The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:19 am

Maybe it's because we're Laker fans, but I remember definitely a lot of games where Kobe just takes Wade to the post and abuses him. I remember more of those games than I do Kobe getting abused by Wade. I know they've gone both ways, but I don't remember Kobe getting so frustrated at being dominated by Wade that he resorted to breaking Wade's nose.

Here's the thing though part of the "aura" of Kobe Bryant IS his longevity. It's his never ceasing ability to change who he is so that he stays on top. As he got older and realized he couldn't blow past guys any more, he developed the best post game for a guard in the league, maybe just in the league in general. His footwork became absolutely impeccable. As he realized he couldn't elevate as high as he could before his knee injuries, he developed the ability to "float" across the lane by keeping his knees bent and his legs up. This let him shoot AROUND guys instead of over them. Even this season he recognized the need to continue developing his offense around his limited athleticism so he developed a hook shot that's difficult to predict and therefore defend.

Wade hasn't done this. Besides this season his game has always been the same: attack, attack, attack. Draw fouls, get dunks and layups. He has always leaned on that athleticism beyond his jump shot, beyond devloping footwork, and beyond developing any other real offense. Now this season MIGHT be the one season in which he's changed for the betterment of his body finally. I'll give you that. But outside of that, why do you think his body right now is probably ,pre broken down than Kobe's despite being younger? It's because all he knows is attacking the basket.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:56 am

Iceberg Slim wrote:Pardon me as I yawn just a bit ccameron.

You know what Dwyane Wade is? A 2003 400 horsepower Maserati with 300,000 miles on it. It's still fast, it still looks good, but it's run down, needs an oil change and new wheels. Without Lebron, Wade would have to shoulder Kobe Bryant-like minutes. We both know he couldn't take that. Bron is carrying him. Let's stop with the underrated talk. His position is warranted. He's a super efficient, multi-faceted, athletic freak...who gets hurt all the time. His high's are awesome. His lows are absymal.

P.S. This most underrated superstar in the league (in this season) is Deron Williams.


Sorry, but do not try to sell that Lebron being on Wade's team is boosting Wade individually. As a heat fan it's great to see we have a great team, but it's hard to see how much talent in Wade is not being used. Excuse Wade for not shouldering 40 minutes a game right after surgery when there is no need. At this point he can probably shoulder a lot more, but there is still no need. Stop with the underrated talk? There is no question he is underrated. You and I both know his numbers would a be a lot better if he were on any other team. How can you not agree with that?

Deron Williams is maybe underrated simply because no one talks about him and he's not terrible. But if you look past his average numbers, it's not like there is much more positive to say -- he's also being very inefficient. The only thing to say for him is perhaps he hasn't been 100% healthy, and it's harder for a point guard to get more assists with less talent around him. Wade is more underrated, because put him on the Nets, and there is nothing to suggest he wouldn't be putting up his career numbers, or even higher.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby abeer3 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:17 am

agree with slim. he would be nowhere near as efficient as a #1, and his team would be average to terrible. you know, like they were during much of his prime.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:29 am

Yeah wait a minute... You think Wade would be much better on the Nets?....

Why? What evidence is there of that?
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:31 am

therealdeal wrote:Maybe it's because we're Laker fans, but I remember definitely a lot of games where Kobe just takes Wade to the post and abuses him. I remember more of those games than I do Kobe getting abused by Wade. I know they've gone both ways, but I don't remember Kobe getting so frustrated at being dominated by Wade that he resorted to breaking Wade's nose.

Here's the thing though part of the "aura" of Kobe Bryant IS his longevity. It's his never ceasing ability to change who he is so that he stays on top. As he got older and realized he couldn't blow past guys any more, he developed the best post game for a guard in the league, maybe just in the league in general. His footwork became absolutely impeccable. As he realized he couldn't elevate as high as he could before his knee injuries, he developed the ability to "float" across the lane by keeping his knees bent and his legs up. This let him shoot AROUND guys instead of over them. Even this season he recognized the need to continue developing his offense around his limited athleticism so he developed a hook shot that's difficult to predict and therefore defend.

Wade hasn't done this. Besides this season his game has always been the same: attack, attack, attack. Draw fouls, get dunks and layups. He has always leaned on that athleticism beyond his jump shot, beyond devloping footwork, and beyond developing any other real offense. Now this season MIGHT be the one season in which he's changed for the betterment of his body finally. I'll give you that. But outside of that, why do you think his body right now is probably ,pre broken down than Kobe's despite being younger? It's because all he knows is attacking the basket.


