Official Miami Heat "DreamTeam" Thread: Miami Plan A Success

Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby thkthebest on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:38 am

I can somewhat understand your point and I know you think LeBron's first choice isn't Miami. However, realistically, Wade won't accept the #2 role. I can think of three obvious points off the top of my head. First, it's his team. PP took less a lesser role with KG and Ray, but it still felt a lot like Pierce's team. KG was taking some of that thunder from PP, but in the end, PP won the Finals MVP.

Second, KG, PP, and Ray were all 30 or older when they signed. LeBron and Bosh are 25. They haven't suffered as much losing as the other three. It's not just one player taking on less of a role. It's all three. They would all have to somehow agree to taking a lesser role. These three haven't lost enough to do that. For example, KG lost his entire career. He was loyal to a fault. He lost for 12 years or so before heading to Boston. 12 years would be about half of LeBron's or Bosh's age. Lol.

My final point is that Wade already won a ring as the man. He knows (or thinks) he can win a ring as the man as long as he has a decent cast. Because of that, accepting the #2 role would be even more difficult or unrealistic.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:19 pm

Pat Riley Building A Dynasty
Wade: I think to win, you've got to have team players and be around team players. I'm a team guy. LeBron's a team guy.


"So here we are," Riley said.

Yes, and that dynasty Riley envisioned four years ago might still be born. Dwyane Wade wants to stay in Miami. He wouldn't mind having LeBron James join him. Or Chris Bosh. Or both, for that matter. And if there's one team in the NBA that has the financial ability to get three of the top five picks in the 2003 draft together for the next few years, it's likely going to be Miami.

It's a heck of a fantasy basketball lineup — Wade, James and Bosh.

Yet in the summer of 2010, fantasy could actually become reality.

"I think it will be equivalent to a space shuttle launch," Riley said back in May, shortly after the season ended and the Heat summer of 2010 began. "Everybody who's covering the day it's going to get launched, you never know it is until they hit the button. When they hit the button, a lot of things explode down underneath to lift the rocket up."

Get ready for some explosions, the first wave of which has already arrived.

Henry Thomas, Wade's agent, said Tuesday the 2006 finals MVP has talked with both James and Bosh (whom Thomas also represents) in recent days
If Wade re-signs, Miami would still have about $27 million left to court others. And Wade has been letting certain guys know that he'd like them as teammates.

Let the games begin.

"I don't look at it as recruiting," Wade told The Associated Press. "I look at it as gauging, conversation between guys to see what they like. It's not like we're getting together saying 'You go here, I'll go here and we'll meet in the conference finals.' It's not like that. You do conversations to see what a guy is thinking. If they're a free agent and want to know what Miami can do for them, I'll gauge them in conversation."

What Miami will start doing Thursday is a rarity.

When that clock hits 12:01, the Heat could have only two players under contract. Every deal Riley has struck for the last few years has been with this day in mind, not wanting to take on any contract that would keep him from digging as deeply as possible in owner Micky Arison's pockets this summer.

"We have been in this for two years," Riley said.

Unlike other teams with cap space, Miami can offer the likes of James and Bosh the chance to play with a former NBA finals MVP, assuming Wade wants to stick around. There's no state income tax in Florida, so millions more would stay in a free agent's bank account. And then there's the lure of Riley, who even though he's retired from coaching still has an exalted reputation among many players.
But there's been signs James and Bosh might want to reunite with their Olympic teammate, too.

James and the Cleveland Cavaliers visited Miami on Nov. 12. The Heat have No. 23 retired in their arena, a nod to Michael Jordan's career even though he never played for Miami. After that night's game, James announced he would not wear No. 23 after the 2009-10 season.

Coincidence?

"I think to win, you've got to have team players and be around team players," Wade said. "I'm a team guy. LeBron's a team guy."

Bosh thinks he's one, too.

When he was in Miami over the weekend, he made no secret that he enjoyed the city's vibe and even took to Twitter to rave about hanging out in a cabana. It's been surmised for some time that Riley — who's always drooled over the prospect of athletic interior players — has Bosh near the top of his wish list.

"It might be a pretty good fit, if it were like that," Bosh told The AP. "And Miami as a city, it's no secret that people like Miami. I think the team has a pretty good reputation around the league for how they do things. It's been good. They've had some good runs here, with the title run being in there, and I know they want to get back. The city, the organization, they're very hungry to get back on top."

That process started years ago.

It ramps up again just past midnight Thursday.

