Official LBJ thread: Leading from behind?

Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:46 am

^It's true. The Lakers were breaking apart in mutiny after being down 1-2 and then 1-3 in Detroit. The old 3-peat guys like Fish and Kobe were begging Phil to bench Payton and run the triangle. The reality was that a) Kobe got no calls all series, when the series before he was treated as the Golden Boy, and b) Shaq was overweight and not quick off his feet, and of course c) malone was injured and not playing. If Malone would have been healthy, the Lakers would have beaten them in 6. He was that good.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby bumrusherer on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:59 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:
If shooting 30 out of 81 outside the paint (most of them being practice shots) isn't a flaw , I don't know what it is

- He still isn't an under 80%FT shooter

- Footwork is poor ...

Give him a couple of floor spacing killer ala MWP and Gasol and let's see if he can shoot 56% in the regular season ....

He's obviously an all time great but don't underestimate the perfect small ball supporting cast put around him in Miami ...

I don't like Lebron's game because it's ugly ... great all around player but ugly looking game
30 of 81? Is that just the Finals? Because if it is, thats too small of a sample size. Judge his entire season and look at how well his jumper was working.

He has a great cast around just like every title winning generational player has had a great cast around them. You cant use that against him.

His game can be as ugly as he wants...it doesnt take away from the fact that he is the most efficient player in the sport. And efficiency is all that matters.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Iceberg Slim on Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:50 am

Explain? Magic said greatest ever.
Some have already called him top 5.
Kobe has been moved out of top 10.
Lebron carried a bunch of scrubs to a Championship.

Do you disagree that he is the best player over the last 15 years? If not tell us why? I am sure you can see ESPN celebrate him like the second coming of Jesus.


Puffy...

What respected poster, analyst, or former ball player has put Lebron in the top 5? If you don't respect them or their opinion, why even spend time on it? I had a co-worker say to me (before game 6)..."Lebron is having a good series! He's averaging 20. That's pretty good" Mind you, this a guy who considers himself well-versed in sports and wants to tell you why you are wrong 8 times out of 10. Conversation over.

Magic never said he was the greatest ever, but that he could be after game 7 was over. How is that crazy? It's plausible, at best. Unless I missed something, I never heard Magic say it. So if he didn't, why hype it on CL like he did? C'mon son.

What person (who's opinion you respect) has Kobe out of the top 10? You can call this arrogant, I don't care. If someone tells me Kobe Bryant isn't top 10 all-time with 5 rings, 2 Finals MVP's, and top 5 in scoring all-time, I simply don't respect your opinion on basketball. Let's talk about football, women, poker, or the weather. But basketball? No need to bring that up. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'll simply laugh you off until you say something sensible.

As for as Lebron bringing scrubs to a chip: His all-star teammates did play like scrubs for much of the playoffs. Wade gave you games 5, 6, and 7. That was awesome...because he played like a bum for the entire playoffs. Bosh was virtually invisible outside of game 6. His role players were the stars for much of the playoffs, not the intended stars. So while your bullet point was an overstatement made by someone, I get the point of the statement. I would have never made that statement personally. They have tremendous talent on Miami. Ray and Wade are Hall of Famers. The role players are great. But judging by the games, The Big Three was simply Lebron and complementary players in the 2013 playoffs. It's really hard to deny that.

On a side note, people are still mad about Lebron teaming up with other stars? :man10: Cry yourself a bridge and get over it. In terms of legacy and the history of him, it will mean nothing. Excluding Bill Russell, Magic Johnson had more talent around him than any player in the history of the league. Not even the 96'-98' Bulls Triumvirate compares to them when discussing talent. How the Heat came together (by GM's or players colluding) is immaterial. Post 1998, it has become a player's league. Guys got smart and started controlling their own destinies instead of being mules for dumb owners/GM's who wanted to hoard money instead of winning ball games. See, LA Clippers-Donald Sterling, Milwaukee Bucks, and M. Jordan - Charlotte Bobcats. Ironically it was our very own Kobe Bryant who helped the idea of dictating this idea with his no trade clause and public ridicule of the Lakers in that weird summer of 2007. How could we forget that? You better believe players took notice and learned a good bit of business that day. Moving forward, they are in more control of their professional lives than owners are. And it should be commended.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Punk-101 on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:15 am

Just for fun. Give your projected stats for a Freaky Friday mix-up of 05-06 Kobe and 2013 Lebron. (Minds and skill sets switch bodies in case you're unfamiliar with the movie Freak Friday) Let's assume they adapt to their new bodies (hand size, shooting touch, coordination etc) without any problems.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:01 am

TIME wrote:
FabFourLakers wrote:Man there is some serious hate on LeBron...and I really don't get it...



