Official LBJ thread: No Respect for MJ? 23 returns

Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby 24/23goats on Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:14 pm

What does it matter where he takes his shots or how close they are to the rim? It still goes in and the points still count. If he was like perkins who just gets the ball close and dunks it then you would have a points because someone else is doing the work for him, but lebron usually takes it from the top to the hole in a couple strides to score while getting hit the whole way which is pretty amazing. The only thing I wouldnt count are fast break oops cause you dont really have to do anything besides catch and dunk.

Hes shooting a better 3pt % than ray allen and is shooting more of them than last year which is surprising to everyone. Also IMO its harder to keep driving, taking hits, and somehow still making them then it is to keep shooting so i dont like that excuse about where his shots are. He's already fixed almost every criticism people have given him and you guys still have to find the tiniest things to focus on.

I agree with people saying he really doesnt have a go-to move, he just drives and scores with pure power and a soft touch at the same time which is really special. Most people need the moves to get around people so they dont hit them and they can score. lebron just skipped a step and just takes the hits and still manages to put the right touch on it to score.

I dont think anyone should be compared to MJ because no one will beat his legacy so all this talk is nonsense. It looks like Im nut hugging LBJ but we are watching greatness even if its from someone I really disklike
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:28 pm

It matters if you are comparing him to Jordan..Do you read posts? A lot of Jordan's shots came outside of the paint.

Also LeBron is not in the top 50 in 3-Point FGM, FYI. So theoretically, Dwight, having taken like 1 or 2 threes this year, has a HIGHER PERCENTAGE than LeBron. WTF does that tell me?

No one is denying he is great. But when you're 6-8, 280 of muscle, and that fast...you're doing most of the "hitting".

Said it before and I will again. He's a top player. He's great. But my beef comes when you put him in the same breath as Michael and Kobe overall.

He's just not there.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby MadMax on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:40 pm

Did he shave his head bald?
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby 24/23goats on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:19 pm

apparently you cant comprehend things so ill explain it more. Yes dwight could be averaging 100% if he took one 3 and made it..a third grader can tell you that and idk why you felt the need to say it. Has lebron taken only one 3 this season? No? Did I say that hes in the top 50 for 3s? No? So what is your post trying to say? I said this season which is more than half done lebron has shot a higher 3pt % than ray allen. 62-82 is crazy idc what you say.

your just pissed cause someone is as good as kobe except more efficient lol.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:46 pm

Not really, I'm willing to give LeBron his due. He's really fun to watch. But I've been watching this 4th quarter of the Heat versus the Thunder, and While I've been watching LeBron has made one three, missed one three, and dunked four times. Like I said in earlier post, if you watch the game, not the highlights, you'll see he dunks like 60-80% of the time. That explains the super high FG%.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:48 pm

And he just missed a midrange jumper, that was uncontested.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:50 pm

And he just blew a bullet pass.

But he made up for it with a , you guessed it, DUNK!!
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:53 pm

And he just missed a three.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby 24/23goats on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:57 pm

i stopped watching the game cause it was getting boring, but did you watch the first half? he was drilling shots in peoples faces and creating his own space for some jumpers.

edit: idk whats the problem with dunks though, yea they exaggerate FG% but if you could almost guarantee 2 points by dunking and it works almost every time then why not? its not like getting into the lane and dunking is easy or we would have alot more people averaging lebrons numbers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:58 pm

So 14/24 tonight, which is about 58%. Pretty good, but the fourth quarter looked to me like missed jumpers and made dunks.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby KB24 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:59 am

If a player CAN dunk then kudos to him because most players can't do it like LeBron even if they wanted to.

He is making great decisions and doing what everybody wants to do but can't.

are we going to discredit Shaq because he dunked the ball? If you're that dominant to be able to do so, you should get all the credit.

