Top 20 PFs in the league as of now

Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:53 am

Get it through your heads ... playing on better teams means you should be doing even better than on crappy teams ... not worse ...

Does Kobe's numbers go down because he played with Shaq ... I don't think so ... he's gotten better year after year ...

Does Shaq's numbers go down because he played with Kobe ... nope, again ... he keeps getting better ...

Playing with good players around you means only one thing ... YOU SHOULD GET BETTER ... and in the process, take your team to the championship.

Instead, what does Sheed do?? He gets worse, year after year ... while his team goes from being a contender to a joke.

Put Shareef or Pau on that team, and I'll bet that wouldn't happen.

Rasheed of a few years ago was a top 5 PF in the league ... but the Rasheed of today is a joke ... who barely cracks the top 10. Stop living in the past guys.

END OF STORY ... Good Night.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:01 pm

dude pau wouldnt log 15 min a game in Portland...he is overrated euro trash
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:02 pm

oh and when not if Sheed is traded you'll see how good he is
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Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:23 pm

Sometimes people are so short sighted ...

I'll give you one more example.

Few years back, Portland had Sheed and Jermaine O'neal ... and had to decide which to keep and which to trade ... if you think that Indiana wouldn't have taken Sheed for Dale Davis, uhm ... yeah.

But Portland just couldn't part with it's "Starting" power forward ... the one with so much more "Talent" than O'neal ...

Except ... oops ... within two years, Jermaine's now better than Sheed ... Hmm, go figure.

Now if Portland would have pulled their collective heads out of their hindquarters ... they would have seen that Rasheed's attitude was taking him downhill fast ... and maybe, they would have seen past all that "Talent" and figured out what a real quality player is like.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:34 pm

i see the point you are trying to make and you are incorrect

first off they didnt not decide between the two or else they would not have traded for another PF

second...they traded a young unproven PF for and verteran established PF hoping that would propell them past the Lakers in 01

As you are aware that did not work out as planed

YES indeed it was a stupid trade....but it was an unproven PF for a vet established PF....and it blew up in thier face

IT WAS NOT SHEED vs O'NEIL
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Postby FabFourLakers on Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:43 pm

Kobe's Therapist wrote:Sometimes people are so short sighted ...

I'll give you one more example.

Few years back, Portland had Sheed and Jermaine O'neal ... and had to decide which to keep and which to trade ... if you think that Indiana wouldn't have taken Sheed for Dale Davis, uhm ... yeah.

But Portland just couldn't part with it's "Starting" power forward ... the one with so much more "Talent" than O'neal ...

Except ... oops ... within two years, Jermaine's now better than Sheed ... Hmm, go figure.

Now if Portland would have pulled their collective heads out of their hindquarters ... they would have seen that Rasheed's attitude was taking him downhill fast ... and maybe, they would have seen past all that "Talent" and figured out what a real quality player is like.


you are so full of [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] its not even funny. They werent even CONSIDERING Wallace back then! They traded Jermaine for Jermaine's benefit. Jermaine wanted out in portland cuz he never got a chance!

Pau and Shareef wouldnt do [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] in Portland cuz they are not impact players and cant take over in clutch moments!
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Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:00 pm

I can't believe I have to keep explaining this ...

The point I AM making IS correct.

They DID decide between the two ...

1. Sabonis wasn't able to go the entire game any longer ... he was getting old and worn out.
2. Jermaine HATED backing up the center spot ... but that was where the Blazers could get him more minutes ... since Wallace had the PF spot tied down.
3. So what do you do to fix the problem of having two PF's that both want to play the PF spot? ... that's right, you get rid of one and bring in a PF that's capable and willing to back up the Center position.
4. So the choice WAS ... do we get rid of Sheed and his horrible attitude? ... or do we go ahead and let go of Jermaine, "who if we'd given him a chance, could have been better than Sheed in Portland"???
5. You act like they got D. Davis to back up Sheed ... Uhm, no ... they got him to back up Sabonis.
6. And yes, they could have traded Sheed at the time ... AS I WAS SAYING BEFORE ... if they'd looked at the situation logically, instead of being so sold on Sheed being the PF of the future, which he's not ... he's a druggy head case, with a horrible attitude, no leadership skills, and diminishing talent, they might have made a better choice. GOOD JOB PORTLAND!!