I'll never like LeBron, and I'll always hate him no matter what he does. I hope he never comes to the Lakers. I know that sounds ridiculous but I don't wanna root for a douche that wants everything handed to him and guaranteed that he would win 7 or 8 titles....Eff him and eff the Miami Heat.



This wins my award for most unintentionally humorous post of the week.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby THEONE24 on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:49 am

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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:02 pm

THEONE24 wrote:http://i.imgur.com/jN0QVab.png


I'll take Kobe's lesser stats, knowing that he absolutely dismantled teams that were 20x better than any team, except Boston, that Lebron has had to face in his career in the playoffs.

How does Lebron do vs. the Kings, the Spurs, Portland in the early 2000's?

Knowing how he just recently overcame the mental roadblocks in the past two years, it might be a different story for him.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:12 pm

Dudes a stat-padder. Many of his points occurred after the game was decided one way or another. As for mental roadblocks, he still has some of them. He still disappears during pressure times. He's the best fair-weather player of all time.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Helljumper on Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:54 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:
Explain? Magic said greatest ever.
Some have already called him top 5.
Kobe has been moved out of top 10.
Lebron carried a bunch of scrubs to a Championship.

Do you disagree that he is the best player over the last 15 years? If not tell us why? I am sure you can see ESPN celebrate him like the second coming of Jesus.


Puffy...

What respected poster, analyst, or former ball player has put Lebron in the top 5? If you don't respect them or their opinion, why even spend time on it? I had a co-worker say to me (before game 6)..."Lebron is having a good series! He's averaging 20. That's pretty good" Mind you, this a guy who considers himself well-versed in sports and wants to tell you why you are wrong 8 times out of 10. Conversation over.

Magic never said he was the greatest ever, but that he could be after game 7 was over. How is that crazy? It's plausible, at best. Unless I missed something, I never heard Magic say it. So if he didn't, why hype it on CL like he did? C'mon son.

What person (who's opinion you respect) has Kobe out of the top 10? You can call this arrogant, I don't care. If someone tells me Kobe Bryant isn't top 10 all-time with 5 rings, 2 Finals MVP's, and top 5 in scoring all-time, I simply don't respect your opinion on basketball. Let's talk about football, women, poker, or the weather. But basketball? No need to bring that up. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'll simply laugh you off until you say something sensible.

As for as Lebron bringing scrubs to a chip: His all-star teammates did play like scrubs for much of the playoffs. Wade gave you games 5, 6, and 7. That was awesome...because he played like a bum for the entire playoffs. Bosh was virtually invisible outside of game 6. His role players were the stars for much of the playoffs, not the intended stars. So while your bullet point was an overstatement made by someone, I get the point of the statement. I would have never made that statement personally. They have tremendous talent on Miami. Ray and Wade are Hall of Famers. The role players are great. But judging by the games, The Big Three was simply Lebron and complementary players in the 2013 playoffs. It's really hard to deny that.

On a side note, people are still mad about Lebron teaming up with other stars? :man10: Cry yourself a bridge and get over it. In terms of legacy and the history of him, it will mean nothing. Excluding Bill Russell, Magic Johnson had more talent around him than any player in the history of the league. Not even the 96'-98' Bulls Triumvirate compares to them when discussing talent. How the Heat came together (by GM's or players colluding) is immaterial. Post 1998, it has become a player's league. Guys got smart and started controlling their own destinies instead of being mules for dumb owners/GM's who wanted to hoard money instead of winning ball games. See, LA Clippers-Donald Sterling, Milwaukee Bucks, and M. Jordan - Charlotte Bobcats. Ironically it was our very own Kobe Bryant who helped the idea of dictating this idea with his no trade clause and public ridicule of the Lakers in that weird summer of 2007. How could we forget that? You better believe players took notice and learned a good bit of business that day. Moving forward, they are in more control of their professional lives than owners are. And it should be commended.


