Official LBJ thread: 82 games too much man

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri May 24, 2013 11:57 pm

^You got it all wrong. Lebron made the "right basketball play."
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Postby Forward Three on Fri May 24, 2013 11:58 pm

We'll never know of course, but I bet that if in game 1 the Pacers hadn't left the lane wide open or if there had been 5-6 seconds on the clock that Lebron wouldn't have attempted the final shot.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat May 25, 2013 12:31 am

Should have stopped at the elbow and pull up for a J on the 2nd TO ... Pacers weren't going to let him go to the rim a 2nd time after the layup in Game 1 ... skills over bulldozer
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Postby The Original 81 on Sat May 25, 2013 1:33 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Should have stopped at the elbow and pull up for a J on the 2nd TO ... Pacers weren't going to let him go to the rim a 2nd time after the layup in Game 1 ... skills over bulldozer


Yeah I'm not sure why he didn't, it looked like he made up his mind that he was going to the rim and didn't have a backup plan once the lane wasn't open. And once he stopped his dribble, he's not nearly skilled enough to utilize his footwork to get off a shot, he could've tried some sort of up and under move.

It also appeared that he wanted to pass rather than shoot it, add that's why I don't think you should ever double him, just collapse towards the paint, give him the jumper and live with the results.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat May 25, 2013 4:58 am

Yeah once he turned the corner and saw Hibbert on the strong side , the decision to go to the hoop wasn't a good one ... Wade with the brainfart too once Bron stopped his dribble ..

If Wade stays in the corner and doesn't bring Stepheson with him , there is a probably decent passing lane to hit Allen for the 3..

Hibbert did a terrific job at helping on Lebron and then sliding back towards Bosh to dissuade a pass ... West not so much , it's probably a wide open 3 for Allen without Wade mistake

Both Lebron and Wade badly messed it up
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu May 30, 2013 8:14 am

So after flopgate where (gasp) LBJ was fined for flopping ESPN brought this nugget to talk today:

Is Lebron James the smartest player in the NBA?

That simple. Thoughts?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Doc Brown on Thu May 30, 2013 8:50 am

:man10:

How transparent does ESPN think people are?

Aside from having something to praise the Kang for when the the Heat and the Kang are at a low point, where does this topic come from? And why is this a subject in the middle of a playoff series?

It's funny watching how insecure ESPN gets when the Kang isn't winning.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu May 30, 2013 9:14 am

slurp slurp slurp...
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu May 30, 2013 9:26 am

Some may think this is all about hating on Lebron but it really isn't. I think the question could have some validity as the guy has great court vision. However, the timing of the question is :man3: If the Heat lose tonight I wonder what the topics will be then..........
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Finwë on Thu May 30, 2013 9:30 am

^ totally :man10:

About the topic, I don't know about "highest", but he's definitely very good at reading the D and making plays, avoiding mistakes (most of the time) and playing an efficient game. Of course he's also in a great position to do that given his stacked team, which fits his game as well as any surrounding cast has ever fit a #1 option.
Still, I would consider LeBron among the "smartest" on-court players, in terms of his reading and reacting instincts.

You could also think of "basketball IQ" in terms of a player's depth of knowledge about the game. In that sense, I don't think LeBron is so high up, meaning, I don't know how good of a coach he'd be, because it's completely different. For example, despite him being my favorite player, I wouldn't put Kobe among the top guys in terms of on-court "smart" and efficient decisions.. He's not as careful as some of those guys (probably a good thing in some ways), he does tend to take wild shots from time to time (though again, it's also about the guys around him and the position he's in) and he ends up being a less efficient player. But in the sense of basketball knowledge, which is another way to think about bball IQ, I think he's definitely up there as a player; I feel would be a great Xs and Os coach, because he seems to really understand the intricacies of the game (especially when you hear him talk and breakdown the game).

So there are different ways to view this "bball iq" thing, and also we can't forget that much of what we perceive of it has to do not just with the player himself but with the position he's in, in terms of system and personnel.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu May 30, 2013 9:42 am

^You make a point that SAS made on First Take when talking about Kobe. He actually argued that he couldn't say Lebron was the smartest because that would discredit Kobe who probably has a greater understanding of the game than anyone. Skip of course said, he chose Lebron because Lebron passes the ball on the level of Magic, Stockton etc.... SAS was like Kobe has had to play many different roles in his tenure as a Laker which explains why he does what he does but also Kobe is a shoot first guy unlike Lebron. He even reminded Skip that experts lamented Lebron for passing too much and not having a Kobe-like attitude. Of course, Skip denied ever saying that but SAS wouldn't let him off the hook. In the end, Lebron has great court vision and understands the system he plays within.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Weezy on Thu May 30, 2013 1:01 pm