So like I said before ... if you take a step back, maybe you'll see what Portland should have seen years ago ... Sheed will get you no where. While some of the other up and coming young PF's in the league will.

You put Pau or Shareef on the Blazers and who knows what will happen ... but we already know what happened with Sheed there ... say it with me now .... FIZZLE!!
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:50 pm

ok mr Rapist i will explain 1 last time

Portland had no idea that Jermaine would be better than Rasheed here is the prof
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html?nav=page

If you read he never averaged more than 4.5 a game, he was shinny as hell, they had no clue he'd be a All-Star, and at 6'11 210lbs, he was not a capable of playing back up center against SHAQ

so they got someone who could Dale Davis, they sacrificed the future for the present in 01 for a chance at a ring (and failed)

they traded 4.1ppg and 3.3 reb for 10.0 ppg and 9.9 reb and oh 252lbs for 210 lbs (Jermaine now weighs 242 lbs)http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dale_davis/index.html?nav=page

Rasheed neveer entered into the conversation and he has actually been very consistant over the last 4 years
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rasheed_wallace/index.html?nav=page

since you are a numbers guy i thought you'd appriciate this post :man7:
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TOP PF IN THE GAMETODAY

Postby ISSAITTHTCH on Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:57 pm

1) TIM DUNCON - 2 TIME MVP PLAYS AND PLAYS WEL AGAINST SHAQ
2) KEVIN GARRNET = MINN
3) KARAL MALONE = BEST PF TO PLAY THE GAME INTO NOW.
4) Rasheed Wallace= UNDERRATED
5) Kenyon Martin= THE FUTURE OF THE LEAGUE.

THIS IS MY LIST OF TOP FIVE PF IN THE GAME TODAY..

bEN WALLACE AND J.ONEAL ARE CENTER NOT PF.

CHRIS WEBBER............ OVERRATED...... CHOKES IN THE FOURTH QUARTER MOST OF HIS SCORING OCCURS DURING THE FIRST HALF AND PLAYS BAD BACK TO THE BASKET.....
FURTHERMORE, THE 3RD BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM. :mad1:
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Re: TOP PF IN THE GAMETODAY

Postby JSM on Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:28 pm

ISSAITTHTCH wrote:
4) Rasheed Wallace= UNDERRATED


Please tell me you typed this wrong and meant to put overrated....please....he is way too overrated as a PF, he has lost all work ethic and has lost some of his skill
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Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:10 pm

Wow Swol ... just when I thought you were getting it ...
Portland had no idea that Jermaine would be better than Rasheed here is the prof


Then you give a page that doesn't have anything to do with PROOF!
Jermaine was a limited time backup ... of course his numbers would be different ... BUT EVERYONE .... and I mean EVERYONE in Portland knew that Jermaine was going to be good ... maybe not how good, but they knew he'd be good ... good enough to rival Rasheed, which he is ... why do you think they drafted him out of HIGH SCHOOL?


If you read he never averaged more than 4.5 a game, he was shinny as hell, they had no clue he'd be a All-Star, and at 6'11 210lbs, he was not a capable of playing back up center against SHAQ

so they got someone who could Dale Davis, they sacrificed the future for the present in 01 for a chance at a ring (and failed)

they traded 4.1ppg and 3.3 reb for 10.0 ppg and 9.9 reb and oh 252lbs for 210 lbs (Jermaine now weighs 242 lbs)


Here I finally thought you had gotten the picture ... since this is what I've been saying ALL ALONG!!
Rasheed neveer entered into the conversation and he has actually been very consistant over the last 4 years


But then you finish off with this ... you get 2 and 2 and somehow that turns into 5 for you.

