Official LBJ thread: 82 games too much man

Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:32 pm

I don't think Lebron is winning another championship for the next 2 years. Indiana and the Spurs took them to the brink; in addition, add the fact that Dwayne is a year older, and their supporting cast isn't young, I think they have to retool. Of course, that's my opinion.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby OX1947 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:49 pm

1950's: George Miken
1960's: Bill Russell/Wilt
1970's: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ***ABA: Dr. J
1980's: Magic/Bird
1990's: Michael Jordan
2000's: Kobe Bryant
2010's: Lebron James

It's Lebron James era right now. Kobe closed out his after Game 7. If Kobe happens to win another one before he is done, it is still Lebron's era. Nothing wrong with the process, soon, Lebron will be done in about 3-5 years and someone like Wiggens or whoever will own the league.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:01 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:The guy averaged 25.3pts 11rbs 7asst 2.3stls 1blk per game in the Finals.
He started the series slow & he had a few less than stellar moments but he absolutely took charge in the last two games when it was necessary. Everyone wants to simply say Ray Allen saved game 6, but forgets to mention that Lebron had 18 points in that 4th quarter...

He was garbage for the first few games. It wasn't even that he got off to a slow start. Through the first five games he averaged something like 21 points on 44% from the field. That's disgustingly bad for a guy who scores most of his points around the rim.

He was terrible.

He came alive in Game 7 when it counted most and he STARTED the drive in Game 6. But Ray was the hero of Game 6, not LeBron. And through the first 5 games of the series, LeBron was outplayed by Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:36 pm

TIME wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:Man there is some serious hate on LeBron...and I really don't get it...



I'll never like LeBron, and I'll always hate him no matter what he does. I hope he never comes to the Lakers. I know that sounds ridiculous but I don't wanna root for a douche that wants everything handed to him and guaranteed that he would win 7 or 8 titles....Eff him and eff the Miami Heat.



This wins my award for most unintentionally humorous post of the week.



LOL. Man I meant to say serious hate on LeBron's GAME...nobody can hate on his GAME....but I just dont like LeBron and I don't wish him any luck in the future...and i hate that he guaranteed so many titles and he's actually on his way to winning multiple championships....it sucks. I recognize he's super talented and the best in the game but it doesn't mean I want the guy to win or that I have to LIKE him.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:33 pm

therealdeal wrote:Anyone know where I can find a family of crows? :man10:

He was the best player when he needed to be. He won that game. Props to LeBron James. It seems he might actually have turned the corner that ESPN told me he did years ago.


Since we've joked about this you'll think I'm kidding but I have one living in the top of a 50' palm tree in the front yard. Or at least for past 10 years or so until maybe lately. Haven't seen them in past couple of months. Lucky for them..... huh? :man10: :man10:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby dmaul on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:42 pm

Best player in the last 15 years? Too early to say right now. That would be a slap in the face to Kobe and Duncan who are both top 10. But barring a career ending injury his trajectory has him headed in the direction of possibly top 5 when all said and done. A lot of people are catching flak in here for daring to say that LeBron could be in the top whatever of all time but in the end you won't be able to argue with his numbers, individual accomplishments, and number of championships. I get the reason for the hate, because of the way he's handled certain things and mostly because certain media members coddle him. He's always compared to the greatest of all time and hence is subjected to a higher grading scale than everyone else.

What's unfair is to say that he joined a bunch of other stars and occasionally gets bailed out in big games. Almost every hall of famer who's won multiple championships played with at least one other hall of famer. Yeah, they didn't do it in a narcissistic douchey way the way LeBron did it with a Decision and pre-season championship celebration, but decades from now no one is going to remember that. People will remember that he played with other great players just like how Magic, Bird, Jordan, et al. played with great players. And you can't tell me that those players never had a teammate help them out in a big game and helped to carry the load when they couldn't do it themselves.

