Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby revgen on Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:07 pm

MJ
Kobe
Jerry West
George Gervin
Dwayne Wade
Clyde Drexler

Are 6 players who are/were better than Miller.

Even Ray Allen has achieved more in his career than Miller has.

The idea of Reggie Miller being a top 3 SG all-time is frankly ridiculous.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby 432J on Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:20 pm

dj vitus wrote:Mitch Richmond? :man3: He put up some good numbers, but he just never seemed like he cared about winning. Just got his 22 and went home to collect his paycheck. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what I saw in him.

I'll take Reggie Miller who puts his heart and soul on the line every night over Mitch "I don't mind losing as long as I get to score a lot" Richmond any day.

richmond was actually a star on some pretty lousy kings teams of the 90s. nowhere near being an all time great or even top 10 but he was definitely a stud back in the day.

love seeing him get that ring in '02 even though he was in phil's veteran doghouse for the whole season
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:46 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Well.... by your logic he ranks below anyone that had anything to do with a championship..... So it should be pretty easy to "slot" him.....

That's not even close to my logic and you know that.


For another thread my friend........ for another thread..... :man1:

In short, in those days, you had no control over who your teammates were and little if any flexibility in getting to a decent situation..... Maravich was trapped on teams studded with scrubs or over the hill has-beens most of his career.... I don't think you can hold that against him..... anymore that you can put someone like Robert Parrish in the HOF on the first ballot because he was on teams with great players 8 to 10 deep...
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:22 pm

I'm not taking away from him what he's done, but look at the career of Chris Paul so far. He's been in a similar situation and while we can all agree he's a fantastic player, he hasn't had enough success for me to put him up there with guys like Magic and Thomas. It takes some luck to get into that ranking, but in my opinion you make your own luck. Magic was paired with Kareem, which some might call luck but I call work. Work on the part of Magic, Kareem, and the Lakers organization.

Maravich was a great player, but to me he's not in the ranks of Jordan and Bryant, that's all. No big deal. I'm not saying he wasn't great or anything like that, just that I put those two above him because they not only matched his statistical production, but accomplished more in the league.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:38 pm

therealdeal wrote:I'm not taking away from him what he's done, but look at the career of Chris Paul so far. He's been in a similar situation and while we can all agree he's a fantastic player, he hasn't had enough success for me to put him up there with guys like Magic and Thomas. It takes some luck to get into that ranking, but in my opinion you make your own luck. Magic was paired with Kareem, which some might call luck but I call work. Work on the part of Magic, Kareem, and the Lakers organization.

Maravich was a great player, but to me he's not in the ranks of Jordan and Bryant, that's all. No big deal. I'm not saying he wasn't great or anything like that, just that I put those two above him because they not only matched his statistical production, but accomplished more in the league.


No problem Real..... forums are for this kind of debates.... I know I'm not in the majority when evaluating "all time greats"..... I've fought the battle several times here alone.... and a lot in "analog" discussions over adult beverages over the years.... I wouldn't put him in the conversation with Kobe and Jordan..... but he is a fairly close 3rd IMO.... he revolutionized the 2 guard position much like Oscar Robinson did with the point guard.... Just on mediocre teams in small towns most of his career.... His college statistics are crazy for a division 1 school.... Much better than Kareem's in scoring in roughly the same time period.... He's a "forgotten great" IMHO.... maybe we should start a thread about that.....
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby therealdeal on Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:43 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I'm not taking away from him what he's done, but look at the career of Chris Paul so far. He's been in a similar situation and while we can all agree he's a fantastic player, he hasn't had enough success for me to put him up there with guys like Magic and Thomas. It takes some luck to get into that ranking, but in my opinion you make your own luck. Magic was paired with Kareem, which some might call luck but I call work. Work on the part of Magic, Kareem, and the Lakers organization.

Maravich was a great player, but to me he's not in the ranks of Jordan and Bryant, that's all. No big deal. I'm not saying he wasn't great or anything like that, just that I put those two above him because they not only matched his statistical production, but accomplished more in the league.


No problem Real..... forums are for this kind of debates.... I know I'm not in the majority when evaluating "all time greats"..... I've fought the battle several times here alone.... and a lot in "analog" discussions over adult beverages over the years.... I wouldn't put him in the conversation with Kobe and Jordan..... but he is a fairly close 3rd IMO.... he revolutionized the 2 guard position much like Oscar Robinson did with the point guard.... Just on mediocre teams in small towns most of his career.... His college statistics are crazy for a division 1 school.... Much better than Kareem's in scoring in roughly the same time period.... He's a "forgotten great" IMHO.... maybe we should start a thread about that.....

I say go for it man. I think that'd be a great thread to have. I think you're right, Maravich is often forgotten as a player but that's just because he didn't have the success that some others have had. If you want to give him his own spot up there in 3rd I think that's perfectly reasonable. I wouldn't put him up at the 2, but he's certainly better than many people know or give him credit for.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Forklift on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:10 pm

Mike Wells of the Indy Star wrote:“When you take Michael Jordan and you take Kobe Bryant out of the discussion, he’s as good as any two-guard that has ever played the game,” Jackson said.


i don't know if i'm reading too closely between the lines, but he said as good as any which to me doesn't mean he is 3rd best, but can be compared against any other top SG if you take away Kobe and MJ.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby revgen on Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:57 pm

Forklift wrote:
Mike Wells of the Indy Star wrote:“When you take Michael Jordan and you take Kobe Bryant out of the discussion, he’s as good as any two-guard that has ever played the game,” Jackson said.


i don't know if i'm reading too closely between the lines, but he said as good as any which to me doesn't mean he is 3rd best, but can be compared against any other top SG if you take away Kobe and MJ.