EXPLANATION: Rasheed DID enter into the equation ... Portland WAS considering trading him at the time ... just like I've been saying all along ... The question was, "do we trade him and keep Jermaine now and go for the future, or keep him and make a run at the present" ... Portland chose wrong, and so is anybody that thinks Rasheed is an All star caliber player any more.

Get with the show people ... the train's movin on. You're stuck back in 00-01.
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Postby Roscoe on Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:11 pm

Rasheed Wallace is as good as Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett, he just doesn't want to be the main guy on the Blazers though. Chris Webber belongs in the Top 5, as much as I don't like him, its easy to see why is the number 3 power forward in the league.

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Chris Webber
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Rasheed Wallace
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Elton Brand
8. Karl Malone
9. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
10. Kenyon Martin
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Re: TOP PF IN THE GAMETODAY

Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:15 pm

ISSAITTHTCH wrote:1) TIM DUNCON - 2 TIME MVP PLAYS AND PLAYS WEL AGAINST SHAQ
2) KEVIN GARRNET = MINN
3) KARAL MALONE = BEST PF TO PLAY THE GAME INTO NOW.
4) Rasheed Wallace= UNDERRATED
5) Kenyon Martin= THE FUTURE OF THE LEAGUE.

THIS IS MY LIST OF TOP FIVE PF IN THE GAME TODAY..

bEN WALLACE AND J.ONEAL ARE CENTER NOT PF.

CHRIS WEBBER............ OVERRATED...... CHOKES IN THE FOURTH QUARTER MOST OF HIS SCORING OCCURS DURING THE FIRST HALF AND PLAYS BAD BACK TO THE BASKET.....
FURTHERMORE, THE 3RD BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM. :mad1:


1. No Dirk Nowitzki?
2. Karl Malone 3rd, ahead of Nowitzki and Webber?
3. Rasheed = UNDERRATED?!?! (you're joking right?)
4. J. Oneal is a PF ... and has always been a PF ... (See Brad Miller for reference)
5. Webber, third best on his team? ... after who?
6. Kenyon Martin at FIFTH?! - He's got potential, but let's have him show it before we give him credit for it.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:21 pm

no Rasheed was an Untouchable back then....

They not only traded Jermaine but also Brian Grant for Shawn Kemp

that was a rought summer for the JB's

they have never cared about have more than 1 calaber player at any position, they thought that Dale could put them over the top, so they gave up a young up and comer to get DD

now they look back at it like D-Day (oooops)

they thought that DD at 252 would match up better with Shaq..... at that time everyone was tryin to match up the Shaq

they were tryin to win in 2001 and DD and Rasheed gave them a better chance at that....but no dice
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Postby Kobe's Therapist on Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:29 pm

Rasheed was NOT untouchable ... Portland DID consider trading him ...

Rasheed only BECAME untouchable after they emptied out all their other PF candidates ...

A mistake by Portland. As I've said all along.
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Postby SWOL on Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:19 pm

i disagree.....you'd have to show me when they considered trading Wallace before 2002....there was some talks after 02 that they might give him up...before that i never heard anything of the sort
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Postby FabFourLakers on Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:42 pm

Kobe's Therapist wrote:Rasheed was NOT untouchable ... Portland DID consider trading him ...

Rasheed only BECAME untouchable after they emptied out all their other PF candidates ...

A mistake by Portland. As I've said all along.


Give us some proof of when the blazers CONSIDERED trading wallace!!! And as swolswol said, the blazers ALSO traded brian grant for shawn kemp! And they actually already had Grant bakcin up wallace at the PF position, so thats why O'neal was kind of in a tailspin at the C position! And honestly, NOBODY thot O'neal would be an all star/olympian, not even i did! I thot he'd be GOOD but not that good! Sometimes that happens in the NBA! You get jipped on a trade and u get on with life! Its a gamble any time u trade a young player, cuz u never know where he coulda taken you!

