Official LBJ thread: no more roid....errr..carbs =slim

Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby CGrand81 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:36 pm

He's the best player if not the second best player in this generation. You cannot get GOAT status LeBron but top 10 or top 5 are still in grasp.

I said it pre-finals, if I were him I'd leave Miami. It was a good run no doubt, but he made 52 million in endorsements last year, money aside if I were him I'd go to Houston. It'll be another ring or two if he goes there.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:40 pm

His Legacy: Coward.
His Legacy: Shying away from the big moments.
His Legacy: 2/5 in his Finals runs through 30 years old.

Until he changes that narrative, that's what he is. The most talented guy of his generation with the least amount of heart. Mikan, Russell, West, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, and obviously Jordan. None of them would have the 4th quarter numbers that he just gave in the Finals. Absolutely no way.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:42 pm

Lakers get Lebron, re-up Pau, draft Marcus Smart or Randle. Kobe back to 100%. Lakers hire Hollins or Scott and the Lakers have a team that can compete. Do it Mitch
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:44 pm

Some you guys hate so badly, it makes you look like fools. This is a team game. Lebron showed up, Wade and Bosh and everyone else on that team didnt.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 pm

CGrand81 wrote:He's the best player if not the second best player in this generation. You cannot get GOAT status LeBron but top 10 or top 5 are still in grasp.

I said it pre-finals, if I were him I'd leave Miami. It was a good run no doubt, but he made 52 million in endorsements last year, money aside if I were him I'd go to Houston. It'll be another ring or two if he goes there.


While Harden is younger than wade, and Howard is a better defender than bosh, it would be a lateral move considering Howard cant be trusted at the end of games and harden folds like a rusted sunbathing chair in the clutch.

If Lebron wants to win and win with solid cast. Commit to the Lakers and the Lakers will open up like a flower to free agents and everything that comes with building a title team quick. And he will have Kobe to close games out without worrying about the clutchness part. And Kobe can win 6 or 7 titles to end his career.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby JSM on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:49 pm

CGrand81 wrote:money aside if I were him I'd go to Houston. It'll be another ring or two if he goes there.

If he bolts again for greener pasture, he HAS to stay in the East. West is too talented and you don't get a cake walk to the Finals like you do in the East.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:53 pm

OX1947 wrote:Some you guys hate so badly, it makes you look like fools. This is a team game. Lebron showed up, Wade and Bosh and everyone else on that team didnt.

Doesn't one calling others "fools" for stating facts actually become the fool? Post like this are the exact reason I created this thread. Lebron is reportedly the greatest player in the game that makes EVERYONE better. His ability to get teammates going and to lead has been a staple of media praise. He consistently puts up an amazing quarter in a game as well as consistently fails to show up in the 4th especially with the team down. How is that hate? Can you honestly dispute those claims or is it simply just an ESPN said so thing?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby OX1947 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:13 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Some you guys hate so badly, it makes you look like fools. This is a team game. Lebron showed up, Wade and Bosh and everyone else on that team didnt.

Doesn't one calling others "fools" for stating facts actually become the fool? Post like this are the exact reason I created this thread. Lebron is reportedly the greatest player in the game that makes EVERYONE better. His ability to get teammates going and to lead has been a staple of media praise. He consistently puts up an amazing quarter in a game as well as consistently fails to show up in the 4th especially with the team down. How is that hate? Can you honestly dispute those claims or is it simply just an ESPN said so thing?


Lebron is REPORTEDLY the greatest. bac in March, Durant is the greatest. For a week in 2005, Gilbert Arenas was the greatest scorer in NBA history. It's all one big **** off. Just because a couple of yahoos says he has to make everyone better, doesnt mean he does. But he can ball. Jordan lost 3 years in a row to the Pistons. Does that mean he didnt motivate his teammates? It's a team sport. It's 4 finals in a row, sometimes you run out of gas, you choke, a lot of things come up. Look at San Antonio last year. Manu looked like manure. Spurs were choking like Mitch Williams in Toronto for 4 straight years whether it was blowing 2-0 leads or getting knocked out of the first round as a #1 seed or losing up 5 points with 28 secs left.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby John3:16 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:16 pm

OX1947 wrote:Lakers get Lebron, re-up Pau, draft Marcus Smart or Randle. Kobe back to 100%. Lakers hire Hollins or Scott and the Lakers have a team that can compete. Do it Mitch



You lost me at "re-up Pau."
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Aonex on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:22 pm

Honestly it looked like LeBron didn't care if he won tonight... makes me think he's done in Miami.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Whats in the legacy?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:22 pm

OX1947 wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
OX1947 wrote:Some you guys hate so badly, it makes you look like fools. This is a team game. Lebron showed up, Wade and Bosh and everyone else on that team didnt.