I don't know that I'd call him the absolute smartest, but I would call him one of the smartest, he'd be on a list of the smartest. There are some smart PG's out there, Tony Parker, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Rondo and believe it or not I'd consider Andre Miller one of the smartest players out there, that's why he lasts in the NBA not being the fastest, most athletic, or even best shooter. Duncan is obviously up there (I might put a teammate of his in Ginobili on the list too, crafty dude), Kobe is one of the smartest despite his occasional dumb shots, and Shane Battier before he joined the Heat and became a flopping douche I would say was smart.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby davriver290 on Thu May 30, 2013 1:22 pm

Lebron is indeed a smart b ball player. He makes mistakes just like many other players, but he seems to be doing just fine. He's somewhat added a post game and has found ways to get guys open. I feel bad for this guy... So much hate. lol. I don't like the Heat that much, but I don't hate Lebron. To be honest, I dislike Wade more than I do Lebron. We should hate on players who deserve it moreso. Like Raja Bell, Westbrook, Ibaka, perkins, KG, Pierce, Ray Allen....
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Juronimo on Thu May 30, 2013 1:34 pm

My issue with Lebron personally is that he quit on his team during the 2010 playoff series against you know who. You just can't do that. As much as I hated guys like Bird or Isaiah when they played, they never did that. They left it all on the court, even though they were bastards. Lebron just quit and that's despicable. I don't hate him, I just don't respect him because of that. I actually hate Wade and a whole lot of current and former ******* players a lot more.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Weezy on Thu May 30, 2013 1:37 pm

Yeah, LeBrons never done stuff to bring the attention and hate to himself, it's always from outside. Well actually there was the "a LeBron James team is never desperate" lame-o 3rd person quote, the dancing on hand sidelines during games disrespecting opponents, and silly skits before games. Then there was "The Decision" where he made a huge spectacle of himself and kinda crushed his city on live tv, joining a superteam with his buddies because he couldn't get it done in Cleveland, then the championship celebration a year and a half early "it's gonna be easy... Not 5, not 6, not 7..". Then there's always the ridiculous flopping, and Iike Juronimo said, that bizarre series against the C's in 2010 where he appeared to quit on his team and was just done with Cleveland. Plus you always have this to go back to

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Does he deserve all the hate he gets? Probably not, but I'd say he deserves plenty that he gets. Do I feel bad for him? Hell no. :man10: Guy makes millions, is the best player in the NBA, and is probably going to win his 2nd title this season. I didn't want to hate on him, I was even trying to be nice to him and call him smart, but you had to pull me in with the "he doesn't deserve it" and " I feel bad for him". :mhihi:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu May 30, 2013 3:53 pm

OK I have to chime in on "LBJ doesn't deserve the hate" debate. A couple things stand out to me here....

1. This type of reaction is just what the ESPN machine wants from the fans. Lebron is completely celebrated through all media channels as the greatest of all time as if he was Jesus with a Basketball. If he is the next coming of Jesus with sneakers then he also earns criticism at the same extreme levels as he gets praise. For example, did we see the block shot on a finger roll that Lebron did? The pundits was calling it one of his most amazing blocks... Really? The pacer went up soft and the bigger player got the block. Hell Steve Nash and Steve Blake both have blocks better than that one this past season. yet, when it is Lebron it becomes this greatest of great things. Overblowing small things invites undervalueing big things.

2. Lebron has called a travel call made against him completely wrong because he did the "crab dribble" as if everyone who called him for a travel is stupid.

3. He has quit on his team but seems to be given a pass for any of it. While other players are constantly reminded of their failures.

4. As Lakers fans we saw how easy the media murders Kobe for not passing or passing too much or not taking a shot or taking the shot. Lebron is forgiven for every transgression. In fact they are swept under the rug.

5. If he is the best in the game then his game should be criticized which the media seems scared to do at any cost.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby JGC on Thu May 30, 2013 7:08 pm

Lebron is one of the smarter players in the league, but I don't think he is the smartest. The smartest players in the league know best whether to pass, or to shoot. I've seen too many situations where Lebron opted to pass versus take the shot himself. But I think the same could be said the other way around for Kobe. There have been situations where the right play would have been to pass, but it's in Kobe's DNA to take the shot himself. But LBJ is up there. Maybe right behind Kobe IMO.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Forward Three on Thu May 30, 2013 8:20 pm

For as much crap as I give Lebron, he really does understand the game inside and out and it's apparent. I mean, it's kind of 'the least you can do' if you have the opportunity to play at that level, but a lot of players do somewhat neglect it. But it's almost to a fault with him as evidenced recently by his "flopping is part of the game", his keenness towards not only the rules but how the game is officiated does make him that much more annoying to watch at times. Still, he has that going for him, I mean I can't stand the guy but he really is the real deal and the complete package, his weaknesses are still stronger than most players who consider those attributes strengths and he plays with a haughtiness and composure that borderlines into apathy or disinterest at times but still 'gets it done' usually.