Wade never needed to adjust in the past, it was working fine for him. But I can tell you haven't really been watching him. You are forgetting, or didn't realize, that Wade also developed a very good post game over the past few years. And he did it while he could still blow past guys. His post game is terrific. And last summer he says he's going to get a shooting coach, and just like that, instant improved jumpshot. What makes you think he can't continue to adjust and improve, if up until now there has been no need, and the things he has set his mind to developing, he has been successful at?

Yeah I've watched the Lakers vs. Heat games, all I'm going to say is, as you have acknowledged, that being a Laker fan may have given you selective memory. I'm not going to start arguing Wade abused Kobe more than the other way around and prove my own point, but let's leave it at it's gone both ways.

As a note about Kobe's all NBA defensive first teams -- remember in 2009 when Wade was ranked third in the league for defensive player of the year (behind Lebron James and Dwight Howard), and somehow Kobe managed to get on the nba- first defensive team ahead of Wade? That's just part of the perceived difference based on reputation.

Once and for all, I'm not making any sweeping statements about Wade being better than Kobe. But that the perceived difference isn't all down to individual play, and that Wade has played at Kobe's level (and higher) for the majority of his career. Not questioning Kobe's longevity. But also not ruling out Wade's longevity either. He's adapting, and just because he hasn't been required to take 22 shots a game on this current team doesn't mean his career accomplishments are over. Why you keep wanting to argue against this is beyond me.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:37 am

therealdeal wrote:Yeah wait a minute... You think Wade would be much better on the Nets?....

Why? What evidence is there of that?


Wow, do I have to explain this? Is there anyone else who can answer this for me? I didn't say he would be better, I said his stats would be a lot better. It's the same reason James Harden averaged 16 points a game with the Thunder, and now he averages 26 points a game on the Rockets. His efficiency is no better, he's still the same player, just taking 18 shots a game now.

Wade has been that number one option for almost his entire career, and he has always maintained a very high level of efficiency. What evidence is there that he WOULDN'T have much better stats on a team where he is the number one option?
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:41 am

ccameron wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Yeah wait a minute... You think Wade would be much better on the Nets?....

Why? What evidence is there of that?


Wow, do I have to explain this? Is there anyone else who can answer this for me? I didn't say he would be better, I said his stats would be a lot better. It's the same reason James Harden averaged 16 points a game with the Thunder, and now he averages 26 points a game on the Rockets. His efficiency is no better, he's still the same player, just taking 18 shots a game now.

Wade has been that number one option for almost his entire career, and he has always maintained a very high level of efficiency. What evidence is there that he WOULDN'T have much better stats on a team where he is the number one option?

No need to get testy, calm down. I simply asked for clarification.

The evidence is in who he is NOW. NOW he is not the center of attention and so he's able to be efficient. NOW he has LeBron creating for the team and for him so it allows him to play off the ball more which SHOULD raise your efficiency (see Kobe Bryant 2013). If he were the man again, he'd be forced to take more jumpshots over the opposing team's best defender since that defender wouldn't need to be guarding LeBron. True, Wade was once good enough to be the number 1 on a team and have some nice statistical years, but his teams weren't ever good and he personally can't do it anymore. He can't physically do it anymore, that's why he's taking more jump shots and while those jumpers are falling now, they wouldn't be falling as often if he was the one getting all the attention on him.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Iceberg Slim on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 am

Sorry, but do not try to sell that Lebron being on Wade's team is boosting Wade individually.


Where did I say that Lebron is "boosting Wade indivdually"? Wade was a star in his own right before Lebron, so where would I come off saying that? What I did say was, Lebron is the engine of that team. That's why he is the reigning MVP.

And yes ccameron, Wade's number's would be better without another star on his team. But you're missing my exact point. He can't stay on the floor long enough to stack numbers because his body is breaking down year by year. Think there was a coincidence Wade told Bron to lead the team before going into battle against OKC last year? You think it was his supreme amount of humility that made him do that? Think twice. How about I state the obvious. Lebron James is better, healthier, more efficient, and physically able to shoulder the responsibility opposed to Wade. Coaches knew that. Players knew that. Fans knew that. Wade knew that. Need I remind you of Game 3 in the Eastern Semi's? You know, when he's was held scoreless in the 1st half, scored 5 points and committed 5 turnovers that dropped them to 2-1 against the Pacers? Sure, he scores 41 in game 6. But this speaks to my quote in my last post, big highs and abysmal lows. The guy can't go full throttle every night. And if you saw him do that ccameron, you would see all these efficiency numbers swing month to month.