My only criticism of LeBron is that he lacks persistent, unwavering killer instinct. He shows it in flashes but he's also been a coward many times in his past. But does this flaw take him out of the top 5 or top 10. I say no because he's so off the charts great at so many other things. I mean there have been lots of players who have killer instinct, are not afraid of the moment but they lack the athleticism and/or skill to show it to the world on a regular basis. There have been plenty of players who have amazing athleticism and skill but are afraid of pressure and the biggest stage. So I'll quantify it like this. If you could assign a rating to these two categories on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 the highest, to me, Michael Jordan is the only player in the history of the game who would be a 10 in killer instinct and a 10 in athleticism/skill. And I'm saying LeBron would be like 9 or 10 in athleticism/skill and 7 or 8 in killer instinct. And I think that's actually enough to make him better than a lot of other players on the all-time list. There's a significant gap between Jordan and whoever's #2. Not so much of a gap between #2 and everyone else.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Brando on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Regular Season MVP award has been a joke for years now its nothing more than a popularity contest the fact that LeBron has twice as many MVP's than Kobe and Shaq combined just proves my point.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:58 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:>>Man there is some serious hate on LeBron...<<


I, for one, do not hate LeBron James.

I do, however, hate the whole "Cult of LeBron James" that has been created by the media since day one.

I really hated the premature coronation of "King" James before James had accomplished anything of consequence in this league.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:30 pm

I don't hate him. In fact I enjoyed watching him play this playoffs. He had some Kobe-esque shots in the finals that were IMO pure hommage to Kobe.

I agree that the Cult of LeBron is really annoying, and IMO Stern can't retire soon enough, being the instigator of it all. Even some of the NBA TV personalities are backstepping over their previous lovefest comments for him. I'll agree that he's top 15, but he needs to win more to move up. And yes, I believe that Kobe is above him because he's accomplished more. Kobe might have a little window to move up too.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:49 pm

I don't understand all the people saying Lebron is being hated on in this thread. The only over the top comment came from one poster who insisted Lebron has been the best player for the last 15 years (hence the title) even though Lebron was drafted in 2003. What else has really been "hate"?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby bumrusherer on Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:04 am

I love Kobe..my fave Laker ever and I will defend his game until the day I die.

But that being said, Lebron is better and Lebron at his best is better than Kobe at his best. I think Lebron, as an individual talent, is the best individual talent since Jordan and he will win as many titles as his health permits him to win.

There isnt a flaw in his game. I found it remarkable that he shot 40% from 3..thats insane when you consider how funky his shot used to look.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby dmaul on Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:31 am

^ With the game on the line, historically, I'll take Kobe over LeBron in their primes. And I'm talking about the Kobe from 2000-03, not the Kobe from 2008 to now.

In today's NBA, with the game on the line, I've always felt Chris Paul and Kevin Durant were more clutch than LeBron, were less afraid of the big shot. LeBron will do all the other things and fill up the stat sheet to get his team to that point. Will he come through more times than not with the game on the line? We'll see what happens moving forward. Maybe this game 7 will be yet another turning point for him.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:02 am

bumrusherer wrote:I love Kobe..my fave Laker ever and I will defend his game until the day I die.

But that being said, Lebron is better and Lebron at his best is better than Kobe at his best. I think Lebron, as an individual talent, is the best individual talent since Jordan and he will win as many titles as his health permits him to win.

There isnt a flaw in his game. I found it remarkable that he shot 40% from 3..thats insane when you consider how funky his shot used to look.


If shooting 30 out of 81 outside the paint (most of them being practice shots) isn't a flaw , I don't know what it is

- He still isn't an under 80%FT shooter

- Footwork is poor ...

Give him a couple of floor spacing killer ala MWP and Gasol and let's see if he can shoot 56% in the regular season ....

He's obviously an all time great but don't underestimate the perfect small ball supporting cast put around him in Miami ...

