Official LBJ thread: 82 games too much man

Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:16 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Let's stop the hate for one post ... He did a cool gesture for the girl who has cancer in Milwaukee ..

don't know why the need to call it "hate" but eh whatevers.

I thought that was cool what the Heat did for the little girl. Too bad ESPN doesn't show many other teams outside a select few to showcase these great jobs by teams. Well outside their ESPN/Make-A-Wish series they do every year. I know they showed one of Kobe last year (I believe) too. Hockey teams are always doing it.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby trodgers on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:06 pm

How aren't people talking about that hat?
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby Dratini927 on Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:27 pm

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@EthanJSkolnick

LeBron took a long time to come out & speak to media. Over that time, he said he got over frustration. Why the Pharrell hat? "I'm happy."
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:29 pm

He looks like a [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] idiot.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby Magic Skywalker on Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:13 am

That's even worse than Jeanie :man10:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby kenzo on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:52 am

Magic Skywalker wrote:That's even worse than Jeanie :man10:

Muchhhhhhhhhhhh worse. Damn :hurl:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby trodgers on Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:13 am

This is what happens when you have an entourage or an out of control ego. First it's ridiculous hats. Next it's genocide. Please, get help, LeBron.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:35 am

Haters gonna hat
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Re: Official LBJ thread: Just throw me the ball! 4th qtr needs

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:32 am

Is it bad I want to get a giant mallet and play whack-a-mole now?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby John3:16 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:52 am

Who wore it best?

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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:00 am

John3:16 wrote:Who wore it best?

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Pharrell

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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:09 am

So ESPN made ClubLakers go down so we couldn't discuss the great Plumlee block on the King ...

I expect this forum to go down again sometimes in May
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:50 pm

No, It's Not Just You: LeBron Really Has Been Bad On Defense

Tom Haberstroh has a post over on ESPN Insider going over the uses of ESPN's new stat, Real Plus-Minus, and how it bears out on things like the MVP race. Tucked inside are a few telling statistical bits about LeBron's defense this season. So we thought, why not go ahead and take a dive into the rest of the numbers and see what we find.

According to exclusive Vantage Sports data Haberstroh's using, LeBron has kept his man in front of him on drives just 40 percent of the time—the league median is 50 percent. He's also been beaten back on defense 2.8 times per game, way ahead of the league average. We don't have LeBron's career numbers (or what would have to be a gigantic number for Dwyane's transition defense), but it's safe to say that those are well below where James has been the past several years.

This isn't a case of the stats telling you something you haven't seen happening. LeBron's been slower than usual on closeouts all season, and the transition defense has never been as sharp as it should be for a team with LeBron and Wade running around out there. The hounding pick-and-roll coverage that blitzes ball-handlers out of their UnderArmour has also come and gone, even in bigger games. And occasionally, he'll pull up short, expecting help on plays he should probably be wiping up himself. Take this drive from last night, by Alan Anderson, of all people:

No, It's Not Just You: LeBron Really Has Been Bad On Defense
RELATED

Just What The Hell Is Real Plus-Minus, ESPN's New NBA Stat?
Just ahead of playoffs season, ESPN today announced a new stat for the NBA called "Real Plus-Minus." It's envisioned as furthering the … Read…
The rest of the stats tell a similar story. His defensive win shares are the lowest since his rookie year in Cleveland, when he was 19. His defensive rating (a rough estimate of points allowed) is tied with 2007-08 as the worst he's had. And Real Plus-Minus puts him at 0.21 points per 100 worse than league average. SportVU has him giving up baskets at the rim 51.7 percent of the time on 2.8 attempts per game, which is about average, though that particular stat is noisy, especially for wing players, because it's based on proximity to the offensive player. His block percentage—a better measure than his lousy raw block stats here, since the Heat have actually played at a relatively slow pace—is terrible. (We'll just note here that while James's overall defense has slipped, his steal percentage has been steady at career average.)