Bottom line: LeBron is an incredible player doing incredible things. No ifs or buts, period. If anybody disagrees, then rest assured you're dead wrong.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:05 am

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:So 14/24 tonight, which is about 58%. Pretty good, but the fourth quarter looked to me like missed jumpers and made dunks.


you should watch the 1st half ... a mix of off balance/ standstill in your face jumper ala Kobe in the 2nd quarter
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Finwë on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:10 am

KB24 wrote:If a player CAN dunk then kudos to him because most players can't do it like LeBron even if they wanted to.

He is making great decisions and doing what everybody wants to do but can't.

are we going to discredit Shaq because he dunked the ball? If you're that dominant to be able to do so, you should get all the credit.

Bottom line: LeBron is an incredible player doing incredible things. No ifs or buts, period. If anybody disagrees, then rest assured you're dead wrong.

I agree, but I don't think VVVV was trying to discredit LeBron, just clarifying that it's not like his jumpshot is the best in the league and he's this amazing shooter that can't miss and that's how he's shooting such a high %, no, most of his high % is due to him taking very high percentage shots, most of them in the paint, many of them fastbreak dunks. LeBron is finally fully taking advantage of his superior athleticism in terms of an all-around athletic package, and it's paying off, he's taking the ball to the basket more frequently and more effectively (something he should've been doing since 2005 but whatever) and the threat of it is giving him more space to shoot than most wing players enjoy. On top of it he's not forcing ANY shots at all, the only shots he takes are either wide open or with a man on him but when he's really feeling it and has rythm. He doesn't take half-court heaves, he doesn't take last second bailout shots.. He's got space from shooters and no bigs clogging the lane, he's got the freak athleticism, he's got an improve shot and lots of room to take it, he's got a fantastic team that allows him to let the game come to him and not having pressure to score himself on every trip.

Regarding discrediting dunks and Shaq and all that, I would never say that doing mostly dunks and close range little hooks made Shaq a lesser player, no, he was dominant and extremely productive. I would say however that I value a display of skills way more than a display of simple physical dominance, and in that sense I find, say, Dirk Nowitzki more fun to watch than Shaq. Or I find Kobe (or Durant) more fun to watch than LeBron. It's skills, footwork, fundamentals, shooting form, variety of moves, etc, what does it for me as a basketball fan. I find it purer. Not saying it's better, because at this level, where getting Ws is all that matters, it's not. But I do find one more worthy of praise than the other, and it's Kobe's footwork, it's Nash's pull-up technique, it's Dirk's release, it's clutchness, it's toughness and playing through injury, it's finetuning and hard work. Not jumping higher and running faster just because you are a superior athlete, or backing people down just because you are bigger and stronger. Fundamentals and skills > athletic build, in terms of what I value the most in basketball as a sport.
(Not saying LeBron's not skilled btw, not even close, he's very skilled in many areas. I do find his game ugly sometimes, I don't like it when he just bullies his way to the hoop and the comentators go like "freight train" and all that. But still, this was more a general thing, not necessarily particulary directed at LBJ.)
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby nameant on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:08 am

There is absolutely no parody in the NBA right now. There are many 2-3 title contenders in the league, and that's a stretch. Who in the east will challenge the Heat? Nobody is worth a damn in the east. In the west, the Thunder are the best but I've never believed in the Thunder, they're just not a legit title contender in my eyes. The Clippers aren't there, the Spurs might look great but they've looked great the past 3-4 years...I just don't believe in them. I can't remember the last time the champ was so clear-cut from day 1. What happened to the NBA?
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:03 am

The new CBA happened. Instead of OKC and Memphis adding more pieces to their contending teams, they had to cut players and replace them with cheaper versions.

The there's us, the new NY Knicks.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby DJ-RaZ-Q#24 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:51 pm

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/allstar/2013/02/15/20130215-all-star-lebron-james-interview.nba

It's so funny how pissed he reacts when he's confronted with Kobe being taken over him by MJ :man10: :man10: :man10:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby dmaul on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:06 pm

^ Jordan only picks Kobe because he feels his legacy is more threatened by LeBron at the moment. Kobe never got as much love and never got consideration for possibly being better than Jordan. He was, at best, regarded to be in the ballpark of Jordan, the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan. Never talked about as being better. And the stats bear that out as well. Kobe will not win another MVP, will not increase his scoring average, FG%, and probably won't win another championship.