"I know what I'm going to do," Riley said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOrtcj44ryEJtz75Hd-xpSyKoarQD9GL2D601
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby Weezy on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:22 pm

You REALLY want this to happen huh ShaqDieselLaker? :man10:
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Weezy wrote:You REALLY want this to happen huh ShaqDieselLaker? :man10:

Good entertainment. haha
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
If we don't win the championship, it's my fault- Ron(Tru Warier)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby nameant on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:30 pm

Building a dynasty eh?
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:37 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:I paid attention to this point. I see and hear it. But for a conflict to occur, it must take two people. You are alluding to the point that their will indeed be a conflict when you say this...

Why whould he? Because he knows what's important and what's at stake here - a championship. Possibly multiple championships. And that intrigues him...as it did Paul Pierce when Danny Ainge orchestrated the move to acquire Kevin Garnett. Paul stayed humble and was very productive. Garnett was productive. Even Ray-Ray was there, obviously. And they went to two finals in three years. The great catch was, these guys were losing their entire careers, so they had humilty as their over-arching emotion. That might be the most challenging thing to simulate for themselves. But by watching them, maybe these young fellas will galvanize themselves in the same mold...and try to take over the league. Its a possibility and I wouldn't rule it out. That's all. You are simply ruling it out because of the size of Lebron's ego. I dig. All I'm saying is, who knows? Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that under the right leadership, it could definitely work. Wilt (who had the biggest ego of all-time) and West were able to come together for a ring. I don't rule out the possibility. And if YOU were paying attention, I also said this in this very thread...


The only time it really begins to make sense for a team's leader to "step aside" is when he is nearing retirement. Why do it early on in your career and risk your legacy? This is the thought process which enters the minds of most superstar players. How could it not be? Who in their right mind as a team leader wants to go down as the guy who needed a big brother to carry him to a championship? I think this is something we can both agree on.

Now, as far as comparing Wilt and West to Wade and LBJ, that is a bad analogy. Obviously you were not sitting at the front of the class during Lakers History 101. It is a well documented fact that Wilt did not get along with van Breda Kolff. In fact you could say that they two pretty much hated each other. Not only that but while he supposedly got along with West, it is said that Wilt did not always get along with Elgin. Then there's the whole debate about what really happened with Wilt's knee in Game 7 of '69. Whether he was really too hurt to play or whether van Breda Kolff didn't want to play him. Wilt coming to LA was nowhere near as smooth as you suggest. In fact when Wilt first arrived, Jerry West began to struggle as a side effect of not being able to cope with bad locker room chemistry.

As far as the Boston Big 3 part II are concerned, it's a different situation. Paul Pierce doesn't have that same aggressive personality and killer instinct possessed by guys like Kobe and Wade. Wade may not always be as outspoken as say Bryant, but his ability to flat out dominate opponents and take over games is a trait that Pierce does not possess on a consistent basis. Pierce is good, he ain't Dwyane Wade good. Not only that but he was a perennial loser before the arrival of KG and Ray Allen unlike Wade who (aside from the refs depending on who you ask) was the one guy you could single out as being solely responsible for turning the tides of the entire '06 Finals. Not only that, KG and Ray Allen were the ones who were willing to step aside for a chance to play for a chip. At the time that they arrived in Boston, they still respected the fact that it was Pierce's team they were going to and Pierce's team they would be playing for. This is exactly my point with LBJ. If Lebron can respect the fact that he's going to Wade's team, then like the Big 3 2.0, it can work. The problem I see is that up until this point, LBJ hasn't really shown anyone that he's ready to change in terms of being overly concerned with his image. Could he change that? Sure. But all we have to go on at the moment is history, and after watching the guy fake an elbow injury and flat out quit during the most important game of his career up until this point, why should anyone give him the benefit of the doubt?

You mention below some hypothetical "ifs" you'd be willing to put money on if you were a betting man. Well, would you be wiling to bet on LBJ suppressing his ego after all the dancing, douching and dumbassery? You also go on to mention that you see Chicago and Cleveland as the most likely spots for LBJ to end up this summer. Well if you're so confident that a great coach can keep it together and that there's a good probability these guys sacrifice some salary for the chance at a ring, why isn't Miami on your list? I'll tell you why. Because there's no way you'd bet your hard earned money on that gamble.

Iceberg Slim wrote:I will say this...it wouldn't last long. Lebron cares about his numbers, I believe. He wants to be the combination of Oscar, Michael, and Magic in the stat book. I can't knock him. Its how we measure legends outside of their championships. Once he's gets one in Miami (if it happens) he will bolt for his own team.

I guess you missed that.


Apparently I did because I agree with this statement entirely. Whether or not they win or lose, it won't last long. Multiple dominant personalities can potentially be kept in check, but only for a short period of time as we saw with Shaq and Kobe. If they win, each guy returns to his original path and tries to go out and get his on his own once again. If they lose, each guy becomes frustrated at what they gave up in order to come together and they split up in an attempt to redeem their individual legacies. The only thing I disagree with is the "one and done" theory. If these three guys get together in Miami and win within a year or two, I see the possibility of them staying together for one or two more. I think the window lasts for the duration of their contracts.

