Pau Appreciation: UnBullievable, no S&T - Thx 4 the Memories

Would you re-sign Pau for ~7 million per?

Yes
53
38%
No
71
52%
Maybe (explain)
12
8%
 
Total votes : 136

Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 11:37 am

^^ With (if he resigns) Howard, Kobe, Nash and possibly MWP on the books if you amnesty Pau, doesn't that take you over the cap any way? How would we get under it this year even amnestying Pau? Maybe I'm just missing something?

To me, amnestying MWP and trading Pau makes the most sense. Pau gets you a position player or players. Granger is the target I'm most interested in for the reasons I stated. We need that starting level SF desperately. He fills the role. He's also an expiring so that doesn't interfere with 2014 plan. Making that move alone coupled with amnestying MWP saves the team $43 million in luxury tax considerations. That's a big deal. And if Granger plays anything close to what he used to play like pre-surgery he's actually an ideal kind of fit alongside Howard.
Last edited by Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 11:38 am

The Rock wrote: 2013/2014 we are not contending a championship.


We can if the Lakers get there head out there [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] and make smart decisions this summer.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 11:40 am

Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:I love people bag on the FO for signing too many old players and then they want to give a multi-year deal to Danny Granger of all players. HUH?


I know you're not talking about me because I never said we would be giving him a multi-year deal (unless he proves he is worth it), nor have I bagged on the FO for signing so called "old players." But I'll still respond. So as you corrected me in the other thread, Granger is 30 as of last month instead of 29. Is that supposed to be old? I said he was a young-ish player and to me he is. 30 for a small forward is pretty much right in the middle of a players' prime. Lebron James is only a year and a half younger than Granger. Do you consider him old? Or is 28 and a half so much younger than 30? I just think you're splitting hairs here.

The question mark for Granger is not his age, but his knee. If you're worried about his knee, join the club. So am I. I have no idea where he's at. But I like the idea that he's an EXPIRING contract, not a multi-year deal. He doesn't get in the way of the 2014 plan in any way. If he's healthy, and I concede that's a big if, he's just the kind of player I'd like to have on this team. He's a two way SF (our most glaring need) and he can shoot the three. Trade Pau for him and you have a better fit for the team and a young-ish player who might possibly be a good match with Howard going forward. Then you have this year to see how good he's going to be. If he is good you can negotiate with him.

To me it's all upside. I don't see what we lose by it. Obviously there's more luxury tax money to be saved by amnestying Pau than MWP, but in terms of fielding a better basketball team I'd rather take the chance on Granger than just let Pau go.


Wasn't directed at you specifically ... just, to all those on the Granger bus.

Well, if 30 isn't old and saying 28 = 30 then our team isn't old and we don't need to get any younger. I mean, if 28 and 30 are the same then so is 30 and 32. Which means, 30 and 34 are the same so Kobe is the same as 28. Which means, Steve Nash is the same as Kyrie Irving too. Unless, we're splitting hairs here.

We're having the same discussion in two different threads =)

The point is... what is the point of trading away Pau for Granger?

- Granger couldn't play at all this season because of injury
- Granger doesn't make you a contender.
- What do you do if Granger, in an expiring contract coming off an injury, trying to play for a final BIG contract, puts up big, big numbers? Then what?
- Granger is a nice player, but if you give any SF over 15 shots, plus 5-6 FTs per game, they could probably score in the high teens, with 2 assists and 5 boards per game.


Yeah, I figured you weren't aiming at me specifically, that's why I prefaced mine the way I did, JGC.

RE: the age thing - I know what you are saying - the point being that Granger isn't getting any younger or any better. And I do agree with that. As a player he's not on an upswing. My point though, was that he just turned 30. Lebron is not two years younger than him, it's a year and a half difference. He's 28 and a half if we are going to split hairs. My point is that age-wise they're both still in their primes. Generally speaking most pundits, and I'd agree with them, tend to think of pro ball players being in their prime from age 28-32. That's when their maturity, skills and court smarts usually catch up with their athleticism. That's the age when most guys hit their stride. So I don't think of Granger as old, or older. The main concern for me is not age, but that knee. That's my question mark.

As far as why I would trade Pau for Granger I think I've already spelled it out now pretty clearly in a few posts in each thread.


Prime is considered, AFAIK, to be around 27-28. Not sure where you're getting the 28-32 from.

If you look at players numbers over time, they usually post their best numbers at around 27-28 years of age. That means in most cases, they are on the way DOWN by the time they hit 30.

For example, Gasol is 32 and he is not in his prime. Hasn't been for a while now.

And I understand that you don't think of Granger as old but I'm saying that you probably should be. This time next year, he'll be a year younger than Pau Gasol and 2 years younger than MWP. Think about that.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Chillbongo on Mon May 06, 2013 11:41 am

I get what you're saying about the repeater tax. And obviously I know that's what you had in mind otherwise we wouldn't be discussing tax penalty amounts. But still, it makes less sense to amnesty Gasol. Personal feelings aside, he's an extremely serviceable player...you just don't amnesty someone in that situation, especially when they're off the books in a year.

