Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Balance&Options24 on Sat May 11, 2013 7:52 am

.Bulls mock LeBron James for flopping, find fuel in Game 3 conspiracy


CHICAGO – Everything changed on the March night LeBron James had come to the United Center and declared these Chicago Bulls a dirty basketball team. The world's best basketball player insisted that Chicago's hard fouls were "not basketball plays," that the Bulls had crossed into troubling territory.
Of course, the Bulls believed James had used his bully pulpit to influence the way the NBA officiated him. James' greatness promised a closer inspection out of the league and its officials, a strategic understanding that the world would judge harshly the way these Bulls imposed physicality on the four-time Most Valuable Player.
When everyone else watched Chicago's Nazr Mohammed make a run at James, shove him tumbling onto his back on Friday night, the Bulls witnessed something else: confirmation of a conspiracy. Mohammed earned the ejection, and the rest of these Bulls earned the indignation and outrage that they need for public retaliation.
"We're well aware of what's going on," Thibodeau seethed late Friday. "I'm watching how things are going. I watch very closely. What I'm seeing is…
"…We'll adjust accordingly."


Running out of players, running out of time, Thibodeau will never let these Bulls run out of conspiracies to frame in these Eastern Conference semifinals. The Heat beat the Bulls 104-94 in Game 3 and finally took a 2-1 series lead.
No one pitches "we're getting bleeped" better than Thibs, no one better sells it to his players in a neatly wrapped, pretty bow package of damning disgust. His message is unmistakable and his locker room is fully invested in the brainwashing: The NBA wants us to go away, wants us to leave LeBron James undaunted and unharmed on the way to consecutive championship coronations.
"We're not going to get calls," Thibodeau grumbled. "That's reality."
That's the reality in his parallel universe, where Thibs' post-game diatribe likely promises to inspire a substantial fine from the NBA office. For him, it will be money well-invested to counter consecutive defeats where the Bulls lost composure, lost tempers and ultimately lost playoff games.
Here, Thibodeau needs these depleted Bulls to push further and further into a hard-hitting basketball place. The Bulls want the Heat to lose their minds and lose their way. For a moment, Mohammed did get James to retaliate. For a moment, it had worked beautifully on Friday night – until Mohammed trumped James' tech with an ejection.

Before Mohammed was ejected in the second quarter, 40 feet from the basket, he wrapped up James on a fast break. As Mohammed grabbed him, James ripped free of him and whipped the Bulls center to the floor. As the official was whistling the technical foul on James, Mohammad never noticed. Beyond livid, he leaped to his feet and made a run at James, pushing him backward and ultimately onto his butt.
"I do believe it warranted a tech," Mohammed said. "We've had guys jumping on Nate's face, guys backing up Marco Belinelli out of bounds. There's been a lot of plays that didn't get ejections.
"A push shouldn't get an ejection. …It was a cheap shot throwing me down."
Nate Robinson told Yahoo! Sports, "You see LeBron in a lot of commercials, a lot of good acting."

And Thibodeau flatly said, "From my angle, I just saw a guy flop."
Until the final minutes of the fourth quarter, the Heat couldn't free themselves of the Bulls' death grip. The Bulls are relentless in their resolve to hang around, muck up these games and find a way to steal them. They don't have the players to compete with the Heat – only the resourcefulness.
Most of all, Thibodeau needs to create a climate of havoc and hysteria. He keeps telling his players that they have "more than enough" to beat Miami, and somehow they stare at Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich in suits and still believe him.
[Related: Filomena Tobias, fan who flipped off Joakim Noah, has crazy backstory]
Chicago holds pure hatred in its heart for the Heat, and sometimes Miami must grudgingly match it.
"We really dislike each other," Taj Gibson said. "And it shows on the court."
When the two teams walked out for the Game 3 opening tip, something happened that you almost never see in the NBA: no fist bumps, no handshakes, no phony half-hugs. Nothing.
"It was worse than that when LeBron got the MVP," Gibson told Y! Sports. "You didn't see any of us clap."
They don't come to celebrate James' talent, but make him feel the wrath of that suffocating defense, those beat-up bodies unafraid to crash into the Heat. When it was over, the Bulls spoke longingly of a different time in the NBA, a different era, when they would've been allowed to get away with taking a run at LeBron James.
"M.J. would get fouled and he would just keep playing," Gibson told Y! Sports. "That's old-school basketball."
Whatever it used to be, it's something else now. Back on the night Chicago stopped the Heat's 27-game winning streak, James understood these Bulls would ultimately stand between him and his third straight NBA Finals. He understood the conversation needed to be changed, that the examination needed to be thrust upon the devices of these Bulls.