:bow: Excellent post.

Kobe's fifth championship, IMO, moved him into the top 5. Exactly where in that top 5 is arguable, but it's definitely not #1. If after winning #5, a vocal minority of over-excited Laker fans/media started saying Kobe was the GOAT ... it would still seem kind of petty to me if a bunch of MJ fans started coming out of the woodworks to diminish Kobe's historic accomplishments by nitpicking at his Game 7 shooting performance and the fact that he needed Fish's Game 3 heroics to even be in that position. Yes, those MJ fans would technically be right ... but who cares? Dude just won.

About the argument that Lebron's Game 7 wasn't impressive because he was supposed to make those jumpers since he was open: No, he wasn't supposed to make them. He's supposedly mentally weak and not the best shooter. The stakes are raised in Game 7 and players are usually so nervous that they struggle through things that are usually automatic for them. (See Kobe's 6/24, Duncan's point-blank missed lay-ups, Bosh's 0 points). Before this year, the Finals Game 7 record for three pointers made was ONE. That's why Pop, a top-3 all time NBA coach, chose to give Lebron room on those jumpers.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby slimjim on Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:26 pm

Physically, there's no discussion he's one of the GOAT. It's hard for me to think of one player in the history of the NBA who can match up with LBJ's combination of strength, speed and skill. (There are faster, there are stronger, there are more skilled, but a combo of the 3? no one matches it)

Skillwise, he's evolved into an all-round talent. Yes, his mid-range and 3 ball are still VERY streaky/shaky but he's improved immensely in that department. (He'll never reach kobe/MJ level skill wise or killer instinct wise but maybe that's ok... he's definitely down the magic path and magic is easily one of the GOAT)

He has the tools to go down as one of the GOAT but he's definitely no there yet. the accomplishments part still has to match up with his potential. (needs another 2-3 rings to join the convo)


I still hate the dude for how he handled the announcement... but other than that, it's hard to hate on anything else to be honest. Some will knock him for needing two other stars to win the ring (this is what I said after he got his first ring), but let's be honest... bosh/wade were not relevant this playoff run, it was LBJ and co (Although Wade did step up big time in the spurs series)

Do I think he's going to win another 2-3 rings? it depends on the type of team he has around him for the rest of his career. if he's a contender every year. absolutely 2-3 is plausible. I have no question LBJ himself is now a championship calibur player. but like kobe. One man is not enough. As long as you surround LBJ with talent, you'll have a realistic shot at the ring each season.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:12 pm

^ I would disagree that it's LeBron and company. In the big games, Wade and Bosh stepped up, and so did Allen. They all needed each other to pull this series out.

As for winning a few more consecutive championships, I think everyone underestimates how hard that is. No one since the Celtics dynasty has done that, and in their day the season was much shorter, and the playoffs were too. In the modern era, only two teams have gone three in a row, and neither of them went to four consecutive finals. It's just too physically exhausting to do it, and I believe that Miami will find that out next year. Remember that the shortened season was MORE physically grueling than a regular season. Look at how Wade is beaten up. I expect that next season some of their core guys will be out for a big chunk of games, and that might be enough to lose HCA in the finals, and even some of the other series. Next year will have a healthy Rose, and a better Brooklyn team and maybe a better Knicks team. Memphis will be seasoned, OKC will have Westbrook back. It won't be as easy as this season, and they'll all be a year older, with heavy playoff miles. Not saying it will be impossible, but it will be much harder for them to three peat than fans and media are saying.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby slimjim on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:30 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:^ I would disagree that it's LeBron and company. In the big games, Wade and Bosh stepped up, and so did Allen. They all needed each other to pull this series out.

