Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:43 am

Hasn't Magic and Bird said multiple times that they would have never thought about teaming up because 1.) They didn't like each other 2.) They liked the battle of trying to beat each other ?
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:51 am

yes, they have. it's just not sporting.

when my buddies and i used to play pickup games, we always knew the talent heirarchy, and we never stacked all the top players on one side. nobody wanted that, not even the top players. why? because it's not sporting. you want to beat the best, not water down the opposition to make life easier.

maybe it's a generational thing, but i find it a bit disgusting. also, for all the lauding of the paycuts, the fact that lebron is going to pull in more from endorsements and investments to offset the salary loss sort of diminishes the "sacrifice".

the larger issue the nba faces if this happens is how to best regulate a market in which the actors don't act in what would be perceived as self-interest. you can't force players to take more money to play for a worse team. and you'll have to adjust rules that are money-based to ones that are talent-based. for example, in the new cba, you can only have two "supermax" guys, i believe (this is one of the reasons harden left okc--i think he could actually make more money in houston). but if guys just opt out of that, you have to create a rule that if you're, say, all-nba, you can't join a team in FA that already has two all-nba players. or something like this. that's incredibly difficult to evalute/legislate, but it would sort of have to happen.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:56 am

abeer3 wrote:you've chosen the wrong argument. i never said he had to stay in cleveland. i said it was a puss move to join with two other top 15 nba players in their prime rather than compete against them. i forgive bosh a bit because he was always best suited to a supporting role. but if james and wade are as good as they say they are, they should have competed against each other. period.

and, yes, i think i do know that magic and bird wouldn't have joined forces. or magic and isiah, or whatever. this stuff was unheard of before 4 years ago.

others can see it their way, but i'll always view lebron's titles with the heat as kind of cheap compared to other all-time greats.


You are bringing up extreme examples. For instance, Bird and Magic are two of the 10 greatest players ever. They had an amazing supporting cast so of course their natural answer is to say they would rather compete against each other. But LeBron joining the Heat isn't as extreme a case because while LeBron was the best player in the league, Wade was a top 5 player but not the 2nd best and Bosh was probably a top 15 player at the time. Magic and Bird were the top 2 players in the league and everyone else was second (prior to Jordan emerging in the late 80's).

I just don't think you can say for SURE that any of those guys wouldn't have done something similar to LeBron had they been in the same situation as him. All the guys you mentioned came into the league and had HOFers left and right. So they were set. LeBron had no one and was in Cleveland and was getting desparate.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:03 am

abeer3 wrote:yes, they have. it's just not sporting.

when my buddies and i used to play pickup games, we always knew the talent heirarchy, and we never stacked all the top players on one side. nobody wanted that, not even the top players. why? because it's not sporting. you want to beat the best, not water down the opposition to make life easier.

maybe it's a generational thing, but i find it a bit disgusting. also, for all the lauding of the paycuts, the fact that lebron is going to pull in more from endorsements and investments to offset the salary loss sort of diminishes the "sacrifice".

the larger issue the nba faces if this happens is how to best regulate a market in which the actors don't act in what would be perceived as self-interest. you can't force players to take more money to play for a worse team. and you'll have to adjust rules that are money-based to ones that are talent-based. for example, in the new cba, you can only have two "supermax" guys, i believe (this is one of the reasons harden left okc--i think he could actually make more money in houston). but if guys just opt out of that, you have to create a rule that if you're, say, all-nba, you can't join a team in FA that already has two all-nba players. or something like this. that's incredibly difficult to evalute/legislate, but it would sort of have to happen.