Iceberg Slim wrote:We see your point. At least I do. What I'm trying to convey is, how do you know Dwyane Wade cares about whose house it is? Here is a fact: the house SUCKS. The house was once the land of milk and honey. It was heaven in 2006. But that was four long years ago. And things have changed on Biscayne Blvd. First round exits are a promise on South Beach now. Sure, the weather is awesome. But the winning culture that has eluded them is as cold as New York City. Even though ego's could clash, (its certaintly plausible) I'm inclined to believe that Wade and James simply could come together and say "You know what, we are friends. We are the best in the world. And we have 14 combined years between us and only one ring. I got MVP's, we have gold medals, and you have a chip. Let's unite and take this $h!t by storm. It could happen. I just enjoy hypothesizing on the possibility, lol. Why so serious?

In conclusion, if I'm a betting man, Lebron goes to one of two places though - Chicago or stays in Cleveland. I've been saying that since the beginning of this whole sweepstakes.


Dwyane Wade cares about whose house it is because he's Dwyane Wade and because he's brought the city of Miami a championship. Toronto is a worse team than Miami yet if Wade were to bolt South Beach for a chance to play with Bosh in Canada, would you look at it as anything other than Wade going to play in Bosh's house? A franchise player cares about whose face is on the billboards in his city.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:36 pm

Heat take another step toward Superteam, waive James Jones

The dream is alive in Miami. Well, unless you're James Jones.

In their attempt to strip the team down to the studs and rebuild, the Miami Heat bought out the final two years of Jones' deal, Ira Winderman reports. They had to pay him $1.86 million, but they are now out of his $4.65 million. Because of the odd way things amortize things against the cap, this adds about $3 million to what the Heat can spend.

Let me be more specific -- that is three million more for LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to divide up.

Miami is working hard to make that superteam dream a reality, although they need to move Marcus Beasley to really make that happen. And they are trying hard. But if they do they can almost offer three max deals (someone would need to take a little pay cut).

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/heat-take-another-step-toward-superteam-waive-james-jones.php
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
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Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
If we don't win the championship, it's my fault- Ron(Tru Warier)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby GinoDB on Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:47 pm

^^lol Marcus Beasley
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:54 pm

I think it's telling when a thread is dominated by coverage with few posts.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby Iceberg Slim on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:03 pm

How could it not be? Who in their right mind as a team leader wants to go down as the guy who needed a big brother to carry him to a championship? I think this is something we can both agree on.


This is something we do NOT agree on, much like everything else you and I debate about. This is something Kobe Bryant always touched on. Bryant was always fustrated about the fact that people said he couldn't win one w/o Shaq and blah, blah, blah. He repeatedly said that its the dumbest argument in the world. Why? Because everyone needs someone anyway. If it ain't Shaq, its someone else. So, when Kobe won his 5th ring, he did so with the best overall big man in the league...again. Even though its a possibility (considering I don't know Dwyane Wade personally) I'm inclined to think he's smart enough and humble enough to know the same. He seems like he wouldn't care. And since we have no way to really verify, we can only take guys at face value, right? So, what has Wade said on the topic?

"
I think to win, you've got to have team players and be around team players. I'm a team guy. LeBron's a team guy.


I don't have to speak for the guy. His words say it all. He is recruiting Lebron James to come play with him. You don't think he understands the implication of this all? More than you and I do, lol? Like I said, Wade looks like he's positioning himself to play with a guy who can win him and rings and at times, take a back seat when necessary. That's what being a TEAM is all about. And Wade is a team player. And even though Bron has an ego, you can't name any better TEAM players than him either. Please, stop reaching for things that support your argument when the actual subjects are (at the least) displaying quite the opposite.


Now, as far as comparing Wilt and West to Wade and LBJ, that is a bad analogy. Obviously you were not sitting at the front of the class during Lakers History 101. It is a well documented fact that Wilt did not get along with van Breda Kolff. In fact you could say that they two pretty much hated each other. Not only that but while he supposedly got along with West, it is said that Wilt did not always get along with Elgin. Then there's the whole debate about what really happened with Wilt's knee in Game 7 of '69. Whether he was really too hurt to play or whether van Breda Kolff didn't want to play him. Wilt coming to LA was nowhere near as smooth as you suggest. In fact when Wilt first arrived, Jerry West began to struggle as a side effect of not being able to cope with bad locker room chemistry.