As for winning a few more consecutive championships, I think everyone underestimates how hard that is. No one since the Celtics dynasty has done that, and in their day the season was much shorter, and the playoffs were too. In the modern era, only two teams have gone three in a row, and neither of them went to four consecutive finals. It's just too physically exhausting to do it, and I believe that Miami will find that out next year. Remember that the shortened season was MORE physically grueling than a regular season. Look at how Wade is beaten up. I expect that next season some of their core guys will be out for a big chunk of games, and that might be enough to lose HCA in the finals, and even some of the other series. Next year will have a healthy Rose, and a better Brooklyn team and maybe a better Knicks team. Memphis will be seasoned, OKC will have Westbrook back. It won't be as easy as this season, and they'll all be a year older, with heavy playoff miles. Not saying it will be impossible, but it will be much harder for them to three peat than fans and media are saying.


Agreed!I used the wrong word, consistent is the word I should have used instead of irrelevant. No doubt other guys stepped up at times. But LBJ was definitely the driver/engine. (Although game 7's hero was shane battier, much like artest for Kobe's 5th ring)

I don't think 3 peat is going to happen, but LBJ will have a shot at a ring every year until he retires as long as he has a solid team around him. Much like kobe/duncan.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:26 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:
Puffy...

What respected poster, analyst, or former ball player has put Lebron in the top 5? If you don't respect them or their opinion, why even spend time on it? I had a co-worker say to me (before game 6)..."Lebron is having a good series! He's averaging 20. That's pretty good" Mind you, this a guy who considers himself well-versed in sports and wants to tell you why you are wrong 8 times out of 10. Conversation over.

Anywhere besides a discussion board I would do the same thing. However, the whole point (that I have maintained all along) is that here we should be able to discuss it. If I stated Lebron was absolute garbage I would expect people to call me on that and I'd have to (as we use to say on CL) "Come Strong." That is the whole point honestly.

Magic never said he was the greatest ever, but that he could be after game 7 was over. How is that crazy? It's plausible, at best. Unless I missed something, I never heard Magic say it. So if he didn't, why hype it on CL like he did? C'mon son.

Magic has as many in the media gone overboard too many times making claims that are easily misinterpreted. If someone like Magic says Lebron "could" be the greatest to ever play then it validates those who already "are" saying it. Then we get people posting wild claims like "Lebron is the greatest in the last 15 years." By the way, I never said Lebron being the greatest was crazy. I don't personally believe it but I don't discredit it as outrageous like many have done either. The better question I have is why is it hyping Magic up?

What person (who's opinion you respect) has Kobe out of the top 10? You can call this arrogant, I don't care. If someone tells me Kobe Bryant isn't top 10 all-time with 5 rings, 2 Finals MVP's, and top 5 in scoring all-time, I simply don't respect your opinion on basketball. Let's talk about football, women, poker, or the weather. But basketball? No need to bring that up. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'll simply laugh you off until you say something sensible.
In my personal circle, none. However, this isn't my personal circle it is a message board based on discussion of opinions. Some would call me crazy for saying Lebron has flaws in his game instead of running with the "he fixed them all" like it has been stated over and over again. Why discuss anything on the board at all if all we discuss is the things we absolutely agree with?

As for as Lebron bringing scrubs to a chip: His all-star teammates did play like scrubs for much of the playoffs. Wade gave you games 5, 6, and 7. That was awesome...because he played like a bum for the entire playoffs. Bosh was virtually invisible outside of game 6. His role players were the stars for much of the playoffs, not the intended stars. So while your bullet point was an overstatement made by someone, I get the point of the statement. I would have never made that statement personally. They have tremendous talent on Miami. Ray and Wade are Hall of Famers. The role players are great. But judging by the games, The Big Three was simply Lebron and complementary players in the 2013 playoffs. It's really hard to deny that.
I won't argue any of that but that is the standard line we get for Lebron. Is it not? Lebron was not "Lebron" for most of the Finals, in my opinion, and I don't think that should be overlooked for one of the great players. That should not be too much to expect.

On a side note, people are still mad about Lebron teaming up with other stars? :man10: Cry yourself a bridge and get over it. In terms of legacy and the history of him, it will mean nothing. Excluding Bill Russell, Magic Johnson had more talent around him than any player in the history of the league. Not even the 96'-98' Bulls Triumvirate compares to them when discussing talent. How the Heat came together (by GM's or players colluding) is immaterial. Post 1998, it has become a player's league. Guys got smart and started controlling their own destinies instead of being mules for dumb owners/GM's who wanted to hoard money instead of winning ball games. See, LA Clippers-Donald Sterling, Milwaukee Bucks, and M. Jordan - Charlotte Bobcats. Ironically it was our very own Kobe Bryant who helped the idea of dictating this idea with his no trade clause and public ridicule of the Lakers in that weird summer of 2007. How could we forget that? You better believe players took notice and learned a good bit of business that day. Moving forward, they are in more control of their professional lives than owners are. And it should be commended.

