Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Iceberg Slim · by **Iceberg Slim** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:54 am

Chillbongo,

Outside of Scottie Pippen's asinine comment about being better than Michael in the 2011 playoffs after the ECF's, please post the quote, soundbyte or article in which a commentator or journalist said he was GOAT. Even in all his hype, commentators and former athletes have been very careful in approaching Bron in comparison to MJ. They always say he COULD be the best of all-time. And looking at his resume, he's on pace to rival Mike and Kobe going into his 10th year in the league.

Visionaries see things no one else does. Sport Illustrated called him the Chosen One when he was 16. Nike signed Lebron fresh out of high school for 100 million. They also signed golf's #1 player Mcllroy to 200 mill just 4 days ago, at age 23. Looking at Bron's production from 18-28, looks like they got him for cheap. More times than not, the visionaries are wrong. Looks like they got it right this time. Bron was as good as advertised.

wcsoldier81 · by **wcsoldier81** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:21 am

I find his game ugly and the constant over the top praise is annoying but the guy is just a machine ... his game is as efficient and all around as a wing player can be ...

Fans really need to move on from being Kobe lovers/Bron haters or vice versa

Juronimo · by **Juronimo** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:08 am

Best player in the game right now and I don't think it's even close to be honest.

OCLakersFan247 · by **OCLakersFan247** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:08 pm

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/50f967f56bb3f7830a000019-3260-2296-900-/lebron-james-dunks-lakers.jpg

Finwë · by **Finwë** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:12 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:I find his game ugly and the constant over the top praise is annoying but the guy is just a machine ... his game is as efficient and all around as a wing player can be ...

Fans really need to move on from being Kobe lovers/Bron haters or vice versa

This pretty much sums up exactly the way I feel

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:10 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:Chillbongo,
please post the quote, soundbyte or article in which a commentator or journalist said he was GOAT. Even in all his hype, commentators and former athletes have been very careful in approaching Bron in comparison to MJ. They always say he COULD be the best of all-time. And looking at his resume, he's on pace to rival Mike and Kobe going into his 10th year in the league.

Here's just a couple, and notice when these comments were made. Most of the comments I take issue with were made by commentators in games, in sports shows, and things like that. But here's some.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/345505-crazy-and-true-lebron-james-is-arguably-better-than-michael-jordan
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2010/10/oscar-robinson-says-lebron-james-better-than-michael-jordan/

Also, people saying that someone "COULD" be better than Jordan -- before he won an NBA title -- is absolutely absurd. That is hype to me, and is not warranted until winning 6 rings & 6 Finals MVPs. Especially given the shortcomings in his game at that time, and his inability to close games. Sure, things are a little different now.

That being said, dude was on FIRE last night. Wow. I would have loved to acknowledge the greatness displayed last night, until he got a boatload of BOGUS foul calls & and-ones. That s*** pisses me off, and makes me think he has an advantage over other players, because him barreling down the lane is almost a guaranteed blocking foul.

V.V.V.V.V. · by **V.V.V.V.V.** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:56 pm

Some asked in another thread "why don't more people play like Harden?" Lebron does!

It's easy to play aggressively near the basket when you know you'll get the calls.

What I hate about Sterns NBA is that he creates stars, instead of letting their games speak for them. Lebron is great, but he doesn't need all of those bogus calls. We could assess his ability better if the games were called fairly.

Still though, Lebron and Wade play with such quickness and power that I can see them racking up 3 or 4 championships in a row before they get too old.

retro_nights · by **retro_nights** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:24 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
Iceberg Slim wrote:Chillbongo,
please post the quote, soundbyte or article in which a commentator or journalist said he was GOAT. Even in all his hype, commentators and former athletes have been very careful in approaching Bron in comparison to MJ. They always say he COULD be the best of all-time. And looking at his resume, he's on pace to rival Mike and Kobe going into his 10th year in the league.

Here's just a couple, and notice when these comments were made. Most of the comments I take issue with were made by commentators in games, in sports shows, and things like that. But here's some.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/345505-crazy-and-true-lebron-james-is-arguably-better-than-michael-jordan
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2010/10/oscar-robinson-says-lebron-james-better-than-michael-jordan/

Also, people saying that someone "COULD" be better than Jordan -- before he won an NBA title -- is absolutely absurd. That is hype to me, and is not warranted until winning 6 rings & 6 Finals MVPs. Especially given the shortcomings in his game at that time, and his inability to close games. Sure, things are a little different now.