But now people are saying LeBron could possibly be the best ever. And his stats have a chance of eclipsing Jordan's. He only trails in the championship department but he has time to close in on that. I think it's unfair to players, current and former, to compare them to each other. Let time pass and then we'll judge when their careers are all said and done.

But I take no stock in what Jordan says. He's a miserable SOB who thinks he's the greatest ever, wants everyone to also think he's the greatest ever and doesn't want to entertain the idea that someone could be close to him or even better.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:02 pm

LeBron is going to win his 4th MVP in 5 years. I wouldn't blame MJ for feeling threatened

I don't think LeBron will surpass him as the GOAT but he sure has a better chance to do it than anyone else up to this point.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:50 am

I'm browsing other forums and I'm shocked **sarcasm** at all of this hate and animosity towards Micheal Jordan because how dare he question LeBron Jame's game? Didn't he do the same to Kobe when Kobe said he think the players of today's "Redeem Team" could be the Dream Team? Everyone applauded and clapped it up when he said that. Even on some forums said "MJ got in his behind".

What happened to "No matter what he does he'll never be better than MJ" talk? What happened to people arguing like a pack of wolves with a foaming mouth any time someone dare compare any other player to Micheal Jordan? I can see why some Kobe fans are salty with the media because all of the years Kobe was bashed and made sure to stay in his lane when compared to yester year's golden boy, people, even older players who often placed MJ on a pedestal are turning out MJ and discredting his titles talking about how great Pippen was. I've even seen people discredit older players like Magic and a few others in defense of LeBron. LeBron's basically putting on the same show other dominant players have done which is go on these streaks and hit up records, his athleticism makes it even more exciting. All of the rap songs out there referencing MJ superior to a lesser Pippen now Pippen and MJ's supporting cast are all of sudden a golden standard as into LBJ is all of a sudden better? Didn't Kobe fans used to do that in the past and if I'm not mistaking Kobe fans were basically written off as insane, delusional nutcases that didn't know any better for even thinking so? One thing MJ and LeBron definitely have in common is the ever building "untouchable status" created by the media and fans. Not even the late great MJ dare question LeBron.

I want to see LeBron in person, he's like the only superstar after Kobe retires I can see in person with similar abilities, since I never could see Kobe, but I just wanted to address all of this sudden flip flopping.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:27 pm

First off, I don't want to try and discredit the guy, he's a great player, an all-time great already. That said, I think a lot needs to be said about the competition these guys played against, and the rules they played under. Jordan's comments about LeBron being able to play in his era, but not being as successful in his era, and rolling his eyes and almost getting mad when LeBron was compared to Oscar Robertson, got me thinking. Again, I think LeBron is great, I'm not taking away from his ring, a ring is a ring, but when you start saying LeBron is getting close to Jordan, that he could pass him someday, that he's better than Kobe even, I have to shake my head and say something. I think LeBron would still be great in the 80's and 90's NBA, but not THIS great, not this dominant, and a lot of that has to do with competition.

I think competition matters, and who has LeBron beat that's as impressive as anyone MJ and Kobe beat? Some teams he's been through in the East in his runs to the Finals wouldn't have even made the playoffs if this were the era Jordan played in, or even the early 2000's teams Kobe and Shaq went through. Not talking about record, talking about talent, a lot of these teams are crap compared to the all time great teams Jordan went through and the teams filled with quality vets that gave Kobe and Shaq all they could handle 2000-2002. Competition matters, which is why I'd say without hesitation that Kobe's 2010 title is better than his 2009 title. 2009 we didn't play a ton of great teams, we played Utah, we played a way undermanned Houston team that took us to 7 games, and we played Denver, then we beat a Magic team that really wasn't that impressive in the Finals. 2010, we beat the up and coming Thunder, a bit better Jazz team, and a really good Phoenix team, and then of course got our revenge on a great Boston team. The early 2000's though, no comparison, ridiculously tough veteran teams that were smart, played ball the right way, played defense, that was oldschool stuff, teams like Portland, Sacremento, San Antonio, those teams blow away any team LeBron has faced, maybe ever. And this is when defense was allowed, hand checking was still allowed, big men still ruled the game and they were skilled and battled.

