The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby John3:16 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:18 pm

Weezy wrote:Sorry, no excuse you give can be good enough for me to buy 94 free throws, more than any player in the history of the finals, even guys like MJ and Shaq. I watched that finals as I watch every finals, the Mavs were called for so many phantom fouls it was ridiculous. Wade was great that series, but he also got a lot of help from his buddies in black and white.
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31821
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:26 pm

Wade's free throw disparity in that finals makes Leon Powe's 13 free throws in 15 minutes of play look like patty cake.
Rule of Thumb at ClubLakers - Never encourage people to check your post history.
User avatar
Doc Brown

 
Posts: 19453
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am
Location: Ohio

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:52 pm

Last night with the Heat beating the Lakers, that look Wade gave Kobe was priceless over on the sideline after he hit an extremely difficult 3 with Wade right there in his grill late in the game. It was great recognizing great. Kobe hit it, didn't taunt, just turned and ran back up court and Dwyane just stared at him like, "you mother bleeper...wow!" Too bad it took until the freaking 4th quarter for Kobe to start hitting.
LTLakerFan

 
Posts: 6318
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:04 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Yep. It wasn't Shaq at the line in that series. It was Wade.


You know what happens when you get in the penalty, right? Any foul means you go to the line. Guess whose hands the ball was in almost all the time? So yes, the fouls to Shaq also meant more free throws for Wade. But as I said, the main reason was Wade recklessly attacking the rim.

Weezy wrote:Sorry, no excuse you give can be good enough for me to buy 94 free throws, more than any player in the history of the finals, even guys like MJ and Shaq. I watched that finals as I watch every finals, the Mavs were called for so many phantom fouls it was ridiculous. Wade was great that series, but he also got a lot of help from his buddies in black and white.


Ok, no possible reason, fact or explanation will ever convince you, because you have made up your mind that getting more free throws than Michael Jordan is impossible. Never mind that Wade recklessly attacked more than Jordan, or that the Mavs purposely kept making dumb fouls, you have drawn your conclusion that Wade was handed the finals by the refs. Way to shut down a discussion. I'm sure none of you dismissing Wade's '06 finals performance care enough to watch the video I posted.

If you can't be bothered to re-analyze it, then don't bother to keep talking about it.
Last edited by ccameron on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
ccameron

 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:20 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:Last night with the Heat beating the Lakers, that look Wade gave Kobe was priceless over on the sideline after he hit an extremely difficult 3 with Wade right there in his grill late in the game. It was great recognizing great. Kobe hit it, didn't taunt, just turned and ran back up court and Dwyane just stared at him like, "you mother bleeper...wow!" Too bad it took until the freaking 4th quarter for Kobe to start hitting.


I'll admit those threes from Kobe late in the game were freakin' scary. What was it, four in quick succession? All of them with a hand in his face, quite impressive.

I do remember, however, someone saying that Kobe abuses Wade any time he wants to in the post, and I also remember seeing Wade stuff Kobe's post-up attempt last night :man1: Kobe couldn't get a clean shot off in the first three quarters because he was very well defended by Wade. In fact, on some of those shots in the fourth he was also well defended by Wade or Lebron, but he made them anyway because of his greatness.

By the way, found some advanced stats of Wade's post-up game that I was looking for:

http://hoopchalk.com/2013/01/16/despite ... ive-force/
ccameron

 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:30 pm

ccameron wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Yep. It wasn't Shaq at the line in that series. It was Wade.


You know what happens when you get in the penalty, right? Any foul means you go to the line. Guess whose hands the ball was in almost all the time? So yes, the fouls to Shaq also meant more free throws for Wade. But as I said, the main reason was Wade recklessly attacking the rim.

Weezy wrote:Sorry, no excuse you give can be good enough for me to buy 94 free throws, more than any player in the history of the finals, even guys like MJ and Shaq. I watched that finals as I watch every finals, the Mavs were called for so many phantom fouls it was ridiculous. Wade was great that series, but he also got a lot of help from his buddies in black and white.