Just face it, Wallace is an IMPACT player! Pau and Shareef are NOT impact players! We all thot the Hawks would playoff contenders when they got Shareef, but they have stayed at the bottom of the eastern conference the past couple of years! How about the blazers? How many CONSECUTIVE playoff appearances do they have now? As long as Rasheed has been there, they have made the playoffs EVERY year! Rasheed has stayed consistent with his scoring, stayin in the 16-19 ppg, and he is the unofficial leader of the blazers! Without Wallace, i dunno if the blazers would make the playoffs.

The blazers have made many mistakes, but trading Wallace back then wouldnt have been a pretty situation. I think if they kept J O'neal, he wouldnt be as good as he is right now if he stayed in portland! If wallace was traded, the blazers wouldnt have made the playoffs! And i still believe Wallace is one of the top PF's in the league !
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Postby Kobe's Therapist on Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:59 am

Blah ... Blah ... Blah ... you keep saying the same old things ... which are just your opinions ...

And if you think I'm gonna go search through 3 year old Blazer articles to find the ones dealing with the Rasheed/J. O'neal situation ... uhm, no.

So, I'll just say this ... if you think the Blazers wouldn't give their right arm ... and a couple ribs as well, to have Jermaine for Rasheed right now, you're loony.

And likewise ... if you think a player that was playing back up PF to Brian Grant the year before, suddenly jumps to "Untouchable" status the next year ... especially with his rotten attitude and the fact that they still had O'neal, you're loonier than loony.
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Postby FabFourLakers on Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:11 pm

Kobe's Therapist wrote:Blah ... Blah ... Blah ... you keep saying the same old things ... which are just your opinions ...

And if you think I'm gonna go search through 3 year old Blazer articles to find the ones dealing with the Rasheed/J. O'neal situation ... uhm, no.

So, I'll just say this ... if you think the Blazers wouldn't give their right arm ... and a couple ribs as well, to have Jermaine for Rasheed right now, you're loony.

And likewise ... if you think a player that was playing back up PF to Brian Grant the year before, suddenly jumps to "Untouchable" status the next year ... especially with his rotten attitude and the fact that they still had O'neal, you're loonier than loony.


Yes u are right about one thing of COURSE the blazers would LIKE to have that trade back, but its not like the pacers would ever let it happen. And brian grant suddenly lost his touch during the playoffs that year when he was starting, and wallace took over and made a name for himself until they got beat by the spurs. And of course u arent gonna go thru 3 year old articles cuz u have no proof u rotten child. Dont think that uve won this debate cuz i can keep goin
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Postby SWOL on Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:14 pm

dude get your facts str8...the year before when Brian Grant started Rasheed started at the 3

the whole point you just made for me....is that nobody knew Jermaine would be that good....of course Portland would give thier right arm for Jermaine, but they wrent sayin that 3 years ago....

he improved...thats my point and you just made it for me thanx
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Postby FabFourLakers on Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:19 pm

swolswol wrote:dude get your facts str8...the year before when Brian Grant started Rasheed started at the 3

the whole point you just made for me....is that nobody knew Jermaine would be that good....of course Portland would give thier right arm for Jermaine, but they wrent sayin that 3 years ago....

he improved...thats my point and you just made it for me thanx


u werent talkin to me right?
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Postby SWOL on Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:48 pm

NO
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Postby Ring It Up on Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:22 pm

How do I know Jesus loves me so much he doesn't want me working the whole weekend?
Exodus 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Don't believe those lies, son! The only lies worth believing are the ones in the Bible! Can I get an amen?
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Postby SWOL on Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:10 pm

wow you have alot of time....however i didnt see anything of Rasheed going to Indiana instead of Jermaine....thanx for the research thou
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Postby Ring It Up on Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:46 pm

It wasnt that hard to find, it took me about 10 mins to find those. I didnt say I agree with the part about him going to Indy. I said I agreed they were trying to move him.
How do I know Jesus loves me so much he doesn't want me working the whole weekend?
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Don't believe those lies, son! The only lies worth believing are the ones in the Bible! Can I get an amen?
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