Official LBJ thread: G5: Is Lebron fatigued? (173)

admittedly Kobe takes much tougher shots than LeBron so I'm amazed that Kobe is even shooting like 45% on the type of shots he takes. But there is no denying that Kobe is a volume shooter while LeBron is not. Kobe never minds taking a bad shot or missing many shots. Its a conscience issue IMO. Kobe could have taken much better shots and definitely shoot 48% or so for his career but he doesn't because at some point every year his shot will be off and he will continue to pile up those 7-26 games to ruin his percentages.

Not LeBron, not MJ, not Wilt...nobody is a better scorer than Kobe IMO when you factor in the array of moves and the degree of difficulity on Kobe's shots. His shooting form is perfect, he has EVERY move in the bag with either hand, he has (had) unlimited range, the killer instinct to go for it, the lack of fear of failing or missing too many shots. Kobe is the best scorer ever, second bar none and I can say that without hesitation. But that doesn't mean the end result is the best and the truth is it isn't. Kobe has ups and downs through a season of putrid shooting games and amazing shooting stretches.

LeBron is shooting higher than 50% every year, even his 3 ball has reached 40%+. I always hated when guys like T-Mac, Carter or Pierce shot better percentages than Kobe from long range considering he is a better shooter than those guys but Kobe just doesn't care about efficiency.

LeBron picks and chooses his spots much more carefully and he also can do more beside scoring so he isn't so focused on it. Kobe has always been a scorer and he always felt he can contribute best by scoring the basketball. Kobe is a jump shooter though which is a lot harder to shoot consistently compared to LeBron's layup party every game.

I'm in awe whenever LeBron takes over a game, but when he does it's a sheer act of will, not a clinic.

Kobe puts on a clinic of moves and fundamentals every time he plays.

I thought the game Sunday was really fun to watch between these two. Kobe showed some offensive prowess, but it was really clear who the best player in the NBA was.

John3:16 wrote:

therealdeal wrote:I thought the game Sunday was really fun to watch between these two. Kobe showed some offensive prowess, but it was really clear who the best player in the NBA was.

Agree. Sadly.

LeBron, right now, is on a whole 'nother level.

As long as he remains healthy, I think he'll be there for at least a few years. His shot is vastly improved and he's not afraid to take it. He can get to the rim when he wants and when he cant the refs will give him the benefit of the doubt (Nash elbowed in the mouth = foul?).

But definitely this man is at the top of his game and it's impressive to see.

Lebron is able to play closer to the rim and gets a ton of his points in and around the paint. His FG% will be higher than Kobe who is a SG and takes the majority from 15 feet on out. This is not to deminish what Lebron is doing because the dude is balling plain and simple. However, I think it is a descredit to Kobe to simply say Lebron is the better scorer. He isn't. In my opinion that is.

Also, while he does have better "shot selection" than Kobe, I think we should point out that he can afford to be so selective and really pick his spots and only take makeable shots. He's got a much better team in terms of consistent production from other players (even role players), he's got a ton of shooters who space the floor just as good as any team in the league, the team plays better D so they're under less pressure on O, the offensive system & personnel is almost custom made for his playing style. There are no bigs cloggin the lane, there's a ton of space to operate, there's movement off the ball, there's post up action...

Add all of that to being a physical monster that can take it to the rim at will (almost 40% of his points are in the paint I think), leading the league in fastbreak points, getting calls on contact (Kobe takes more FTs but he gets more bad no calls than LeBron for sure), and being in a good shooting rythm all season long (that does deserve praise) and you get his high %.

wcsoldier81 wrote:

John3:16 wrote:

therealdeal wrote:I thought the game Sunday was really fun to watch between these two. Kobe showed some offensive prowess, but it was really clear who the best player in the NBA was.

Agree. Sadly.

LeBron, right now, is on a whole 'nother level.

Well Lebron is playing his 10th , Kobe his 17th ... I don't think it's "sad" , it's just normal ...

Kobe has a case of being the 3rd best player in the league in his 17th season (definetely top 5) is AMAZING and maybe unprecedented ( only Kareem ... maybe , I didn't witness this era so can't tell)

Very true. Lebron is playing great. He has even found that Jumper that I was positive he would never find but I wouldn't be sad that Kobe may finally have taken a step back in the "best in game" race. That being said, I think we would all be foolish to think that if Kobe wanted to take over the game he could. I think we mis-interpret the kobe "Iso" as its just trying to get him going. I think its Kobe still sticking with the plan but teammates have to move without the ball. In the end, at his 17th season the sports media still has to try and descredit what he does to make others look better. That says a lot in my book.

John3:16 wrote:

wcsoldier81 wrote:Kobe has a case of being the 3rd best player in the league in his 17th season (definetely top 5) is AMAZING and maybe unprecedented ( only Kareem ... maybe , I didn't witness this era so can't tell)

I'm a HUGE Kareem fan. he wasn't top 5 in his 17th year. Maybe his 15th year. By 1985, the Lakers turned the focus of the team to Magic. Kareem was still vital to their success (MVP of the Finals that year), but he wasn't the dominant player he was in years prior. Nor would he be again.

