have any good news?”
Cavs Fan 23: “The Lakers aren't losing Odom and Artest is way better than Ariza.”
Cavs Fan11: “alright, I'm jumping. Good luck next summer”
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Weezy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:02 pm

Eh, did he really? I don't put an asterisk on it, a title is a title, nobody gives Duncan an asterisk for his first. The season was shortened( by only 20 games though), but the playoffs were the same, still had to fight hard to win, and the best team won.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Kasumi on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:07 pm

^^^ +1

If anything, he thinks he put an exclamation on the title since they were able to win despite it being a shortened season.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Pimpeasy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:45 pm

Weezy wrote:Eh, did he really? I don't put an asterisk on it, a title is a title, nobody gives Duncan an asterisk for his first. The season was shortened( by only 20 games though), but the playoffs were the same, still had to fight hard to win, and the best team won.



Disagree. Shortened seasons change basketball dynamics across the board including the play-offs. Preparation, physical fitness, injuries, timing (compressed schedule) have impacts on the game. Phil Jackson who has credibility in this area gave 99 an asterisk and he's absolutely right. If shortened season's don't qualify then nothing does.

"Anybody who was around basketball in '99 knows it was entirely an aberration," Jackson said. "Not that (the Spurs) didn't deserve it ... but that's an asterisk." - Phil Jackson


http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html

Also I don't post here much but I'm curious as to the process of becoming a moderator is it based on the size of the donation. If so I'm loaded. :mhihi:
A dialog captured between real cav fans…

Cavs Fan 11: “I'm posting on my Iphone from the 480 Bridge......anyone have any good news?”
Cavs Fan 23: “The Lakers aren't losing Odom and Artest is way better than Ariza.”
Cavs Fan11: “alright, I'm jumping. Good luck next summer”
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby GoldHammish on Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:08 pm

Stretching....
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:14 pm

even if the lakers somehow won last season i wouldve given it an asterisk as well
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Pimpeasy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:44 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:even if the lakers somehow won last season i wouldve given it an asterisk as well


I'm encouraged by the 2012 asterisk title. Remember after the 99 asterisk title we ran off 3 Championships in a row. Just saying lol
A dialog captured between real cav fans…

Cavs Fan 11: “I'm posting on my Iphone from the 480 Bridge......anyone have any good news?”
Cavs Fan 23: “The Lakers aren't losing Odom and Artest is way better than Ariza.”
Cavs Fan11: “alright, I'm jumping. Good luck next summer”
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Phil XI on Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:02 pm

We ALL know '99 and '12 were asterisk championships. This debate ended months ago with me winning. Now we're disputing it again? Move along, nothing to see here. /thread
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby ramsay13 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Doesnt matter cause its a title. In my opinion it should count more cause if a player gets injured they have to be either rushed back or come back with a bum leg.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Weezy on Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:31 pm

I'm not going to say it's not a little easier to win a title in a shortened season, it helps older teams not wear out like they might have, and it keeps young teams even fresher. That said, it's still a title, nobody officially puts an asterisk on it in the record books, decades from now nobody will remember the titles with asterisks, they will just count as championships won. Do they put asterisks on championships won by the Lakers and Celtics in the early days of the NBA when there were like 8 to 12 teams or whatever it was? No, they don't, those banners hang in Boston, and they count those early Lakers championships in our total, the same as all the other ones. Personally, I don't think those championships were as hard to win, and I don't think the shortened season ones were as hard to win, but I still don't count them any less. Also, I highly doubt if we'd won the championship last year any of us here would seriously put an asterisk on it or treat it like any less of an accomplishment, despite anyone saying they would, I don't believe you. :mhihi:
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Pimpeasy on Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:49 am

Weezy I agree it's not in the official books but my friend you can and should liken it to an unspoken truth. ;-) Similiar to the Rockets winning titles solely on the basis that MJ retired for a couple of yrs, or MJ winning titles on the basis of Magic, Bird, and Isiah getting old, or the Lakers losing to Boston in 08 because Bynum and Ariza DNP due to injury and Gasol had yet to play a full season with us. ;-)

I don't think the titles won in the 40's and 50's were easier, they were likely just as hard because of the similarities or "equal talent" levels during those days. Basically you had (for lack of a better thought) a group of "white men who couldn't jump" + Bill Russell who was sort of an outlier.

