Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby CGrand81 on Fri May 03, 2013 7:31 pm

Well deserved, 28-8-7 on 56 percent is hard to argue, just destroyed everyone, the guy is definitely in his prime.

But the MVP award is always a debate on what it means. If you take it literally then Value is the key term, but IMO and how it has been given out it the past, it goes to the best player on the best team. 4 in 5 years is damn impressive.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Brando on Fri May 03, 2013 7:47 pm

Weezy wrote:I have zero issues with his Cleveland MVPs, that is my definition, he carried those teams. I have no real problem
with these either as it fits the historic criteria, it's just funny that the criteria can change to fit LeBron. It was guys who make their team go with Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron in Cleveland, and Rose, now it's back to best player on best team. It's also funny to me still that the day he chose Miami the entire media was saying over and over "well he just gave up ever winning MVP awards again, you can't be MVP with another top 5 player next to you and on a superteam". They also said he could never be Jordan now because he left to join great players instead of staying and winning in Cleveland, which was a stupid thing to say as Jordan had a lot of help, but they did say it for at least months. And here we are 3 years later and they forgot all about that.

Sums it up I've been telling everyone this it amazes me how people change their minds all of a sudden and forget...

LeBron's days of winning MVP were over the day he chose to go ring chasing at age 25 with his super team and now people continue to look at his team like the 05-06 Lakers minus Kobe.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby thkthebest on Fri May 03, 2013 8:21 pm

Weezy wrote:I have zero issues with his Cleveland MVPs, that is my definition, he carried those teams. I have no real problem
with these either as it fits the historic criteria, it's just funny that the criteria can change to fit LeBron. It was guys who make their team go with Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron in Cleveland, and Rose, now it's back to best player on best team. It's also funny to me still that the day he chose Miami the entire media was saying over and over "well he just gave up ever winning MVP awards again, you can't be MVP with another top 5 player next to you and on a superteam". They also said he could never be Jordan now because he left to join great players instead of staying and winning in Cleveland, which was a stupid thing to say as Jordan had a lot of help, but they did say it for at least months. And here we are 3 years later and they forgot all about that.

Changing criteria?

Nash:
04-05: Best record in the NBA.
05-06: 4th best record in the league. Still elite.

Dirk:
06-07: Best record in the NBA.

Kobe:
07-08: Third best record in the NBA. This team was more about the second-half of the season though with Gasol.

LeBron:
09-10: Best record in the NBA.
10-11: Best record in the NBA.

Rose:
11-12: Best record in the NBA.

Of the seasons that you just mentioned, 5 out of 7 teams had the best record in the NBA. I'm sure if you go back to the second half of the season for Kobe's MVP, the Lakers also had the best record in the NBA.

The MVP has almost always been about production, impact, AND wins.

Also, people thought LeBron wouldn't be able to win the MVP award because that's what happened to Kobe and Shaq. I actually thought something like that would happen too, but the situations are different. Kobe and Shaq couldn't win the MVP when they played together because the votes were split between the two. The same thing isn't happening with LeBron and Wade because LeBron has clearly been the #1 guy on that team. The #1 guy is not Wade. He's not even 1b, and even he admitted that. Actually, during their first season together when it was kind of iffy who would be "the man", LeBron didn't win MVP and they couldn't coexist. Gradually, LeBron's sheer talent over Wade's became more and more apparent, and Wade had to take the backseat. He had to learn how to play off LeBron because LeBron was that much better (and actually, people don't mention that enough about Wade even though he's still a complete douchebag). Once again, this didn't happen with Kobe and Shaq. When Kobe wasn't in his prime, Shaq won his first MVP. When Shaq started declining, he should have taken a backseat, but he didn't. If he did, then yea, I could see Kobe winning more MVPs and maybe even more rings. That didn't happen though.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Weezy on Fri May 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Mainly I meant changing criteria in that it used to be big men, guards, whoever was the best, but since like 05 with Nash it's been kinda about the player who has an entire offense run through him and fills up the stat sheet, points, assists especially (Nash, Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, Rose all fit that). It's only players of this type really considered, LeBron, Durant, Paul, Melo, Kobe's always toward the end of the list too, you don't see a lot of different player styles up for the award. Maybe it's just that there are no Shaqs, Duncans, and Garnetts anymore, I dunno. Nice stats backing up your point though, can't really argue with that and appreciate seeing it backed up with facts, makes it easier to take and ease my Lebron hate lol. And like I said I agree for the most part, historically it's been best player on best team, I guess I just don't agree with that definition of most valuable.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby thkthebest on Fri May 03, 2013 8:44 pm

I agree with you in that the MVP award doesn't always go to the most valuable. At least, there are some MVP awards that I definitely don't agree with. Iverson and Rose come to mind immediately.

LeBron just doesn't have much competition. Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan are all top 10 players of all-time. Then, you add in KG (top 20) and Dirk with some appearances by players like T-Mac (32/6.5/5.5). LeBron would not win 4 out of 5 in that era. Currently, you take a look at the players in their primes. Is there anybody with even a top 10 potential? Top 20? Lol. Right now, it's LeBron...then Durant...then who?