You're actually comparing the parity of a pick up game with nothing on the line versus players at the highest level who are trying to win championships and establish legacies? :man10:

And you shouldn't worry too much. If all 4 guys agree to take tens of millions less (I just don't see it happening, I really, really don't), they would be going against the grain and common sense. Of course I'm talking about $$$. Money makes the world go round. And most people try to get as much as they can. Just ask Kobe. So I don't think it's a huge issue going forward. 99% of the time, people will go for the money. The hard cap will help eliminate this kind of stuff in the future imo. Of course you can't prevent situations like this if players are willing to take much less. But I just think it's the exception and not the rule. Again, ask Kobe.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Basketball Fan on Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:41 am

I don't get this talk of lack of parity where have you been the last 30 years its the same teams that win it all regardless.

Methods may be different result still the same.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:41 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
You're actually comparing the parity of a pick up game with nothing on the line versus players at the highest level who are trying to win championships and establish legacies? :man10:


yes. and i can laugh at you, too, for not understanding the connection. one of the big reasons we care about sports is that they're a proxy for real honor. i don't believe in hunting with semi-automatic weapons, and i don't believe in three guys with hof aspirations in their prime joining forces in the nba. winning a title is a big deal because it's hard. making it easy diminishes the accomplishment. i'm not very impressed with lebron's titles to date. and i'm REALLY unimpressed with wade's.

And you shouldn't worry too much. If all 4 guys agree to take tens of millions less (I just don't see it happening, I really, really don't), they would be going against the grain and common sense. Of course I'm talking about $$$. Money makes the world go round. And most people try to get as much as they can. Just ask Kobe. So I don't think it's a huge issue going forward. 99% of the time, people will go for the money. The hard cap will help eliminate this kind of stuff in the future imo. Of course you can't prevent situations like this if players are willing to take much less. But I just think it's the exception and not the rule. Again, ask Kobe.


no one saw the three joining up in miami happening...until it did.

and i don't think a hard cap will do it, either. a hard cap would have to be much higher, and pay cuts are relative, anyway. also, i wouldn't put it past riley to a) actually cheat as he has in the past (anthony carter, anyone?) or b) to come up with more trickery to ensure that everyone gets paid somehow on the back end.

the only way to stop this from becoming a blue print is to make it impossible via rules against talent-concentration. it's pretty communist, and i'm not sure how it would actually work, but if this occurs, it means that basketball finances aren't the controlling factor that the cba assumes they are. guys like wade, melo, and lebron have realized that they make more outside the game (and even more when they start racking up titles), and so they can basically flout the traditional notion of just following the money. guys like paul george don't have that option, but they aren't the ones we're concerned about.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:42 am

Basketball Fan wrote:I don't get this talk of lack of parity where have you been the last 30 years its the same teams that win it all regardless.

Methods may be different result still the same.


parity is impossible in the nba. too many teams and too few impact players. but you can have 6 or 7 teams with title shots instead of...one.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:20 am

I wonder what Melo's contract would be in NY vs. MIA?

Miami has no state income tax and the cost of living is probably significantly lower.

In others words....

New York - How much is he actually getting after taxes and all that jazz for his 20 million dollar salary?
Miami - How big is the gap in different from New York if he was making 13-14 million?
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:40 am

The NBA could offset some of the perks of living in a state with no/lower income tax by changing the revenue sharing percentages by state. That way Texas and Florida aren't as enticing.

The CBA tried and failed to implement a Franchise Player tag, which would have kept the big 3 from getting together.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:50 am

State taxes in this economy has become a real issue. The NBA should even out that draw somehow.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby dmaul on Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:17 am

^ I wonder if this no tax thing people always talk about in Florida and Texas is a misnomer. I do know in Texas, if you're a business, you are exempt on the first one million, but you pay taxes on everything after that. I wonder if the same thing applies to personal income tax. So they say there are no taxes because essentially if you're the common man or a small business your revenue would not exceed that certain amount. However, if you're an NBA player you would exceed it. You would just save some money on the first million in income.

In any case, I'm not sure how the next CBA would adjust for this inequity and dissuade players from going to states with no income tax. Just like how could you reasonably prevent players from forming super teams on their own volition, by taking pay cuts or whatever? Then again, I'm sure someone will think of a socialist tactic to even the playing field, just like how the other owners wanted a piece of Jerry Buss' TWC money.

