Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby v1n5anity on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:00 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:
therealdeal wrote:If I'm Wade or Bosh I tell them to go jump in a lake. They earned that money, especially Bosh.


Yeah, this isn't the NFL, they gave them the contract and they have to pay it. It would be good for the team If they took less, but that's not their problem. We're going through this with Nash, it sucks, but again, they gave him the contract, no one forced them.

Exactly. And if Wade opts out then he's going to lose money. No one is going to offer him anything close to 20 million dollars even over the life of a contract. He'd be looking at 2/15 million or something. That's what he's worth now in this CBA.

Bosh honestly could be worth his contract. He carries them sometimes and I think he's better than what they've turned him into. He could be a 20/9/1 type of guy elsewhere and those kinds of stats deserve great pay.

To ask them to make themselves role players so LeBron can get all the money? I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them.


This isn't entirely accurate. Currently Wade is owed $43 million over the next two years should he opt-in. Let's say after those 2 years he want to re-sign for another 3 years, what would his worth be? Maybe $10 at most? That would mean about $73 mill over the next 5 years (while the current cap hit is $20 mill each over the next two seasons). Instead, he can opt-out now, and re-sign for say, $85 mill for 5 years. He ends up making more money in that 5 year span, and the contract is about $17 million per season, while the cap hit in the next 2 seasons is obviously lowered. So it's a way to cut salary, while not really taking a pay cut. Obviously this is just an example and I don't see them getting Wade a 5 year deal, but this opens up options obviously.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:34 pm

You really think Miami is going to offer Dwayne Wade a 5/85 million dollar contract? Do you honestly believe that? I pray to God they do. That'd be the biggest waste of money since... ever. The man is a cooked potato on the floor. He's terrible. He's not worth 5 million let alone 17 for 5 years.

Good Lord. Please opt out so he can get this 5/85 million dollar deal.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby v1n5anity on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:43 pm

therealdeal wrote:You really think Miami is going to offer Dwayne Wade a 5/85 million dollar contract? Do you honestly believe that? I pray to God they do. That'd be the biggest waste of money since... ever. The man is a cooked potato on the floor. He's terrible. He's not worth 5 million let alone 17 for 5 years.

Good Lord. Please opt out so he can get this 5/85 million dollar deal.


v1n5anity wrote:This isn't entirely accurate. Currently Wade is owed $43 million over the next two years should he opt-in. Let's say after those 2 years he want to re-sign for another 3 years, what would his worth be? Maybe $10 at most? That would mean about $73 mill over the next 5 years (while the current cap hit is $20 mill each over the next two seasons). Instead, he can opt-out now, and re-sign for say, $85 mill for 5 years. He ends up making more money in that 5 year span, and the contract is about $17 million per season, while the cap hit in the next 2 seasons is obviously lowered. So it's a way to cut salary, while not really taking a pay cut. Obviously this is just an example and I don't see them getting Wade a 5 year deal, but this opens up options obviously.


So, no, I don't think they'll offer that. Like I said, it's just as example and I'd love if they offer him that type of deal. Or I'd love if he opted-in. Not a great situation for the Heat unless they can get all 3 of LeBron/Wade/Bosh to take a paycut to maybe ~$15 million per. Also, losing Miller, Battier, and now possibly Allen in a span of a year hurts them badly.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:44 pm

Some didn't believe Kobe would get over 15.....

What someone thinks he gets and what he's worth to someone else are two different things.

I see Miami as a pretty smart franchise. They took advantage of us and in doing so laid the groundwork for the big 3. The cogs were in motion long before that happened. They signed the 3 to specific contracts and no one else for longer than a year or on a controlled contract other than their rookies. I'd say that have managed that team pretty well.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:12 pm

They've done a great job, although it was up to the big three to accept the pay cuts. The ego wars continued past the first season, when LeBron finally own control of the team.

Now it's up to Wade. If he does what's best for himself, he stays for the 43 million or worse yet opts out and resigns for more money over more years. Either way it kills Miami's chances of getting a star to replace him, and make another run.

If he does what's best for the team, then he retires, or at least accepts a deal for like 5million for two years, so they have room to sign a decent star like Melo to join the big two.

It's in Wades hands, and I bet he takes the cash and sinks Miami.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:34 am

v1n5anity wrote:
So, no, I don't think they'll offer that. Like I said, it's just as example and I'd love if they offer him that type of deal. Or I'd love if he opted-in. Not a great situation for the Heat unless they can get all 3 of LeBron/Wade/Bosh to take a paycut to maybe ~$15 million per. Also, losing Miller, Battier, and now possibly Allen in a span of a year hurts them badly.