Then you have Jordan, the guy faced Bird's Celtics teams, Isiah's Pistons, Magic's Lakers, Drexler's Blazers, Chuck's Suns, Payton's Sonics, Stockton and Malone's Jazz, some of the best Knicks teams over year after year, some of the best Pacers teams ever, the competition blows away anything LeBron has faced. These are all time greats, this is when defense was played and allowed and could be fierce, when players were men and they were smart, at the peak of the league and fundamental greats IMO.

Now we come to LeBron, and again, I'm not trying to take away from the guy, you can only play who you play, but I'm pointing out why I think it's ridiculous to say he's reaching Jordan, or even Kobe. Who has LeBron had to play? What defense is really played in this league anymore? HIs scoring stretch with ridiculous shooting percentages was super impressive, but do you honestly think this happens in the 80's against real defense, or even the 90's or early 2000's when handchecking was still allowed? The league is garbage overall right now, a handful of actual title contenders at BEST, a bunch of nobody players on crap teams that literally aren't allowed to touch anyone on the perimeter or bang in the post on D, especially on guys like LeBron. So if you have that combo, of course you're going to have a guy as good as LeBron, a guy so much more talented than all but a few, head and shoulders above the majority of garbage nobodies in the NBA today, young players with games based on nothing but athleticism and jacking up shots, lacking so much fundamentals and defense like Jordan himself said.

Back to my original LeBron question, who has he really played. He got through a good Detroit team in 2007, no question, he beat a really tough Thunder team in the Finals last season, he beat a good Celtics team in 2011 to get to the Finals. Other than that he's played laughable competition for the most part, a lot of young teams full of a lot of real nobodies and a few borderline all-stars. Last season, The 76ers, please that team never had a shot, another team that doesn't even make the playoffs in the good days of the NBA. Having avoided the Bulls dude to Rose's injury, the Pacers, young team with zero real stars, got pushed to the edge by them, wow so impressive. An old as hell Celtics team with some bad injuries, got pushed to 7. Year before that they lose to a Mavs team with 2 hall of famers, one is Dirk, the other was old as hell and way past his prime in Kidd. These are not impressive teams. These are not comparable to what Jordan had to go through, what Kobe played through and freaking dominated putting up 40 point games against the Queens, tearing up some of the best Spurs teams.

I realize this all can make me come off as a hater, though I'm really not anymore, LeBron is great, he is, his shot has dramatically improved, he's playing in the post, he plays D now, he's a leader, always a great passer, and he got a ring, I can't say anything about the man's actual game, only his competition. That's all I'm saying, before everyone goes nuts and starts saying LeBron and MJ can start to be compared now, before you start saying LeBron is better than Kobe now than Kobe was in his prime, think about the competition these guys played against, who did what against who (whom?). LeBron's competition doesn't stack up right now, maybe when these teams and players grow up and turn into stars and all time greats, but so far nope, when he did face a lot of the all-time greats of Kobe's era in the playoffs, he'd lose (though I suppose that part is not unlike early Jordan). Jordan played in the league at it's peak. Kobe played and won when there were still teams full of men that knew how to play the game the right way and real defense was still allowed. That to me says more than a nice streak of scoring at a high shooting percentage, or how many stats a guy averages vs another guys stats, or even how many media voted on MVP's someone has. Finals MVP's are one thing, regular season, meh. That's all I wanted to say, getting kind of tired of the hype machine and LEBRONSPN right now brushing aside the greatness of Jordan even while celebrating him nonstop for his birthday, and getting tired of Kobe being disrespected at the expense of elevating LeBron, because you can call me wrong, but I am not going to say LeBron is on Kobe's level, or that he's better, not yet, sorry.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby MadMax on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:48 am

^
Excellent post. :bow:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Congo Cash on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:52 am

Yeah, the competition is really sad nowadays... Out of 30 teams, only 2-3 teams are legitimate and the rest are fillers...
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:39 am

Weezy post explained it well ... it is a " what have you have done for me lately" world we're living in ... blame it on internet , especially the social networks and their "experts" ... plus the NBA/Nike and others companies have to sell the Lebron brand , this is another huge reason these comparaisons are made ...