Lebron James coming to Miami just prolonged his career another 3-5 years probably.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:45 am

abeer3 wrote:agree with slim. he would be nowhere near as efficient as a #1, and his team would be average to terrible. you know, like they were during much of his prime.


You mean with the team that had the worst record in the entire NBA with a 15-67 record when Wade was out most of the season with surgery? And how the next year when Wade was back healthy for the full season he took them to the playoffs with a 46-43 record? Don't tell me east is weak and all that, Wade kept them alive when there was NOBODY else on that team.

And by the way, as I already said, he was always efficient even as the number one option. You guys really haven't been watching him. You all know how great Kobe is because you live in LA. You have not been following Wade. Eventually I can't keep up answering the same things over and over again.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:50 am

therealdeal wrote:
ccameron wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Yeah wait a minute... You think Wade would be much better on the Nets?....

Why? What evidence is there of that?


Wow, do I have to explain this? Is there anyone else who can answer this for me? I didn't say he would be better, I said his stats would be a lot better. It's the same reason James Harden averaged 16 points a game with the Thunder, and now he averages 26 points a game on the Rockets. His efficiency is no better, he's still the same player, just taking 18 shots a game now.

Wade has been that number one option for almost his entire career, and he has always maintained a very high level of efficiency. What evidence is there that he WOULDN'T have much better stats on a team where he is the number one option?

No need to get testy, calm down. I simply asked for clarification.

The evidence is in who he is NOW. NOW he is not the center of attention and so he's able to be efficient. NOW he has LeBron creating for the team and for him so it allows him to play off the ball more which SHOULD raise your efficiency (see Kobe Bryant 2013). If he were the man again, he'd be forced to take more jumpshots over the opposing team's best defender since that defender wouldn't need to be guarding LeBron. True, Wade was once good enough to be the number 1 on a team and have some nice statistical years, but his teams weren't ever good and he personally can't do it anymore. He can't physically do it anymore, that's why he's taking more jump shots and while those jumpers are falling now, they wouldn't be falling as often if he was the one getting all the attention on him.


Yeah sorry about that, don't mean to be testy. But I think you are all concluding that he can't shoulder it just because he doesn't need to, especially coming off surgery. I disagree. But there is no way we can settle that argument.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:01 pm

ccameron wrote:Wade never needed to adjust in the past

Yes he did. That's the entire reason his body is caving in on him. He needed to, he just didn't. So say hello to his demolished knees and banged up shoulders for the next few years as he slowly disintigrates into a good player instead of a great player. [/quote]
ccameron wrote:it was working fine for him. But I can tell you haven't really been watching him. You are forgetting, or didn't realize, that Wade also developed a very good post game over the past few years. And he did it while he could still blow past guys. His post game is terrific.
Terrific? I don't know if you've ever witnessed great post game if you think Wade's is terrific. For instance this season Kobe's post game percentage is 62.9% while Wade's is 47.5%. Wade scores .99 point per possession that way, Kobe scores 1.16. Wade's post game is actually less efficient than his overall field goal percentage.
ccameron wrote:And last summer he says he's going to get a shooting coach, and just like that, instant improved jumpshot. What makes you think he can't continue to adjust and improve, if up until now there has been no need, and the things he has set his mind to developing, he has been successful at?
Again, I gave him credit for his improved jump shooting this season, but where was that years ago? Where was that when it was clear that his style of attacking was costing him his body? He could have probably avoided at least one or two injuries if he simply changed his style of play. That might be harder for you to understand since you haven't watched Kobe Bryant play as much as we have, but you're the one saying they should be comparable. Well here's something that keeps them from being comparable.
ccameron wrote:Yeah I've watched the Lakers vs. Heat games, all I'm going to say is, as you have acknowledged, that being a Laker fan may have given you selective memory. I'm not going to start arguing Wade abused Kobe more than the other way around and prove my own point, but let's leave it at it's gone both ways.
I'm the one who said it went both ways. All I pointed out was that when Kobe wants to abuse Wade he takes him to the post where Wade can't do a damn thing about it. He's simply too small.
ccameron wrote:As a note about Kobe's all NBA defensive first teams -- remember in 2009 when Wade was ranked third in the league for defensive player of the year (behind Lebron James and Dwight Howard), and somehow Kobe managed to get on the nba- first defensive team ahead of Wade? That's just part of the perceived difference based on reputation.
I really think you ought to stop with this accolades arguement because Kobe blows Wade away in every category.

