Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Mon May 06, 2013 9:21 pm

thkthebest wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:
thkthebest wrote:The dude deserves flack because he voted for Carmelo. :man10:

Even though I really disagree, at least Durant would be understandable. Carmelo though? :man3:


What's wrong with voting for Carmelo? He got his team to the playoffs, got them to a winning record and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching.

Your statement is so vague that I can apply it to basically anybody that's an all-star. MVP is a whole different stratosphere.

Kobe got the Lakers to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (30.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 7.5 apg in April).

Deron got the Nets to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (24.6 ppg, 8.4 apg on 52.4% shooting and in only 33.8 mpg).

Curry got the Warriors to the playoffs, got them a winning record, and went on a tear when the postseason was approaching (25.4 ppg, 8.1 apg).

You're thinking all-star. I'm thinking MVP. Carmelo has no case for MVP. He spent two months shooting 40% from the field. He averages as many turnovers as assists. He missed 15 games. Knicks are only 4.7 points better with him on the court as opposed to Durant's 8.9 (near double) or LeBron's 15.3 (more than triple).

Do you really think Carmelo has an argument? Even if you were to even think that Carmelo is somehow more valuable than Durant, a valuable player doesn't miss games. Would you rather have Durant for 81 games or Carmelo for 67?

I really can't think of how Carmelo is above Durant, much less LeBron.


In other words how was his season any different than these guys, that makes him so undeserving? This award is about the most valuable player to their team, you take Carmelo from the Knicks they go nowhere.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Weezy on Mon May 06, 2013 10:24 pm

The guy who voted for Melo explained himself well, did nobody read his article? He had a great season, he got the Knicks to their first division title in 19 years, they went from 7th in the East to 2nd this season, and he said he believes the Knicks were a lottery team without Melo. Melo also tore it up in April when this was voted on, he was averaging like 37 ppg, while LeBron sat out "injured" (resting) and his team kept winning. Are the Heat even close to a lottery team without LeBron? No way, they go from first to maybe 2nd to 4th. The writer also said he was "flabbergasted" to find out he was the only one out of the 121 to vote LeBron, he didn't do it to vote for a dark horse, he did it because it was legitimately his pick. But he went against the crowd so he must be crazy right, having your own legit opinion makes you dumb now lol. Again, LeBron deserved the award, but I don't get this idea that voting for Melo is insane. My personal MVP voting would go LeBron, Melo, Durant, CP3, Kobe, so yeah I fail to see why this one vote is such a travesty. Durant had a great season, but I wouldn't say better than last season really, and Westbrook seems to matter to that team almost as much as Durant, sorry, but that's how I see it.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 pm

^ I personally think the guy that voted against the grain for Melo may very well be the first free thinker for the MVP vote I have seen in a long time. I really credit all this to the ESPN machine and over-abundance of LebronTV. It has gotten so bad I am no longer even blaiming LBJ or hating him for it. I could see if the writer voted for Brooke Lopez because he doesn't think anyone should be get 100% of the MVP votes. That isn't what happened and like you said the guy explained himself very well. I even agreed with his point. Of course I should excuse myself from having an opinion as my resident fan pointed out I am one of the morons who said Kobe could win the MVP for his play this year.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby Weezy on Mon May 06, 2013 10:48 pm

If we were going off purely the definition of "most valuable" Kobe would be my vote as well, but not by the established criteria of best player on best team. Without Kobe we might have been last place in the West or close to it this season, that's how much he carried us, that to me is the very definition of most valuable, but that's not really what the award means or has ever meant. They really should change it to "best player", or "most impressive season statistically and record-wise award".
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue May 07, 2013 6:01 am

We'll see if his posteason success matchs his regular season dominance at the end of his career ... Nash has as many regular season MVPs as Kobe and Shaq combined .... but trails by 9 in NBA titles

A good number of regular season MVPs has never won ish in the playoffs ... to dominate and win in the playoffs is a far better measurement of greatness... Lebron already failed in 2010 and 2011 with the 2011 NBA Finals being the biggest choke ever by a best player in the league at that time

If Lebron ends up with 7-8 MVPs but only 3 NBA titles , should he be considered top 3 of all time ? I don't think so
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Re: Lebron wins 4th MVP in last 5 years

Postby JGC on Tue May 07, 2013 7:57 am

Weezy wrote:If we were going off purely the definition of "most valuable" Kobe would be my vote as well, but not by the established criteria of best player on best team. Without Kobe we might have been last place in the West or close to it this season, that's how much he carried us, that to me is the very definition of most valuable, but that's not really what the award means or has ever meant. They really should change it to "best player", or "most impressive season statistically and record-wise award".


I think you'll run in to the same issues with 'best player'. The same guy would vote for Melo (which I personally have no problem with) and say he's the best because without them they would not have made the playoffs.

If you use words like "impressive", that too will run in to issues. People will downplay things like rebounds for bigger players and assists for guards (which they already do). Or they'll say they shot more efficiently because they have better teammates than the other guy, etc.

At the crux of the discussion is, IMO, would it be better if the MVP award was based purely on stats (like scoring title) where there is absolutely no room for discussion? The good thing is that we would all know who the MVP is. The bad thing is, people would then go back and debate whether or not that stat (or group of stats) actually defines MVP and we'd get back in to the whole discussion about what is an MVP again.

Personally, I like that there is subjectivity and some room for interpretation. I like that it can mean slightly different things to different people. I think that is a GOOD thing and probably reflects reality since even a group of Laker fans can't seem to agree on a single definition. And that's why you take votes across a large group of people and in the end you should get a crop of candidates that, across all definitions, is very accurate.

In fact, it's so accurate that anyone who follows the NBA with regularity can quite easily predict the winner and even the runner ups. The good thing there is that means the definition, while being subjective, is pretty consistent.
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