That being said, dude was on FIRE last night. Wow. I would have loved to acknowledge the greatness displayed last night, until he got a boatload of BOGUS foul calls & and-ones. That s*** pisses me off, and makes me think he has an advantage over other players, because him barreling down the lane is almost a guaranteed blocking foul.

bleacher report
black sports online

probably the two worst places anyone could use to backup their point.

just saying....but even if espn or whoever says it, its a journalist behind the brand, not the brand message.

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:13 pm

My whole argument was that these people jumped the gun and made outlandish claims.

Maluco Beleza · by **Maluco Beleza** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:02 am

people are too much on kobe's you know what. i used to be like that but i could still give my props...

'lebrons game is ugly' ???? is why you dont think he's the best?

did u see his defense and dunks against the lakers? oh yea he also hit a clutch shot at the end that pretty much ended the game.

wcsoldier81 · by **wcsoldier81** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:40 am

Maluco Beleza wrote:people are too much on kobe's you know what. i used to be like that but i could still give my props...

'lebrons game is ugly' ???? is why you dont think he's the best?

did u see his defense and dunks against the lakers? oh yea he also hit a clutch shot at the end that pretty much ended the game.

Yep Lebron shooting release/shooting mechanics and "footwork" are ugly to watch .. it doesn't mean he isn't the best right now

Forward Three · by **Forward Three** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:36 pm

Lebron is playing at an extremely high level, the game seems effortless to him at times and when you watch him move and operate there are stretches when absolutely nothing can really slow him down, bother him or throw him off. Just makes it that much more annoying that he still gets phantom calls and is generally allowed whatever leeway he wants when approaching the basket, or that he gets such leeway with his own fouling. But, he's still the 'best' in the league all around. Yeah, you can talk about how Kobe's footwork and complex shot making is superior, I think it is too. You can talk about how Durant's shooting stroke is purer and he has more finesse, I think so too. But a few things here and there that maybe some other players do better doesn't account for the across-the-spectrum dominance Lebron has shown.

Even if you took away the preferential treatment he gets, he'd still be essentially unstoppable in most situations.

At this point, if I had to take away from his game it's that he doesn't really play like a traditional baller in the sense that his game isn't built upon fakes, cross overs, footwork, more fakes, and 'moves'. He's not a player who really has 'moves', but he doesn't really need them, is kind of the point. You can make the argument that he plays to the contemporary NBA in that sense. He plays in a way that is most conducive towards being effective in the current state of NBA play, and you can knock him for that a little, but it doesn't make it any less 'good'. Another way of looking at it is that he plays extremely smart. He knows the meta game of the NBA, he grew up with a different NBA than guys like Kobe did, and built his game around that. In fact, part of our frustrations with Kobe at times stem exactly from Kobe's old-school mentality.

It doesn't take much to see how guard-dominant the league has become. Guys like Westbrook, Irving, Rondo, Rose, Wall are the beneficiaries of how the game is officiated these days, "First step" players. Lebron happens to play similarly only in a 6'8/250 frame. I do not think Lebron would be as dominant if he was playing in the era of Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson...etc. But that is all hypothetical. As it stands, in the way the game is played today, he is pinnacle.

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:02 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:people are too much on kobe's you know what. i used to be like that but i could still give my props...

'lebrons game is ugly' ???? is why you dont think he's the best?

did u see his defense and dunks against the lakers? oh yea he also hit a clutch shot at the end that pretty much ended the game.

I never understand the notion that because someone doesn't think Lebron walks on water the person must be a "kobe nutt rider". Are you saying that those who support Lebron as the best are "Lebron nutt riders?"

Well hell, Andre from the Clippers dunks all game long, blake does too, hell Amare and Josh Smith get great dunks. That doesn't make them great. Now before you get all "OMG did you just compare them" I know they aren't even in Lebrons planet. LBJ is arguably the best in the game right now but your statement doesn't prove it.

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:14 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:I don't agree with much of the opinions of Lebron James on this page.

