Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:13 pm

therealdeal wrote:But it doesn't prevent it. Teams have been doing it and doing it unsuccessfully forever. Charlotte has been to the playoffs I think once since their inception.

Teams are still tanking because there's no real incentive not to. Money sharing means they get paid anyway, they're making enough money out of the team to let it continue it's current path. At least in Barn's idea there's double incentives to make the playoffs and present a team that's at the very least competitive.


LOL. OK.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:15 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:But it doesn't prevent it. Teams have been doing it and doing it unsuccessfully forever. Charlotte has been to the playoffs I think once since their inception.

Teams are still tanking because there's no real incentive not to. Money sharing means they get paid anyway, they're making enough money out of the team to let it continue it's current path. At least in Barn's idea there's double incentives to make the playoffs and present a team that's at the very least competitive.


LOL. OK.

Good stuff.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:20 pm

One lottery ball for all teams that did not make playoffs.

Teams in playoffs get some sort of incentive the next season. i.e. Any rookie or veteran minimum contracts signed next year do not count on the books.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:58 pm

The system needs to find the right balance between preventing a team from purposely tanking and helping these same teams to acquire talent in order to improve their roster. There is no fullproof system. I think the current system is solid. Maybe the only thing I might change is you award the lottery teams an MLE exception or something like that and lower the odds of getting the top pick. So teams that tank will have lower odds of getting the top pick but have an additional MLE exception to work with. So you lessen the incentive to tank while giving these bad teams an additional MLE to add needed talent.

At least the NBA system prevents teams from outright tanking like the NFL.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:49 pm

The worst five teams should all get 1 ball, and have a separate lotto. Then the next five worst teams with the same scheme on their separate lotto. And etc. The reasoning is that the league naturally separates into groups of bad teams of varying degree, with not much difference within groups. So let each individual within each group be ranked within their groups according to lottery.

In addition to the lottery, the worst teams should get some kind of RFA advantage over the better teams, like force some of the RFAs to go to the bad teams. I'd prefer that to the cash welfare system. The owners need incentives to get off of corporate welfare.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:28 pm

I was thinking today, looking at some team stats, what if they did the lottery by point differential for non-playoff teams?

It would eliminate flat out sucking (76ers) and it would force teams to at least build a competitive enough team to compete every night.

For example, as of right now, Minnesota would have the highest odds of getting the 1st round pick since they have the best point differential. On the surface it doesn't seem fair, but it would force teams to want to win as opposed to playing to lose.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:05 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I was thinking today, looking at some team stats, what if they did the lottery by point differential for non-playoff teams?

It would eliminate flat out sucking (76ers) and it would force teams to at least build a competitive enough team to compete every night.

For example, as of right now, Minnesota would have the highest odds of getting the 1st round pick since they have the best point differential. On the surface it doesn't seem fair, but it would force teams to want to win as opposed to playing to lose.


I find the whole "tanking" thing somewhat unrealistic..... at least from the aspect of the players on the floor. A bad team's players aren't "tanking".... they are playing their butts off to get the next contract or to get out of a bad situation. Not sure any player on the Lakers is worried about where we draft..... most of them won't be here to even play with our new draft pick and he will take someone's job at that if they did stick around....

To me it's a "fan's" thing for the most part. Management can dictate who plays I guess but you can't dictate how they play.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:50 pm

I don't think players tank. MDA has done a masterful job mixing up lineups so that no 5 on the floor has chemistry, and no one's in rhythm.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:55 am

Rooscooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I was thinking today, looking at some team stats, what if they did the lottery by point differential for non-playoff teams?

It would eliminate flat out sucking (76ers) and it would force teams to at least build a competitive enough team to compete every night.

For example, as of right now, Minnesota would have the highest odds of getting the 1st round pick since they have the best point differential. On the surface it doesn't seem fair, but it would force teams to want to win as opposed to playing to lose.


I find the whole "tanking" thing somewhat unrealistic..... at least from the aspect of the players on the floor. A bad team's players aren't "tanking".... they are playing their butts off to get the next contract or to get out of a bad situation. Not sure any player on the Lakers is worried about where we draft..... most of them won't be here to even play with our new draft pick and he will take someone's job at that if they did stick around....

To me it's a "fan's" thing for the most part. Management can dictate who plays I guess but you can't dictate how they play.


My point wasn't really about the players. It was more about what Philly did in selling their players for nothing to ensure that they would be as bad as they possibly could. They are trying to field the worst possible roster this year and it's very obvious in what they are doing.

Going with a point differential as a way to decide the draft lottery would eliminate that IMO. The team can still play all out and be bad because the players aren't good enough, but if they keep every game competitive and have a strong point differential, the team gets rewarded at the end.

Point being, no more rewarding teams that purposely fire sale all their best players in an attempt to manipulate the draft order.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:28 am

Doc Brown wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:I was thinking today, looking at some team stats, what if they did the lottery by point differential for non-playoff teams?

It would eliminate flat out sucking (76ers) and it would force teams to at least build a competitive enough team to compete every night.