Ok, no possible reason, fact or explanation will ever convince you, because you have made up your mind that getting more free throws than Michael Jordan is impossible. Never mind that Wade recklessly attacked more than Jordan, or that the Mavs purposely kept making dumb fouls, you have drawn your conclusion that Wade was handed the finals by the refs. Way to shut down a discussion. I'm sure none of you dismissing Wade's '06 finals performance care enough to watch the video I posted.

If you can't be bothered to re-analyze it, then don't bother to keep talking about it.


Yes, we understand the mechanics of the game.

Have you ever watched one of Kobe's games since 05, where he drives to the basket multiple times with no call, sometimes getting knocked down, sometimes getting hit so hard that he loses the ball, which results in a fast break the other way? The result is that he stops driving to the basket, since it only hurts his team, and resorts to shooting jumpers.

Whether or not his team was in the penalty, Wade drove recklessly to the basket. Why? Because every time it yielded a positive result. The refs called a tickytack foul on his behalf, and he got to the line. Why do you think he sacrificed his body for years driving to the hoop? It pays dividends at the line for him. Why do you think most players don't drive incessantly to the hoop? Because it doesn't pay for them. They don't get the calls.
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
V.V.V.V.V.

 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Hollywood

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:39 am

i've seen the heat fan's go-to footage and remain unimpressed.

wade got unbelievable treatment from the officials, else he'd only have one ring. it's that simple. he got to play by a different set of rules than his opposition in that series. shameful. and futile to defend it. i understand why a heat fan would expend the effort, but as cameron indicated--you're not winning hearts and minds on a neutral forum. probably 80% of non-heat fans think 2006 was fishy and aren't even interested in revisions of history that attempt to alter that viewpoint. i, for one, watched every minute of that series and know what i saw: three games decided in the closing minutes, with one player's ft attempts being the principal storyline.
Last edited by abeer3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
abeer3

 
Posts: 10380
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Maluco Beleza on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:47 am

Wade did a great job on kobe and kb still got shots off but when Lebron guarded kobe late in the game... kobe couldn't even get off a look... he was smothered. got lock'd down by lbj
User avatar
Maluco Beleza

 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:56 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:42 am

D-Wade isn't that bad he's still able to produce.
Image
User avatar
Jazzygirl205

 
Posts: 6339
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:25 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:15 pm

Hmmm...in the 2011 western conference finals against the Thunder, Dirk averaged 12.2 free throw attempts (24, 10, 3, 15, 9). That game where he had 24 free throw attempts, he had 15 field goal attempts. That despite not being an attacker AT ALL. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Wade averages 16.1 free throw attempts (10, 14, 18, 9, 25, 21) in the 2006 finals series while relentlessly attacking, Shaq on his team, and the Mavs employing the strategy of constantly fouling. Yep, seems fishy to me!

I'm wasting my time, but just to show you all how little you are actually looking into this, let's do some deeper analysis here. Compare Dirk's 61 total free throw attempts in that 5 game series against the Thunder in 2011, to his total of 88 total field goal attempts. As a percentage of free throw attempts compared to field goal attempts, thats 69.3%. That is ridiculous for someone who takes a bunch of fadeaway jump shots and hardly ever drives.

Wade in the 2006 series Had a total of 97 free throws in 6 games, compared to his total of 139 field goal attempts. As a percentage of his free throw atempts compared to field goal attempts, that's 69.7%. And then take into account Wade recklessly attacked. And Shaq was on his team. And the Mavs purposely kept employing the strategy of fouling. It was a perfect storm, to be sure. Why in the world does Dirk get a free pass? I'm not suggesting there was anything fishy during the 2011 western conference finals, but this is a blantant, unfair, double standard. If you look at the circumstances, the team strategy, and the style of individual play, Dirk's free throws are a lot more inexplicable.

If I had more time, I am sure I would find more statistics -- look at all time leaders of free throw attemps in a playoff game, you'll see Wade is fifth -- behind Shaq and Jordan, who each had several games with more free throw attemps. Put Shaq on a team with Wade recklessly attacking like never in his career, and what do you think is going to happen?

