Searbs are takeing over the NBA....

Searbs are takeing over the NBA....

Postby Dragan on Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:24 pm

Do you guys have any idea how many Searbs are playing in the NBA ? We can create the entire roster of a good team with tham.

KINGS
Vlade, Peja and Bodiroga ( european MVP last 3 seasons )

CLIPPERS
Jaric

SONICS
Radmanovic and Drodnjak.

NUGGETS
Savovic

JAZZ
Pavlovic

MAVS
Askrabic

KNICKS
Vujanic ( best euro PG ) and Vranjes

PISTONS
Milicic, Rebraca and Kokoskov ( assistent coach )

SUNS
Cabarkapa

WIZARDS
Varda

I am missing out on someone, but its preaty big list as it is. Come to think of it, how many white American players are playing in the NBA ?
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Postby LakersGyrl2003 on Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:42 pm

It just shows how much our league has expanded... We have tons of people from all over the world, and NBA competition is clearly the level they all wanna play at!
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Postby Dragan on Fri Jun 27, 2003 3:30 pm

Do you realise that Searbs are the best non black basketball nation ? Obviously no one can compear with black Americans cose of thear phisical abilities. But when it comes to while guys only, Serbia is way in front of America. So the only thing still keeping America as No 1 basketball nation is athleticism of its black players.
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Postby SterlingBlueSatinGlow on Fri Jun 27, 2003 3:44 pm

Hey Dragan, Thats kind of a racist thing to say bro. Black, White, Chinese, Mexican it don't matter, were all Americans. Or atleast I'd like to think so. The Euro players in the league are great. I'm really glad to see the league expanding the way it has but to say that Serbia is the best "non black" basketball nation is just not right. Beside's, there have been some really great "non black" players. Take Larry Byrd for example or how about the great Jerry West who's image is now the Symbol of the NBA.
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Postby LakersGyrl2003 on Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:27 pm

I dont see it as them bein non black athletes cuz all athlets are great. U can't just say that kinda thing, it does seem a lil' racist. Players play the game, no matter what skin color they are, or what part of the world they're from. Talent can come from just about anyone who's willing to sacrifice for the game. But by sayin that they are the best non black athletes is kind racist, and I don't appriciate that one bit.
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Postby Dragan on Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:09 pm

Some people are so afraid of racism so that thay cant se streith what racism is. Now what is racism ? Thinking that your race is better than others right ? And I sead compleatly the oposite. That my race is inferior so its very obvious that it is not at all racist.

Now what am I saying ? I am saying that black basketball players are far superior than while players. We all can agree on that right ? So, when we dont count black athleths cose thay are so superior and no one can compear with tham, Serbian players are better than American players. I mean, come on. Name me a few good American while players ?

I AM NOT RACIST
MY ALL TIME HERO IS BLACK
SO DO NOT TALK TRASH TO ME
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Postby crucifido on Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:33 pm

If you look at the NBA's history you can trace back the decline of quality basketball in the NBA back to when these Euros first arrived. Bewteen that and expasnion they are slowly bringing the NBA down to strictly a shooting league. Power play and defense are sliding away due to the influx of the Euro style.

It's pitful to watch these "superstar" players from Europe come over and play absolutely no defense whatsoever. It is HALF the game after all. People are too dazzled by flashy plays nowadays to appreciate the little things it takes to win. There's far too many teams and fans that are eager to dump quality players like a Robert Horry in favor of a guy that hit an uncontested 3 and do nothing else.

Seriously, grab your NBA encyclopedia and tell me the last Euro that made an All-Defensive team or has contributed consistently throughout an entire season on the defensive end. Nowitzki - no defense, Kukoc - no defense, Stojakovic - no defense, Turkoglu, Divac, Radmonovic. All shooters and cute around the basket, but no grit and determination ot get it done on both ends.

As a last word, I think the Pistons will be incredibly sorry when they see Carmelo Anthony blossom in a hurry and realize they missed the boat by not picking him. Milicic has at least 3 years before he will make an impact in the NBA. And even then he'll never be able to defend the stronger centers and power forwards in the NBA due to the way he was taught to play ball.
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Postby Leeds on Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:13 pm

Milos Vujanic will be the next to play NBA,2004/05,for New York,great PG.



It's pitful to watch these "superstar" players from Europe come over and play absolutely no defense whatsoever. It is HALF the game after all. People are too dazzled by flashy plays nowadays to appreciate the little things it takes to win. There's far too many teams and fans that are eager to dump quality players like a Robert Horry in favor of a guy that hit an uncontested 3 and do nothing else.


It was pitful to see the USA team with Marion,Pierce,Davis,Miller,Finley being helpless to face a zone defense,n thinking that just with their muscles n their talent as individual players,not as a team,they will win without problems,ohh,wake up,u lost,3 times :man1:
Spain,Serbia n Argentina beat them with a great defense (there are a lot of ways to defend,mainly using inteligence n team work rather than muscles)
There's a lot of individual talent out there but some guys they still think this is an individual game,but if u don't attack n defend as a team,u know,then,[Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] happens,n ur nice american name won't help you.