For example, as of right now, Minnesota would have the highest odds of getting the 1st round pick since they have the best point differential. On the surface it doesn't seem fair, but it would force teams to want to win as opposed to playing to lose.


I find the whole "tanking" thing somewhat unrealistic..... at least from the aspect of the players on the floor. A bad team's players aren't "tanking".... they are playing their butts off to get the next contract or to get out of a bad situation. Not sure any player on the Lakers is worried about where we draft..... most of them won't be here to even play with our new draft pick and he will take someone's job at that if they did stick around....

To me it's a "fan's" thing for the most part. Management can dictate who plays I guess but you can't dictate how they play.


My point wasn't really about the players. It was more about what Philly did in selling their players for nothing to ensure that they would be as bad as they possibly could. They are trying to field the worst possible roster this year and it's very obvious in what they are doing.

Going with a point differential as a way to decide the draft lottery would eliminate that IMO. The team can still play all out and be bad because the players aren't good enough, but if they keep every game competitive and have a strong point differential, the team gets rewarded at the end.

Point being, no more rewarding teams that purposely fire sale all their best players in an attempt to manipulate the draft order.


I don't necessarily disagree, however with attendance down dramatically in Philly there is a cash flow reason for what they did as well that may be more important that a couple slots in the draft.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Finwë on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:21 pm

I like Doc Brown's idea.

I was also thinking how about a lottery where every lotto team has the same % chance of getting the top pick.
That would still kinda work in trying to level the playing field (only bottom teams have access to lotto picks) but it removes the incentive seriously tank.

I think teams would try to play as well as they can, knowing that they still have the same chances of getting a top pick (assuming they miss the playoffs), so they can start building and shaping their teams even before they draft - not trading away any good players / messing around with unbalanced lineups / not trying to improve key things in practice just to suck bad enough to draft top 3.
That way, Wiggins or whoever doesn't end up in a seemingly intentionally terrible (and unready for real, quick, new-talent-coming-in improvement) Philly team, but a team that is figuring out which players can play, how the offensive and defensive systems should be improved, what are the key areas that need to be worked on, etc.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:12 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I was thinking today, looking at some team stats, what if they did the lottery by point differential for non-playoff teams?

It would eliminate flat out sucking (76ers) and it would force teams to at least build a competitive enough team to compete every night.

For example, as of right now, Minnesota would have the highest odds of getting the 1st round pick since they have the best point differential. On the surface it doesn't seem fair, but it would force teams to want to win as opposed to playing to lose.


So since the season is over, I thought it would be interesting to see how our ideas would be play out for the draft.

For me...

1.) Minnesota
2.) Phoenix
3.) Knicks
4.) Denver
5.) New Orleans
6.) Sacramento
7.) Cleveland
8.) Detroit
9.) Boston
10.) Orlando
11.) Lakers
12.) Utah
13.) Bucks
14.) Philly

As a Lakers fan, I'd be pissed.

In general, the tankers are rightfully at the bottom and not rewarded for purposely sucking (Philly last pick). Teams that actually tried to have a successful season get rewarded. It keeps the teams on the brink of the playoffs competitive going into next season.
Last edited by Doc Brown on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:49 pm

^^^^^
The main point of the draft is to give the worst teams in the league a chance to add talent so they can sort of catch up to the better teams. The point differential formula is a huge indicator of what type of team you are so predictably, the teams that barely missed the playoffs would get the highest picks. That just makes the somewhat strong teams stronger and the worst teams even worse. There has to be a BALANCE between helping the bad teams add much needed talent and preventing tanking.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:51 am

What's better for basketball......Deepening the playoff field or giving high draft picks to teams that will more than likely be back there the next year?

When you try to balance 30 teams in the league with talent to all teams you get the stuff you see now. You got the 3-4 teams a year that can win it all, the pretenders that are good, but they aren't winning anything and the bad teams. The talent coming from college these days isn't as good in today's game to think spreading it around evenly is going to make teams better.

There isn't enough talent to go around to all teams to make them better and to be honest the NBA would be better by getting rid of 3-4 teams.

So what if it's not balanced? This would eliminate tanking all together and force teams to actually try to field a competitive team.

Either way you are going to get teams that suck, no system is going to change that, at least with this way you have to go down fighting instead of rolling over like 4 of the teams in the East this year. Teams are going to suck with any sport, I'd rather see the teams that are on the cusp get rewarded and deepen the playoff field, rather than bottom feeders diluting the talent that is already short to begin with.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:45 am

Doc Brown wrote:What's better for basketball......Deepening the playoff field or giving high draft picks to teams that will more than likely be back there the next year?

When you try to balance 30 teams in the league with talent to all teams you get the stuff you see now. You got the 3-4 teams a year that can win it all, the pretenders that are good, but they aren't winning anything and the bad teams. The talent coming from college these days isn't as good in today's game to think spreading it around evenly is going to make teams better.

There isn't enough talent to go around to all teams to make them better and to be honest the NBA would be better by getting rid of 3-4 teams.