Rest assured if we had won last year everyone and their mama would have given it an asterisk not because they hate LA but because Kobe would have tied MJ. My math tells me that LA (down to our day) wins titles on average once every 3 yrs but if you assign asterisks to those 40's, 50's, and 60's titles and count only the titles won starting in the 70's LA would leap frog Boston by 1/2 a dozen. (Boston 6 - LA 11)

I guess I'm really saying that I believe in Karma and Destiny - lol. I'm OK with the unspoken or should I say spoken truth at my local barbershop that Lebron has an asterisk title. Now should he decide to join LA in 2014 then I reserve the right to change my opinion. lol
A dialog captured between real cav fans…

Cavs Fan 11: “I'm posting on my Iphone from the 480 Bridge......anyone have any good news?”
Cavs Fan 23: “The Lakers aren't losing Odom and Artest is way better than Ariza.”
Cavs Fan11: “alright, I'm jumping. Good luck next summer”
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby dj vitus on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:33 am

Weezy wrote:Eh, did he really? I don't put an asterisk on it, a title is a title, nobody gives Duncan an asterisk for his first. The season was shortened( by only 20 games though), but the playoffs were the same, still had to fight hard to win, and the best team won.

I think a lot of people did. Phil Jackson (if I remember correctly) said it in an interview once.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Weezy on Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:25 pm

Pimpeasy wrote:Weezy I agree it's not in the official books but my friend you can and should liken it to an unspoken truth. ;-) Similiar to the Rockets winning titles solely on the basis that MJ retired for a couple of yrs, or MJ winning titles on the basis of Magic, Bird, and Isiah getting old, or the Lakers losing to Boston in 08 because Bynum and Ariza DNP due to injury and Gasol had yet to play a full season with us. ;-)


You seriously count the Rockets championships less because MJ retired? You think he really would have won 8 titles in a row? These things you are listing are not reasons to put asterisks on titles, they are just things that happen that are part of the game. The Lakers lost some Finals due to key player injury in the 80's, nobody doesn't count whoever won instead of them. And you reference our loss to Boston in 08 as not as big a deal because Bynum was out and Ariza barely came back? So does that mean our title in 09 has an asterisk because Garnett was injured and we only had to beat the Magic? Does our title in 2010 have an asterisk because Perkins got injured for the last 2 games? I don't buy into this line of reasoning at all, you could try and take something away from every single champion, every single year by thinking of some injury, or a badly reffed game, or tons of other things, but those are all just part of the game, never takes away from the title. Hell Wade was given a parade to the free throw line in '06, some of the worst phantom calls I've ever seen, nobody is saying that title doesn't count though, and I could go on and on and on with examples like that.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby jimbo327 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:19 pm

last year, it definitely favored the young team. they jammed those games in so tight, the olders definitely got tired. They had like back to back to back games, and most teams had stretched which they played like 5 games in 7 nights.

I'm not going to get into the whole debate about astericks or not. I don't care. A ring is a ring. But game scheduling definitely impacted every team, and the younger team had a better chance of recovering.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Pimpeasy on Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:28 pm

Weezy wrote: You seriously count the Rockets championships less because MJ retired? You think he really would have won 8 titles in a row? These things you are listing are not reasons to put asterisks on titles, they are just things that happen that are part of the game. The Lakers lost some Finals due to key player injury in the 80's, nobody doesn't count whoever won instead of them. And you reference our loss to Boston in 08 as not as big a deal because Bynum was out and Ariza barely came back? So does that mean our title in 09 has an asterisk because Garnett was injured and we only had to beat the Magic? Does our title in 2010 have an asterisk because Perkins got injured for the last 2 games? I don't buy into this line of reasoning at all, you could try and take something away from every single champion, every single year by thinking of some injury, or a badly reffed game, or tons of other things, but those are all just part of the game, never takes away from the title. Hell Wade was given a parade to the free throw line in '06, some of the worst phantom calls I've ever seen, nobody is saying that title doesn't count though, and I could go on and on and on with examples like that.