Doesn't one calling others "fools" for stating facts actually become the fool? Post like this are the exact reason I created this thread. Lebron is reportedly the greatest player in the game that makes EVERYONE better. His ability to get teammates going and to lead has been a staple of media praise. He consistently puts up an amazing quarter in a game as well as consistently fails to show up in the 4th especially with the team down. How is that hate? Can you honestly dispute those claims or is it simply just an ESPN said so thing?


Lebron is REPORTEDLY the greatest. bac in March, Durant is the greatest. For a week in 2005, Gilbert Arenas was the greatest scorer in NBA history. It's all one big **** off. Just because a couple of yahoos says he has to make everyone better, doesnt mean he does. But he can ball. Jordan lost 3 years in a row to the Pistons. Does that mean he didnt motivate his teammates? It's a team sport. It's 4 finals in a row, sometimes you run out of gas, you choke, a lot of things come up. Look at San Antonio last year. Manu looked like manure. Spurs were choking like Mitch Williams in Toronto for 4 straight years whether it was blowing 2-0 leads or getting knocked out of the first round as a #1 seed or losing up 5 points with 28 secs left.


Now he is "reportedly" the greatest? That has been the whole point. If he is the greatest then he holds the blame when they lose just as he gets the credit when they win. I don't knock your point but calling people fools for calling out the REPORTEDLY greatest player ever is simply wrong. Yes this is a team game yet when Bosh goes off and basically hits all the big shots Lebron passes up who gets all the praise and glory? Bosh? LMAO... Lebron does for getting him the ball and making him better. People looking at stats are running around right now saying how Lebron SHOWED up in the finals cause he put up 30 points yet are ignoring a 4-point average in the 4th quarter for the series. Luke Walton could put up 4 points in the 4th quarter in the finals.

Im sorry but this guy has been touted the greatest player we have seen BY FAR by many media and fan alike. When he fails by getting blown out 4 straight games then he deserves the spotlight on him. Not one time, not two times, not 3 times, not four, not five, not six and not seven times.... Its going to be easy to call him out. DESERVEDLY so.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:27 pm

The LeBron stuff is getting a little over the top. Of all the players I've seen I'd say he ranks pretty damn high. As for the championship thing..... slamming a player for a team accomplishment is not really logical. No one player has ever won a championship by themselves. In fact some of the best championship teams are 5 to 7 deep with very good players.

This year's SA team is a perfect example of that. Now.... realistically if you were starting a team tomorrow and had your choice of any player that played in this series.... who would it be?

I don't like the guy and he's waaaaay over exposed but he's still the best player in the game today and has been for 4 years and will be for 4 more.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby TIME on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:30 pm

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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Forward Three on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:32 pm

You can't really pin these Finals on Lebron. He was the only Heat player who consistently played at a Finals level. Except, then you look closer, and he really kind of didn't. His stats tell you that he did. His scoring compared to the rest of the Heat tell you that he did. But the tale of the tape is a different story. More accurately, he showed up and played between 10 and 12 minutes of exceptionally good, 4x MVP caliber basketball each game and otherwise was quiet.

So we come around to why. Why is it that the supposed greatest player on the planet who has the most naturally gifted basketball adonis body and some of the most impressive athleticism we've ever seen seemingly unable to actually go 100% in a Finals? For a long time we've chalked it up to lack of heart, lack of grit, an innate passivity of sorts, likely derived from how effortlessly he's been dominant his entire life. Fairly intuitive assessment. But this series has revealed another explanation that I think has otherwise been hiding in plain sight for the past several years due in part to how much help he's had but also due to the constant, constant, barrage of "Lebron is the most naturally gifted athlete ever, prime specimen, best athlete in the league".

That second explanation, that seemed so alien just a few years ago is this:
He can't play a full game of basketball at full intensity. He is literally incapable of it.