And by the way, Jordan's '89 playoff run is 7th all time in total free throw attempts in the playoffs (229 free throw attempts compared to Wade's 250 attempts in '06, who is 4th all time) -- and Jordan didn't even go to the finals that year, he did that in three series. He had several games in those playoffs with 28 and 27 free throw attempts -- more than Wade ever attempted in any of his finals appearances. Consider Wade attacks more, and all the other circumstances which I've repeated enough.

Did Wade get a few bad calls? Yes, bad calls happen every game. Did Wade get every call? NO! You think Kobe is the only one who gets hit without getting a call? I can't tell you how many times I've seen Wade get slammed without any foul being called -- including in those finals! If you think that doesn't happen to Wade, there is no point continuing discussion, because you just don't watch him. You're just looking up horrible quality youtube videos that butt-hurt Dallas Internet Trolls post because they can't admit the Mavericks came up short. Sometimes he gets fouls with little contact, sometimes he doesn't get a call when he gets wacked. Enough with the conspiracy theories, it gets old.
Last edited by ccameron on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
ccameron

 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 pm

Maluco Beleza wrote:Wade did a great job on kobe and kb still got shots off but when Lebron guarded kobe late in the game... kobe couldn't even get off a look... he was smothered. got lock'd down by lbj


Well, not to knock on Lebron -- but at least one of those late threes Lebron was supposed to be guarding him, Kobe lost him, and Wade just barely got to him to closeout because he was alone. Wade played excellent D on Kobe for the majority of the first three quarters, when Kobe was struggling. Barkley acts like the heat didn't successfully guard Kobe until Lebron got on him, but the successful guarding of Kobe happened in the first three quarters when Wade was on him. I know I sound like a Wade-fanboy here to point this out (which I admit, I am), but Barkley just gets on my nerves.
ccameron

 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:03 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Wade and LeBron both play pretty good defense on Kobe. I would venture that LeBron did a better job on Kobe in the 4th quarter because 1) Kobe was wearing down in the 4th quarter. He can't guard one of the stars all game and be the leading scorer, at least at his age. 2) LeBron's taller than Kobe by a couple inches.
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
V.V.V.V.V.

 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: Hollywood

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby GoldenChocobo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:17 pm

On the other end, Kobe gets picked off easily, and Wade/James pretty much have free reign to the basket.
User avatar
GoldenChocobo

 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:23 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:41 pm

if dirk got the whistles wade got in the same series, he's got two rings. haslem and posey practically hogtied him, and he shot just over half as many fts as wade. it's not just the sheer amount of crazy calls in his favor; it's the lack of same for the opponent (in the 2011 series in question, durant shot nearly as many fts as dirk, for example).

2006 will always have an asterisk in many fans' books. i know i'll never allow anyone in my presence (virtual or otherwise) to say that wade had an epic series that year without providing the standard rebuttal. imo, that's re-writing history (i realize you don't share the opinion). it's not just dallas trollz, either. it's most sensible followers of the game that were sickened by that display.

btw, we can all thank that series for what we get to watch from james harden these days. it was then that "drawing fouls" became a legitimate nba skill.
abeer3

 
Posts: 10380
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:15 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:04 am

Did Wade get some freebee free throws in the 2006 finals? Of course. But you get rewarded in the nba for attacking the rim and putting the defense in bad positions. Wade constantly attacked the basket in that series.


If we are going to complain about free throw disparity, who can forget when the Lakers got like 25 free thows against Sac in the 4th qtr alone to extend a game 7?
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby John3:16 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:19 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Did Wade get some freebee free throws in the 2006 finals? Of course. But you get rewarded in the nba for attacking the rim and putting the defense in bad positions. Wade constantly attacked the basket in that series.

Kobe doesn't.
If we are going to complain about free throw disparity, who can forget when the Lakers got like 25 free thows against Sac in the 4th qtr alone to extend a game 7?