No team is without problems. You're dealing with humans here, lol! Of course, their will be some head butts. There were many in Chicago. There were many in recent Laker years. And their will be more. But before you question my knowledge on Laker history, make sure you make sense and have cleaned your bifocals as well. Ultimately, throughout all the "problems" they won a damn ring for it. That negates alot. Number two, understand the brillance of van Brenda Kolff. He understood that there was a certain way you had to prod a Wilt Chamberlain. You never told Wilt what to do. You offered a suggestion. And then Kolff, after Chamberlain would disagree, would allow Wilt to get the ball where he saw fit and they would see which philosophy worked better. Kolff always won. And for it, Wilt took the lesser scorer role after being taught by Kolff. In his second to last year, Wilt sacrificed his game to only average 14.8 points per game, focused on defense more, and snagged 19.2 rebounds that year...en route to a ring. He also went First-Team All-Defense. The 33-game winning streak during the regular season was simply more of a testament to the scarifice made by the team, especially Wilt. So, dont get it confused Bruddha. I know my $hit and do my homework.

Paul Pierce doesn't have that same aggressive personality and killer instinct possessed by guys like Kobe and Wade.


Fail.

Even if you had some credibility, you just lost it. Outside of Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, and Steve Nash, you can't name a more clutch player in the last 10 years in the NBA. If so, provide a short list. And please don't name Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, and Derek Fisher above him. They hit big shots. But Paul has CARRIED teams. Paul Pierce ALWAYS had ice in his veins. You don't earn nicknames like "The Truth" for no reason in this league. He's had bigger playoff games, moments, and shots than 99% of the NBA. Its simply asinine to call him anything different. Did he have a bad post season this year? Sure. The worst of his career probably. But excluding this year, look at his body of work. I almost stopped reading your paragraph from that point on.


Well if you're so confident that a great coach can keep it together and that there's a good probability these guys sacrifice some salary for the chance at a ring, why isn't Miami on your list? I'll tell you why. Because there's no way you'd bet your hard earned money on that gamble.


My confidence and my money doesn't lie on the ability of Pat Riley. My confidence (or lack thereof) lies on Lebron James actually going there. Sure, its a possibility he will, like I've said. But, I do think he's weighing the concerns of not only winning but being the head honcho while doing it. If he can garner both in one fell swoop, he will pounce on the opportunity. Its why I think Bosh will meet him in Chicago or Cleveland. He's an ego driven dude. No doubt about it. Therefore, he will bask in the glory without a third head at the table. I'm betting MORE money on that. And its probably a smart business move if I did.

Dwyane Wade cares about whose house it is because he's Dwyane Wade and because he's brought the city of Miami a championship. Toronto is a worse team than Miami yet if Wade were to bolt South Beach for a chance to play with Bosh in Canada, would you look at it as anything other than Wade going to play in Bosh's house? A franchise player cares about whose face is on the billboards in his city.


You're a know-it-all huh? Lol. Ayo, you got Wade in your T-Mobile Fave Five? You talked to him about this right? Oh, I see now.

The Heat suck. The Raptors suck. And two years ago, people doubted if D-Wade would even be the same after that disatrous year him and his team managed. They were all writing him off. Then the Olympics came and people knew he was back. Personally, I think they could care less, bro. I think you care more than they do. "Bosh's house", "Wade's house", whatever. The only house people care about are winning houses. Who's got good real estate? L.A. does. That's "Kobe's house". Orlando ain't Dwight's house. Chicago ain't Rose's house. All this stuff is stupid. And I think players care more about winning (which means acquiring talent and other big names) so they can have a parade...not a billboard.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:38 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:This is something we do NOT agree on, much like everything else you and I debate about. This is something Kobe Bryant always touched on. Bryant was always fustrated about the fact that people said he couldn't win one w/o Shaq and blah, blah, blah. He repeatedly said that its the dumbest argument in the world. Why? Because everyone needs someone anyway. If it ain't Shaq, its someone else. So, when Kobe won his 5th ring, he did so with the best overall big man in the league...again. Even though its a possibility (considering I don't know Dwyane Wade personally) I'm inclined to think he's smart enough and humble enough to know the same. He seems like he wouldn't care. And since we have no way to really verify, we can only take guys at face value, right? So, what has Wade said on the topic?


I think to win, you've got to have team players and be around team players. I'm a team guy. LeBron's a team guy.


Iceberg Slim wrote:I don't have to speak for the guy. His words say it all. He is recruiting Lebron James to come play with him. You don't think he understands the implication of this all? More than you and I do, lol? Like I said, Wade looks like he's positioning himself to play with a guy who can win him and rings and at times, take a back seat when necessary. That's what being a TEAM is all about. And Wade is a team player. And even though Bron has an ego, you can't name any better TEAM players than him either. Please, stop reaching for things that support your argument when the actual subjects are (at the least) displaying quite the opposite.


