Official LBJ thread: Clutch in Miami 1-9?

So is the thread title supposed to be sarcasm?

These days, I have to ask.

If he can remain healthy then sky is the limit...

LakerFan1235 wrote:

lakersStan24 wrote:

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:I have a feeling this thread will be moved to Lakers Discussion in two years.

Me Too!

eww

Doc Brown wrote:They were comparing him and KAJ for the scoring record on S***center today......

He could have it by 2020-2024.

Do they not realize how absurd of a length of time it is until then.

They do their best to make sure we know that we are watching greatness in the making. Maybe they realized the mistake they made with dismissing Kobe all those years and didn't want to do the same thing twice

Chillbongo wrote:So is the thread title supposed to be sarcasm?

These days, I have to ask.

TO answer your question.... No, the thread title has been the same since the Olympics. They usually represent what ESPN is talking about at the time. Jazzygirl bumped the thread from the last time it was active hence the current title. Hope that answers your question.

Got it -- figured it was BSPN crap.

He's been making a case for himself though, since this thread launched. Depending on titles, he may or may not finish in the top 10 NBA GOAT.

^I don't think anyone knocks the overall skill of Lebron. I know I have been one of his biggest critics but he is one of the best in the game today and he will be in the NBA's top greats list for sure. The problem is celebrating him before he has done enough to warrent the praise. The biggest issue is that he gets a pass where others (namely Kobe) didn't get one. If he didn't win then it was his team. If he won it was all him. Most of the hate for Lebron comes from two things 1. His arrogance/attitude and 2. the Media constant blowjob of the guy.

For the record I still don't think he is a great as everyone makes him. I am not convinced that once athleticism leaves he won't be able to adapt enough to stay at this level. I could be wrong I know he has improved greatly on his post game which before the Olympics was atrocious. His shot is still horrible to me but effective for him. Listen to ESPN long enough you would say he has no flaws at any part of his game.

The problem is celebrating him before he has done enough to warrent the praise.

Why shouldn't he be celebrated? He's 28 years old and already has 3 MVPS, a Finals MVP, and it's a foregone conclusion that he will shatter numerous records and still has plenty of time to accomplish more. It's not often you get to witness players like this.

The biggest issue is that he gets a pass where others (namely Kobe) didn't get one. If he didn't win then it was his team. If he won it was all him.

No you're just making stuff up or you have selective memory. He got KILLED by the media after the Cavs lost to the Celtics in 10' and when the Heat lost to the Mavs in 11. He didn't show up and no one was going to let him forget it. All we heard until he won last year was that he was a ringless.

After Kobe's 5th title people(Mike Wilbon to be exact) still don't have Kobe in their top 10, some don't even have Kobe in their top 20 yet. LeBron has never been as hawk watched as Kobe has. Kobe's always had to deal with the scrutiny because he came in the league when MJ was still the golden boy so he was like a villian for 90% of his career. LeBron came into the league when Kobe is still playing it was like "Thank you God, now get him out of the way LeBron". But I don't blame LeBron he's great, it's the media.

Puffy -- agree 1000% percent.

I have been a harsh critic as well -- His attitude has been questionable from day one, the media's [premature] glorification of his status as a player, the heavy reliance on his athleticism, the double standard with Kobe -- all of it just really made me lose faith in people's ability to recognize what truly phenomenal players Kobe & Jordan were.

I remember him at the VMA's in 2003 before he played an NBA game, before he accomplished s*** acting like he was "King James"...at age 18. And the reason was because the media was all on his n***. To me, he's still not "King James", he's LeBron, a great player. The comparisons to Jordan are few and far between, and I think even Durant will end his career more successfully than LeBron.

I will give him this --he did improve his shot, and is working on post game. But yeah, his athleticism is one of the chief reasons he dominates, and his explosiveness will come down over the next 5 or so years.

I'll give him this -- he is better at getting his teammates involved/making them better than Kobe, but then again he is nothing close to the scoring machine or complete basketball player that Kobe is.

Jazzygirl205 wrote:After Kobe's 5th title people(Mike Wilbon to be exact) still don't have Kobe in their top 10, some don't even have Kobe in their top 20 yet. LeBron has never been as hawk watched as Kobe has. Kobe's always had to deal with the scrutiny because he came in the league when MJ was still the golden boy so he was like a villian for 90% of his career. LeBron came into the league when Kobe is still playing it was like "Thank you God, now get him out of the way LeBron". But I don't blame LeBron he's great, it's the media.

Wilbon doesn't have Kobe in his top 10?

WOW. I usually find Wilbon agreeable & rational, and not one to play favorites or emotions.........

Anyone who doesn't include Kobe in the top 20 is a complete f****** tool. How the hell is 1 of 5 people to EVER score 30,000 points not one of the top 20 players of all time?

I don't agree with much of the opinions of Lebron James on this page.