You make a valid point (as usual) but I won't knock people for hating on Lebron for going to Wade's team. Yes the league has changed and personally I am not a big fan of it. Call it old school or even stubborn but I expect the superstars I root for to bring the talent to their team not go running to another. Lebron didn't leave a 30 win team in Cle he left a 60 win, top of the NBA, team. His ownership was doing what he and his marketing group wanted (from what I understood though I could be wrong) and yet he ran down to Miami to be with a two players in the top 5-15 in the league. He has won 2 rings and a ton of other stuff so I am sure he does not regret any of it nor should he. However the fans don't have to simply "get over it" do they?
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Finwë on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:22 am

Punk-101 wrote:Just for fun. Give your projected stats for a Freaky Friday mix-up of 05-06 Kobe and 2013 Lebron. (Minds and skill sets switch bodies in case you're unfamiliar with the movie Freak Friday) Let's assume they adapt to their new bodies (hand size, shooting touch, coordination etc) without any problems.

It's a really hard thing to predict, so I won't just pull out defined numbers, but I don't think you can deny that Kobe's stats rise and LeBron's fall.
Even after all of his work on his skillset, LeBron's biggest advantage remains his body. Fundamentally, Kobe is way more sound than him, and his skillset is more complete and polished. Mentally, Kobe has always been tougher and much less (if at all) fazed by pressure.
So there's no question IMO that Kobe's stats would hike up a lot, and LeBron would probably avg less points, less rebounds (obviously), a lesser FG %, etc..
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:47 am

Lebron really elevated his legacy with this championship. I would say that right now, if he retired today, he is somehwere between 10-15. 4 regular season mvps, 2 finals mvps, one of the highest ppg average in history, etc. Let's see what he does from here on out. If he doesn't win another ring but adds a few more regular season mvps and continues to rack up points, you would still have to put him in the top 10 by default when it's all said and done. But he's got to win more rings to really crack that top 5-7, which is truly rarified air. As for being the goat, he won't ever surpass MJ. I don't think anyone will.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby thkthebest on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:14 am

If he retired today, he's probably top 10. He's on my top 10 anyway. LeBron's already top 5 in regular season MVPs. He's top 5 in Finals MVPs (tied with like 6 other players so this can be seen as top 10 I guess). He passed the likes of Hakeem in all-nba firsts.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby NoisyBook on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:37 am

We can't deny his talent. it's amazing how he's playing at this level. But it's sad he adds nothing to basketball.

If he has MJ/Kobe like moves, he will be considered as GOAT when he retires... Unfortunately he doesn't and won't have.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Iceberg Slim on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:03 am

Anywhere besides a discussion board I would do the same thing. However, the whole point (that I have maintained all along) is that here we should be able to discuss it. If I stated Lebron was absolute garbage I would expect people to call me on that and I'd have to (as we use to say on CL) "Come Strong." That is the whole point honestly.


This makes sense Puff. But can't we agree that a person gives credence to dumb statements just by responding to them? Like Lebron is the best in the last 15 years, but he's only been playing for 10. It's so absurd, it needs no attention.

Since we're on the topic of dumb things people say and Lebron James. I hated his championship smug look and speech thereafter. It reeked with self-absorption. He addressed "haters". It's not necessary imo. It's so obvious he's the King of the World. Why address peons of people on Twitter, ESPN, or across America who "hate" and burn jersey's? And because of his words, they have an elevated platform. They have his attention, which is what they wanted.


If someone like Magic says Lebron "could" be the greatest to ever play then it validates those who already "are" saying it.