I would love to see guys like Ginobili,Gasol,Jaric,,Delfino,Oberto playing for LA instead of Horry,Walker,Shaw or Madsen.
Players coming from Europe have a deeper understanding of the game,its tactics n stronger attitude to face challenges.
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Postby crucifido on Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:49 am

If they have such a "deep understanding of the game" where are they come playoff or crunch time on the defensive end when a stop is all that lies between you and a loss? (Once again read what I said in a previous post regarding Euro vs. South American) Ginobli is from Argentina - they play D in South America - the Euros DO NOT PLAY D! Tell me of one that plays it.

The Team USA debacle is of no significance to the NBA or to any of the players that played on that team. It doesn't affect who wins the championship or who gets playing time. It is a separate (and most useless, as the Olympics are as well) entity from the NBA game.

Players coming from Europe have no deeper an understanding than the players from anywhere else in the world. They are flashy ofefnsive players that blind you to their weaknesses. Once again, which Eurpoean player has led their team and/or contributed to a team defensive scheme for a championship run in the last 20 years? Who?

You think they have a deeper understanding because that is what they have led you to believe with their mindless shooting of constant 3's and outside shots while not playing the other half of the game. That kind of play does not constitute a deeper understanding of nything than how to chuck the ball up every time it's passed to you. The problem with most fans nowadays (most not all) is they only see offense, flash and the box score rather than looking at the little things in a season that make the real difference.

If you'd rather see those European guys on the Lakers than what they've had then I am to assume you'd rather see someone raising the 3 point shooting contest trophy in a Laker uniform rather than holding the Larry O'Brien trophy.

The Lakers have come off wining 3 IN A ROW. Has everyone forgotten this so quickly? It baffles me to read all this rambling on how we've just been awful and how these guys all need to go. Stop being so fickle and appreciate what the Lakers have just done for us fans. They've emblazoned themselves into the NBA memory banks as one of the best teams of all time. And how? By playing solid defense and not hoisting up shots to bolster their box scores or ignoring one complete half of the game for the sake of a featured highlight on Sports Center.

O.K. I'm alright now..... (deeeeep breaths - deeeep breaths)
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Postby shaqass on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:17 am

:man10: :man10: :man10:

This topic strike back again, and I loooooove it!!!! we can speak about that forever!

I am European but I used to live in the USA. back there (1999) I really found that in general the american were really arrogant about European hoops. 8/10 of the time I have heard "sucks" with the words "european baketball". Crucifido, your way to downplay the debacle of the "dreamTeam" is another way to say: yeahhh we lost, but who cares, no one cares about those stuff. Look back to 1992. I can tell you that Americans have cared about the dream team at that time. Even you, I am sure. Now that you lose why it is different? (see next post)
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Postby shaqass on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:24 am

I would love to see more respect for the european players. If you want me to say that american are better (because it seems is what you need to chill out :man12: ) ok I tell you: american players (white, black, yellow, green who cares?) ARE better. But please stop speaking about the other part of the world like you did because talent is everywhere and Dirk, Petrovic, Divac, TP, etc are (or were) more than just three point open shooters. (next post)
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Postby shaqass on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:27 am

The debate here about USA vs Europe is incorrect. It is incorrect because we cannot make groups by saying the American, the European, the black, the white, the big etc... come on it is so dangerous to put peole in such group. I would prefere you saying TD is better than Dirk or Divac is better than Oneal (chill out chill out, I am just kidding :man10: ) then we can really speak about making comparaisons.

But because I have the opportunity to speak here I have to ask a question: why is the NBA championship called NBA world champion? Don't you find that funny or arrogant a bit since no such competition exist?

Anyway guys I love your opinions, even if they are not the same as mine (but mine is better :man1: , don't you agree crucifido? :man12: ).

Go Lakers goooooooooo!!!!!!
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Postby shaqass on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:32 am

ahhh and sorry to split my posts but there is a bloody bug that double my sentences when the post is too long :bang:
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Postby Dragan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:49 am

I know a lot of people think that european basketball is now better cose we have beat up US team 3 times. But in all honesty, it is not. We just happend to win cose US team was not well prepeard and well coached. And obviously, cose we played great. European and especialy Serbian coaches do have deep understanding of the game. And that is why most european teams take Serbian coaches when thay wanna do good internationaly. And we are well known for playing maybe the best team deefence in the world witch is why we beat the US team.