In case you've forgotten, the original point I made is that no matter how you slice it, egos are always involved. You suggested that a theoretical super team would work because of Riley. I responded with "it's possible, if LBJ sets aside HIS ego." Dwyane Wade recruiting others to come and play in Miami = Dwyane Wade recruiting others to come and play for him. It's still his team, it's still his building. This is the point I was making. I never said that he wouldn't be willing to play with Bosh and LBJ, I said LBJ's ego would be the deciding factor as to whether or not it could work. Wade's ego isn't in question because if the others go to South Beach to join him, they're already (whether they like it or not) taking a back seat on Wade's bus.

Iceberg Slim wrote:No team is without problems. You're dealing with humans here, lol! Of course, their will be some head butts. There were many in Chicago. There were many in recent Laker years. And their will be more. But before you question my knowledge on Laker history, make sure you make sense and have cleaned your bifocals as well. Ultimately, throughout all the "problems" they won a damn ring for it. That negates alot. Number two, understand the brillance of van Brenda Kolff. He understood that there was a certain way you had to prod a Wilt Chamberlain. You never told Wilt what to do. You offered a suggestion. And then Kolff, after Chamberlain would disagree, would allow Wilt to get the ball where he saw fit and they would see which philosophy worked better. Kolff always won. And for it, Wilt took the lesser scorer role after being taught by Kolff. In his second to last year, Wilt sacrificed his game to only average 14.8 points per game, focused on defense more, and snagged 19.2 rebounds that year...en route to a ring. He also went First-Team All-Defense. The 33-game winning streak during the regular season was simply more of a testament to the scarifice made by the team, especially Wilt. So, dont get it confused Bruddha. I know my $hit and do my homework.


Once again you resort to conjuring up excuses after making a poor analogy. You attempted and failed to relate West and Wilt to Wade and Bron and I corrected you by stating that all was not as cheeky as you implied with your terrible comparison. In fact it was quite the opposite and now you say "well everyone has their problems". That's precisely my point. Thanks for reinforcing it for me.

Paul Pierce doesn't have that same aggressive personality and killer instinct possessed by guys like Kobe and Wade. Wade may not always be as outspoken as say Bryant, but his ability to flat out dominate opponents and take over games is a trait that Pierce does not possess on a consistent basis.


Iceberg Slim wrote:Fail.

Even if you had some credibility, you just lost it. Outside of Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, and Steve Nash, you can't name a more clutch player in the last 10 years in the NBA. If so, provide a short list. And please don't name Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, and Derek Fisher above him. They hit big shots. But Paul has CARRIED teams. Paul Pierce ALWAYS had ice in his veins. You don't earn nicknames like "The Truth" for no reason in this league. He's had bigger playoff games, moments, and shots than 99% of the NBA. Its simply asinine to call him anything different. Did he have a bad post season this year? Sure. The worst of his career probably. But excluding this year, look at his body of work. I almost stopped reading your paragraph from that point on.


I stated that Pierce does not have the same aggressive personality as guys like Kobe and Wade, nor does he possess their killer instinct at all times. I like how you neglected to include the sentence which immediately followed the one you quoted. My point is that Pierce can, but he doesn't always. I'm sorry but not showing up for the most important game of your career is inexcusable, especially when a 35 year old Sheed had the balls to do it. You can say "yeah well he didn't have a great year". That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. Fact is, no one would be talking about what a clutch player Pierce can be at times had KG and Ray not showed up to help in '08. And yes, I'd take Chauncey in the clutch over Pierce.

Iceberg Slim wrote:My confidence and my money doesn't lie on the ability of Pat Riley. My confidence (or lack thereof) lies on Lebron James actually going there. Sure, its a possibility he will, like I've said. But, I do think he's weighing the concerns of not only winning but being the head honcho while doing it. If he can garner both in one fell swoop, he will pounce on the opportunity. Its why I think Bosh will meet him in Chicago or Cleveland. He's an ego driven dude. No doubt about it. Therefore, he will bask in the glory without a third head at the table. I'm betting MORE money on that. And its probably a smart business move if I did.


I supposed it's difficult for me to debate a point with someone when all he does is change his mind. You stated earlier that "you don't buy into this whole ego thing" and "you don't think it matters because of Riley." Obviously you do. You may as well just surrender and admit what we all know, that you were simply arguing for the sake of arguing. When I have to remind you with every reply about what we were originally discussing...yeah, I'm pretty sure that means you're getting off base here.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby Iceberg Slim on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:48 pm

Eh....agree to disagree. Good day, sir.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:51 pm

Heat's Pat Riley must convince Lebron James, Chris Bosh

As Heat president Pat Riley prepares to pitch his dream scenario of a Dwyane Wade/LeBron James/Chris Bosh troika to the three players, Riley not only needs to convince James to share the spotlight with Wade but also to erase Bosh's skepticism about the feasibility of Riley's three-superstar plan. When Riley meets with James this week in Akron, Ohio, and Bosh in the coming days, he must address questions about how much Miami can pay them (all three can get maximum salary if Michael Beasley is traded and Joel Anthony's qualifyfing offer is rescinded) and how their games will be affected by playing with two other big-time scorers.