Okay, so that's a bit extreme. He's had some good wire-to-wire performances scattered throughout his Heat years, but the prevailing story has been more about how he's been able to do more with less minutes, be more efficient, spend extra stretches on the bench thanks to Wade and Bosh being able to run the team...etc. Effectively, his physical limitations have been largely masked and on top of it all he's a smart enough player to know how to adjust his game accordingly to when he's not 'feeling it' or whatever.

Now, it's fair enough to say, okay, no one plays more minutes than he does, and it's basically true, even the people who have played more raw minutes haven't done so with his responsibilities. It's also fair to say that 4 straight deep playoffs runs will take a toll on anybody. But I don't think that really tells the whole story either. I think what we saw from Lebron this Finals was that being 6'8/255(or whatever) and being as fast and powerful as he is... actually does have a drawback. He actually can't keep up the way he used to be able to, he actually can't run his motor for long stretches and if and when he exerts himself and the team can't match that, they're in a world of hurt when diminished Lebron has to finish the game.

I kept waiting, kind of hoping, that Lebron would wake up again and have another big quarter, but it just never came. He scored a bit more of course, but he wasn't looking to press the issue like he was out the gate. He wasn't looking to scatter the defense and make them think about anything. He was perfectly content to pass early, wait for the play to come around, or go for the occasional mismatch drive or random three.


Heat Fans will protest for years that Lebron was dominant in these Finals, they'll talk about his averages, and it's hard to argue that he wasn't great, especially since the Heat overall rolled over an died. But realistically, he gave you a game's worth of production in concentrated spurts and then became almost a direct liability as he suddenly found himself lagging to get back defensively, letting guys blow by him and finish in the post over him, not being able to split doubles as well, not being able to athletically surge into the lane and find an open shooter, not being able to take full advantage of his greatest attribute -- his devastating first step....etc.

So that's Lebron. That's what we've finally found out. That he does in fact have a ceiling and it's not that he doesn't have help so much as by the time he needs it, he's no longer as capable of running the show either.

-

Then the Heat just up and died. So we say "Wow, it's Cavaliers all over again" and "where's the help?" and "Lebron just needs...". But I start to question all of that too. Granted we only have a small sample size of 2-ish teams(depending on lineups) but we've now seen Lebron's teams get worse in direct correlation with him taking command of them. This flies in the face of all the talk about how great of a facilitator he is, how he 'makes his teammates better'. He is an excellent passer and he likes to find the open man and he's not an attack-first sort of player but I think the meta-argument that he makes his teams better might need some rethinking in light of what we've seen. There's more evidence to suggest that he needed to find a better team first and that as soon as he became 'the man' the same symptoms from Cleveland began to emerge again, than there is that he is a great leader who inspires and motivates his teams to find extra-normal greatness. The Heat had more than adequate personnel to make it work, but where was their Kawhi Leonard or Patty Mills? Where was their step-up-and-play inspiration? Why did they all wilt on the back burner of Lebron's dominant single quarter-per-game play?

Meanwhile you have that "follow my lead" pre-game talk and I mean, since when is that good leadership? You're the only person who can do what you do, Bron. Wade could when he was healthier, but now it's only you. They can't 'follow' that, and you can't just will them into intensity by dazzling them with your greatness. If I'm a musician I don't tell a band "just follow my lead" and start complex soloing for 5 minutes. And especially if your lead-by-example tactic is going to burn out by the second quarter when you suddenly can't keep up that pace anymore, what then? how exactly are you this great floor general?

Anyway. This'll be my last big post on Lebron I think. Lebron has been a lot of fun. Fun to watch, fun to hate on, fun to begrudgingly respect and admire, fun to debate over, and at the end of the day if we were to ever meet in person I'd be completely thrilled. But from my armchair internet warrior stance. I've seen enough. Ready for the next big thing, if it turns out to the back 9 of Lebron's career, then great, but something tells me it won't be.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:34 pm

Roo- Most talented player by far. Best? I have said before I don't trust the man to do what it takes to win and that was proven time and again until realistically game 7 of last years Finals. That is the only game where, I personally felt, Lebron was simply amazing on the biggest stage. I think the guy is an amazing player with the heart of the tin man from the Whiz. I'd personally take Timmy D if I was starting a franchise with one of the players from this series but thats just me the obvious Lebron hater as Im told.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:51 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Roo- Most talented player by far. Best? I have said before I don't trust the man to do what it takes to win and that was proven time and again until realistically game 7 of last years Finals. That is the only game where, I personally felt, Lebron was simply amazing on the biggest stage. I think the guy is an amazing player with the heart of the tin man from the Whiz. I'd personally take Timmy D if I was starting a franchise with one of the players from this series but thats just me the obvious Lebron hater as Im told.