Kobe's reputation as a defender was well earned. His reputation has carried him for probably about 3 years now, but it's not as if he wasn't a great defender for the previous 14 years of his career. He EARNED that reputation and you're seeing it now as he defends some of the young great perimeter defenders even now in his 17th season. The perceived difference that you're trying to manipulate doesn't encompass the entirety of Kobe Bryant's career.
ccameron wrote:Once and for all, I'm not making any sweeping statements about Wade being better than Kobe. But that the perceived difference isn't all down to individual play, and that Wade has played at Kobe's level (and higher) for the majority of his career. Not questioning Kobe's longevity. But also not ruling out Wade's longevity either. He's adapting, and just because he hasn't been required to take 22 shots a game on this current team doesn't mean his career accomplishments are over. Why you keep wanting to argue against this is beyond me.
His ability to adapt is frankly too late. His body is disintegrating and I kow that's hard to hear from a fan, but it happens. He should have adapted a long time ago. Living above the rim when you're 30 years old is too difficult on the body. Hell, Kobe stopped attacking like that when he was LeBron's age. LeBron is of course the exception, but his size gives him that ability. Kobe's smaller and less able to live up there. Wade is even smaller than Kobe is.

Wade's longevity is seriously in question and that's not really debateable. If he continues playing the way he is now, he might stretch out his years, but that doesn't mean he's going to be able to play 14-15 years in the NBA like someone of his caliber should.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:04 pm

Iceberg Slim wrote:
Sorry, but do not try to sell that Lebron being on Wade's team is boosting Wade individually.


Where did I say that Lebron is "boosting Wade indivdually"? Wade was a star in his own right before Lebron, so where would I come off saying that? What I did say was, Lebron is the engine of that team. That's why he is the reigning MVP.

And yes ccameron, Wade's number's would be better without another star on his team. But you're missing my exact point. He can't stay on the floor long enough to stack numbers because his body is breaking down year by year. Think there was a coincidence Wade told Bron to lead the team before going into battle against OKC last year? You think it was his supreme amount of humility that made him do that? Think twice. How about I state the obvious. Lebron James is better, healthier, more efficient, and physically able to shoulder the responsibility opposed to Wade. Coaches knew that. Players knew that. Fans knew that. Wade knew that. Need I remind you of Game 3 in the Eastern Semi's? You know, when he's was held scoreless in the 1st half, scored 5 points and committed 5 turnovers that dropped them to 2-1 against the Pacers? Sure, he scores 41 in game 6. But this speaks to my quote in my last post, big highs and abysmal lows. The guy can't go full throttle every night. And if you saw him do that ccameron, you would see all these efficiency numbers swing month to month.

Lebron James coming to Miami just prolonged his career another 3-5 years probably.


Ok, you didn't say that, sorry for mischaracterizing your argument. But you said, "Without Lebron, Wade would have to shoulder Kobe Bryant-like minutes," as if somehow that doesn't prove my point that Lebron is one of the main reasons his stats are low. Coming off surgery, with or without Lebron on his team, he probably would be putting in less minutes anyway, but like I said, I think you have all concluded too soon that he won't be able to put in a lot of minutes anymore. I don't think you can come to that conclusion yet, not when he is coming off surgery and it's only January.

Last year in the playoffs he he was injured, having put off the knee surgery, as he admitted, for far too long. It was obvious to me, despite the fact that he wasn't saying anything at the time, that he was injured. Yet he didn't miss a game, and played plenty of minutes, with many overtime games, and found ways to be effective. That "abysmal low" came the day he drained his knee, as you know. As I said, I think you've all come to the conclusion too soon that he won't be able to handle star minutes anymore. If an injured Wade who needed surgery in his knee could battle through it and play that many minutes and still be effective, I don't know what makes you think he can't handle that when he has fully recovered.

In the end it just comes down to the fact that you think he CAN'T and WON'T be able to handle a star's minutes anymore, and I think that you are not taking into account that he just doesn't NEED to, while he recovers from his surgery.
Last edited by ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:05 pm

ccameron wrote:Yeah sorry about that, don't mean to be testy. But I think you are all concluding that he can't shoulder it just because he doesn't need to, especially coming off surgery. I disagree. But there is no way we can settle that argument.