By other measures, there hasn't been a broad impact from LeBron's defense. Synergy Sports has him on the hook for giving up 76.4 points per 100 defensive possessions where he is the key defender, which is in the 75th percentile. Last year he gave up 85.5 points per 100, which was in the 55th percentile. But charting and assigning who's responsible for what is always going to be a sticking point for catch-all operations like Synergy, and there's a good chance that a coach watching would blame James for more plays going wrong that these specific numbers reflect, or blame help defenders for hanging him out to dry.

Still, as you break down the numbers, you can see them bear out where you've seen James slip. Last year he gave up 89.9 points per 100 on spot-up shots—typically, these are going to be on close-outs for jumpers—while this year he's dropped below league average, giving up 100.4.

None of this is a compelling case for the decline of LeBron as a defensive force. It's an easy comparison, but he really doesn't look much different from Jordan in '93. Everyone expects the lapses—especially the ones on his man defense—to clean themselves up when the playoffs roll around. But this is a good reminder that stats can settle some of our dumb debates, taking Is LeBron coasting? from an I don't know, probably? to an Oh yeah, definitely.

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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:39 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:So ESPN made ClubLakers go down so we couldn't discuss the great Plumlee block on the King ...

I expect this forum to go down again sometimes in May


lol I thought the same thing :bow:
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Weezy on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:30 pm

First of all, f*** LeBron, the whiny little b****. Standing by the tunnel watching the replay of the Plumlee block on the big scoreboard crying and motioning that he was hit on the wrist, as if the refs are gonna go change it because he's LeBron. He wasn't hit anyway, he was stuffed, and then his hand came through without the ball and met and gripped Plumlee's, hand is part of the ball, especially once the ball has left the hand. It was a good defensive play, the big whiner shoulda let it go.

Second, lol at ESPN creating a new stat to make LeBron look good, using the headline on SportsCenter "LeBron gets no help", and brining their LeBron puppet Windhorst on to talk about how LeBron doesn't get credit for playing without Wade and Durant does for playing without Westbrook. Just shut up with that crap, stop the fake hype and excuses, judge the players on what they do on the court, nothing more. Durant is this seasons MVP, stop trying to give it to LeBron because he's LeBron, by inventing stats, saying he has no help, and because you want so badly for god knows why for him to catch Jordan. They want so badly to say Durant is no LeBron yet, and to start erasing Kobe from history already, it's a complete joke.

Oh and before anyone else calls me a hater, I'll do it myself.

Hate, hate, hate hate, hate, hate!

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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby MadMax on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:48 pm

I hear ya, Weezy. I can't stand it...but I also hardly watch ESPN at all anymore.

Excellent post! :jam2:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:19 am

To add to your point Weezy , it never ceases to amaze me how these Lebron lovers keep ignoring the level difference between both conferences ... it's HUGE
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Weezy on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:36 pm

Going along with that, LeBron and the Heat have possibly the easiest road to the Finals ever if they end up the 2 seed. Bobcats, then Raptors or Wizards, then Pacers, Nets, or Bulls. The only thing that can stop them is health, if they don't make it to the Finals and they are healthy they should be shamed forever. It has never been this weak or easy in the East, at least not since I started watching in '93. LeBron's prime could not have come at a more perfect time, he and people trying to put him up there with Jordan is are so lucky they probably don't even realize it. I realize you can't control your level of competition, but he's had to face no all time great teams while winning these titles, and hardly any all time great players that are not past their prime or haven't yet reached it.

I'm not trying to bash LeBron for winning against lesser competition, I'm just saying don't tell me he's approaching Jordan or he's passed Kobe or other all time greats. Don't even try to tell me he's played competition close to what Magic and Kareem, Bird, Jordan, or Kobe and Shaq faced, just to name a few, not even close. Any one of the teams the Lakers faced in the playoffs in say 2001 and 2002 for example, could have won the title that year, where teams the Heat face are in the playoffs because 8 spots have to be filled.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:20 pm

Weezy wrote:
Second, lol at ESPN creating a new stat to make LeBron look good, using the headline on SportsCenter "LeBron gets no help", and brining their LeBron puppet Windhorst on to talk about how LeBron doesn't get credit for playing without Wade and Durant does for playing without Westbrook. Just shut up with that crap, stop the fake hype and excuses, judge the players on what they do on the court, nothing more. Durant is this seasons MVP, stop trying to give it to LeBron because he's LeBron, by inventing stats, saying he has no help, and because you want so badly for god knows why for him to catch Jordan. They want so badly to say Durant is no LeBron yet, and to start erasing Kobe from history already, it's a complete joke.