Because MWP isn't effective at all on the court AND we'll save some money, it's more likely they'll look into Amnesty him before Pau. Like I said, a lot of things have to happen for the Lakers to amnesty Gasol, and the Lakers have said they are willing to pay to field a contender. Regardless of what we believe, they believe this team can contend next year with some minor changes and health.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby The Rock on Mon May 06, 2013 11:42 am

therealdeal wrote:
The Rock wrote:You guys are not taking into consideration the repeater tax. We absolutely have to do our best to get under the tax line. 2013/2014 we are not contending a championship. 2014 use draft pick (yes even a late 20s pick can yield a rotation player) + capspace to build a title contender. If a team has been a taxpayer in 3 consecutive season prior to 2014 it screws up everything for that year with even heavier penalties kicking in

We'll be under the tax line in 2014 when everyone comes off the books. I'm not forgetting anything. The team has repeatedly said they'll pay the money if they feel like they're fielding a competitive team. A team of Nash/Bryant/Granger/Howard is certainly competitive if they stay healthy. The key is putting usable pieces around them to help out.


I have very little faith in Steve Nash's ability to stay healthy so Im not sure, Unless he joins us in midseason or something where he plays only 40 games + playoffs I guess that could work.

But nah we need a better bench, more shooters, healthy bodies, lots of backcourt help
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby kray28 on Mon May 06, 2013 11:46 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
kray28 wrote:Ron's bro, Daniel, basically said that the opt-out will not happen. He'd be dumb as hell to do it.

So MWP is not opting out.


Since when did his brother read Ron's mind on future decisions? anything can happen.... especially with Peace.


According to Daniel, he convinced Ron not to do it, and Ron agreed after initially thinking about it.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 am

Daniel is most likely a closet Laker hater if that's even remotely true.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby kray28 on Mon May 06, 2013 12:25 pm

His brother is a Spurs fan from what I know.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Weezy on Mon May 06, 2013 12:31 pm

The Rock wrote:You guys are not taking into consideration the repeater tax. We absolutely have to do our best to get under the tax line. 2013/2014 we are not contending a championship so why make lateral moves (aka trade Pau for Granger - another big contract guy) . 2014 use draft pick (yes even a late 20s pick can yield a rotation player) + capspace to build a title contender. If a team has been a taxpayer in 3 consecutive season prior to 2014 it screws up everything for that year with even heavier penalties kicking in


I am taking it into account, 2014 is when we get under the cap. THIS upcoming season is when we take one last shot with a still expensive roster. I just want it to be with Howard, Kobe, Nash (unfortunately, can't see trading him) and someone other than Pau, because not changing at least some of the core is a recipe for the same thing that happened this season.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby khmrP on Mon May 06, 2013 12:33 pm

NO repeater tax if they are under the threshold starting 2014-2015 season, if 2014 plan is intact by then we will not be repeat offenders.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 12:37 pm

kray28 wrote:His brother is a Spurs fan from what I know.


Then he should mind his own business and not force others to make decisions on future considerations.... also Daniel has always been known to be a annoying douchebag on Twitter.... he is a tool.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby khmrP on Mon May 06, 2013 12:40 pm

I hope mgmt. amensty MWP the same day he opts in if they can't trade him for a bag of chips......I dont want him back for anything
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby lakersin4 on Mon May 06, 2013 12:52 pm

If he doesn't opt out & come back cheap you have to trade him.. or if there's no market for him use the amnesty.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 5:37 pm

After thinking about it, Heisler has been fired from the LAT for 2 years now, and writes blogs at Lakersnation which is ran by a bunch of teenagers and also he writes for the crappy NY Times... so how can you really trust his sources if he even has any? I think he's a tool.

edit: did anyone see his new article at Lakersnation? no wonder he got fired from LAT... he sounds like a broken record.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby karacha on Mon May 06, 2013 7:56 pm

Weezy wrote:
The Rock wrote:You guys are not taking into consideration the repeater tax. We absolutely have to do our best to get under the tax line. 2013/2014 we are not contending a championship so why make lateral moves (aka trade Pau for Granger - another big contract guy) . 2014 use draft pick (yes even a late 20s pick can yield a rotation player) + capspace to build a title contender. If a team has been a taxpayer in 3 consecutive season prior to 2014 it screws up everything for that year with even heavier penalties kicking in


I am taking it into account, 2014 is when we get under the cap. THIS upcoming season is when we take one last shot with a still expensive roster. I just want it to be with Howard, Kobe, Nash (unfortunately, can't see trading him) and someone other than Pau, because not changing at least some of the core is a recipe for the same thing that happened this season.


I strongly agree with this.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 10:45 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:After thinking about it, Heisler has been fired from the LAT for 2 years now, and writes blogs at Lakersnation which is ran by a bunch of teenagers and also he writes for the crappy NY Times... so how can you really trust his sources if he even has any? I think he's a tool.

edit: did anyone see his new article at Lakersnation? no wonder he got fired from LAT... he sounds like a broken record.