No big deal, we get testy about the Lakers. Same thing :man10: It's refreshing actually to have a lively debate about this with someone who isn't just a homer or with someone who is clearly not knowledgeable (as you're both logical and knowledeable).

I honestly don't think he could carry the load to a SUCCESSFUL team right now. Say if LeBron were out, would Wade be able to hold down the fort and still be one of the top 3 teams in the league? I don't think so. But he could certainly do well enough to get them in the playoffs.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:25 pm

Terrific? I don't know if you've ever witnessed great post game if you think Wade's is terrific. For instance this season Kobe's post game percentage is 62.9% while Wade's is 47.5%. Wade scores .99 point per possession that way, Kobe scores 1.16. Wade's post game is actually less efficient than his overall field goal percentage


I don't have access to these stats so I can't argue with you here, only that I've noticed this season he is taking a lot more jumpers and working out of the post less, and seems to me to be focusing on that jumper to try and get better with it. If you have past year's stats on that I would be interested. Never said he had a better post-up game than Kobe, but I'd like to see any other 6"4 guard with a better post-up game.

I really think you ought to stop with this accolades arguement because Kobe blows Wade away in every category.

Kobe's reputation as a defender was well earned. His reputation has carried him for probably about 3 years now, but it's not as if he wasn't a great defender for the previous 14 years of his career. He EARNED that reputation and you're seeing it now as he defends some of the young great perimeter defenders even now in his 17th season. The perceived difference that you're trying to manipulate doesn't encompass the entirety of Kobe Bryant's career.


Never tried to say Wade had more accolades -- my point was the opposite -- that Kobe got more accolades not necessarily because he was better -- and the amount of time where Kobe's reputation carried him happened to be Wade's prime years where he was better, but didn't get the recognition. That's just how it worked out. That's how he's voted third in defensive player in the entire league (not just shooting guards), btu Kobe makes all nba-defensive teams. Not taking anything away from Kobe's accomplishments in the past -- but I'm the one who is saying to look past the accolades.

His ability to adapt is frankly too late. His body is disintegrating and I kow that's hard to hear from a fan, but it happens. He should have adapted a long time ago. Living above the rim when you're 30 years old is too difficult on the body. Hell, Kobe stopped attacking like that when he was LeBron's age. LeBron is of course the exception, but his size gives him that ability. Kobe's smaller and less able to live up there. Wade is even smaller than Kobe is.

Wade's longevity is seriously in question and that's not really debateable. If he continues playing the way he is now, he might stretch out his years, but that doesn't mean he's going to be able to play 14-15 years in the NBA like someone of his caliber should.


Again, I disagree that he isn't going to last, but there is no way to prove this. All I can say is, it doesn't make sense to think he is going to keep rapidly declining based on current injuries, which he has taken care of and is recovering from. Assuming he has recovered fully this season, and he is still healthy in the playoffs, we can make that assessment then.

I gotta get back to work guys, shouldn't be on this forum now. Good talking with you, maybe I'll check back in some other time.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Scnottaken on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:57 pm

ccameron wrote: because put him on the Nets, and there is nothing to suggest he wouldn't be putting up his career numbers, or even higher.

ccameron wrote:Excuse Wade for not shouldering 40 minutes a game right after surgery.

I think you contradicted yourself on that post.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Finwë on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:08 pm

Also to consider, when Kobe was on his 10th season, he was in his prime, and his team was garbage. His prime was pretty much wasted. He had to carry that team all by himself. He put up great individual numbers (got snubbed as the MVP in 06) but didn't get far because of his garbage team, thus not being able to collect accolades. Meanwhile, Wade is playing his 3rd straight season as a part of a super-team, right in the middle of his prime. Each year the team got better, making life easier for him.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby GoldenChocobo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:42 pm

Nice jinx. :man9:
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:31 am

Let me just add that Wade's performance in the 2006 finals was one of the greatest individual performances ever in nba history. In the last 4 games of the finals (in which the Heat won), he averaged 39 ppg and shot over 50%. That was about as close to a single player leading a team to a championship that i can think of.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Weezy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:32 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Let me just add that Wade's performance in the 2006 finals was one of the greatest individual performances ever in nba history. In the last 4 games of the finals (in which the Heat won), he averaged 39 ppg and shot over 50%. That was about as close to a single player leading a team to a championship that i can think of.


94 free throws, 94. That team was also filled with quality vets hungry for a ring.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby shoe on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:35 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Let me just add that Wade's performance in the 2006 finals was one of the greatest individual performances ever in nba history. In the last 4 games of the finals (in which the Heat won), he averaged 39 ppg and shot over 50%. That was about as close to a single player leading a team to a championship that i can think of.


