Shaq vs. Duncan

Who should be ranked higher in an all time list; Shaq or Duncan?

Shaq
16
64%
Duncan
9
36%
 
Total votes : 25

Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby TIME on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:18 pm

In the last 15 years two big men are clearly far above all others; Shaq and Duncan.

I'm interested in who you have ranked higher in terms of all time players.

Shaq was more dominant in his prime years and has 4 rings.

Duncan has been better much longer than Shaq was and he now has 5 rings.

Who should be higher on the all time great lists?
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby John3:16 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:29 pm

I'm not really a Shaq fan, but I gotta go with him. He should've won more MVPs then he did -- I blame media for that. Head to head it was no contest. I believe Shaq had more of an impact on the game too.

Both had great careers and I'll be the first to say Shaq didn't take care of his body or have the best attitude. But if I'm starting a team, I take Shaq before Duncan every time.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Magic Skywalker on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:34 pm

I've been giving Duncan a lot of respect, but lets not go overboard.

I remember when Dirk won in 2011, some Larry Bird comparison began to sprout.

I've seen a lot of Kobe vs Duncan on twitter lately. And honestly speaking, you can make an argument for both career-wise, but, can you, with a serious face honestly say Tim Duncan is better than Kobe Bryant?

Well, the same argument goes for Shaq. You can make a case by accolades and stuff, but I saw Shaq for many years, many guys here for his whole career (I began watching in 96-97), and I've seen Duncan's whole career. I respect Timmy, his obviously one of the best players of the era of basketball I've watched, he's definitely a legend, and seems to be a great guy, but c'mon, you can't say Duncan is better than Shaq if you've seen them both play. You just can't.

But yeah, longevity wise, Duncan wins. Duncan does have more titles and he's been a key player in each and every one of the five titles. He's legacy is still growing, which is impressive and he's even in a great position right now.

In the end, I've never believed in things like "the GOAT" or on how easily everyone tends to rank some of the greatest players. I do believe there is a select group of players that are very special, the greatest ever, and that group includes Jordan, includes Kobe, includes Magic, and yes, it includes Shaq and Duncan.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:38 pm

Head to Head

Player A - 18-14 W/L........................................ Player B - 14-18 W/L
Minutes - 36................................................... Minutes - 38.4
FG% - 53%...................................................... FG% - 45%
FTA - 9.3 ...................................................... FTA - 8.7
Rebounds - 10.6............................................... Rebounds - 12.1
Assists - 1.7 ................................................... Assists - 2.7
Blocks - 2.7 ....................................................Blocks - 1.4
TOV - 2.8 ......................................................TOV - 2.3
Pts - 21.7...................................................... Pts - 22.0

Spoiler:
Player A = Shaq
Player B = Duncan
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:42 pm

Playoffs Head to Head

Player A - 15-15 W/L...................................Player B - 15-15 W/L
Minutes - 42.............................................Minutes - 38
FG% - 49%................................................FG% - 53%
FTA - 9.7.................................................FTA - 10.5
Rebounds - 13...........................................Rebounds - 12.8
Assists - 3.8.............................................Assists - 2.2
Blocks - 2.4..............................................Blocks - 2.8
TOV - 3.8.................................................TOV - 2.8
Points - 25.6.............................................Points - 22.4

Spoiler:
Player A = Tim Duncan
Player B = Shaq
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby gcclaker on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:47 pm

O'Neal. You don't get that kind of athleticism, size, speed and power in a massive body. I never saw Chamberlain play so he could be The Stilt Redux. Had O'Neal embodied Abdul-Jabbar's dedication to fitness and ice-cold killer mentality along with Russell's intensity, he would have gone down as the greatest big man ever.

In a sense, Duncan has Abdul-Jabbar's traits the way I see it. Efficient and just goes about his business on the floor.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:47 pm

Both are top 10 all time greats on most lists. It comes down to what you prefer. Shaq was obviously more dominant at his peak but Duncan was more consistent and had longevity. If you asked me which player i would take to start my team knowing what i know now, i would take Duncan. The guy won more than 50 games every year sans the strike season. Shaq had a questionable work ethic and did not maximize his talents. But at their peak, no doubt Shaq was more dominant. And if you put a gun to my head, i would rank Duncan slightly higher. He was a force on both ends.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby John3:16 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:53 pm

Doc -- good stats. Thanks for posting.

Phil was 3-1 vs Pop in the playoffs. LA lost to SA in 99 before he arrived. Believe it was a brutal sweep.

Robinson used to guard Shaq until he retired. I'm of the opinion that Robinson was a better defensive player then Duncan, despite Timmy winning numerous Def Player 1st team awards.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:00 pm

Shaq in his prime is the better player but Timmy had the better career because of his work ethic ...
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:47 pm

This is a really tough choice....