Valid points on the injuries but Bynum wasn't full strength in 09 or 10 so it balances out. As for the Rockets, absolutely they would have lost to MJ's Bulls. Houston had players that could win a game or two but over a 7 game series MJ and Pip would have created distance.

Remember an asterisk is just basically something notable or a footnote. 99 was notable, 94 & 95 was notable, and clearly 2012 was notable. Even if you disagree with the notion the definition is on point.
A dialog captured between real cav fans…

Cavs Fan 11: “I'm posting on my Iphone from the 480 Bridge......anyone have any good news?”
Cavs Fan 23: “The Lakers aren't losing Odom and Artest is way better than Ariza.”
Cavs Fan11: “alright, I'm jumping. Good luck next summer”
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby strikemode14 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:33 pm

I think people are kind of missing the point. Even if you think it was an asterik season what lebron said in those comments doesn't mean he is saying it was an asterik on it not even close lol.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby KJ MonK on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:46 pm

An asterisk doesnt change the fact that Boston blew a 3-2 lead and the Heat beat everyone in their way, including a fully healthy (u counting maynor?) Thunder team, persevering through an injury to their 3rd option DURING the playoff run... even in a full season the Bulls probably wouldn't have beat the Heat with Rose, w/e
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:15 pm

An asterisk?.... really? What if we would have won last year.... do you concede that Kobe wouldn't have caught Michael or exceeded Magic in Championships? I'll bet not....

Miami won it.... and no one helped them.... they exceeded in these difficult conditions you believe in..... the same one's everyone had to play in...
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:39 am

I always thought that Phil's comment was to piss off the Spurs, who were the defending champs in his first season with us. THere may be some truth to it, in that it takes more management of chemistry and health over an 82 game season, than a shortened one. ANd Phil is the master of that kind of management.

But outside of that, a ring is a ring. It's true that a different kind of team arises out of a tumultuous short season, like the young athletic teams that made the finals last year. But those teams were the best of the shortened season, and Miami was the best of the two.

The argument for an asterisk says that if it wouldn't have been for the shortened season, Miami and OKC wouldn't have been in the finals. I'm not so sure that I believe that. I'm much more inclined to put an asterisk on the 06 title, in that if it wasn't for all of those calls in favor of Dwade, they wouldn't have won.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby DarthRekal on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:49 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:even if the lakers somehow won last season i wouldve given it an asterisk as well

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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby dmaul on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:21 pm

If a shortened season really benefitted some team that normally wouldn't have won the championship, we'd have to think about what was different about that season, to quantify that asterisk. In the case of 99 and 12, I'd say the best team in the league won, so there's no aberration whatsoever. Just like how people complain about the refereeing and what not. In the end, the best teams overcome these little details and beat everyone else.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby trodgers on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:48 am

GoldHammish wrote:Stretching....

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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby frankrj on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:27 am

Pimpeasy wrote:
Weezy wrote:Eh, did he really? I don't put an asterisk on it, a title is a title, nobody gives Duncan an asterisk for his first. The season was shortened( by only 20 games though), but the playoffs were the same, still had to fight hard to win, and the best team won.



Disagree. Shortened seasons change basketball dynamics across the board including the play-offs. Preparation, physical fitness, injuries, timing (compressed schedule) have impacts on the game. Phil Jackson who has credibility in this area gave 99 an asterisk and he's absolutely right. If shortened season's don't qualify then nothing does.

"Anybody who was around basketball in '99 knows it was entirely an aberration," Jackson said. "Not that (the Spurs) didn't deserve it ... but that's an asterisk." - Phil Jackson


http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html
Also I don't post here much but I'm curious as to the process of becoming a moderator is it based on the size of the donation. If so I'm loaded. :mhihi:



We can go farther than that. Let's put the 90s and 2000 in asterisks too. In the late 70s and 80s (when I started watching), playoff games were played back to back on the road. So you can't use the physical fitness, rest, excuse. Every team had to overcome the same conditions as another.
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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:26 am

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Re: Lebron Just Put An Asterisk On His Title

Postby halekulani on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:09 am

if people are going to be so bold as to put an asterisk on the spurs, lbj should probably fall under the same headline.

fwiw, duncan's career >>> lbj's so far and even he has an asterisk as the greatest PF of all time
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