While Wade did play great, the 2006 Finals will always be tainted due to some of the worst officiating of all time.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby 432J on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:25 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Let me just add that Wade's performance in the 2006 finals was one of the greatest individual performances ever in nba history. In the last 4 games of the finals (in which the Heat won), he averaged 39 ppg and shot over 50%. That was about as close to a single player leading a team to a championship that i can think of.

yeah because the officials gave him so many free throws and called the game in favor of the heat
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby ccameron on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Let me just add that Wade's performance in the 2006 finals was one of the greatest individual performances ever in nba history. In the last 4 games of the finals (in which the Heat won), he averaged 39 ppg and shot over 50%. That was about as close to a single player leading a team to a championship that i can think of.


Thank you, Lets go Lakers, I'm glad someone acknowledges this. I didn't come here to say Wade is greater than Kobe all-time, I think that's ridiculous myself, but it's annoying when so many people start denying obvious things. You all have seen Kobe bring your team back from deficits, so you might know something of what it feels like to be down 0-2, and then in game 3 be down by like 15 points with only a few minutes left, and then watch a guy go completely nuts, nonstop, four the rest of the series, coming from behind every night, to will your team to victory. Wade played terrific the whole playoffs, but he played beyond even his own level during those finals, because I can't think of another player who could have done that.

94 free throws, 94. That team was also filled with quality vets hungry for a ring.


As I said earlier in this thread, there is a reason the Heat had so many more free throws: 1) Wade was relentlessly attacking the rim, and 2) the Mavs kept fouling, not just Wade, but especially Shaq, because they wanted him to shoot free throws. That strategy put them in the penalty early almost every quarter, resulting in more free throws for Wade. And the Mavs were taking open jump shots -- good shots, but not making them down the stretch. Not going to get a lot of calls that way.

Also, I'll plug this video again, because I think it's worth watching if you are going to insist on perpetuating the myth that Dwyane Wade was awarded something by the refs. It's an objective coach analyzing game 6, which was probably the most complained about game (along with game 5):

http://www.bballbreakdown.com/2006-nba- ... -the-refs/

They show two things: 1) Of the 5 foul calls complained about, 3 were correct calls, 2 were bad calls in Wade's favor; and 2) Reviewing the whole game closely, there were two instances of no calls where Wade should have drawn the foul. It's hard to catch those moments because there is no whistle drawing attention to it, unless you watch the entire game closely like this coach has. So two fouls went in Wade's favor, and two were missed in Dallas' favor. The mistakes cancelled themselves out, and the refs didn't gift anyone anything. This makes sense -- when you are constantly attacking the rim, the refs are going to be more involved, giving them more opportunity to make mistakes, both ways. This is why people who quote the free throw differential as if that proved something are just repeating what the Dallas Internet Trolls say (who, understandably, do not want to watch that series closely again). And the Miami Internet Trolls are much less active in posting about this.

And it was not just free throws. He shot the ball extremely well and did everything offensively and defensively.

By the way, very entertaining game last night between Lakers and Heat. Kobe almost staged a 1-man comeback with all those three pointers late in the game, with a hand in his face no less. Impressive. As usual, Reggie Miller and Charles Barkley continue their policy of ignoring or dismissing Wade, even after a great performance by Wade last night. And by the way, Chuck thinks Wade's stats for the 3 games prior negate last nights performance, but he obviously is not acknowledging that Wade didn't even play in the fourth quarters of any of those last three games (two blowout wins in that span).

Something I noted relevant to our discussion: while Wade didn't attempt that many jumpshots last night, he reminded me of something else he has developed in the last few seasons: an excellent floater, that allows him to get over big defenders without punishing his body. It's almost impossible to block it. He didn't have that a couple years ago.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby Weezy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:48 pm

Sorry, no excuse you give can be good enough for me to buy 94 free throws, more than any player in the history of the finals, even guys like MJ and Shaq. I watched that finals as I watch every finals, the Mavs were called for so many phantom fouls it was ridiculous. Wade was great that series, but he also got a lot of help from his buddies in black and white.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:01 pm

Yep. It wasn't Shaq at the line in that series. It was Wade.
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Re: The Enigma of Dwyane Wade

Postby abeer3 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:54 pm

2006 finals still make me want to wash myself for a full day. just terrible.
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