I think the real problem and cause of all this is that there are too many teams, talent too diluted across the league. In the mid-80s I remember there were 23 teams and only four divisions. How great would that be to go back to something like that. Kind of past the point of no return though.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:45 am

Sterns idea of expansion wasn't such a good idea after all.

We're recruiting players from all over the world and still there's not enough talent.

Not enough good coaches to fill the league either.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby bumrusherer on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:17 pm

Would be interesting to watch. They won't hurt our chances of winning, so I would not be that bothered if it happened.

Well within the rules and if they want to take less, fair play to them.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby bumrusherer on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:21 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:The NBA could offset some of the perks of living in a state with no/lower income tax by changing the revenue sharing percentages by state. That way Texas and Florida aren't as enticing.

The CBA tried and failed to implement a Franchise Player tag, which would have kept the big 3 from getting together.

If you go down that route,do you then start changing revenues by standard of living per City? Or revenues of a City?

It's not like our location hasn't had massive advantages over the years.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby dj vitus on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:15 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
abeer3 wrote:I have zero respect for LeBron and wade for showing no competitive spirit in 2010, and i'll have even less for all this time around.

we've been over this before, but guys like kobe, magic, bird, mj...they wouldn't have done this.


You don't know that for sure. Magic came into a great situation and had a stacked team from the get go. Same with Larry Bird. And Jordan had Pippen and Grant a couple of years after he entered the league. Kobe had Shaq then Gasol.


Well, at least Kobe stuck through Smush Parker and the Rudy 3 era. :man1: That lone should be enough to command everyone's respect. :jam2:
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Congo Cash on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Wow, I can't believe some people are defending this... If this happen, the whole Eastern Conference would be pointless, what the [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] is the point of lockout then?
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:35 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Hasn't Magic and Bird said multiple times that they would have never thought about teaming up because 1.) They didn't like each other 2.) They liked the battle of trying to beat each other ?


Yes.... but neither was in a position to team up either. It was part of the narrative of the rivalry.

Magic was teamed up with a better player than himself.... never heard him say he needed to get away from wanting to beat Kareem... :man12:
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:37 pm

This is great news.... it means that we won't get him.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:52 pm

I think the talent pool in the NBA is fantastic. Part of the problem is we have teams in cities that don't deserve one like Milwaukee and Cleveland. A city like Seattle should have a team. Then you will have less issues with stars not wanting to play for a certain team.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Basketball Fan on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:01 pm

abeer3 wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:I don't get this talk of lack of parity where have you been the last 30 years its the same teams that win it all regardless.

Methods may be different result still the same.


parity is impossible in the nba. too many teams and too few impact players. but you can have 6 or 7 teams with title shots instead of...one.



There are 6-7 teams with title shots they just don't get there to actually win it.

I mean this Finals is a prime example

Spurs on the verge of a 5th Title and the Heat on their 4th(won't get it this year though) yet there were people who thought the Thunder, Pacers(ugh), Clippers, Rockets, might get there and didn't.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby John3:16 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:10 pm

Melo might wanna think of joining the Spurs.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Basketball Fan on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:15 pm

I hope he does they won't win a title with him either of those teams can have him.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby sister golden hair on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:30 pm

The analogy someone drew above about playing pick-up ball and having a team of ringers running the court against everyone is the first thing that I thought about when I heard about the possibility of Melo joining the Heat.

You'd have four guys still arguably in their prime -- four-fifths of an Olympic All-Star team - what is the point? How much "help" does anyone need? Where is the sense of competitive spirit?

It's like these guys want things to be easy for them.

One last point: Miami should be careful what is wishes for. Their biggest problem, as is becoming evident in these finals, is lack of consistent rebounding and inability to play high-level defense for 48 minutes. I don't see how Melo comes close to addressing either of those concerns.