[/quote]
True. And how about Shaq's foul trouble (BS calls) in game 5 to ensure a 6 and 7.
Image
User avatar
John3:16
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 31821
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am
Location: Anywhere but LD after a loss.

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby 24/23goats on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:14 am

kobe doesnt get the calls anymore cause he looks like he yells at the refs like Will Farrell did in semi pro. I wouldnt give kobe any calls either if he was yelling at me like that. In 2006 wade was a rising superstar, had the reputation of being a good dude, and didnt complain like he does today so he got the benefit on a lot of calls. Im no wade or heat fan..dislike them both, just my take on things
24/23goats

 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:50 am

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby nameant on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:20 am

The average rational NBA fan - "Wade got a lot of BS calls in the Finals"
The average blind Heat fan - "Wade was attacking relentlessly bro"
User avatar
nameant

 
Posts: 25329
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:30 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:32 am

Here's what attacking relentlessly does for someone that couldn't buy a call....

Rule of Thumb at ClubLakers - Never encourage people to check your post history.
User avatar
Doc Brown

 
Posts: 19453
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am
Location: Ohio

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Weezy on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:37 pm

24/23goats wrote:kobe doesnt get the calls anymore cause he looks like he yells at the refs like Will Farrell did in semi pro. I wouldnt give kobe any calls either if he was yelling at me like that. In 2006 wade was a rising superstar, had the reputation of being a good dude, and didnt complain like he does today so he got the benefit on a lot of calls. Im no wade or heat fan..dislike them both, just my take on things


Refs aren't supposed to not make calls because a player is a pain, they aren't supposed to hold grudges or take stuff personal, they're supposed to be robots out there. A foul is a foul, you make the damn call when it's a foul. And please, Wade is, and always has been one of the biggest whiners in the league.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50938
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby purp n gold on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:50 pm

Athletically Wade used to be on the same level as Westbrook

He's not any longer and he's a sore, sore loser about it.
There are two teams that play in the Staples Center:
the LA Lakers and NBA Clippers.
User avatar
purp n gold

 
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:39 am

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby GoldenChocobo on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:28 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Here's what attacking relentlessly does for someone that couldn't buy a call....



People call that "tough defense".
User avatar
GoldenChocobo

 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:23 pm

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby 24/23goats on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:46 pm

Weezy wrote:
24/23goats wrote:kobe doesnt get the calls anymore cause he looks like he yells at the refs like Will Farrell did in semi pro. I wouldnt give kobe any calls either if he was yelling at me like that. In 2006 wade was a rising superstar, had the reputation of being a good dude, and didnt complain like he does today so he got the benefit on a lot of calls. Im no wade or heat fan..dislike them both, just my take on things


Refs aren't supposed to not make calls because a player is a pain, they aren't supposed to hold grudges or take stuff personal, they're supposed to be robots out there. A foul is a foul, you make the damn call when it's a foul. And please, Wade is, and always has been one of the biggest whiners in the league.


in a perfect world, yes, you would be right..but its not and these are human beings with emotions and feelings not robots. I was a ref for little kids soccer and i could tell you that it pissed me the f off when parents were yelling at me like this was the world cup.

for that video above, yea kobe got hacked and shoulda got the call but look at the reaction after. Even though he did get hit thats overreacting. Also that shot shouldnt have even happened cause clark took 2-3 steps when he passed it.
24/23goats

 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:50 am

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Weezy on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:13 pm

It happens to Kobe often, getting hacked with no call, that's part of why he reacts that way, he's probably the most disrespected superstar in the league. Whether or not he doesn't get calls because he complains or he complains because he doesn't get calls is a chicken and the egg scenario. And as for refs being human, of course they are, but they are pros, the best of the best, they get paid well to be robots and call games fairly with no emotion, no grudges, no bias.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50938
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby dmaul on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:05 pm

purp n gold wrote:Athletically Wade used to be on the same level as Westbrook

He's not any longer and he's a sore, sore loser about it.

Absolutely right. He's fading. Can you imagine him being as effective as Kobe is today when Wade is 34?
dmaul

 
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 5:46 pm

PreviousNext

Return to NBA Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.