You can not identifie all South American or Argentina players over Ginobili. Besides, he didnt even play in Argentina but in Italy and picked up that stile of play over there. And as far as understanding of the game is consearned, do you know a center who is more creative or better passer or has better understanding of the game than Divac ? He is old, slow and can not run or shoot to well but he gets by with that great basketball brain of his. And very few guys actualy defend Shaq better than him.
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Postby Dragan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:56 am

If you`l looking at PF, you can find many, not just european, but Serbian players that are better than what we have. Look at Sonic`s Radmanovic and Drobnjak. Thay are both better than Horry, Slava and Madsen. I am telling you right now, Madsen wouldnt even play in Serbian league with his lack of talent and lack of understanding for the game. I give him credidt for his strenth and hustle, but there is so mutch more to the game than that.


Anyway, to get back to the point: I sead that the only reason America is still the best basketball nation is cose you have African American players that are far superior phisicly and alwayes will be. Look at your white players. Thay suck and would never be eable to beat Serbian national team. Come on. Humor me, name me a few good white American players.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:32 am

Dragan wrote:If you`l looking at PF, you can find many, not just european, but Serbian players that are better than what we have. Look at Sonic`s Radmanovic and Drobnjak. Thay are both better than Horry, Slava and Madsen. I am telling you right now, Madsen wouldnt even play in Serbian league with his lack of talent and lack of understanding for the game. I give him credidt for his strenth and hustle, but there is so mutch more to the game than that.


Anyway, to get back to the point: I sead that the only reason America is still the best basketball nation is cose you have African American players that are far superior phisicly and alwayes will be. Look at your white players. Thay suck and would never be eable to beat Serbian national team. Come on. Humor me, name me a few good white American players.


To get back to your original post and your point...although your point about white americans is what? And who cares. But I'll play your dumbass game, although today there aren't the stars we had in the past ala Larry Bird, Chris Mullin, Mark Price, Kevin Mchale, John Stockton there are still many solid NBA players such as Brent Barry, Raef Lafrentz, Brad Miller, Matt Harpring, Bobby Sura, Troy Murphy, Mike Miller, Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry. And if you look at the recent NBA draft you have some solid players and potential All-Stars in Luke Ridnour, Kirk Hinrich, and Nick Collison. So I hope you are humored.

I never thought as a minority in this still White-dominated USA I would be defending White-america but when someone needs some checkin' I will step up for the good ole US of A.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:46 am

Lets talk strictly basketball:
From 15 players you stated from Serbia. ONE is an all-star (Peja), and to crucifido's point, can't play defense. Another is a fringe All-star (Vlade). I say fringe as he doesn't put up near the numbers as he should. He couldn't carry the team once C-Webb went down. And only made the All-star team two years ago because of injuries to someone else. You call that defense the way Vlade plays Shaq? Vlade is smart, I give him that, but that flopping and crying only gets you so far. Say maybe Game 7 of the WCF.
The rest are bums. Yes, I said it bums. Bums in relative NBA terms of course. The only reason half of them are on the teams now are because they were first-round picks and guaranteed that first contract. Name me one guy who can lead a team deep into the NBA playoffs. Maybe less than half get even offered a second NBA contract.

15 players? So what...they are more than 15 players each from Duke, UNC, Arizona, and UCLA in the league. Should we say that DUKE is taking over the league also? Would you really take a Radmonivic over a Rasheed Wallace or Elton Brand? Jaric over Baron Davis or Gilbert Arenas? Or maybe we say that LA, NY, Detroit, and Chicago are taking over the leagues cuz there at least 15 players each from those cities alone.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:46 am

I'll give you that Drobnak and Radmonvic are better than Slava and Madsen, but WHO ISN'T? But better than Horry? Horry had a bad year but lets not forget what he can do. Shoot the 3, handle the ball, play Post-D, play the Triangle with proficiency, and is an all-around smart player. Robert is now 30+ years old with knees that seem to be older. He may be better served to come off the bench at this point in his career. And don't sell Madsen too short. In the NBA alone he is under talented, but he has a very high basketball IQ and in college was an All-American at Stanford and took his team to a Final-Four berth.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:48 am

And as far as the World Championships and Olympics. We got our [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] handed to us fair and square. The world is getting better and not as intimidated as they were before. But let me just make a couple of points, the players who were on the US team had enough talent to decimate the other teams but were not as schooled in international play as the Euros and South Americans. The international teams have been playing together as units for years under the same system tweaked and optimized for international play. I really doubt these systems would have been too successful in the pre-zone days of the NBA (pre-2002-2003). International play is 95% zone defenses, that's why there is not many, if at all, great individual defenders coming from Europe or SA. The NBA is a totally different game than international ball. Again we were beat fair and square but with one year playing against zone defenses I think the NBA players will make short work of the Olympic and World Championships in the future.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:49 am

And to my final point, YES, the NBA is the World Championship. No NBA championship team in the past 20 years would have lost to any Euro or South American team. 00-02 Lakers, 03 and 99 Spurs, 91-93 and 96-98 Bulls, 94-95 Rockets, 89 - 90 Pistons, 80's Lakers, 80's Celtics. Not a chance. I'll go out on a limb and say no Playoff team from the same era would have lost. The NBA is simply the greatest basketball league in the world, no ifs, ands, or buts. That is why the best International players come here to play. Its really sad that someone like Sabonis could not play here in his prime but he had his chances and his choice was to play in Europe against bums and get old. I'm guessing if he had a second chance he would've came earlier.