Over the course of their careers and even when they both were playing this is how I always summed it all up:

Most Dominant: Shaq
Most Consistent: Duncan

In the end I think Shaq should be ranked higher.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:50 pm

John3:16 wrote:I'm not really a Shaq fan, but I gotta go with him. He should've won more MVPs then he did -- I blame media for that. Head to head it was no contest. I believe Shaq had more of an impact on the game too.

Both had great careers and I'll be the first to say Shaq didn't take care of his body or have the best attitude. But if I'm starting a team, I take Shaq before Duncan every time.


I think when talking about MVPs the reason why both Kobe and Shaq never won more even though they should have was because of each other being on the same team. It's been well documented that Kobe surely should have and would have won more than 1 had he not have had Shaq on his team.

It has been one of the many things Kobe has had to sacrificed in order to win Rings
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby thkthebest on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:54 pm

Shaq should have won MVP the year Iverson won it.

Anyway, this is a tough question. Legacies are such a subjective topic, but I actually think I would choose Duncan. Shaq clearly had the more dominant peak, and nobody would argue that. Duncan was more consistent, and nobody would argue that. But I also want to take into consideration character, work ethic, etc.

If you replace Shaq with Duncan, how many championships do the Lakers win? I think Duncan and Kobe would have stayed together. Their work ethic would set a good example as leaders of the Lakers, and I think they would have been a contender every single year that they were together. That's 15+ years of dominance.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:00 pm

gcclaker wrote:O'Neal. You don't get that kind of athleticism, size, speed and power in a massive body. I never saw Chamberlain play so he could be The Stilt Redux. Had O'Neal embodied Abdul-Jabbar's dedication to fitness and ice-cold killer mentality along with Russell's intensity, he would have gone down as the greatest big man ever.

In a sense, Duncan has Abdul-Jabbar's traits the way I see it. Efficient and just goes about his business on the floor.

I made this same comparison to my friends yesterday. Without getting into individual comparisons, Duncan is the Kareem of this era. Longevity, presence, and professionalism.

But I still take O'Neal to start a team. I still take O'Neal as the overall better player. Duncan at his best was simply fantastic. O'Neal at his best was utterly unstoppable.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:13 pm

Thanks Doc by the way for those comparison stats for the season and playoffs. It helped lay every out for me and I'm sure others as well.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby LakeShow85 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:40 pm

Shaq without a doubt. He changed the game, which I think is a testament to his dominance.

Domination = Shaq
Consistency and Adaptation = TD
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby John3:16 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Read that article on Vlade Divac. He's talking about flopping against Shaq. Players had no other choice. For as great as he is, no one is flopping against Duncan.

Reporter: "when was the last time you were intimidated on the court?"
Michael Jordan: "first time I saw Shaq."
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Barnstable on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:50 pm

Shaq was a special case. No other player was so freaking big quick and skilled to the point the NBA had to change the rules so the rest of the league could compete. As great as Tim is (and he is the best PF ever IMO) he wasn't the focal point of this Spurs team, and he's never changed the game the way Shaq did.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:13 pm

Interesting.... I think both are overrated in some respects. Shaq was the most dominant for 3.25 quarters then he was rendered moot because of his FT%.

Duncan is such a nice guy and has stayed "clean".... that give him an image that has enhanced his overall value. To me Duncan has been very good but never "great" except for brief stretches. He's a model of consistency kind of like Kareem but never as dominant and never as clutch. That's my biggest issue with Duncan.... he's coughed up some pretty big hair balls in tight situations over the years but he's also played well in some huge games as well.

I'd rank them close to the same level but most likely below most overall. As far as PF go.... I don't put Duncan at the top or even second.

As is always the case with me..... rings are Team Accomplishments and player rankings are individual. So the rings don't play into it with me. How they played and performed under pressure is but not the team results.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:37 pm

John3:16 wrote:Reporter: "when was the last time you were intimidated on the court?"
Michael Jordan: "first time I saw Shaq."


jeez.... I never knew Jordan said that.

End the thread now.... haha
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:56 pm

The notion that Tim was never dominant nor the focal point is simply false. He was a dominant force from the get go. Sure, he relented being "the man" years ago to Parker but i think that's a credit to him and his willingness to adapt. But he didn't win 3 finals MVPs by accident. He was clearly "the man" in their first 3 rings.

He is by far the most under appreciated great of all time. His career speaks for itself, whether that's team or individual accomolishments. If he had just blown his horn more, he would've gotten so much more attention. But he was just coldly efficient and did it with as little flash as possible. His jump shots were flat, so were his fts. The way he drove to the basket looked awkward. He wasn't the most graceful guy out there but the guy simply got it done at the highest level.

I have no problem with anyone picking Shaq. I do have a problem with people saying he was never dominant or was never the focal point, because he clearly was on both accounts.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Barnstable on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:08 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:The notion that Tim was never dominant nor the focal point is simply false. He was a dominant force from the get go. Sure, he relented being "the man" years ago to Parker but i think that's a credit to him and his willingness to adapt. But he didn't win 3 finals MVPs by accident. He was clearly "the man" in their first 3 rings.