Lebron James, for all the hype he was given, has exceeded the hype. Think about 2003, when the whole world knew his name before he played a preseason game in the league. How well did you think (personally) he would play in year one? Did you ever see him 20, 5, and 5? One of only three guys to do it? I didn't. I don't think anyone did. I also didn't think he would get to the finals by age 21. But he did...with Eric Snow and Larry Hughes as his best players alongside of him. 9 years later, he has 20K in points, 5K in assists, 3 MVPs, 3 all-star game MVP's, 1 finals MVP and a ring...and counting. He's been the best player in the world since 2010 and that will remain for awhile simply because no one in the game is more versatile with his size. His hype was justified. He really is that good.

As far as longevity goes in terms of athleticism, I think we have clearly underestimated the advance in medical technology. I definitely underestimated it. Look at Kobe Bryant, Ray Lewis, Derek Jeter, Tony Gonzalez...all guys who have played either 16 or 17 years in their respective sports and how productive they still are. It's more than impressive. We are now seeing the results of modern medical science and technology int he professional sports world coming forth. Lebron James at his lowest level of athleticism will be bigger, faster, and stronger than 85% of the league. With his work ethic, basketball I.Q. and passing ability, he'll play a long time in this league and be very productive.

Slim-

Even though I believe the Media rode/ride his jock before he got out of highschool. I agree, and have said, he did live up to most of the hype coming into the league. His game was still based sheer on power early but none of the media critiqued that. The guy is one of, if not the top, player in the league which can't really be argued away. In any case, my personal opinion is that I don't believe his game has evolved enough (at this time) to make me believe he will remain at the top of his game late in is career. I could be wrong that is for sure but so could everyone who says he will continue to be great.I think Realdeal asked, "what will he be like once he gets that injury that effects his athleticism?" Isn't that a far question? The media has basically said Kobe would not be good because of injuries and age for the last 5 years.

V.V.V.V.V. · by **V.V.V.V.V.** on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:45 pm

LeBron is the best because of size, quickness and strength. I will concede that he has a great touch near the basket, flying towards the hoop at incredible speed and still getting the ball to go in. But he's almost an amateur basketball player with superior size and strength.

He reminds me of Shaquille, who was also almost an amateur player with superior size and strength. They're both smarter than the average player, and tons more dominant physically. Charles Barkley was a similar kind of player. His strength and will were superior to most players in the league, although his game was never that complete. He had a size advantage like LeBron, but no speed advantage. And when Shaquille and Charles both lost their ability to jump, it was over for them. Contrast KAJ, who continued to play solid bb way after he lost his athleticism, using moves with quality footwork to get his shots off.

I think what bothers me so much about LeBron, besides the overhype of course, is that his game is ugly, and yet he can beat everyone because its like he's a man beating up on a league who athletically are boys compared to him. I loved Shaq's dominance when he played for us, but I always disliked his ugly game. And since lebron doesn't have a grasp of the fundamentals, it's frustrating to see some one who's already faster than everyone get an extra advantage, when getting away with carrying the ball or getting an extra step or an illegal first step. I remember older friends of mine complaining 10 years ago about the lack of fundamentals in the nba, and now it's even worse with LeBron, the most talented player in the league, with even less fundamentals.

I consider Kobe to be the best basketball player in the league, since he's the arguably the best shotmaker of all time, and he has incredible fundamentals. I'd put Tim Duncan second, due to his incredible fundamentals. I would put LeBron in a category with Shaquille, the "most unbeatable" player in the league, or maybe MDE.

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:57 pm

Solid points.

revgen · by **revgen** on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:04 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:He reminds me of Shaquille, who was also almost an amateur player with superior size and strength.

I don't agree with this statement at all. Shaq was a hellava better passer out of the post than many bigs are today. And he managed to score 18ppg @60FG% at the age of 36 and make the ASG in 2009 despite losing all of his legendary athleticism from his prime years. He mostly lived on hook shots and footwork at that stage of his career. Now were his jump hooks and footwork Kareem-level or Tim Duncan level? No, but it was effective even with all of his hops gone. Hardly what I'd call "almost an amateur player".