This has been one of my biggest arguments in this thread.... Lebron is great no doubt but he is also manufactured. When the Cavs made it the Finals I was one of few people that said it would not have happened had Boobie Gibson hadn't gone off in the ECF. Lebron got all the credit for making those guys great during that series but when no one showed up in the Finals then it was "Lebron doesn't have enough." Then after he left people forget how often he disappeared in the big moments. As soon as the Heat won it was "oh my how great Lebron was in these playoffs." When truth be told Chris Bosh has been the best player for the Heat in the playoffs hands down to me. Yes, Lebron had bigger games and so has Wade but overall Bosh has hit more big shots than both of them during their Championship runs. Do we forget up until Manu and Timmy choked away game 6 that all the press was how horrible and passive Lebron was in the 4th quarters of the Finals? He was again choking all over the place and was finally getting some dark clouds over the blue sky lovefest of ESPN. Then the Spurs choked and the Heat lead by Lebron just demolished them in game 7. The rewrite was that Lebron did it all just look at those stats and those numbers. There were no shot break-downs and no disclaimers on how the tough defense kept him down just simple "he is the greatest!" Now its he needs rest, he doesn't have anyone yet not one mention of the krispy Kreme soft conference he has benefited from but let that be a superstar not named Lebron lol it would be 30 for 30's out the butt on all those diminishing things.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Weezy on Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:37 pm

Agreed, on all points.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Forward Three on Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:58 pm

Interesting article about that new ESPN stat. Most of this year I've felt like one of the only people trying to point out that Lebron's defense isn't that good and it's bizarre that he's even in the conversation for DPOY let alone First Team Defense(which he'll probably get even though he seriously doesn't deserve it) Aside from what this stat tells us it's just visible throughout his game. He's looked disinterested offensively and defensively and has been playing more to his comfort level than trying to necessarily elevate his game. Of course he's still had some remarkably explosions and stretches of play that are as good as any he's put together but whether it is the wear and tear of 3x Finals trips and 2x championships, whether he's simply started to lose a step at age 29(something we've all predicted would come sooner than later for him) whether he's consciously trying to get his teammates involved more or run the system or whatever, or whether he just truly doesn't give a fuss anymore.

Which, of course, tall talk when he's still putting up great-by-anyone's standards stats and mind bogglingly great efficiency. If this is what an 'off' year looks like for Lebron, I mean, it's still a better season than most players will ever have. In his situation now, since coming to Miami, he's never had to work less in his basketball life. He took the easy road and all. It'll be interesting to see how his career plays out as it enters its third act. Seems like more players than ever are staying fit and capable well into their 30s. Many would argue that the 30s are the true 'prime' for great players in that it shows how much they've learned and how solid, consistent and intelligent they can be. A lot of people have expected Lebron to drop off as soon as his athleticism starts to fail. Maybe that'll happen, or maybe he'll just sort of find a new normal that is still basically an effortless top 5 in the league and never exert himself beyond that.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:04 am

Weezy wrote:
I'm not trying to bash LeBron for winning against lesser competition, I'm just saying don't tell me he's approaching Jordan or he's passed Kobe or other all time greats. Don't even try to tell me he's played competition close to what Magic and Kareem, Bird, Jordan, or Kobe and Shaq faced, just to name a few, not even close. Any one of the teams the Lakers faced in the playoffs in say 2001 and 2002 for example, could have won the title that year, where teams the Heat face are in the playoffs because 8 spots have to be filled.


2011-2013 Heat ECF playoffs runs : faced 3 teams with or above 50 wins , 2 in 2011

2008-2010 Lakers WCF playoffs runs : faced 8 teams with or above 50 wins , one team with 48 wins

:man10:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby Forward Three on Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:47 am

All of that underscores exactly why Lebron is so difficult for me to like. Granted, it's not entirely his fault(though he does buy into it) but if Lebron was being treated the way Kobe was treated in the media(mostly ESPN), we'd be hearing a lot about how weak the East is, we'd be hearing a lot about how cheap the move to Miami was. We'd be hearing a lot about the extraordinary circumstances that allowed James to win two titles. (Lockout season, new CBA that hurt competitors, one in a million bail out from Ray Allen, Chris Bosh being a quiet storm and carrying Lebron and Wade more times than anyone will admit...etc.)