He is by far the most under appreciated great of all time. His career speaks for itself, whether that's team or individual accomolishments. If he had just blown his horn more, he would've gotten so much more attention. But he was just coldly efficient and did it with as little flash as possible. His jump shots were flat, so were his fts. The way he drove to the basket looked awkward. He wasn't the most graceful guy out there but the guy simply got it done at the highest level.

I have no problem with anyone picking Shaq. I do have a problem with people saying he was never dominant or was never the focal point, because he clearly was on both accounts.


If you're talking about what I said, you misunderstood. I said he wasn't the focus for "this Spurs team" meaning this year. Not talking about in the past.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:17 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Interesting.... I think both are overrated in some respects. Shaq was the most dominant for 3.25 quarters then he was rendered moot because of his FT%.

Duncan is such a nice guy and has stayed "clean".... that give him an image that has enhanced his overall value. To me Duncan has been very good but never "great" except for brief stretches. He's a model of consistency kind of like Kareem but never as dominant and never as clutch. That's my biggest issue with Duncan.... he's coughed up some pretty big hair balls in tight situations over the years but he's also played well in some huge games as well.

I'd rank them close to the same level but most likely below most overall. As far as PF go.... I don't put Duncan at the top or even second.

As is always the case with me..... rings are Team Accomplishments and player rankings are individual. So the rings don't play into it with me. How they played and performed under pressure is but not the team results.


You don't have Duncan 1st or 2nd on your PF list? Who do you have above him? No PF has accomplished more than him. 2 regular seasons mvps, 3 finals mvps, 5 rings, first team all-nba and first team all-defensive on too many occassions to count. He was dominant on both ends. How can any objective person NOT say he was the greatest PF ever?
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby John3:16 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:26 pm

Rooscooter wrote:As is always the case with me..... rings are Team Accomplishments and player rankings are individual. So the rings don't play into it with me. How they played and performed under pressure is but not the team results.


I don't think rings are the end all be all. But when discussing great players, you have to bring rings into the equation. Clearly Baylor, Malone and Stockton get knocked down a peg for not having rings. Does that make Horry the greatest of the past 40 years? No. He's not great. But a basketball player can impact a game like no one else in any other sport (including QBs and starting pitchers). The difference is a QB isn't on the field half the time and a pitcher only goes every 4 games. A basketball players impact is HUGE on the outcome of the game and if you're the stud, your play goes a LONG way toward a W or an L.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:37 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Interesting.... I think both are overrated in some respects. Shaq was the most dominant for 3.25 quarters then he was rendered moot because of his FT%.

Duncan is such a nice guy and has stayed "clean".... that give him an image that has enhanced his overall value. To me Duncan has been very good but never "great" except for brief stretches. He's a model of consistency kind of like Kareem but never as dominant and never as clutch. That's my biggest issue with Duncan.... he's coughed up some pretty big hair balls in tight situations over the years but he's also played well in some huge games as well.

I'd rank them close to the same level but most likely below most overall. As far as PF go.... I don't put Duncan at the top or even second.

As is always the case with me..... rings are Team Accomplishments and player rankings are individual. So the rings don't play into it with me. How they played and performed under pressure is but not the team results.


You don't have Duncan 1st or 2nd on your PF list? Who do you have above him? No PF has accomplished more than him. 2 regular seasons mvps, 3 finals mvps, 5 rings, first team all-nba and first team all-defensive on too many occassions to count. He was dominant on both ends. How can any objective person NOT say he was the greatest PF ever?


I thought you were ignoring me.

This is basically a bait post and I will ignore it.
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Re: Shaq vs. Duncan

Postby dmaul on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:40 pm

thkthebest wrote:If you replace Shaq with Duncan, how many championships do the Lakers win? I think Duncan and Kobe would have stayed together. Their work ethic would set a good example as leaders of the Lakers, and I think they would have been a contender every single year that they were together. That's 15+ years of dominance.

I agree with this. If you substitute Shaq/Gasol in the period between 1997 and 2014 with Duncan, I think you have at least the same number of championships, more consistency, and less low periods. With Shaq you get the highest of highs in his prime, surrounded by loafing and underachieving before and after those prime years. I think the three playoff series between 2000 and 2002 featured prime Shaq vs prime Duncan. Of course Duncan wasn't there for 2000 but we know the outcome of the other two. But I'd go with Duncan for the longevity and consistency factor not to mention the chemistry with Kobe. Duncan is not as alpha as Shaq. I can imagine he'd gel with Kobe better. Also, I've always thought of Duncan as a center even though the rest of the world thinks of him as a power forward. Even when he played with Robinson it was Duncan who occupied the low post. I think he would have been a good fit for the Triangle, a good fit with Phil Jackson.
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