I realize what you are saying.... but the analyst in me see the Laker's last championship and their best player's performance as well. You think he win's number 5 without Fisher or Artest? Me either..... Nobody on Miami showed up other than LeBron.... no one.

The reality is that teams win championships. Fans attach that to players somewhat irrationally but they are led there by the media and marketing IMO. LeBron is not a likable star IMO.... but he's the most balanced player I've seen in a long time. The Heat fell apart a lot like the 04 Laker's did. Very similar series in fact.

Interesting that we see this so differently.... to me Tim Duncan is probably the most overrated player of the last 20 years. Not that I don't think he's a great player but I don't think he's been a the transcending player he gets credit for. He's faded in big games a lot more than he's led in them.....
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:32 pm

Tomorrow I still will be Lebron James and live my life the way I want to while y'all have to go back to the real world and your problems in your life
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby v1n5anity on Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:44 pm

So here's something I noticed about LeBron:

2010
LeBron quits against Boston multiple games, most notably in a PIVOTAL game 5 (series tied 2-2) when they got blown out by 32 at home. Ends with 15 points on 3-14 shooting (-22). Nice statline the next game but he checked out (knowing that was his last game as a Cavalier). Then he "decides" to go to Miami.

2011
This is where we truly saw on the grand stage that LeBron has issues in pressure moments. He choked in multiple games, most notably games 4-6. Had 8 points in game 4, choked in 4th quarters all series long (see below) where he averaged about 3 points per 4th quarter in the 6 game series. He scored 17 and 21 points in games 5 and 6, respectively, and averaged just 15.3ppg in the last 3 games of the series (lost all 3).

Image

2012
Won championship. This was his year. 100% credit for this one.

2013
Won but got real lucky they didn't lose game 6 down 3-2 and down 5 with just 28.3 seconds left in the game after 2 terrible LeBron turnovers. Was tentative for most of first 6 games. They dared him to shoot and he wasn't confident. Diaw held him to 3-21 shooting in the series when he guarded him. Games 1-3 he was straight scared and clearly took a step back mentally, averaging just 16.7 ppg in the first 3 games. Game 4 Wade carried them but LeBron ended up scoring like 9 points in the last couple minutes of garbage time to pad his stats and end up with more points than Wade. Game 5 he goes 8-22 and lost. Game 6 was pretty bad for most of game (until first half of 4th) and would've ended the series with 2 terrible turnovers and elimination. It was going to be the same story all over again for LeBron. But of course, he got real lucky that Ray Allen saved his a**. He went off in game 7 and all of a sudden we're hearing he's GOAT, and something about Mount Rushmore lol.

2014
Played well first 2 games, showed up for 3 quarters total during games 3-5. Game 3 he shows up for first quarter for 14 points, ends with 22 points with 7 turnovers (-21). All while getting completely owned on defense. Game 4 doesn't show up first half with only 9 points and down 19 (-15) then he scores a meaningless 19 in the 3rd to pad his stats and ends with 28 and 8. Game 5 comes out strong in first quarter had 17-6-1 only 14-4-4 rest of game and couldn't stop the bleeding in the 2nd quarter when Heat as a team scored 11 points and he had just 3.

End result: if Spurs close out game 6 last year as they should've, we're looking at LeBron quitting/choking in multiple games in a series (and these are PIVOTAL games) in 4 of the last 5 years! Including 3 of the last 4 Finals. If the East wasn't so weak, they wouldn't have made the Finals 4 straight years. Have they faced even 1 true contender in the East during the last 4 seasons? I don't believe so.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:47 pm

Forward Three wrote:You can't really pin these Finals on Lebron. He was the only Heat player who consistently played at a Finals level. Except, then you look closer, and he really kind of didn't. His stats tell you that he did. His scoring compared to the rest of the Heat tell you that he did. But the tale of the tape is a different story. More accurately, he showed up and played between 10 and 12 minutes of exceptionally good, 4x MVP caliber basketball each game and otherwise was quiet.