Lebron James, for all the hype he was given, has exceeded the hype. Think about 2003, when the whole world knew his name before he played a preseason game in the league. How well did you think (personally) he would play in year one? Did you ever see him 20, 5, and 5? One of only three guys to do it? I didn't. I don't think anyone did. I also didn't think he would get to the finals by age 21. But he did...with Eric Snow and Larry Hughes as his best players alongside of him. 9 years later, he has 20K in points, 5K in assists, 3 MVPs, 3 all-star game MVP's, 1 finals MVP and a ring...and counting. He's been the best player in the world since 2010 and that will remain for awhile simply because no one in the game is more versatile with his size. His hype was justified. He really is that good.

As far as longevity goes in terms of athleticism, I think we have clearly underestimated the advance in medical technology. I definitely underestimated it. Look at Kobe Bryant, Ray Lewis, Derek Jeter, Tony Gonzalez...all guys who have played either 16 or 17 years in their respective sports and how productive they still are. It's more than impressive. We are now seeing the results of modern medical science and technology int he professional sports world coming forth. Lebron James at his lowest level of athleticism will be bigger, faster, and stronger than 85% of the league. With his work ethic, basketball I.Q. and passing ability, he'll play a long time in this league and be very productive.

I don't agree with much of the opinions of Lebron James on this page.

Lebron James, for all the hype he was given, has exceeded the hype. Think about 2003, when the whole world knew his name before he played a preseason game in the league. How well did you think (personally) he would play in year one? Did you ever see him 20, 5, and 5? One of only three guys to do it? I didn't. I don't think anyone did. I also didn't think he would get to the finals by age 21. But he did...with Eric Snow and Larry Hughes as his best players alongside of him. 9 years later, he has 20K in points, 5K in assists, 3 MVPs, 3 all-star game MVP's, 1 finals MVP and a ring...and counting. He's been the best player in the world since 2010 and that will remain for awhile simply because no one in the game is more versatile with his size. His hype was justified. He really is that good.

As far as longevity goes in terms of athleticism, I think we have clearly underestimated the advance in medical technology. I definitely underestimated it. Look at Kobe Bryant, Ray Lewis, Derek Jeter, Tony Gonzalez...all guys who have played either 16 or 17 years in their respective sports and how productive they still are. It's more than impressive. We are now seeing the results of modern medical science and technology int he professional sports world coming forth. Lebron James at his lowest level of athleticism will be bigger, faster, and stronger than 85% of the league. With his work ethic, basketball I.Q. and passing ability, he'll play a long time in this league and be very productive.

I officially cannot hate on the guy any longer without just being a homer Well that point happened a while ago, but I wasn't ready yet mentally.

I think in about 3-4 years he'll have a major injury or his athleticism will take a dive and the important part for him then will be how he reinvents himself. Something that has kept Kobe Bryant at the height of his game is his ability to reinvent what he's doing and how he's doing it. LeBron has shown me development. It's what I've been calling for all along: develop a post game, develop a jump shot, etc. etc. Well he's done those things. He's a better shooter now, he's a better post player now, and he's still got his athleticism.

He'll continue being the best player on the planet until that athleticism drops to the point where defenses can help on him. I think he'll have his first step for a good 6-7 years if all goes well, but in a few years defenses will be able to take away his drive because he won't be as fast. How will he adjust? Personally, I think he'll do fine. He'll develop a better jumper.

Here's to the kid deserving the crown.

he's by far the best player in the world
BUT

there is no way he should be compared to mj or kobe until he has a couple more rings. i'd easily put lebron in my top 20 list right now but when he hangs them up, i'm positive he'll be top 5 all time

Great athlete who happens to play basketball really good aka Lebron. Great Basketball player who happens to be a really good athlete aka Kobe/Jordan

Chillbongo wrote:

Jazzygirl205 wrote:After Kobe's 5th title people(Mike Wilbon to be exact) still don't have Kobe in their top 10, some don't even have Kobe in their top 20 yet. LeBron has never been as hawk watched as Kobe has. Kobe's always had to deal with the scrutiny because he came in the league when MJ was still the golden boy so he was like a villian for 90% of his career. LeBron came into the league when Kobe is still playing it was like "Thank you God, now get him out of the way LeBron". But I don't blame LeBron he's great, it's the media.

Wilbon doesn't have Kobe in his top 10?

WOW. I usually find Wilbon agreeable & rational, and not one to play favorites or emotions.........

Anyone who doesn't include Kobe in the top 20 is a complete f****** tool. How the hell is 1 of 5 people to EVER score 30,000 points not one of the top 20 players of all time?

Yeah it was after Kobe won title numero cinco Magic and I think Jon Barry asked does he have Kobe in his top 10 and he was like "Um...no...no not yet, he's not even in my top 20". But LeBron was already top 10 after his first title last season.

If LeBron and Kobe switched careers you think the commentary would still be the same, or would Kobe have LeBron's praise and LeBron have Kobe's plethora of "But he's not"...and "not yets"?

I remember when Kobe came into the NBA much like now he was ignored and people were putting Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter and several others ahead of him and saying they were better and would have better careers. But Kobe outlasted all of these guys and on top of that he's still playing well and even better than the other guys, at the same time fighting off injury.