``I don't see it happening,'' Bosh told us this past weekend of the idea of the three playing together on the Heat.

``I don't even know how it would work. It sounds pie in the sky. Riley is known as a guy who is like a mastermind-type genius. He's probably having a vision one day. But who knows? I don't see it happening.''

Despite Bosh's skepticism, the three-star alignment gained momentum the past few days, with Wade advocating the plan in talks with the other two stars. Riley, hopeful but uncertain he can pull it off, also plans to meet this week with Utah free agent forward Carlos Boozer.

James and Wade have spoken to Boozer in recent days, and Wade made clear he would welcome playing with Boozer, who's a close friend. (That could happen only if Bosh -- Miami's prefered choice -- signs elsewhere.)

Bosh said Miami is in ``top contention'' for him and looked at houses in South Florida this past weekend, though nothing definitive should be drawn from that.

If James can be persuaded by Riley and Wade to sign with the Heat, it would not be surprising if they convince Bosh to join them. One obstacle would be if Toronto rejects the Heat's sign-and-trade efforts for Bosh, and Bosh accepts a sign-and-trade elsewhere, perhaps with strong suitors Houston and Chicago, to get a more lucrative contract.

• If James agrees to join the Heat and Bosh balks, Miami is poised to pursue Boozer to team with Wade and James. Boozer's camp was told he is Miami's No. 2 power forward choice behind Bosh. Boozer, who would love to sign with Miami, will meet with the Heat, Knicks, Nets and Bulls.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/29/1707168/heats-pat-riley-must-convince.html#ixzz0sHVOnyJK
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby gcclaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:18 pm

James, Bosh and Wade would make a heck of a triumvirate but who will play the middle? Will they afford an adequate bench? Does it have enough togetherness, savvy, mental toughness and the will to unseat the current East champs? It would be a one big, crazy "wet dream" for the media to hype. ANYTHING to dismiss The League's historic rivalry as a relic and to unseat the defending champs whom everyone is probably sick of except the hard core Laker fanbase.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby Congo Cash on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:26 pm

Unless you allow 3 balls to use in the game that trio will not work... Lebron taking a back seat on Wade's house? Thanks for the laugh...
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby JSM on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:43 pm

This is going to be one hell of a weekend with these guys announcing where they're going to play next year...regardless of what they decide.

Honestly, I don't see Bron going to Miami. I think he goes to Chicago where he has a very good team, but is still the man. He'll have to share the ball with Rose, but nothing close to the amount of sharing he'd have to do in this scenario. It also keeps him lower on the record books and limits his personal accolades and he cares too much about his place in history.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:15 pm

Big Three in Miami would be nice, but then what?

There has to be a true team in place, with depth and skills that supplement the stars. Shooting, rebounding, defense, dirty work. The bench needs to hold its own. Riley, er, Eric Spoelstra can't roll out the WBL for 45 minutes a night. That's a recipe for injury or being worn down before the playoffs even start.

Championship teams have always employed trusted role players alongside their legends. A roll call of selfless worker bees vital to recent title quests includes Derek Fisher, James Posey and Robert Horry. The New Heat would need to find those types.

So while Riley wouldn't exactly bring in YMCA weekend warriors to complement his Olympic trio, he's got to consider his limited options carefully to ensure the most expensive summer in NBA pays off. Past-their-prime veterans, unused/discarded young free agents and unproven rookies would have to share the same Hall-of-Fame space.

Second-round picks aren't guaranteed contracts or roster spots, but the Heat's three second rounders have to feel pretty secure about 2010-11. Big men Dexter Pittman (Texas) and Jarvis Varnado (Mississippi State) are needed in the frontcourt, while guard Da'Sean Butler (West Virginia) is considered a steal if he comes back strong from a devastating knee injury.

It's going to take more than three promising rookies to build a title contender. Miami would have its mid-level exception to spend, which could be used for one free agent or split among several. Among those tested vets who could be considered: swingmen Matt Barnes and Ime Udoka, point guards Nate Robinson and Steve Blake, center Brad Miller, small forward Josh Howard, power forwards Al Harrington and Drew Gooden, and shooting guards Mike Miller and Roger Mason.

Several younger players still looking for an opportunity to shine include point guards Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown, power forwards Amir Johnson and Josh Powell, and center Ian Mahinmi. The Lakers are sure to lose Farmar and/or Brown, with Farmer being a restricted free agent. Everyone else listed above is unrestricted.