So we come around to why. Why is it that the supposed greatest player on the planet who has the most naturally gifted basketball adonis body and some of the most impressive athleticism we've ever seen seemingly unable to actually go 100% in a Finals? For a long time we've chalked it up to lack of heart, lack of grit, an innate passivity of sorts, likely derived from how effortlessly he's been dominant his entire life. Fairly intuitive assessment. But this series has revealed another explanation that I think has otherwise been hiding in plain sight for the past several years due in part to how much help he's had but also due to the constant, constant, barrage of "Lebron is the most naturally gifted athlete ever, prime specimen, best athlete in the league".

That second explanation, that seemed so alien just a few years ago is this:
He can't play a full game of basketball at full intensity. He is literally incapable of it.

Okay, so that's a bit extreme. He's had some good wire-to-wire performances scattered throughout his Heat years, but the prevailing story has been more about how he's been able to do more with less minutes, be more efficient, spend extra stretches on the bench thanks to Wade and Bosh being able to run the team...etc. Effectively, his physical limitations have been largely masked and on top of it all he's a smart enough player to know how to adjust his game accordingly to when he's not 'feeling it' or whatever.

Now, it's fair enough to say, okay, no one plays more minutes than he does, and it's basically true, even the people who have played more raw minutes haven't done so with his responsibilities. It's also fair to say that 4 straight deep playoffs runs will take a toll on anybody. But I don't think that really tells the whole story either. I think what we saw from Lebron this Finals was that being 6'8/255(or whatever) and being as fast and powerful as he is... actually does have a drawback. He actually can't keep up the way he used to be able to, he actually can't run his motor for long stretches and if and when he exerts himself and the team can't match that, they're in a world of hurt when diminished Lebron has to finish the game.

I kept waiting, kind of hoping, that Lebron would wake up again and have another big quarter, but it just never came. He scored a bit more of course, but he wasn't looking to press the issue like he was out the gate. He wasn't looking to scatter the defense and make them think about anything. He was perfectly content to pass early, wait for the play to come around, or go for the occasional mismatch drive or random three.


Heat Fans will protest for years that Lebron was dominant in these Finals, they'll talk about his averages, and it's hard to argue that he wasn't great, especially since the Heat overall rolled over an died. But realistically, he gave you a game's worth of production in concentrated spurts and then became almost a direct liability as he suddenly found himself lagging to get back defensively, letting guys blow by him and finish in the post over him, not being able to split doubles as well, not being able to athletically surge into the lane and find an open shooter, not being able to take full advantage of his greatest attribute -- his devastating first step....etc.

So that's Lebron. That's what we've finally found out. That he does in fact have a ceiling and it's not that he doesn't have help so much as by the time he needs it, he's no longer as capable of running the show either.

-

Then the Heat just up and died. So we say "Wow, it's Cavaliers all over again" and "where's the help?" and "Lebron just needs...". But I start to question all of that too. Granted we only have a small sample size of 2-ish teams(depending on lineups) but we've now seen Lebron's teams get worse in direct correlation with him taking command of them. This flies in the face of all the talk about how great of a facilitator he is, how he 'makes his teammates better'. He is an excellent passer and he likes to find the open man and he's not an attack-first sort of player but I think the meta-argument that he makes his teams better might need some rethinking in light of what we've seen. There's more evidence to suggest that he needed to find a better team first and that as soon as he became 'the man' the same symptoms from Cleveland began to emerge again, than there is that he is a great leader who inspires and motivates his teams to find extra-normal greatness. The Heat had more than adequate personnel to make it work, but where was their Kawhi Leonard or Patty Mills? Where was their step-up-and-play inspiration? Why did they all wilt on the back burner of Lebron's dominant single quarter-per-game play?

Meanwhile you have that "follow my lead" pre-game talk and I mean, since when is that good leadership? You're the only person who can do what you do, Bron. Wade could when he was healthier, but now it's only you. They can't 'follow' that, and you can't just will them into intensity by dazzling them with your greatness. If I'm a musician I don't tell a band "just follow my lead" and start complex soloing for 5 minutes. And especially if your lead-by-example tactic is going to burn out by the second quarter when you suddenly can't keep up that pace anymore, what then? how exactly are you this great floor general?