I've said for many years now: melo reached his peak as a player during that freshman season at Syracuse. he was a better all-round player back then, particularly in the sense of passing and team play, that he has been since. Like some other great college players -- Ewing comes to mind -- once they become pros they focus almost exclusively on offense and the rest of their game suffers.

Nowadays, Melo is strictly a gunner. I wouldn't even want him on the Lakers and the lakers are starved for talent at the moment.

Adding Melo to Miami would allow them to continue coasting through the weak EC during the RS, but I still question whether they would have enough to beat a really good TEAM. Miami's supporting players haven't shown very well this PS. THAT'S where they need new blood and fresh legs.

But overall, to me the move (if true) not only betrays a lack of confidence in themselves as an organization, but also signals to me a fundamental softness -- a desire to make things as easy as possible. Again, it's like they want things handed to them rather than having to go out and get it.

When I see a group of ringers do that in pick up ball it makes me wonder why they bother playing and I lose all respect for people like that.

Oh, well. Kids these days.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby kenzo on Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:36 am

Rooscooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Hasn't Magic and Bird said multiple times that they would have never thought about teaming up because 1.) They didn't like each other 2.) They liked the battle of trying to beat each other ?


Yes.... but neither was in a position to team up either. It was part of the narrative of the rivalry.

Magic was teamed up with a better player than himself.... never heard him say he needed to get away from wanting to beat Kareem... :man12:

Didn't Magic said something like "If Chicago gets the no.1 pick im staying in school"? He wanted Kareem from day one.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby LooN3y on Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:55 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
abeer3 wrote:I have zero respect for LeBron and wade for showing no competitive spirit in 2010, and i'll have even less for all this time around.

we've been over this before, but guys like kobe, magic, bird, mj...they wouldn't have done this.


You don't know that for sure. Magic came into a great situation and had a stacked team from the get go. Same with Larry Bird. And Jordan had Pippen and Grant a couple of years after he entered the league. Kobe had Shaq then Gasol.

Who did LeBron have in Clev? Mo Williams? The guy took a bunch of scrubs and helped them overachieve for years. You really don't know what these guys would've done in the same situation as LeBron. I mean he was playing in Clev of all places? LOL. That's like the worst place to play in the NBA. His legacy was on the line. He had played 7 years and there was no light at the end of the tunnel. He took his future into his own hands instead of hoping that management would be able to get another star. And I can't blame him for it. And we just don't know what these other greats would've done in the same situation.




yeah that cleveland team that ESPN and everybody that wasn't a laker or celtic fan thought was gonna win it all every year.


in mo williams own words "we're the best team in basketball"


they were the top seed in the east in those years, they were the top 2-3 seed in the whole league in those years.


i wouldn't say they were particularly deep, but that goes for the same for all the teams in east at that time minus the celtics, who the cavs were also the favorite to beat them, and who also had a better record than them for a couple of years, BUT STILL couldn't get out of the east to the finals.

lmao they lost to the 09 magic because lebron choked and couldn't bring it to the table.

i knew they couldn't beat the lakers if the matched up, no way. and even then they were favorites over the lakers most of the year.


LGL, seriously i don't understand your logic sometimes. Cleveland IS a horrible place to play, but thats lebrons home town so the location isn't a major factor.

but the man teamed up with 2nd best SG in the league (LOL, there were tons that argued he was the best) and Arguably at that time before he joined the heat, bosh was considered one of the best PFs in the league.

they devalued them selves and teamed up together, that is some sack of BS.

before they came together, if you made a 2k team with bosh lebron and wade, you think your friend would be happy with that roster?

hell why didn't AI, Kobe,T-Mac, KG, Dirk, Duncan, any combination of the 3 just give up and team up? because the grind is too hard.


this is why i believe your a low key troll (no offense if you aren't)
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