All that said, he still has a tendency to shirk a bit in crunch time, he still has a tendency to want to pass _too much_ even if it is not the best thing to do. In Game 5 just now we saw that Lebron can take the Pacers apart on his own if he really goes at it, sure maybe that was partly a fluke on the Pacer's part but even still, it's not hard to see how the Heat could be 4-1 right now if Lebron had had more of that mentality throughout instead of trying ceaseless to make the pass or just not looking to shoot at all.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri May 31, 2013 6:52 pm

He's smart enough to know what to do most of the time, but he doesn't have the balls to do what's right in crunch time.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: ESPN Q: Does LBJ have Highest BB IQ?

Postby Rooscooter on Fri May 31, 2013 7:21 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:He's smart enough to know what to do most of the time, but he doesn't have the balls to do what's right in crunch time.


This....

He's smarter than he was..... and he seems to be "getting it".... but there are still times where he lapses.

What I've seen in this series is because of Wade's injury he is essentially relegated to what Kobe was doing at the end of the year.... Main scorer, initiator, primary defender and playing 40 minutes a game. The difference is that LeBron is in his prime.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: New Q: What if.......

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:25 pm

Now we all know that the Heat are still HEAVY favorites to beat the Pacers in Game 7....... BUT.....

If the Heat lose game 7 on their own floor what does that do for the Lebron? Some may remember that the Cavs often sported the best record in the NBA when the King was there but came up short in all playoff runs but one where......they came up short with a broom. Take away the Championship from last season the King's teams have ranked in the top 3 of the NBA standing wise every year. If the Heat fail to make it to the FInals in this depleted East what will be said about the King and his legacy? Anything? Nothing? Should it be tarnished? Will he be a victim of old teammates and not enough help? What say you brain trust of NBA Discussion..........................
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: New Q: What if.......

Postby Weezy on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:41 pm

If they lose, it will be said that LeBron did everything he could and Wade and Bosh failed him. I believe unless he has a terrible game 7 where he goes back to his old shrinking in a huge game ways, he will get very little blame, if any. I can't see the NBA letting that happen though, if you know what I mean, Miami is going to have some serious home cookin game 7.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: New Q: What if.......

Postby OX1947 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:47 pm

If the Heat lose Game 7 or lose to the Spurs in the finals, it will only prove further that winning titles is not easy. I think too many people forget that. They think because they saw Jordan, Kobe and Shaq 3-peat or repeat, that it's easy. It isn't. The Spurs have been consistent and the best run organization for the last 16 years and they haven't won a title in 7 years.

If Lebron loses this year, he will be on par with Peyton Manning and the Atlanta Braves. Great in the regular season and satisfactory in the playoffs.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: New Q: What if.......

Postby Kasumi on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:47 pm

I loved that they said on Inside the NBA that LeBron was likely wishing he had his Cleveland teammates back.

Aside from what would happen with his legacy if they lose Game 7, I think this series is having an affect on his legacy with regards to being known for fantastical flopping. He is in danger of being known for being a cheater rather than a competitor.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: New Q: What if.......

Postby Forward Three on Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:07 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Now we all know that the Heat are still HEAVY favorites to beat the Pacers in Game 7....... BUT.....

If the Heat lose game 7 on their own floor what does that do for the Lebron? Some may remember that the Cavs often sported the best record in the NBA when the King was there but came up short in all playoff runs but one where......they came up short with a broom. Take away the Championship from last season the King's teams have ranked in the top 3 of the NBA standing wise every year. If the Heat fail to make it to the FInals in this depleted East what will be said about the King and his legacy? Anything? Nothing? Should it be tarnished? Will he be a victim of old teammates and not enough help? What say you brain trust of NBA Discussion..........................



I think, for one thing, it shows that we've moved on to the "What does this mean for Lebron's Legacy" stage of his career, much as we(and the media) started obsessing about, and dissecting everything in to a "what does it mean" re: Kobe's Legacy when he was in his late 20s and early 30s.


--

But what it would mean to me personally is that Lebron is a guy who knows how to play the game, knows what the fans and the league wants to see, knows his strengths and cares about looking good on the court, having a good statline but ultimately being more or less content to not be 'the guy' and to not be 'the best ever' and to not be in any high stress, actual pressure situations. I think we have seen enough evidence about Lebron that he doesn't like high pressure situations, he'll activate 'god mode' on occasion but his career is just littered with examples of becoming strangely passive throughout important quarters, passing away 'the shot', missing 'the shot', **deciding to take a bathroom break before being reintroduced to Cleveland for the first time**, and other similar things. He is a potent and remarkable scorer when he wants to be, but being a big time scorer is to accept big time pressure overall and even though he is reliable for 27-30 any given night, and he'll drop 40 every so often, he's just overall not looking to string 40 point games together, not looking to go for 50, not looking to go for 60...etc. Maybe that's smart or whatever, it's appropriate for when you're on a stacked team and trying to protect your stats, but it's also, I think, another mark against him with regards to 'pressure'.

.... and then there's the flopping.
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