Any of the above would provide quality depth, NBA know-how and wouldn't be in awe of their glamorous teammates. Getting one or possibly two from that group would go a long way toward balancing out the locker room. Starting jobs would also be there for the taking at center and point guard.

As for the minimum-wage route, a number of names with impressive résumés but on the career downside would probably be willing to hitch a ride on the WBL Express. For starters: Tracy McGrady, Kurt Thomas, Michael Finley, Anthony Carter, Anthony Johnson and Juwan Howard. What better place than Miami to prepare for retirement?

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/art_garcia/06/29/heat.options/
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:45 pm

Pat Riley has the charisma to put together today's version of the Dream Team

His last meeting with the South Florida media was a classic tease, with hints that he might return to coach if that were necessary to land a top free agent, plus a colorful analogy about the free-agency plans of every franchise relating to the excitement of a scheduled space-shuttle launch.

Now that the actual countdown is on, there's nobody in the NBA better known than Riley for shooting the moon on glitzy personnel plays.

Shaquille O'Neal, for instance, didn't have to accept a trade from the Lakers to Miami in 2004 at the breaking point of his turf war with Kobe Bryant, but he did. And what reason did Shaq give for choosing the Heat over other options?

"It was Pat Riley and Dwyane Wade," said Shaq, who predicted on the day of his arrival in Miami that the Heat would win an NBA title and two years later got to celebrate one.

Pat Riley and Dwyane Wade. The bait hasn't changed in Miami, just the monster fish. Not saying they're the same player, but let's put Shaq's 2004 numbers on the same scale with today's LeBron as a reminder of what that earlier blockbuster deal meant.

When Shaq came to the Heat, his career averages were 27.1 points and 12.1 rebounds, sweetened by three NBA Finals MVP awards. LeBron checks in right now at 27.8 points, 7.1 rebounds and no championship rings. Enormous output in each case, but no bigger than Riley can handle.

As for the clash of egos, Riley got some pretty fair mileage out of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson. Those three rolled in more Southern California parades than any Rose Bowl float.

So there's the only clear nugget of truth in this potential NBA free-agency bonanza. Miami has Riley. Chicago and New York and Cleveland and Dallas don't. Pool the front-office personnel and coaching staffs from those franchises together, as a matter of fact, and you won't match the charisma that Riles keeps in a single jar of hair gel.

Nobody knows much else, except that Thursday will come, inevitably, and major cities will be falling all over themselves to woo LeBron, pathetically, and Riley is the only one laying low, if you don't count carving out a little more cap space by waiving James Jones on Tuesday.

Already the political powers down south have called a truce, agreeing on a symbolic resolution renaming their home Miami-Wade County for the period of one week. We here at The Palm Bosh Post newspaper applaud the move, trusting that our readers in Belle Wade and Boca LeBron will agree.

The genie is out of the bottle. Heaven help Riley's season-ticket and marketing department if every Heat fan doesn't get his three wishes now.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/heat/commentary-miami-heats-pat-riley-has-the-charisma-776655.html
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
If we don't win the championship, it's my fault- Ron(Tru Warier)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby Tobias Funke on Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:11 pm

Wade being as good as he is and having won it all before (while Lebron bombed out twice with the #1 team going into the playoffs) will take away from the alpha dog status that Lebron has enjoyed since high school.

Bosh declared that he wants to be the main man, but would clearly be the #3 in this case.

Wade definitely wants the help, but he may very well still consider it his city, his team, his way though. Him and Lebron might agree to play together with both thinking that they'll be accommodated as "the man".

Cant just assume these guys will gel easily even if they decide to team up. You might as well go by super-star players' interactions in the all star game if you're going off of their time with Team USA. Just doesn't work that way.

Also, even Boston's Big 3 sacrificed stats, but they all still got their big paychecks. Money talks. Wade, James and Bosh may be fairly young and in their primes, but they know that they could be one serious injury away from never sniffing another big contract. They're not going to leave any money on the table, no matter which team they sign with or who they get to play with. These guys know what profits they make for franchises, so they'll pretty much always look to get paid. Cant say I blame them one bit.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby noobiew on Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:06 pm

What better place than Miami to prepare for retirement?


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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:36 pm

Breaking down the money of the Miami Big 3

Grab some coffee. A lot of numbers are coming:

Teams that have fewer than 12 players on their cap when free agency begins are given "cap charges" for every free roster spot up to 12. The amount is what a minimum-salaried rookie would receive next season. That number is $473,600. So Miami would have to assign that amount per slot for at least nine players, because after waiving/buying out Jones the Heat would only have two players, Beasley and Chalmers, under contract. (The 10th player is Wade, who has his own cap hold. More on him below.) Multiply $473,600 by nine and you get an additional $4,262,400 that the Heat have to carry on their books until they start signing players. Added to the $7.6725 million Miami is already carrying forward and you get approximately $11.9349 million in salaries and charges Miami has to have on its books, leaving the Heat with about $44.1 million in room.