How, lol? Magic's operative word is could. Don't you and I think the same thing lol? "Could" is the biggest 5 letter word in the American lexicon. Len Bias could have been great. It speaks to potential. Which means, if he gets 5-7 rings he might be the best ever to lace em' up. How is that off base or irrational? What is off base are the people who already think it, like you said. And we already agreed they are disqualified from having a balanced, sensible basketball opinion (at least on this topic) probably because they are 16 years old on Clublakers, possibly trolling. It's nonsensical. I can't let them have my time. I only have a few hours and minutes of the day.

The better question I have is why is it hyping Magic up?


It's simple...he's a FAN lol. Haven't we learned anything about Magic from his playing days and interviews post retirement? The dude has a surging passion for the game that's child-like, unlike former Hall of Famers...or grown men. The guy is just excited. And sometimes overly harsh too. He's a man of extremes. But his statements on Lebron have been calculated. Why? His best friend is MJ. And he's a 5-time winner too. But he hasn't said anything outlandish.

I won't argue any of that but that is the standard line we get for Lebron. Is it not? Lebron was not "Lebron" for most of the Finals, in my opinion, and I don't think that should be overlooked for one of the great players. That should not be too much to expect.


Lebron didn't leave a 30 win team in Cle he left a 60 win, top of the NBA, team. His ownership was doing what he and his marketing group wanted (from what I understood though I could be wrong) and yet he ran down to Miami to be with a two players in the top 5-15 in the league. He has won 2 rings and a ton of other stuff so I am sure he does not regret any of it nor should he. However the fans don't have to simply "get over it" do they?


I'll answer this collectively.

Sure, he left a 60 win team...that was structured to win or fail on one thing Puff...HIM! Who was their second best player? Varejao? Mo Williams? Eric Snow? Big Z? :man10: You didn't have to be a genius to figure out that team wasn't going anywhere. Who cares about regular season wins Puff? It's about winning championships. Those Cavaliers team were structured the same way his high school team was. A bunch of role players who couldn't score but passed the ball to the most physically gifted athlete on Planet Earth. That's how I knew he was going to be a great pro actually. He elevated the game of "average guys" to "good". "Good" guys would look "great" next to him. His team finished ranked #1 in the country nationally after his state title senior year. Typically, that kind of team is always composed of 3-4 division 1 blue chip recruits. You know what school his star teammate (Romeo Travis) when to college the next year? The University of Akron.

So yes, fans should just get over it lol. The faster the better. It's like arguing with the weather. It just is what it is. Personally, as a former athlete who never made it big time and only played football in college, I try to put myself in their situation as professionals.

Lebron gets drafted to the worst franchise in modern day basketball who (historically) never won a championship. He averages 20, 5, and 5 as a rookie. They bring in Mo Williams and...no one else. He leads them to the Finals in 2007 in the most lopsided match-up in the history, because he has no sufficient help. And by 2010, they haven't really improved. He improves, but his team remains in a talent stalemate in relation to the league. Who are his nemesis'? A group called the Big Three from Boston who win a championship just a year after he failed to win one against another group called the Big Three. When the dust settled in the summer of 2010, Boozer signed with Chicago, Bosh went to Miami, Amare signed with NY, and he's still in Cleveland. With Mo Williams. And Mike Brown. :man3: Why end up like Charles Barkley? Why end up like Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, and Patrick Ewing? Because there's honor with staying with a team as a player when we all know a GM would trade you at the first possible idea of a better deal? Why be remembered as a loser? I rather be remembered as a winner, whatever route it took me to get there. Wouldn't you? And they whole league is begging for your services? So he took off. How he did it was the real issue for me. I would've organized my free agency status the way Peyton Manning did when he was let go of the Colts. Business-like. But hey, the kid was young and dumb. And apologized for it. Athletes have done worse things. I'm over it. I'm just enjoying his greatness man. I don't have time much time for anything else.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby slimjim on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:40 pm

NoisyBook wrote:We can't deny his talent. it's amazing how he's playing at this level. But it's sad he adds nothing to basketball.

If he has MJ/Kobe like moves, he will be considered as GOAT when he retires... Unfortunately he doesn't and won't have.


Don't quite understand the point of adding nothing to the game of basketball. Do you mean skill/moves wise? (Duncan bank shot? Kareem hook? MJ turnaround fade away?)

And your point of LBJ having moves like kobe/mj -> They have different games.

Kobe is cut from the MJ cloth.
Lebron is cut from the Magic cloth.