Again, I hope you are humored.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:01 am

One more point to make...you state that Black players are the best only because of their physical abilities? So you are saying that a Kobe or a TMac are the best only cuz they can run faster, jump higher, and have more stamina? Then you my friend do not know basketball. Jumping higher doesn't make your three-point shot drop. Running faster doesn't help your assist-to-turnover ratio. Dunking the ball doesn't win MVPs or championships. Playing team offense/defense is about energy and dedication and b-ball IQ. They are better because they are better. SIMPLE as that. They put in the work, have the dedication, got the best coaching, trained harder than everyone else to get where they are. I'll give you your point that generally-speaking (which is dangerous) African-american athletes are more athletic but the US has also the best coaches, training grounds (inner-city), and facilities than the rest of the world.

You should really get away from mind-numbing generalities and stick to the facts, Jack.
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Postby Dragan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:35 pm

Dont bring up guys from the past. Cose we have a few good ones. And if Brent Barry, Raef Lafrentz, Brad Miller, Matt Harpring, Bobby Sura, Troy Murphy, Mike Miller, Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry are the best white guys you have, we most defenetly have a better team. Is any of those guys better than Stojakovic ? Certanly not. And Peja is not even our best player. Bodiroga is.

I was revering to white American players. So compearing Radmanovic with bunch of black guys that will alwayes be better than him is out of order. And so is naming certan Collages that mite have number NBA players. Its simple. Name me white American players that are better than Searbin players. You tryed but could not. And that was my point. Case closed. Look at top 5 white players in the NBA. Is any of tham American ? No.
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Postby Dragan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:40 pm

Even I coached better players than Slava and Madsen. Lakers would be smart to send some scouts over here and draft some Serbian players. There is a lot of great prospects here. Radmanovic is defenetly better than Horry. This guy can do it all. And Drobnjak is not farr of behind. Aldough he is not sutch a good prospect. And thay are all better than Horry. And you know what ? Even dum Laker management knowes it.


And I am not even going to use our championships win over USA as a point. Cose I am inteligent enough to know it was lucky and that your guys were unprpeard and coached badly. And I alsaw agree that NBA Champion is a world champion.


Black players are not only good cose of thear phisical abilities. But thay are the best cose of those phisical abillities. Look at Steve Kerr. He is a fantastic shooter. But unlike Kobe or T mac, he can not get open by him self. Think about it.
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Postby crucifido on Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:55 pm

If Radmanovic can do it all what is waiting for to show his skills. The guy has done nothing but shoot.

Bay Area seems to be the only one who understand what I'm saying. You guys ignore the past as if it has no bearing on the future or the present of the NBA. That is a huge mistake not only in basketball but in life. You can't just disregard the past because you might not remember it, or you might have not been part of it.

The NBA's history has proven that Euro players have done nothing of significance in the NBA. Once one player decides to show a complete game I may change my opinion but until then, the Euro brand of basketball has shwon itself to be an inferior brand of basketball.

And to answer a previous post in this thread by "shaqass" - -
I really didn't give a rat's [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] when the "Dream Team" of '92 beat up on everyone either. It was fun to watch as an exhibiton, but I don't think it indicated anything about the state of basketball in any country. So no, I don't care about them losing or winning the stupid Olympics or the manufactured world basketball championship. It's all a bunch of promotional nonsense in the first place. Another avenue for the NBA to make a buck.
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Postby BayAreaLakerFan on Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:22 pm

Dragan wrote:Dont bring up guys from the past. Cose we have a few good ones.



You dare to compare your scrubs against the best the NBA has ever had to offer? Please do not, you will be embarassed.
Dragan wrote:I was revering to white American players. So compearing Radmanovic with bunch of black guys that will alwayes be better than him is out of order.


I didn't start the comparison of Radmanovic with Horry. I simply stated my argument to the original point. So you just helped my argument out thank you.
Dragan wrote:And so is naming certan Collages that mite have number NBA players.

You were the one who said Serbia is "taking over the NBA". I think we can all safely say now, "THEY ARE NOT".
Dragan wrote:Its simple. Name me white American players that are better than Searbin players. You tryed but could not. And that was my point. Case closed. Look at top 5 white players in the NBA. Is any of tham American ? No.


Your choice of words and your argument is just too offensive to even argue. You win cuz I'm bowing out of that one.
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