Then there's Wade. Miami has to hold onto his rights even after he officially opts out, so that he can re-sign with the Heat under the "Larry Bird" provision of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. A Bird free agent that has gone through at least a second contract can maintain his rights with his team as long as it keeps a cap hold on him July 1. In Wade's case, given that he made more than the league average salary last season and because he's a "Larry Bird" free agent ending a contract after his rookie deal, he's subject to a different level of cap hold. For Wade, that would be 150 percent of his previous contract, which was $15.779 million last season. That means his cap hold on Miami's books is $23.66 million, until the Heat re-sign him. Then, the new figure would replace the $23.66 milliion. But until that happens, that $23.66 million is added to the $11.9349 million.

But the whole notion of this Trio of Terror rests on Miami's re-signing Wade. Let's say Wade re-signs for the maximum he could get under the CBA, which would be 105 percent of his previous salary, or $16.568 million. That figure would replace the $23.66 million on Miami's cap. Added to the $11.9349 million, Miami would then have $28,502,900 in committed salaries for next season, and $27.5971 million in room to be split between James and Bosh.

But James and Bosh are also on line for $16.568 million maximum salaries in the first year of their new deals. Wade would wind up with more money over the life of the contracts, however, because he would get bigger raises for re-signing with his own team (10.5 percent of the first-year total each season) than James or Bosh would get for signing with a new team (8 percent of the first-year total). If James or Bosh got the maximum he could, or $16.568 million of Miami's remaining room, that would leave only about $11 milllion for the other. Over the course of a five-year deal, the player taking the max in year one would wind up with about $96.1 milliion, while the player taking $11 million in year one would get about $63.8 million.

For the sake of argument, let's say instead that James and Bosh agree to split the $27.5971 million right down the middle, leaving each with about $13.79 million in first-year salary. Over five years that would give each an approximately $80 million deal -- an incredible windfall, to be sure, but still $16 million less than each would get if he got his maximum salary over a five-year deal. (A sixth season would increase the deficit even more.)

Of course, all three players could take less and split the available room, roughly, three ways, which would give each around $15 million to start next season.

Thomas would not say whether Bosh or Wade would take less money in order to play with each other, or with James, next season.

"They have to decide what's most important to them," he said. "It's my job to present to them all of the available options."

http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
If we don't win the championship, it's my fault- Ron(Tru Warier)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby AvenLarue on Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:57 am

"I don't see it happening,'' Bosh told us this past weekend of the idea of the three playing together on the Heat.

"I don't even know how it would work. It sounds pie in the sky. Riley is known as a guy who is like a mastermind-type genius. He's probably having a vision one day. But who knows? I don't see it happening.''


http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/30/1 ... vince.html

Sorry ShaqDieselLaker
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby kobeownslebron on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:38 am

LOL Bosh ain't going to Miami.
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby ShaqDieselLaker on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:50 am

AvenLarue wrote:
"I don't see it happening,'' Bosh told us this past weekend of the idea of the three playing together on the Heat.

"I don't even know how it would work. It sounds pie in the sky. Riley is known as a guy who is like a mastermind-type genius. He's probably having a vision one day. But who knows? I don't see it happening.''


http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/30/1 ... vince.html

Sorry ShaqDieselLaker

Yeah, should be interesting. There's a lot of drama here. Chicago is no good because Reinsdorf is garbage. NY is bad because, well they are BAD. The Nets are even worse. Miami has what it takes: good ownership and cast. The only two teams that will be prepared to win are Chicago and Miami. Chicago has too many downsides, with the Jordan comparison and the bad owner.

Who knows? Let's see what goes down. haha
Derek Fisher is the heart and soul of this team- Kobe(Black Mamba)
When we win it, it's going to taste much sweeter knowing I played with the injury- Andrew(Lionheart)
Tomorrow is another opportunity to accomplish great things- Pau(Pauwer)
Ron Artest is the Game 7 MVP- Phil(Zen Master)
Q:Pierce says series isn't coming back to LA? A: [Mean Stare]- Derek(President)
If we don't win the championship, it's my fault- Ron(Tru Warier)
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Re: The Miami Plan: LBJ, D-Wade, Bosh, & Pat Riley

Postby AvenLarue on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:08 am

According to Dan LeBatard, a S&T deal between Heat and Raptors has been agreed upon.

I hear bosh-miami is done ..bosh-wade shared agent avoids tampering...its why beasley, chalmers, anthony still here...raptors get them


via his Twitter http://twitter.com/LeBatardShow/status/17417534999
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