If Mark Jackson believes that Reggie Miller is "as good as any who've ever played the game" after MJ and Kobe, then he's still wrong. Reggie is not better than Wade, Gervin, Drexler, or West.

Don't get me wrong. Reggie is in the Top 10 all-time among SG's, but he's in the lower half of that order.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Forklift on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:53 pm

revgen wrote:
Forklift wrote:
Mike Wells of the Indy Star wrote:“When you take Michael Jordan and you take Kobe Bryant out of the discussion, he’s as good as any two-guard that has ever played the game,” Jackson said.


i don't know if i'm reading too closely between the lines, but he said as good as any which to me doesn't mean he is 3rd best, but can be compared against any other top SG if you take away Kobe and MJ.


If Mark Jackson believes that Reggie Miller is "as good as any who've ever played the game" after MJ and Kobe, then he's still wrong. Reggie is not better than Wade, Gervin, Drexler, or West.

Don't get me wrong. Reggie is in the Top 10 all-time among SG's, but he's in the lower half of that order.


but is he as good as them :man1: . Anyways i'm not saying Reggie is as good as Mark Jackson says he is, but i don't think Mark Jackson meant to say Reggie was 3rd best SG
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Punk-101 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:48 pm

My list:
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Maravich
5. Gervin
6. Drexler
7. Wade
8. Miller
9. Allen
10. Iverson
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby 432J on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:47 pm

Punk-101 wrote:My list:
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Maravich
5. Gervin
6. Drexler
7. Wade
8. Miller
9. Allen
10. Iverson

that is a very accurate list
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:31 pm

432J wrote:
Punk-101 wrote:My list:
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Maravich
5. Gervin
6. Drexler
7. Wade
8. Miller
9. Allen
10. Iverson

that is a very accurate list


I second that.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby thkthebest on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:37 am

Wade should be in everyone's top 5 in my opinion.

I wouldn't put Miller above Allen either.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Congo Cash on Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:35 am

I would switch Iverson and Miller TBH...
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby 432J on Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:07 am

thkthebest wrote:Wade should be in everyone's top 5 in my opinion.

I wouldn't put Miller above Allen either.

i wouldn't put him over gervin yet, but he's not too far off top 5

stick miller at 10 and switch allen and iverson and you got a complete list
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby dj vitus on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:32 am

How about we keep switching Allen, Miller, and Iverson until we get every possible combination and everyone is happy. :man12:
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby nameant on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:35 am

I really don't see how anybody could put Reggie over Ray Allen. Not only did he hit more 3s, but he was a better passer, defender, scorer, athlete, and he won a championship. What am I missing?
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Punk-101 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:49 am

nameant wrote:I really don't see how anybody could put Reggie over Ray Allen. Not only did he hit more 3s, but he was a better passer, defender, scorer, athlete, and he won a championship. What am I missing?

Completely valid points. They are so close to one another in my book. The only reason that I put Reggie over him is the absolute terror the gremlin can be in the clutch. I don't care if we were up 15 with 1:00 left, if Reggie started shooting 30ft 3's, my heart stopped every time. I expected him to make every shot. Ray is no slouch in the clutch either, but Reggie was special.

Ranking Drexler, Wade, and Iverson is tough also. They are similar in many areas with portions of their careers where they were just unstoppable.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby nameant on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:51 am

Sorry if that came off dick-ish btw. :man12:
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Punk-101 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:52 am

:man3: Not at all.

:beer:
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:59 am

I put Wade over Iverson. He has posted similar career stats while having more success, that's not necessarily Iverson's fault but I think a lot of that has to do with character issues as well. Bottom line is that Wade has a Finals MVP and Iverson doesn't.

I'd say my list goes:
Jordan
Bryant
Maravich
West
Gervin
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Allen
Miller
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby TIME on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:27 am

therealdeal wrote:I put Wade over Iverson. He has posted similar career stats while having more success, that's not necessarily Iverson's fault but I think a lot of that has to do with character issues as well. Bottom line is that Wade has a Finals MVP and Iverson doesn't.

I'd say my list goes:
Jordan
Bryant
Maravich
West
Gervin
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Allen
Miller



I love these kinds of discussions / debates.

Some 2 guards that have not been mentioned that should be:

Manu Ginobili
David Thompson
Earl the Pearl Monroe
Joe Dumars
Hal Greer
Drazen Petrovic
T-Mac
Latrell Sprewell (don't laugh)

I don't have either Miller or Ray Allen in my top 10, but if it's best shooters they are both in my top 5.

I'll go:

1. Jordan
2. Kobe

3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Iverson
7. Gervin
8. Ginobili
9. Moncrief
10. Maravich
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:59 pm

Well he did play with him and make the Finals so it's no surprising he said this. Reggie was a terrific player, and is a top 10 shooting guard of all time, but top 3? I don't think so. MJ and Kobe are clearly the two best. After that I'd have Jerry at #3, Wade at #4, and Clyde at #5.
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby gcclaker on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:13 pm

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. Peter Maravich
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Earl Monroe
7. George Gervin
8. Clyde Drexler
9. Sidney Moncrief
10. Manu Ginobili

Respect Miller's game great outside shooting and all but he does not crack my Top Ten either.
No siggie...
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Re: Mark Jackson thinks Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time

Postby dj vitus on Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:22 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:
432J wrote:
Punk-101 wrote:My list:
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Maravich
5. Gervin
6. Drexler
7. Wade
8. Miller
9. Allen
10. Iverson

that is a very accurate list


I second that.

Just wait two seasons and we might have to switch the top two. :man4: :man1:
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