Anyway. This'll be my last big post on Lebron I think. Lebron has been a lot of fun. Fun to watch, fun to hate on, fun to begrudgingly respect and admire, fun to debate over, and at the end of the day if we were to ever meet in person I'd be completely thrilled. But from my armchair internet warrior stance. I've seen enough. Ready for the next big thing, if it turns out to the back 9 of Lebron's career, then great, but something tells me it won't be.

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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Frank Dux on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:06 pm

For me this loss kinda is on Lebron. He's supposedly the "greatest teammate ever", he "makes everyone better". IMO he stat padded quit a bit throughout the finals and played putrid defense at times. The team is built around Lebron, he's the one who gets the rock, so it's upto him to make the right plays, and take over when needed. He didn't make the plays for his teammates, nor did he go on obscene superstar scoring binges like Mike.

He's talented enough to put up 28/5/5 in his sleep, but the man refuses to go down firing. That's what separates him from Mike and Kobe.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Nashty Gal on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:22 pm

some people are saying lebron is 2-3 in the finals. isn't he 2-5? he sucks :man1:
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Kobe on talk with Pau about being more aggressive, "it's against his nature, he's always very nice, very white swan, I need him to be black swan"

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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby John3:16 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:25 pm

^^^ 2 wins and 3 losses.

2 for 5.

Guess it's how you word it.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Nashty Gal on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:40 pm

ohh gotcha ^
The Black Mamba and the White Swan
Kobe on talk with Pau about being more aggressive, "it's against his nature, he's always very nice, very white swan, I need him to be black swan"

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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby LakeShow85 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:02 am

When it comes to athleticism, Lebron is a monster. Strong, fast and great leaping ability. What he does is he utilizes his athleticism to best show off this ability.

But when it comes to a Mt. Rushmore of basketball type of player, I feel that he is lacking in some areas that at this stage in his career he should have definitely learned to develop. Although this is not so much a knock on Lebron, it's just not in his makeup. He can't be something he is not.

I got into it with some Lebron homers on Hoopshype on how efficiency/stats has a tendency to sometimes lie to you. You look at a stat line like 28.7ppg, 8.5rpg, 8.5apg on 59% shooting and TS% of 67% and a PER of 31.9 and someone might think "oh my lord, this guy is amazing, look at those numbers, there is no doubt he is the best player on the team, in the league, in the state, in the nation, on the continent, on the planet, in the universe.

How can a guy average those numbers in a playoff series, win a championship, and finals MVP and not be considered a top 5 player or even G.O.A.T."

What I was trying to let them see is that while those numbers are impressive, it doesn't tell you the whole story.

What I saw in these Finals continuously from Lebron in all 5 games was him getting his numbers somewhere near his stat line whether it was the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter and then just going through the motions the remainder of the time. This way when people look back at the numbers they will always see him as a great player because he is so efficient.

As a Mt. Rushmoresque player, (like everyone is trying to make him out to be) there comes a time where you have to do whatever it takes to win, when you are not on your game, if that means play defense, you do it, pass, you do it, score, you do it. The intangibles. Something every great players has had, every legend. (I'll never forget Kobe game 7 of the 2010 Finals against those guys)

What Lebron has always struggled with in his career is knowing "when" and in some cases "how" to do these things.

Too many times has he shied away from the ball in critical moments when scoring was needed. Too many times has he just been on the court going through the motions. What I've seen in pretty much every legend or great player is that will to win. Lebron doesn't possess this, he needs everything to be in place in order to be at full strength. If he has all the pieces right then he is at his best.

If you look at Lebron, not only his stats, but his full game and actually watch what he does, real people would see him more to be like a glorified Scottie Pippen. I'm sorry for any Lebron fans on here, but he seems to be built for this role, which is why he has a hard time being "the man".

He also doesn't and has never really had that "killer instinct" to close out a game and/or quarter that other leaders have had. Tying the game or bringing it close is not really being a killer, which Lebron can do in his sleep, it's the "after" that he struggles with.

He can go down as possibly a top 10 player, but G.O.A.T. status I believe he will never reach.
If it doesn't matter who wins then why do they keep score?
Is it possible to have 2 G.O.A.T.'s
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Re: Official LBJ thread: 2/5 Finals! Lets talk REAL legacy

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:03 am

"LeBron, who do you think should take the biggest pay cut this summer?"


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