Well then why make the point? :man10:

I'm saying that there's no way that he makes more money if he opts out and you're saying there is a way... it's just not going to happen... That's my point. :man10:

The Heat are in trouble here. It's basically a mini-Kobe situation. Either they break off from Wade and let him go or they demand he takes a huge pay cut. That's the only thing that makes sense for them. Otherwise they're strapped to this albatross. At least Kobe will be productive while he's on the court, Wade can't even do that.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:52 am

hey, i hate wade as much or more than the next guy, but (a) he averaged 18 on 50% from the floor last year--we'll be extremely lucky if kobe approaches this level of production at 24 per for the next two years and (b) i actually think wade takes the paycut that kobe didn't, rendering the argument moot.

in fact, i'll be surprised if wade isn't making less money next year than he did this year. bosh will do the same, lebron will opt in for another year, and haslem will give up his option in exchange for something under the table. they'll sign a kyle lowry-level FA and be back in the finals.

in other words, i don't think they're in trouble. i do wish it were so, though.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:00 am

therealdeal wrote:Well then why make the point? :man10:

I'm saying that there's no way that he makes more money if he opts out and you're saying there is a way... it's just not going to happen... That's my point. :man10:


I made the point because you said "there's no way he makes more money if he opts out", but you simply don't know that. I didn't say him getting more money over 5 years isn't going to happen, it could definitely happen, but know knows. I was just saying I don't expect them to offer $85 mill over 5 years, which was just a number I chose to explain the option they have. Maybe he gets $60 mill for 4 years, maybe he gets more, maybe less. That's not necessarily the point. The point is, they can restructure his contract so that he makes less money in the next couple years (so they can sign other players) while still getting the same or more money than if just opted-in and re-signed after 2 years. No one knows what will happen, but what I alluded to is a definite possibility, and that is the point I'm making.

The Heat are in trouble here. It's basically a mini-Kobe situation. Either they break off from Wade and let him go or they demand he takes a huge pay cut. That's the only thing that makes sense for them. Otherwise they're strapped to this albatross. At least Kobe will be productive while he's on the court, Wade can't even do that.


Yeah I said that in my previous post. I hope that Bosh/Wade opt-in so it screws their situation. I also hope Allen retires. As I mentioned, losing Miller/Battier/Allen after all the big shots those guys have hit, is a massive hole left in their depth. I checked the list of available FAs this off-season and there isn't much out there. Guys like Deng/Ariza are available but I think they'll get more money elsewhere. Going to be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of weeks.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

abeer3 wrote:hey, i hate wade as much or more than the next guy, but (a) he averaged 18 on 50% from the floor last year--we'll be extremely lucky if kobe approaches this level of production at 24 per for the next two years and (b) i actually think wade takes the paycut that kobe didn't, rendering the argument moot.

in fact, i'll be surprised if wade isn't making less money next year than he did this year. bosh will do the same, lebron will opt in for another year, and haslem will give up his option in exchange for something under the table. they'll sign a kyle lowry-level FA and be back in the finals.

in other words, i don't think they're in trouble. i do wish it were so, though.


All of that sounds very easy, but it's much harder to actually convince them to take big paycuts though. The Wade already said he wants the money, LeBron said "Wade gonna get that Kobe contract" a few months ago. The owner has shown that he's more hesitant to spend now with the luxury tax implications. Hence the Miller amnesty and Joel Anthony trade. Why should the players take paycuts when the owner is being cheap and is the one who can sell the franchise for billions? Like I said, your idea is a lot easier said than done.

I don't see Miami as a realistic destination for Lowry. But I do agree that Wade isn't done. People are overreacting to his struggles in the Finals. He averaged 20ppg on 54% shooting the series before.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:08 am

v1n5anity wrote:I made the point because you said "there's no way he makes more money if he opts out", but you simply don't know that. I didn't say him getting more money over 5 years isn't going to happen, it could definitely happen, but know knows. I was just saying I don't expect them to offer $85 mill over 5 years, which was just a number I chose to explain the option they have. Maybe he gets $60 mill for 4 years, maybe he gets more, maybe less. That's not necessarily the point. The point is, they can restructure his contract so that he makes less money in the next couple years (so they can sign other players) while still getting the same or more money than if just opted-in and re-signed after 2 years. No one knows what will happen, but what I alluded to is a definite possibility, and that is the point I'm making.

But we both agree he's not going to get that offer so why belabor the point? I could say there's no chance at me meeting a beautiful actress at Starbucks later today and her falling deeply in love with me. Of course there's actually a minuscule chance, it's just not going to happen though. So again, why keep talking about it?

The Heat aren't going to offer him a long-term contract AND be successful. If he opts out, they'll make him an offer that probably totals the same amount that he could have gotten over more years, but they could offer him even LESS. He DESERVES less. He's a terrible player at this point compared to just a couple years ago. The Heat would be FOOLS to offer him 4/60 or 5/85 or anything more than what he's making now. What he's making RIGHT NOW is too much.