Kobe couldn't be promoted THAT much after his "rape" case
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:50 am

I feel that. Watching the all-star game today, I was trying to figure out why so many of these guys are all-stars. Ten years ago, and even more so twenty years ago, you could tell by thir play that the guys in the all-star game were the best of the best, top professional basketball players in the world. The top of their craft. They had incredible moves, or made unbelievable passes, or were worlds ahead of the competition in some clearly recognizable way.

I just didn't see that much today. LeBron and Wade, Kobe and Melo had superior moves. CP3 had superior hustle. And then a lot of mediocrity. Dwight was lethargic, Timmy was slow (but he's old so it's understandable), bosh was schooled over and over, Tony missed most of his shots, and it goes on and on. Maybe most of these guys are the superior talent, but they play like they don't care.

As for competition, the nba definitely doesn't have any great teams. Miami is the best superteam, and they run the table in the east because they have arguably the top three players in the east. There's no talent left after them. Melo is great, but it remains to be seen if he has enough supporting cast to make noise. As for the west, The Thunder without Harden are significantly less formidable. The Spurs core just gets older and older. The Clipps still have no inside presence. Miami is the best team in the league by far, but they wouldn't beat the 02 Lakers, or the 03 Spurs, or the 04 Pistons. Never mind the 98 Bulls or the 98 Jazz, or the 94 Rockets. All of those teams would school the soft-in-the-middle Heat, and the medium-soft-in-the-middle Thunder. Not to mention that Phil, Riles, Sloan, and Pop would mop the floor with Spoals and the young guard of clueless coaches.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Can the best today get better

Postby Finwë on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:32 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Weezy post explained it well ... it is a " what have you have done for me lately" world we're living in ... blame it on internet , especially the social networks and their "experts" ... plus the NBA/Nike and others companies have to sell the Lebron brand , this is another huge reason these comparaisons are made ...

This so much. LeBron's on an unbelievable streak and people start saying he's as good as Jordan or better than Kobe or a "bigger, stronger Jordan" like Barkley said (he's a moron so whatever). NO ONE, for example, seems to remember LeBron's UTTER choke job in the 2011 finals, or his other choke jobs before with the Cavs. That NEVER comes up now, it's like that never happened and he's always been the best player in the league. Both the MJ and Kobe comparisons take a huge hit if you start remembering that. These are guys remembered for coming up big in the playoffs, being clutch, elevating their games and doing what they need to do to win. They never had choke jobs as bad or as long (4 straight finals' games, really LeBron?) as LeBron's had. Yet that's never brought up anymore.
The first decade of the 21st century undeniably belongs to Kobe. But you hardly see that ever being mentioned, how amazing a ten year run that was, consistent and extremely good basketball, breaking all kinds of records, winning 5 championships (2 different runs with completely different teams and against completely different competition), altering his game again and again, piling up accolades... It seems like the media doesn't remember any of that, all they know is Kobe is on the decline and it's never been clearer that LeBron is the best in the league, and it's not even close, so they say. Forget about Durant leading the league in scoring while putting up 50/40/90. That's nothing.

I do agree LeBron is the most productive player in the league right now (not my favorite player, not the most fun to watch, but the most effective/productive). His stats are ridiculous and he has improved a lot. He's finally taking full advantage of his superior athleticism, and putting it together with his improved skillset has made him very, very hard to contain. But it's not like "it's not even close", or like guys like Durant and CP3 and Kobe aren't even worthy of him right now. It's not like his game is perfect and he's got it all down and there's nothing other players do better than him. That's BS. It doesn't make me forget the playoffs in 2011, or 2010, or 2009. And it doesn't make him already better or as good as the best players ever.
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