Lebron and Magic are much more inclined to make the logical/smart play. The one where coaches will pat them on the back afterwards and say... good job! Smart play! Safe and Solid.

Kobe and MJ are more inclined to take over and dominate... at times the coach will want to rip his own hair out and other times... leave the coach in awe. You can never count the team out as long as Kobe/MJ are on the floor.

Obviously there are crossovers (Kobe/MJ are more than capable of making the "smart" play, but naturally, want to kill you single handily. LBJ is capable of dominating at times, but naturally, he wants to make the right play given what's on the floor)
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Barnstable on Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:51 pm

slimjim wrote:
NoisyBook wrote:We can't deny his talent. it's amazing how he's playing at this level. But it's sad he adds nothing to basketball.

If he has MJ/Kobe like moves, he will be considered as GOAT when he retires... Unfortunately he doesn't and won't have.


Don't quite understand the point of adding nothing to the game of basketball. Do you mean skill/moves wise? (Duncan bank shot? Kareem hook? MJ turnaround fade away?)

And your point of LBJ having moves like kobe/mj -> They have different games.

Kobe is cut from the MJ cloth.
Lebron is cut from the Magic cloth.

Lebron and Magic are much more inclined to make the logical/smart play. The one where coaches will pat them on the back afterwards and say... good job! Smart play! Safe and Solid.

Kobe and MJ are more inclined to take over and dominate... at times the coach will want to rip his own hair out and other times... leave the coach in awe. You can never count the team out as long as Kobe/MJ are on the floor.

Obviously there are crossovers (Kobe/MJ are more than capable of making the "smart" play, but naturally, want to kill you single handily. LBJ is capable of dominating at times, but naturally, he wants to make the right play given what's on the floor)


I think that's a fair assesment of LaBron's game as much as i hate to admit it.

It just pisses me off when people try to say he has that same Kobe or MJ kller instinct. LaBron affects the game dramatically, but he isnt the same as Kobe or Jordan. He won't dominate the game through taking over the scoring most of the time, but a combination of scoring and passing about 50/50
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby OX1947 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:03 pm

Top 5, top 10, who gives a (bleep). What is it with this generation of fans and this infatuation with GREATEST EVER? How many times do we have to hear about Michael Jordan until someone commits suicide from it? I'm so sick and tired of listening to the same, tired bullcrap every playoff and post playoff. Kobe played 17 years already, won 5 titles, MVPs, scored 81 points in one damn game, what the hell more do you want from him? And what the hell does Lebron James have to do with anything that the Lakers or Kobe have done other then keep Kobe fan boys jealous from fear of Lebron "passing Kobe" on the top 5, top 10 or top jerk off list that everyone and their mother has their own opinion on.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby scarface223 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:58 pm

Definitely agree about the people forgetting more and more about "the Decision". The more and more rings he piles up, the more people will forget. Looking back, he took that crappy Cavs team as far as they could go. He knew there was no way he could lure any FA's to come to Cleveland, he cared about winning more than individual stats. Had he played for a bigger market, doubt he would have any problems luring other superstars to come there, just didn't work out that way.

THe 2013 chip puts him in my top 10 of all time! I will say though as someone pointed out earlier, him being the Finals MVP twice is huge, because that equals Kobe. Not saying their careers are equals yet, but it's a bigger deal than people think.
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:33 am

Best player of the last 15 years?

Tim Duncan- 16 season veteran

Kobe Bryant- 17 season veteran

Michael Jordan- retired 11 years ago

Shaquille O'Neal- retired 2 years ago

Whoever wrote the article/title of thread, GTFO and never show your face in a basketball discussion
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:09 am

Chillbongo wrote:Best player of the last 15 years?

Tim Duncan- 16 season veteran

Kobe Bryant- 17 season veteran

Michael Jordan- retired 11 years ago

Shaquille O'Neal- retired 2 years ago

Whoever wrote the article/title of thread, GTFO and never show your face in a basketball discussion


Well I wrote the title of the thread....................................... I will now keep my face out of basketball discussion :bang:
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Re: Official LBJ thread: The Best player last 15 years, maybe?

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:56 am

It is rather pale and ummm .... unhealthy looking. No offense of course.
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