I wouldn't call the league "weak", but there just isn't as many dominant players right now.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Rooscooter on Fri May 03, 2013 8:52 pm

^^The MVP has been somewhat of a marketing tool for the league for years. Kobe's Colorado incident foiled his chance on more than one that's for sure.

As for the league being weak... the mid 90's were a similar period that lacked all time greats IMHO... the "names" from that period don't really hold up to other eras.

To this MVP or any of LeBron's for that matter..... I'm not sure how anyone can realistically argue them. Like the guy or don't but he's got a game like few that have ever played. To top it off... he seems to understand what is important now and he's gained confidence in his ability to finish games too. This is his 4th and only significant injury will keep him from 5 or 6 IMHO....
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby noobiew on Fri May 03, 2013 10:13 pm

Not only the MVP, Lebron most likely gonna win another Championship ring and Final MVP also this year.

:man5:

Lebron deserved the award but he's still a douche.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri May 03, 2013 11:59 pm

Not sure how anyone could debate this ... He's the best player in the league and had a ridiculous season efficiency wise

That being said , the fact Miami has a nearly perfect roster to surround him is barely talked about by medias ... which is laughable
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat May 04, 2013 12:39 am

Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 03 May
Asked Battier today about how he would change award voting. He said it should be 1/3 writers, 1/3 players, 1/3 coaches. Makes sense.



Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/tag/miami_ ... z2SJ7KPYe8


Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 03 May
Battier also said he believed Kobe Bryant would have won more than 1 MVP if voters liked his personality more.



Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/tag/miami_ ... z2SJ7TCC9P
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby KB24 on Sat May 04, 2013 3:00 am

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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat May 04, 2013 4:15 am

Well Bron's teammates have been pretty efficient themselves, too bad no one thought they cancelled him out or argued about having too much talent....

Dwayne average 21.ppg a game 5 and 5 shooting 52 % for the field

Chris Bosh averaged 16.6ppg and 6 rb on 53% shooting

Post season for Bosh is pretty similar 12.8 on 53% shooting
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sat May 04, 2013 8:20 am

abeer3 wrote:how silly is the drose mvp going to look twenty years from now?

and I agree with others: it's not even close. I like Durant much more than LeBron, but it's not close. I'm as big a kobe supporter as I think is reasonable, and it's laughable to compare the two at this point.

I hate saying it, and I still think he's a coward for joining forces with wade and bosh instead of competing against wade like a real man would have done, but facts are facts.

Pretty much this.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Pig Miller on Sat May 04, 2013 10:45 am

there are only 2 guys that i recall in my lifetime being undefendable: shaq and lebron. next tier would be jordan and kobe.

i'm trying to understand how you would slow down lebron and unless you have someone as big and quicker than him to guard him, it seems like a lost cause until his physical gifts start to deteriorate.

or if his team starts to fall apart (old guys retiring, not being able to keep their slew of 3 point shooters).
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Weezy on Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 am

To be clear, I'll start off by saying LeBron deserved the award this season. I don't like the crap that the one guy who voted for Melo is taking though, as if voting against LeBron is just wrong, as if all the other writers knew they better not go against the established guy or look dumb. That's what I mean by this award feels predetermined, writers that probably barely watch LeBron vote for him because he's LeBron and he's the popular choice. I think if voters really sat and thought on it then Melo would have MORE than one 1st place vote. This is strictly a regular season award, and Melo had a fantastic one. When he was out the Knicks sucked, when he was back he was putting up 40 point games to end the seasons and getting his team to the 2nd seed.

The guy who voted for Melo said "Secondly, this isn’t the Best Player in the Game award, it’s the Most Valuable Player award, and I think what Anthony accomplished this season was worthy of my vote. He led the Knicks to their first division title in 19 years." and I agree completely with him. You shouldn't HAVE to vote for LeBron out of peer pressure or fear of taking heat for voting for someone else that's deserving. I personally think Melo was right there with LeBron in being deserving. Here's the rest of the Melo voters column, that he had to write it to defend himself because people were questioning what wrong win him and what his motive is, is a joke.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/05/05/yes-voted-carmelo-anthony-for-mvp-and-for-good-reason/Yo08ZgzGaxzlt9KF0JDfqM/story.html
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby davriver290 on Mon May 06, 2013 11:58 am

ehhh, he deserves it. He's been pretty consistent, plays good defense, and keeps his team constantly involved in offense. To top it off, he's pretty dominant. I'm not the biggest Lebron fan, but give the man credit. He deserves the damn award.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:08 pm