So what if it's not balanced? This would eliminate tanking all together and force teams to actually try to field a competitive team.

Either way you are going to get teams that suck, no system is going to change that, at least with this way you have to go down fighting instead of rolling over like 4 of the teams in the East this year. Teams are going to suck with any sport, I'd rather see the teams that are on the cusp get rewarded and deepen the playoff field, rather than bottom feeders diluting the talent that is already short to begin with.


I guess the owners of the small market teams that have no chance at attracting a superstar would love to sign off on your plan. I mean the bad teams would end up in an endless cycle of not being able to replenish their roster with new talent but who cares about fair play or giving everyone a chance to improve. What's important is that the teams that barely miss the playoffs get the best shot at the #1 pick.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Stop playing the victim role for the small market squads.

Cavs - 4 Top 5 draft picks since 2011............Playoff appearances since 2011 = 0
Kings - 5 Top 7 draft picks since 2009...........Playoff appearances since 2009 = 0
Bobcats - 4 Top 10 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 2
Wizards - 4 Top 6 draft picks since 2010........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 1
Pistons - 4 Top 9 draft picks since 2010.........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 0
TWolves - 5 Top 6 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 0

Bobcats and Wizards added a playoff appearance this year because they decided to be FA players and not stick with only building through the draft.

How are the Spurs surviving without any top picks? How did the Pacers get good without any top picks? Portland gets to the playoffs by adding a player (Lillard) that wasn't a top pick. Houston didn't have any top picks, in the playoffs. Toronto gets to the playoffs led by players not drafted as top picks. Hawks get to the playoffs with their top pick out for the season and no top picks. GSW in the playoffs no top 5 picks.

Draft is one way to get better, but the small market teams fail to expand out of that zone into FA and trades because, like you, they are mesmerized at the mystique of getting a top 3 pick and changing their franchise forever.

All the small market and bad teams have to do is build a competitive team that doesn't get mauled every night. That would involve them spending money and actually running a team, drafting right, signing FA.

But keep playing the victim role for them because they are choosing not to get better because the current system rewards them for not trying.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby TheOp on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:59 pm

Wouldnt it suck the one year we actually need the lottery they do away with it.

Time to pull a Chicago Bulls and go 6th to 1st.
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Re: Report: NBA considering doing away with draft lottery

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:48 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Stop playing the victim role for the small market squads.

Cavs - 4 Top 5 draft picks since 2011............Playoff appearances since 2011 = 0
Kings - 5 Top 7 draft picks since 2009...........Playoff appearances since 2009 = 0
Bobcats - 4 Top 10 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 2
Wizards - 4 Top 6 draft picks since 2010........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 1
Pistons - 4 Top 9 draft picks since 2010.........Playoff appearances since 2010 = 0
TWolves - 5 Top 6 draft picks since 2008.......Playoff appearances since 2008 = 0

Bobcats and Wizards added a playoff appearance this year because they decided to be FA players and not stick with only building through the draft.

How are the Spurs surviving without any top picks? How did the Pacers get good without any top picks? Portland gets to the playoffs by adding a player (Lillard) that wasn't a top pick. Houston didn't have any top picks, in the playoffs. Toronto gets to the playoffs led by players not drafted as top picks. Hawks get to the playoffs with their top pick out for the season and no top picks. GSW in the playoffs no top 5 picks.

Draft is one way to get better, but the small market teams fail to expand out of that zone into FA and trades because, like you, they are mesmerized at the mystique of getting a top 3 pick and changing their franchise forever.

All the small market and bad teams have to do is build a competitive team that doesn't get mauled every night. That would involve them spending money and actually running a team, drafting right, signing FA.

But keep playing the victim role for them because they are choosing not to get better because the current system rewards them for not trying.


I just don't see the logic in giving the non-playoff teams with the best point differentials the top picks. You are rewarding a team that just missed the playoffs at getting the best picks while the worst teams continue to get the worst picks. You will also have tanking issues. For example, say a LeBron or Blake is available and you have 5-6 teams on the borders of making or missing the playoffs. And usually, the better the team, the better the point differential. So a team in the 7th or 8th spot might land the #1 pick if they finish 9th cause this team would have the best point differential. You don't think there will be teams that will tank a playoff birth away to get that next possible legend? Let's face it, if you are a 7th or 8th seed, you are good but not good enough to win it all. I will admit that it isn't easy to guarantee a top pick as the more you lose, the wosrt your point differential but like a said, a team at the 7th and 8th seed usually has a higher point differential than the 9th and 10th seed. So if the higher seed decides to lose a few games and can still have the best differential, they just landed Lebron. If not, they still get the 2nd or 3rd. My point is, it's not too hard to calculate how you can position yourself with the top pick.

Like I said, I just don't see the logic in awarding the best teams that didn't make the playoffs the best picks. You are assuming that every bad team is tanking on purpose. Some teams try but just suck and could use a very high pick and their point differential is not due to tanking but lack of talent.
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