I have to admit unlike LeBron and others Kobe's career has been tainted with constant hate and dissect. The hate a doping athlete would get for being accused of using performance enhancing drugs, and it started before the Colorado incident.

A lot of Laker/Kobe fans don't hate LeBron, a lot of them despise the media for their blatant BIAS and hypocrisy and involving Kobe versus other players with similar games, careers etc...

Some other athlete puts up a bunch of points they're great or considered the best scorer in the league, Kobe does it it's like "Well he's great but **goes to check how many assists he has** it's been mostly backhanded compliments for Kobe not down right giving him his props.

Kobe's amazing, we won't see another player like Kobe for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time whether want to admit it or not. We're moving into a league where people enjoy high scoring games, dunks, young talent/teams, and people scoring a lot of points. If Kobe were 17/18 coming into this league this day and age he'd be worshiped because there's no Jordan almighty for him to wait retire before he can consider himself the best, or no old school athlete people are still hung up on so they won't taint his image with hatred.

That's why sometimes I wish Kobe existed after the late 90's rather than before because it's just unfortunate. I still go under videos and see "SOME" people just now seeing certain games and individual accolades from Kobe and being amazed. That's just how badly tainted his career was due to hatred and bias. I remember the documentary ESPN had and many writers flat out not hiding their disdain for him, constantly saying he'll never be Jordan stop comparing him to Jordan. Move along into the newer era and you have older players and some of the same people gladly comparing him to Jordan despite Kobe still playing.

It just annoys me greatly. Even with Durant up and coming people aren't pushing him ahead of LeBron just yet like they've done Kobe in the light of LeBron.

Super Kobe fans kind of have a right to be annoyed. Mark my words people are gonna miss Kobe as a player especially in a new era of fascinating with scoring and high power offenses and points.

nvm...

Iceberg Slim wrote:I don't agree with much of the opinions of Lebron James on this page.
Lebron James, for all the hype he was given, has exceeded the hype. Think about 2003, when the whole world knew his name before he played a preseason game in the league. How well did you think (personally) he would play in year one? Did you ever see him 20, 5, and 5? One of only three guys to do it? I didn't. I don't think anyone did. I also didn't think he would get to the finals by age 21. But he did...with Eric Snow and Larry Hughes as his best players alongside of him. 9 years later, he has 20K in points, 5K in assists, 3 MVPs, 3 all-star game MVP's, 1 finals MVP and a ring...and counting. He's been the best player in the world since 2010 and that will remain for awhile simply because no one in the game is more versatile with his size. His hype was justified. He really is that good.

As far as longevity goes in terms of athleticism, I think we have clearly underestimated the advance in medical technology. I definitely underestimated it. Look at Kobe Bryant, Ray Lewis, Derek Jeter, Tony Gonzalez...all guys who have played either 16 or 17 years in their respective sports and how productive they still are. It's more than impressive. We are now seeing the results of modern medical science and technology int he professional sports world coming forth. Lebron James at his lowest level of athleticism will be bigger, faster, and stronger than 85% of the league. With his work ethic, basketball I.Q. and passing ability, he'll play a long time in this league and be very productive.

Well, I don't know about that. Exceeding the hype? The dude was claimed to be on the level of Michael Jordan before winning a title. Possibly even before getting to the Finals (which, btw I believe in 2007 he was 22 or 23). I don't know how you can "exceed" that hype. Titles speak for themselves, and he has 1.

His numbers are phenomenal, and his skill set is unmatched. But for me that's fairy dust unless your winning--solely because of the HYPE he got. I cannot and will not say he has exceeded it. LBJ will have to win at least 6 titles and 6 Finals MVP's to even match the hype, let alone exceed it. Numbers are great, but they aren't the end-all be all. John Stockton & Karl Malone have some of the all-time best numbers, but they won't be in the top 10 GOAT discussion, because they have no titles. That's why Magic, Kareem & Bird are in that discussion. Titles.

You're right though. Longevity is a different issue, and he could be in the league for a while. My qualm has always been the heavy reliance on athleticism, and lack of post game and jump shot. His foot work is not nearly as good as Kobe's or Jordan's. If he lasts in the league and keeps adding to his game, and passing the way he does, sure. But he's not there yet. So it is just that -- hype.

The jury isn't closed on this one, though. He will end up being one of the NBA's GOAT, no doubt. You cant discredit his abilities & IQ. But it's about rings.

And to warrant that hype, he's got to win 6 rings & 6 Finals MVP's.

One thing, of many that Jordan has on Kobe and LeBron is that he won every final series he played in. That's dominance.

As for Wilbon, he did say today that being the first to 20000 age-wise isn't that big a deal, since Kobe and LeBron started at 18. What was impressive, in his eyes, was how many games it took to get to 20000, and in that race Jordan is way ahead of everyone.

puffy are you serious?

i agree with joel... if you can't tell how great he is then you're just a hater man...

look at game 6 in boston last year... imagine if he would have lost that game...and all the crap he would have gone throught but he puts up like 45 pts and dominated the game....it was over at halftime...

kobe was the best for so many years and we all know that now its lebrons turn...no shame in that