The flack the guy who didn't vote for Lebron is getting shows and proves that this award is tainted. Before anyone runs in and says I am hating on LBJ..... I did not say he didn't deserve the award. However, I have heard the writer called a moron, he should have his vote taken away, he doesn't know what he is doing and yada yada yada because he voted against the peer pressured norm. All this does is reenforce my opinion that the media heads are going to go with whatever agenda is pushed by ESPN. Most Valuable does NOT mean best player in the game. I heard the dude on Sportsnation say this, "people talk about Lebrons teammates but shouldn't knock Lebron because his teammates are really good." Um, the argument for MVP was pretty much a team could not have the same or equal success without the player or with the player the team has gone above and beyond expectations. I don't even hate Lebron as much as I use to because it isn't him that makes all this it is the talking heads of the great sports nation. I mean these guys actually said that Lebron deserves all the awards except most improved. The sad part is I really think they were serious. Shane Battier was right it should be 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 instead of all media because the media is a joke plain and simple.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:18 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:The flack the guy who didn't vote for Lebron is getting shows and proves that this award is tainted. Before anyone runs in and says I am hating on LBJ..... I did not say he didn't deserve the award. However, I have heard the writer called a moron, he should have his vote taken away, he doesn't know what he is doing and yada yada yada because he voted against the peer pressured norm. All this does is reenforce my opinion that the media heads are going to go with whatever agenda is pushed by ESPN. Most Valuable does NOT mean best player in the game. I heard the dude on Sportsnation say this, "people talk about Lebrons teammates but shouldn't knock Lebron because his teammates are really good." Um, the argument for MVP was pretty much a team could not have the same or equal success without the player or with the player the team has gone above and beyond expectations. I don't even hate Lebron as much as I use to because it isn't him that makes all this it is the talking heads of the great sports nation. I mean these guys actually said that Lebron deserves all the awards except most improved. The sad part is I really think they were serious. Shane Battier was right it should be 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 instead of all media because the media is a joke plain and simple.


Oh my garsh really? But this is the exact argument they've used against certain players in debate of them not deserving the MVP. I don't know what to think anymore, I think I'm in the twilight zone **looks around**
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:23 pm

^exactly. When some talk about the forever changing criteria that is what we, at least I am for sure, talking about. Last year I said that Tony Parker deserved some conversation as an MVP and the overall response was "look he has Duncan, Manu and a great bench." To let it be told by the pundits Lebron plays with the 05 Lakers squad or better still the WIzards from any year. lol. Criteria changes to fit the agendas.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Iceberg Slim on Mon May 06, 2013 8:28 pm

I'm wouldn't call the guy an idiot for voting for Carmelo but, let's look at this point...

120 of your colleagues got it right. And you're the lone guy who simply wanted to vote for the dark horse candidate. There's a good chance out of the 120 media types they hold the same philosophy he did. But Lebron's year was so ridiculously incredible, it convinced them that he was the unanimous undisputed winner...and you chose the dark horse. In 2011, Tom Brady's season made him the only unanimous MVP ever. And he absolutely deserved the honor. And this situation is no different. There wasn't a close second. Depending on who you're discussing the topic with, Melo might've placed 3rd behind Tony Parker or Chris Paul. Is this a big deal? Not at all. We knew a long time ago Bron was going to get it.

But it would've been cool...especially when it's deserved.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:37 pm

^You couldn't get 120/120 people to agree on anything more often than not especially something as opinionated as the none cut and dry MVP award. Again, if you are arguing "Best in the game today" then sure lets shoot LBJ the BIGT award. However, like I said, MVP isn't about the best player on the best team.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby thkthebest on Mon May 06, 2013 8:37 pm

The dude deserves flack because he voted for Carmelo. :man10:

Even though I really disagree, at least Durant would be understandable. Carmelo though? :man3:
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:42 pm

thkthebest wrote:The dude deserves flack because he voted for Carmelo. :man10:

Even though I really disagree, at least Durant would be understandable. Carmelo though? :man3:


What's wrong with voting for Carmelo? He got his team to the playoffs, got them to a winning record and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby thkthebest on Mon May 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Jazzygirl205 wrote:
thkthebest wrote:The dude deserves flack because he voted for Carmelo. :man10:

Even though I really disagree, at least Durant would be understandable. Carmelo though? :man3:


What's wrong with voting for Carmelo? He got his team to the playoffs, got them to a winning record and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching.

Your statement is so vague that I can apply it to basically anybody that's an all-star. MVP is a whole different stratosphere.

Kobe got the Lakers to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (30.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.5 apg in April).

Deron got the Nets to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (24.6 ppg, 8.4 apg on 52.4% shooting and in only 33.8 mpg).

Curry got the Warriors to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (25.4 ppg, 8.1 apg).

You're thinking all-star. I'm thinking MVP. Carmelo has no case for MVP. He spent two months shooting 40% from the field. He averages as many turnovers as assists. He missed 15 games. Knicks are only 4.7 points better with him on the court as opposed to Durant's 8.9 (near double) or LeBron's 15.3 (more than triple).

Do you really think Carmelo has an argument? Even if you were to even think that Carmelo is somehow more valuable than Durant, a valuable player doesn't miss games. Would you rather have Durant for 81 games or Carmelo for 67?

I really can't think of how Carmelo is above Durant, much less LeBron.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby odom1year on Mon May 06, 2013 9:12 pm

Best player with the best team record. No argument here.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 9:13 pm

:jam2:
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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