I've never seen someone this dominant this late in their career. Once in a generation talent.

Yeah Kareem in '85 was the same beast, but a different animal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8939726/coast-coast-comparing-lebron-james-michael-jordan
These comparisons.

Why? Can't you losers wait until he wins 2 more rings? My god.

Adande taking jabs at Kobe too....wtf does LeBron & Jordan have to do with Kobe "padding" his resume. Adande is a f**** loser. Go sell interior decorations you moron.

Actually, Israel is pretty rational and his stuff is worth reading. It's actually intelligent. Adande is just an emotional tampon.

Wow that "LeBron can never be Jordan now because he left his team to join 2 stars" stuff sure went away quick. So did the argument that he couldn't catch him because he was 0-2 in his first 2 Finals and Jordan never lost. Oh well though, seems the media will continue to change their minds until it fits LeBron being the best ever. He's great, but come on.

I hate how the media nowadays will never remember just how DOMINANT Kobe Bean was during the early 2000s...oh how quickly they forget. I'd still choose a prime Kobe over a prime Lebron 100/100 times.

I said as much earlier in the thread but a thing about Lebron's game that is weird to me, especially for the praise he gets, is that he doesn't really have "moves". He isn't someone who is liable to kill you with a crossover or a fake. He's not the type of player who will put you on a spin cycle because of his footwork. He doesn't have a 'move, a backup move and a bailout move".

Which is not to say he can't, you can find great examples of him doing great stuff all around, but for the most part, the way he plays just isn't based around footwork and fakes.

LeBron started out the season kind of average for his standards, but he's now playing better than he was last season if that's even imaginable. We're watching a guy who is going to go dow top 5 and maybe even top 3, it's unbelievable. I also don't see anyone stopping them in the post-season, especially out East where the competition is awful.

Lebrons better. His prime is even better then Kobes except scoring, but Ill forever have more respect for Kobe for going through that trial off the court and playing, a year later losing Shaq and his reputation, then through sheer determination getting back on top and solidifying himself as one of the greats. Lebrons a Magic/Shaq hybrid, part all around player part just manchild who had to join up with 2 all stars to solidify his position. Thats what will forever differentiate the two when people through stats at me to argue during this Hollinger/PER/youtube/field goal percentage conscious era. Intangibles intangibles intangibles people.

well stats say a lot of things. first of all lebron will always have higher assist totals for 2 reasons.

first of all he's a more willing passer, since the day he was born. kobe was born to shoot lebron was born to pass.

secondly kobe was in the triangle. the triangle is an assist killer. had kobe been in a free flowing offense surrounded by shooters i have no doubt 6apg would have been commonplace for him. possibly 7apg.

but they are different players and kobe's legacy is that of one of the all time greats. in his prime there was not a better scorer in league history. Lebron? in his prime i don't think there has been a better all around player. considering the zone defense and his ability to remain efficient despite that, while getting his rebound, assists, and playing defense. he's an incredible basketball player. he's a real marvel to watch.

people said he couldn't shoot, he developed a shot
people said he couldn't post, in 2011 he developed the leagues most efficient post game
people said he couldn't win a title, and he went out and won a title

at the end of the day it doesn't have to be kobe or lebron. both are different players. both are better than jordan in some aspects with Jordan being the better player than both as he was close to kobe as a scorer and close to lebron as an all around player and he beats both as a winner.

i think people need to ignore the ESPN nonsense and just enjoy how good lebron really is. he is THAT good. whenever i watch him it's like watching a guy who just can do whatever he wants. like a highschool kid playing against middle schoolers

In the last 180 minutes of playing time...LeBron has made 60 of 80 shots. Just insanely unbelievable stuff.

I mean 60 of 80 shots...like really? LOL.

wcsoldier81 wrote:Lebron was born to pass is exaggerated ... sure he's a willing passer but his PPG averages are 3rd and 4th best all time in regular season and playoffs ... and his career averages are more than 20 FGA a game in both "seasons" ...

Because he's an all around player

Chillbongo wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8939726/coast-coast-comparing-lebron-james-michael-jordan
These comparisons.

Why? Can't you losers wait until he wins 2 more rings? My god.

Adande taking jabs at Kobe too....wtf does LeBron & Jordan have to do with Kobe "padding" his resume. Adande is a f**** loser. Go sell interior decorations you moron.

Actually, Israel is pretty rational and his stuff is worth reading. It's actually intelligent. Adande is just an emotional tampon.

Man, there were articles on Kobe waaay too early with the same headline back then too.

Man the King has turned even CL into a lovefest for Lebron.

Really? What's "waaay too early"?

Kobe and Michael's actual basketball skills were certainly quite similar....given that Kobe specifically molded his game after Jordan's. The comparisons there were purely about basketball skills...the footwork, the mid-range game, the shooting, the clutch basket making, the way they attacked the basket, athleticism, the will to take over a game and win, being coached by Phil...

And actually, I don't remember those comparisons being too ridiculous until Kobe actually won a few rings. It was pretty hard to put him on Jordan's level when he was playing with Shaq. Then they picked up once Shaq left and Kobe was the man, and already had 3 rings to his name and was just entering his prime.