I don't like Lebron's game because it's ugly ... great all around player but ugly looking game
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:05 am

awe I needed the Kobe vs Lebron debate..... :bow:
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:10 am

There is no debate; after listening to ESPN for an hour, I've decided that Lebron is the best player of all time. He has done it all. He is better then everybody that has came before him. He will be 5 more championships, 5 more Finals MVP's, and 5 more Regular Season MVP's. He's a stat machine. He's clutch. He's the face of the league. Yup. As far as the Lebron vs Kobe debate? Is there a debate? Lebron surpassed Kobe last year after his 1st ring.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:31 am

LeBron is the only player who can have fans of other teams going at their own fanclub in defense of his greatness. I've never seen other players experience this type of "WORSHIP". Yes I said "WORSHIP" because that's exactly what it is. People treat this guy like a God that's exempt from criticism. He's like the NBA version of Rihanna. They've acted like we didn't have other amazing players before him. If another player comes along and shoots a certain percentage would that make them surpass LeBron? The media builds a villain and a superhero. I've never seen Laker fans or fans in general go this hard for Kobe Bryant. I'm just going to be honest, call me a hater if you want to. The media is why I can't fully embrace LeBron .
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:33 am

It's okay to for your favorite player to belong to another team at the same time still be loyal to your hometown team, but geesh.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:41 am

Jazzygirl205 wrote:LeBron is the only player who can have fans of other teams going at their own fanclub in defense of his greatness .


Talk about buying into an "ESPN analysis," eh? LOL!

Leave us not forget that LeBron had to go to Miami and form a "super team" before he could be successful.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby charvin on Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:52 pm

In my opinion, he should not be in the discussion for GOAT, ever. Yes, as great an individual player he is (absolutely, the best athlete physically seen in the past 10-15 years), but because he had to form a Superteam to win championships, that, in my eyes, subtracts any credibility of his championships. It's been said before, and I agree with it, he lacks the killer instinct to completely push him over the top and actually be the GOAT.

The Miami Heat are absolutely playing well within the rules to attract free agents, but when you have everybody and their mother wanting to come to Miami to win, that completely undermines and destroyed whatever this new CBA was trying to achieve - parity.

Mr_Hollywood_Line wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:LeBron is the only player who can have fans of other teams going at their own fanclub in defense of his greatness .


Leave us not forget that LeBron had to go to Miami and form a "super team" before he could be successful.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby 432J on Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:35 pm

i think he could easily be the GOAT once he retires

but he's not anywhere close yet. i'd say right now he's around the top 15-20 all time but it's ridiculous to say he's the best player of the last 15 years. dude's only been playing for 10 years! kobe and duncan ruled the 2000s but lebron is the best player of this decade (the 2010s)
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby boquilla on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:32 pm

lebron "stat padding" james

game 2 and 4 are very good examples..
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:55 pm

charvin wrote:In my opinion, he should not be in the discussion for GOAT, ever. Yes, as great an individual player he is (absolutely, the best athlete physically seen in the past 10-15 years), but because he had to form a Superteam to win championships, that, in my eyes, subtracts any credibility of his championships. It's been said before, and I agree with it, he lacks the killer instinct to completely push him over the top and actually be the GOAT.

The Miami Heat are absolutely playing well within the rules to attract free agents, but when you have everybody and their mother wanting to come to Miami to win, that completely undermines and destroyed whatever this new CBA was trying to achieve - parity.


So the 80's Lakers can't have anyone in the conversation for the GOAT by that analysis.... neither can the 60's Celtics.... or the Spurs teams that have won 4 of 5...

That leaves only Jordan if you are going by that logic... :man10:

What is a "Super team" anyway? Kobe couldn't get our "Super Team" anywhere.... Shaq and Kobe had one in 2004 that was beat by a "nobody" team....