If he opts out Riley will ask him to take a major cut in pay proportional to what he's actually worth. He'd be a fool to opt out unless he's content with making much less money next season. We AGREE on this point. Why are you still arguing a moot point? :man10:

v1n5anity wrote:Yeah I said that in my previous post. I hope that Bosh/Wade opt-in so it screws their situation. I also hope Allen retires. As I mentioned, losing Miller/Battier/Allen after all the big shots those guys have hit, is a massive hole left in their depth. I checked the list of available FAs this off-season and there isn't much out there. Guys like Deng/Ariza are available but I think they'll get more money elsewhere. Going to be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of weeks.
It's already being reported that Riley and their owner want Bosh and Wade to take significant cuts in pay so they can try to get someone else in there like Lowry or maybe Deng/Ariza like you said. If I'm Wade/Bosh I tell them to eff off, opt in and keep my money. That's the most likely scenario here unless the 3 guys love each other so much they're willing to all take cuts together. I just don't see it.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:53 am

therealdeal wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:I made the point because you said "there's no way he makes more money if he opts out", but you simply don't know that. I didn't say him getting more money over 5 years isn't going to happen, it could definitely happen, but know knows. I was just saying I don't expect them to offer $85 mill over 5 years, which was just a number I chose to explain the option they have. Maybe he gets $60 mill for 4 years, maybe he gets more, maybe less. That's not necessarily the point. The point is, they can restructure his contract so that he makes less money in the next couple years (so they can sign other players) while still getting the same or more money than if just opted-in and re-signed after 2 years. No one knows what will happen, but what I alluded to is a definite possibility, and that is the point I'm making.

But we both agree he's not going to get that offer so why belabor the point? I could say there's no chance at me meeting a beautiful actress at Starbucks later today and her falling deeply in love with me. Of course there's actually a minuscule chance, it's just not going to happen though. So again, why keep talking about it?

The Heat aren't going to offer him a long-term contract AND be successful. If he opts out, they'll make him an offer that probably totals the same amount that he could have gotten over more years, but they could offer him even LESS. He DESERVES less. He's a terrible player at this point compared to just a couple years ago. The Heat would be FOOLS to offer him 4/60 or 5/85 or anything more than what he's making now. What he's making RIGHT NOW is too much.

If he opts out Riley will ask him to take a major cut in pay proportional to what he's actually worth. He'd be a fool to opt out unless he's content with making much less money next season. We AGREE on this point. Why are you still arguing a moot point? :man10:


While I don't think he will get $85 mill over 5 years, I can definitely something along the lines of $60 mill over 4 years. I don't see how that's out of the question. He's owed over $43 million over the next two seasons if he opts in. If they re-signed him for 2 years at a measly $5 approximately per year, that's around $55 mill over the 4 years. While the heat would be paying more, if they truly are willing to spend, this is a possibility because it opens up options to sign other players. And I would expect Wade to sign for more than $5 mill in a couple years, making $60 mill over 4 years more realistic. Heat's level of loyalty to Wade will be displayed. And Wade isn't done. abeer3 may be the biggest Wade hater on this forum, and even he knows Wade isn't done.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:08 am

Oh I think Wade is definitely done. He looked like a roasted duck in the Finals and they spent all season saving him for just that moment. He was an absolutely atrocious defender. He couldn't get to the rim the way he used to. His numbers in the Finals:
15.2 ppg
2.6 apg
3.8 rpg
1.6 steals pg (misleading defensive stat, but props on 4 steals in one game)
3.6 tos pg
28/64 FG% (44%)
2/6 3PT% (33%)
18/26 FT% (70%) (had to be a career low FT attempts in the Finals for him, right?)

If the Heat give him that legacy contract worth 4 years, they'll lose every year in the Finals because the East is so bad. LeBron leaves if they give a contract like that Wade. I'd love if they did that.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:07 pm

v1n5anity wrote:
abeer3 wrote:hey, i hate wade as much or more than the next guy, but (a) he averaged 18 on 50% from the floor last year--we'll be extremely lucky if kobe approaches this level of production at 24 per for the next two years and (b) i actually think wade takes the paycut that kobe didn't, rendering the argument moot.

in fact, i'll be surprised if wade isn't making less money next year than he did this year. bosh will do the same, lebron will opt in for another year, and haslem will give up his option in exchange for something under the table. they'll sign a kyle lowry-level FA and be back in the finals.

in other words, i don't think they're in trouble. i do wish it were so, though.


All of that sounds very easy, but it's much harder to actually convince them to take big paycuts though. The Wade already said he wants the money, LeBron said "Wade gonna get that Kobe contract" a few months ago. The owner has shown that he's more hesitant to spend now with the luxury tax implications. Hence the Miller amnesty and Joel Anthony trade. Why should the players take paycuts when the owner is being cheap and is the one who can sell the franchise for billions? Like I said, your idea is a lot easier said than done.