"Almost an amateur" better describes D12 when it comes to offense. Lebron has some pro skills. His 3pt shot is a lot better than it was when he entered the league and I think his ball-handling is also top notch. The rest is natural talent.

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:44 am

^I agree that Lebron has definetly improved his 3-pointer and his post game which were both laughable only 2 years ago. I don't believe he has the work ethic to continue to evolve his game for when he can no longer physically dominate. Although, I did not believe he would ever improve his jumper but I have to admit he has a pretty reliable 3-ball now. It isn't great but it is solid. He may very well put in a Kobe-esque workout to improve his game this summer.

John3:16 · by **John3:16** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:57 am

Lebron had a crazy stat line last night. Only 50 points away from Kobe's career high.

BigDan24 · by **BigDan24** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:34 pm

John3:16 wrote:Lebron had a crazy stat line last night. Only 50 points away from Kobe's career high.

THEONE24 · by **THEONE24** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:35 pm

A bunch of hating, bitter, Kobe fans. Why am i not surprised? You guys will say anything to discredit LeBron. "He's only the best player because of his athleticism." "He doesn't work as hard as Kobe.", ect. Like it or not, other than having a few higher PPG than LeBron, Kobe has never played as consistent as LeBron has played so far.

Chillbongo · by **Chillbongo** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:02 pm

THEONE24 wrote:"He's only the best player because of his athleticism."

Actually I think it's more like, "his athleticism is what makes him such a great player." But he has great court vision and defensive instincts, I'll admit that.

THEONE24 wrote:"He doesn't work as hard as Kobe."

Well that's subjective in a sense, because none of us REALLY know. But here's my argument. Footwork: Kobe >LeBron, Jump shot: Kobe> LeBron, Post game: Kobe> LeBron, Mid-range game: Kobe>LeBron

How do you get better at those things? Working on them.

THEONE24 wrote:other than having a few higher PPG than LeBron, Kobe has never played as consistent as LeBron has played so far.

Wait, what? They're actually near even in career scoring average. What exactly is your definition of consistent? Kobe has been doing what he has for almost 15 years straight... :man3:

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:03 pm

What are you talking about? Almost every poster here acknowledges that LeBron is the best player in the NBA and we're haters?

Gtfo. Just because we're not slobbering on his jock doesn't make us haters.

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:53 pm

THEONE24 wrote:A bunch of hating, bitter, Kobe fans. Why am i not surprised? You guys will say anything to discredit LeBron. "He's only the best player because of his athleticism." "He doesn't work as hard as Kobe.", ect. Like it or not, other than having a few higher PPG than LeBron, Kobe has never played as consistent as LeBron has played so far.

yaa... Lebrons fanboy is back. You want to attack my post then bring it but don't come in here with this crap. No one in the league has Kobe's work ethic when it comes basketball and improvement. NO ONE.

Let the trolls tell Kobe is lucky to be mentioned in the same breath as Lebron. Yea, who is the fool? Not the Kobe fans. Oh by the way, reading is fundamental, very few people have hated on your precious king. Go on somewhere with your slobber job or come with something better than this troll crap.

Basketball Fan · by **Basketball Fan** on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... s/related/

Ohio rejecting some LeBron James hater license plates

Some fans in Ohio are still pretty pissed at LeBron James for leaving for South Beach.

But you can’t put that on your car. Apparently.

The Dayton Daily News in Ohio looked at personalized license plates rejected by the state‘s Bureau of Motor Vehicles and found some LeBron James hate did not make the cut. (Be warned: if you are easily offended do not click that link, some of the non-LeBron ones got rejected for pretty obvious reasons.) Thanks to Rob Mahoney at Sports Illustrated for finding this.

Among the LeBron ones were:

• IH8LBJ
• LBJSUCK
• LBJSUX.

My question: Is that really so offensive as to get rejected? I could think of some four-letter phrases with LBJ tacked on that would and should get rejected. But if you hate LeBron James is that going to offend people or lead to fights or something?

Or, maybe Ohio just wants to protect the legacy of Texas Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson. Say he sucks and those are fightin’ words.

Official LBJ thread: 2 Late game TO's. Clutch Rating now?

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: 2 MVP's, Ring, Gold = Better than MJ

Re: Official LBJ thread: Kobe never as good as LBJ (THEONE24)

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