Miami was led to a championship by LeBron... I know that's hard to take for some of you but it's reality..... and it's reality that the other "super friends" would have failed with just about any other player in LeBron's spot.... so yeah.. I think he is in the conversation. Not at the top of it but definitely in it.... at 27.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Shadow on Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:17 pm

If the media would just shut up, I think Lebron would be one of my favorite players to watch. But the media makes it so easy for anyone to dislike Lebron. With that being said, you cant deny the guy's talent and what he has done over the course over his career. You have to credit were credit is due. Miami wont this series fair and square and showed they were the better team. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh have put their egos aside to bring back to back championships to Miami.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby TheOp on Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:56 pm

I dont mind Lebron so much as the annoying bandwagon fans of the Heat. 90 % of their fans either

A) Dont live in, or have never been to Miami

B) Never liked the Heat before they got Lebron and Bosh

C) Dont know anything about the team and probably couldnt name anyone on the team outside of Big 3

Their fans leaving game 6 early are so typical. Jump ship when it looks like seasons over, BEG to be let back in when they realize team still has a chance. I just hope we get back to the finals next year and beat them.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby charvin on Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:22 pm

My (shallow) statements and opinions will be based solely on the past 20 years give or take (when Jordan started repeating for the first time) so of course, my arguments for GOAT will be very limited to the past 20 years of what I've been able to see.

My one and only reason for not giving GOAT to LBJ (well, maybe two) is the fact that he had to collude/collaborate with Bosh and Wade to form the Superteam that the media have come to term it as and his mentality (as mentioned earlier).

I have no beef with this Spurs team (wanted them to win) because it was put together in the ideal and the proper way (if there ever is such a thing as a proper way to put together a team) through careful drafting over many years.

Heck, I have no problems with how this year's Lakers team was put together because it was executed through trades and not pre-planned. There is a problem when, in two years, you have players (who were good role players for their prior teams) such as Birdman, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller, Shane Battier who all flock to Miami to win.

You got me at the 2004 Lakers being beat by a 'nobody' (I wouldn't put the Pistons team as a nobody because now it would be saying that the 2013 Spurs are a nobody team also). This year's finals very closely resembles the 2004 finals because of a 'Superteam' vs. a 'Nobody' team, but that the Superteam prevailed in this case. It was a case of 2-3 superstars mashed with great, fitting role players vs. a team that prides itself on defense, cohesion, trust, and team play. It's been so long ago so I don't really remember the 2004 Lakers team all that well, but in that case, it was 4 superstars mashed with role players vs. a team that prides itself on defense, cohesion, trust, and team play. The kicker may be that the 4 superstars didn't really mesh well because I remember that 3 players had to ask PJax to go back to the Triangle (whether this is true, I don't know).

Rooscooter wrote:
charvin wrote:In my opinion, he should not be in the discussion for GOAT, ever. Yes, as great an individual player he is (absolutely, the best athlete physically seen in the past 10-15 years), but because he had to form a Superteam to win championships, that, in my eyes, subtracts any credibility of his championships. It's been said before, and I agree with it, he lacks the killer instinct to completely push him over the top and actually be the GOAT.

The Miami Heat are absolutely playing well within the rules to attract free agents, but when you have everybody and their mother wanting to come to Miami to win, that completely undermines and destroyed whatever this new CBA was trying to achieve - parity.


So the 80's Lakers can't have anyone in the conversation for the GOAT by that analysis.... neither can the 60's Celtics.... or the Spurs teams that have won 4 of 5...

That leaves only Jordan if you are going by that logic... :man10:

What is a "Super team" anyway? Kobe couldn't get our "Super Team" anywhere.... Shaq and Kobe had one in 2004 that was beat by a "nobody" team....

Miami was led to a championship by LeBron... I know that's hard to take for some of you but it's reality..... and it's reality that the other "super friends" would have failed with just about any other player in LeBron's spot.... so yeah.. I think he is in the conversation. Not at the top of it but definitely in it.... at 27.
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