I don't see Miami as a realistic destination for Lowry. But I do agree that Wade isn't done. People are overreacting to his struggles in the Finals. He averaged 20ppg on 54% shooting the series before.


I didn't go into it in my previous post, but unspoken assumption is that pat riley is a cheater and that he will cheat again. he cheated with Anthony carter; he cheated with the big 3, and I think he cheated with haslem once already. nobody has ever even acted like they cared. who says he can't/won't do it again?
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:55 am

abeer3 wrote:
v1n5anity wrote:
abeer3 wrote:hey, i hate wade as much or more than the next guy, but (a) he averaged 18 on 50% from the floor last year--we'll be extremely lucky if kobe approaches this level of production at 24 per for the next two years and (b) i actually think wade takes the paycut that kobe didn't, rendering the argument moot.

in fact, i'll be surprised if wade isn't making less money next year than he did this year. bosh will do the same, lebron will opt in for another year, and haslem will give up his option in exchange for something under the table. they'll sign a kyle lowry-level FA and be back in the finals.

in other words, i don't think they're in trouble. i do wish it were so, though.


All of that sounds very easy, but it's much harder to actually convince them to take big paycuts though. The Wade already said he wants the money, LeBron said "Wade gonna get that Kobe contract" a few months ago. The owner has shown that he's more hesitant to spend now with the luxury tax implications. Hence the Miller amnesty and Joel Anthony trade. Why should the players take paycuts when the owner is being cheap and is the one who can sell the franchise for billions? Like I said, your idea is a lot easier said than done.

I don't see Miami as a realistic destination for Lowry. But I do agree that Wade isn't done. People are overreacting to his struggles in the Finals. He averaged 20ppg on 54% shooting the series before.


I didn't go into it in my previous post, but unspoken assumption is that pat riley is a cheater and that he will cheat again. he cheated with Anthony carter; he cheated with the big 3, and I think he cheated with haslem once already. nobody has ever even acted like they cared. who says he can't/won't do it again?


And let's not forget his very public recruitment of Lamar Odom during an NBA game when the Lakers played the Heat. That was hilarious. "I've always loved you!" Tampering live on TV for everyone to see. :man10: Then Wade joined the act.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:42 am

yeah, I wouldn't put anything past him. I fully expect wade and bosh to opt out and take long term deals at 15 per with player options so that the heat can get a lowry-level player and convince LeBron to stay.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:24 pm

abeer3 wrote:yeah, I wouldn't put anything past him. I fully expect wade and bosh to opt out and take long term deals at 15 per with player options so that the heat can get a lowry-level player and convince LeBron to stay.


If they want to win again that's what they do..... Wade has to know he's not going to carry the load ever again for a top team.... take big money for the Babe Ruth tour or take less and get more rings.... that's not a tough one because the money will be replaced by endorsements etc.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:48 pm

abeer3 wrote:yeah, I wouldn't put anything past him. I fully expect wade and bosh to opt out and take long term deals at 15 per with player options so that the heat can get a lowry-level player and convince LeBron to stay.

If Wade signs that deal, the Heat are still in trouble. Not to mention... why should he? If I were him I'd say no thanks, I've got 40 million sewn up right now. Why should I take less money? I've helped win this franchise 3 rings.
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:25 pm

you take it because riley has winked and said he'd make it up to you in another way.

and if he and bosh both take lower money for more years, I think they're not in immediate trouble. they've got to be about prolonging the window in Miami right now, whatever the long term cost. if they let LeBron walk now, the whole thing seems like a failure (despite two rings).
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby dj vitus on Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:51 am

Looks like Carmelo is opting out:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2014/06/22/carmelo-anthony-free-agent-contract-opt-out-new-york-phil-jackson/11237049/

Dude's made $140M in his career not including endorsements, so might as well take the mid-level in Miami and go for some rings. :man9:

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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby 432J on Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:29 am

phil and d-fish are sure going to have their hands full next season

that team without melo could be contending for a bottom 3 spot
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Re: Miami Heat look to target Carmelo Anthony

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:20 am

abeer3 wrote:you take it because riley has winked and said he'd make it up to you in another way.

and if he and bosh both take lower money for more years, I think they're not in immediate trouble. they've got to be about prolonging the window in Miami right now, whatever the long term cost. if they let LeBron walk now, the whole thing seems like a failure (despite two rings).

That's all true, I just don't know that Wade and Bosh do that. Bosh can get a ton of money and a decent shot at competing in Houston or Dallas. Wade has GOT to know his window is barely open enough to let a breeze pass through it.

There'd have to be a lot of under-the-table money going on here.
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