Heisler is 100 times better than anyone the LA Times currently staffs. He was the last knowledgeable basketball writer they had. When they bought him out I cancelled my subscription. Simers and Plaschke aren't even readable when it comes to basketball.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Tue May 07, 2013 6:33 am

Gasol will be expiring as a Laker...it's better than swallowing longer contracts in his stead, we pay the 80 million tax, TW will foot the bill. we set forth another mediocre product for the 4th consecutive season.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Tue May 07, 2013 8:32 am

KareemTheGreat33 wrote:Gasol will be expiring as a Laker...it's better than swallowing longer contracts in his stead, we pay the 80 million tax, TW will foot the bill. we set forth another mediocre product for the 4th consecutive season.


The Lakers should just amnesty Gasol if they don't find a valuable trade-partner. it would save us roughly 60 million.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby lakeshow2k4 on Tue May 07, 2013 5:54 pm

The Buss family signed off on the CBA if they can't afford a couple years of luxury tax payments they should sell the team. Don't see any team in their right mind trading for a guy that makes more than te current max who is obviously in decline. draft picks in this current CBA are so valuable too why would anyone give up a pick for Pau? They're definitely going to go at it one more time with this squad you figure 28-12 with injuries and hopefully that's with Howard re-signed and 100% healthy. Any changes should start and end with Nash and MwP. Not only is Nash a bad fit next to Kobe they bacially play 4 on 5 on defense. MwP contract sucks based on what he brings to the table. Basically Pau isn't going anywhere unless its a straight up trade for someone that publicly demands out of their current situation.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Savory Griddles on Tue May 07, 2013 6:00 pm

I posted in another thread, why not Pau for OJ Mayo? Is it adequate compensation? Of course not. But if Dallas strikes out on the big FA's this summer, Pau and Dirk would be a nice tandem to roll into next season with and it doesn't effect Dallas' long term cap situation. They have the cap space to absorb the 15 million dollar difference. OJ, while not an all-star, at least fills a need and saves us A TON of money. Both guys expire next year.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby jlkr on Wed May 08, 2013 11:59 am

Pau isn't going to bring back any first round picks. There isn't much that can be had for him that doesn't involve multi-year contracts, hence the interest in Granger or Mayo. But I think Dallas would want to stick Lakers with another multi-year contract in a trade for Mayo, don't think they can give that big a trade exception back. So I think Pau will be allowed to expire as a Laker.

MWP appears to have decided on the guaranteed money. Bird in the hand and all that. Can't say I blame him. So the team uses the amnesty on him. Now they have to resign Clark to fill that position and get someone to back him up.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby khmrP on Wed May 08, 2013 12:40 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:I posted in another thread, why not Pau for OJ Mayo? Is it adequate compensation? Of course not. But if Dallas strikes out on the big FA's this summer, Pau and Dirk would be a nice tandem to roll into next season with and it doesn't effect Dallas' long term cap situation. They have the cap space to absorb the 15 million dollar difference. OJ, while not an all-star, at least fills a need and saves us A TON of money. Both guys expire next year.


Mayo opted out of his last year making him a FA, so NO we cannot S&T to get him. We have to be below luxury tax limit or being only 4 mill over it after the trade and even in a scenario where Mayo signs for vet min still wouldn't work.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby davriver290 on Wed May 08, 2013 1:34 pm

I've asked this in another thread, but no one answered it. If we just resign Dwight, and Keep Gasol and Kobe... Can't we take one year of these extra fines and penalties? After this upcoming season is over, isn't Kobe's and Gasol's deals expired? Then we can possibly sign them for a lot less the next season? Cause that's a lot of money off the books right?
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby khmrP on Wed May 08, 2013 1:42 pm

davriver290 wrote:I've asked this in another thread, but no one answered it. If we just resign Dwight, and Keep Gasol and Kobe... Can't we take one year of these extra fines and penalties? After this upcoming season is over, isn't Kobe's and Gasol's deals expired? Then we can possibly sign them for a lot less the next season? Cause that's a lot of money off the books right?


no one said we couldn't pay the fines/penalties....its on ownereship to decide if its worth the money. IMO its not, bringing this team back in tact does NOTHING to our chances, all the old guys will just be that much older, slower and more injury prone. Also something to consider but just cause Pau/Kobe can sign for less doesn't mean they wouldn't affect our cap plan, CAP HOLD counts against the cap now, so say we have just Howard/Nash on the team after next season, Pau/Kobe contract value will still count against the cap ($50mill roughly) unless we renounce their birds rights and if that happens we can't go over the salary cap to resign them anymore, they can only be resigned for whatever cap room is left after we "hopefully" sign that other max guy.
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Re: Pau Discussion: Paussibly the last time we see him in P&G

Postby Vasashi17 on Wed May 08, 2013 1:45 pm

Pau Gasol: After talking to several specialists, I'm going to proceed to regenerate both of my patellar tendons and working hard to get back to my 100%
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