I mean, Kobe has been dogged his entire career as "He only won 2 championships! the first three belong to Shaq!". As if Kobe didn't average excellent stats for those playoffs runs and bail out the team several times on his own. Meanwhile, Lebron teaming up with two Olympic, in-the-prime, "capable of dropping 30+ any given night", "Capable of leading a team, and creating their own offense" superstars and he(as in he personally) still barely got it done. Yet, the narrative has been "It's all Lebron. King James. His Championships. Best Basketball player that ever was. It's obvious now."

Oh well. Can only hope history remembers this stuff better than we're doing it justice in the moment.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby trodgers on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:34 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:
Weezy wrote:
I'm not trying to bash LeBron for winning against lesser competition, I'm just saying don't tell me he's approaching Jordan or he's passed Kobe or other all time greats. Don't even try to tell me he's played competition close to what Magic and Kareem, Bird, Jordan, or Kobe and Shaq faced, just to name a few, not even close. Any one of the teams the Lakers faced in the playoffs in say 2001 and 2002 for example, could have won the title that year, where teams the Heat face are in the playoffs because 8 spots have to be filled.


2011-2013 Heat ECF playoffs runs : faced 3 teams with or above 50 wins , 2 in 2011

2008-2010 Lakers WCF playoffs runs : faced 8 teams with or above 50 wins , one team with 48 wins

:man10:

I knew the East was pathetic, but that's ridiculous.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: screw my stats....peep my hat!

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:09 pm

Forward Three wrote:Interesting article about that new ESPN stat. Most of this year I've felt like one of the only people trying to point out that Lebron's defense isn't that good and it's bizarre that he's even in the conversation for DPOY let alone First Team Defense(which he'll probably get even though he seriously doesn't deserve it) Aside from what this stat tells us it's just visible throughout his game. He's looked disinterested offensively and defensively and has been playing more to his comfort level than trying to necessarily elevate his game. Of course he's still had some remarkably explosions and stretches of play that are as good as any he's put together but whether it is the wear and tear of 3x Finals trips and 2x championships, whether he's simply started to lose a step at age 29(something we've all predicted would come sooner than later for him) whether he's consciously trying to get his teammates involved more or run the system or whatever, or whether he just truly doesn't give a fuss anymore.

Which, of course, tall talk when he's still putting up great-by-anyone's standards stats and mind bogglingly great efficiency. If this is what an 'off' year looks like for Lebron, I mean, it's still a better season than most players will ever have. In his situation now, since coming to Miami, he's never had to work less in his basketball life. He took the easy road and all. It'll be interesting to see how his career plays out as it enters its third act. Seems like more players than ever are staying fit and capable well into their 30s. Many would argue that the 30s are the true 'prime' for great players in that it shows how much they've learned and how solid, consistent and intelligent they can be. A lot of people have expected Lebron to drop off as soon as his athleticism starts to fail. Maybe that'll happen, or maybe he'll just sort of find a new normal that is still basically an effortless top 5 in the league and never exert himself beyond that.


Lebron has NEVER been a great defender. He has been pretty decent off of help D and he has been above average in chase down blocks IMO but those arent a consistent thing either. The whole "LBJ is a great defender" came after the USA Basketball team won the gold. The interesting part is that there was nothing until reports came out from the players that Kobe was the reason guys improved defensively. I have been arguing that he is nothing more than an average defender for some time but usually get met with the "are you kidding" comments. What Lebron is above anything else is a smart guy who "controls" his stats on all facets of the game. He doesn't shoot too much and he doesn't jeopardize his percentages by taking many midrange shots or deep ones. Sports media will always find a way to celebrate what he has done but truth is he doesn't have a killer instinct, he is a stat [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] and he is virtually afraid of the 4th quarter imo. All that being said he is still a great talent.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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