Ever since, Thibodeau and the Bulls are fighting to the impossible fight, fighting the changing times and a changed NBA. No more runs at the world's greatest player, no room for interpretation that the strongest man in basketball could've flopped when pushed back on his heels.
"I'm on my way out of this league," Mohammed said. "And it's his league now."
This was Tom Thibodeau's rage on Friday, the parallel universe where the NBA is conspiring to stop the Bulls and somehow, someway, he's still selling his team on the improbable belief that fate had wronged them. The coach of these Chicago Bulls is running out of players, running of time, and yet he's still selling solidarity of a locker room that believes it can make life a living hell for LeBron James until he's finally disposed of

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--bulls-mock-lebron-james-for-flopping--find-fuel-in-conspiracy-072116737.html

[/url] thibbs and the bulls are just saying what everyone is thinking.
Last edited by Balance&Options24 on Sat May 11, 2013 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Doc Brown on Sat May 11, 2013 8:13 am

Much like the entire season, this series is full of awful officiating.

- Refs falling for flops. Noah goes straight up for a rebound and the refs calls a foul because Bosh fell down. The ref was two feet away from the play on the baseline and had a perfect view.

- How does a guy get thrown out of a game for pushing someone after the whistle, but another guy (Wade) only gets a technical for throwing a ball at a player (Belinelli) after the whistle? What's even more strange is how a 6'8 250 pound person got pushed behind the 3 point line and ended up in the paint. :man3:

- You see guys like Dwight get beat on because they are bigger than everyone else and nothing happens because he's Dwight and he is bigger than everyone. Lebron is in the same mold, but at the slightest contact he's flying across the floor and flopping and the refs just eat it up?


It's even more annoying with CP3. Example being he got poked in the eye in the Memphis series, no foul was called, so he stopped dribbling and started walking with the ball and had a temper tantrum until the refs had to call a foul because the baby was stomping his feet. Then 5 minutes later, CP3 complains and throws a tantrum to the refs and another call goes into the Clips favor because of the cry baby.

The NBA needs to do what the MLB just did and start suspending these refs for awful decisions. That blown Bosh/Noah play cost the Bulls a chance to score and I think the Heat went down the very next play and hit a 3. The refs aren't paid to make the right calls though, they are paid to selectively intervene to alter the flow of the game. (OT but you can always bet on there being a foul call when a TV timeout is lined up at 3 min/6min/9min.)
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby 432J on Sat May 11, 2013 8:51 am

the heat are the NBA's model franchise. most of it has to do with the fact that they have the most marketable player on their team. so it's simply inevitable that they're going to get most of the calls in their favour

it's just pathetic seeing guys like lebron flop out there and having the refs fall for it when the bulls are playing their [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] off, not to mention how beaten up and shorthanded they are. it's just flat out wrong how easy the league is making it for the heat to win a title. it's been like that all season long
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 8:55 am

^^It looked to me like Bron tripped over his own feet on that play.

Physical play is not rewarded in today's game. I don't see a conspiracy.... I see poor officiating and people watching the replays of one incident while not seeing the 4 or 5 uncalled ones before it. Dwight is a good example.... he gets roughed up consistently but he also plays with his elbows up quite a bit. Neither gets called that often so to me there is some level of "equal incompetency".

Wade should have been run last night.... that's a pretty bright line that when crossed gets you tossed.... the rest of the stuff seems like NBA 101 these days.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Doc Brown on Sat May 11, 2013 9:01 am

^^^ My point with D12 was this.....

The play in the Spurs series where 3 guys were hacking him on the arms and Bonner came in and fouled him by giving him a clothesline was only called a regular foul. Nothing more. Lebron gets pushed and somebody gets ejected?

What play was worse? Regardless of it came before or after the whistle it's pretty ridiculous that the more severe play that could actually have injured someone gets called a foul and a push where a guy flops and acts like he got hit by a truck gets an ejection.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat May 11, 2013 9:18 am

The NBA protects Lebron and in turn the Heat. It reminds me of the Boston moving screens against us. They were considered this great defensive team so they got away with a lot of physical play. When our guys did the same it was a foul. The Bulls are the dominant physical team yet they are not afforded the same respect. Something is wrong.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 9:19 am

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ My point with D12 was this.....

The play in the Spurs series where 3 guys were hacking him on the arms and Bonner came in and fouled him by giving him a clothesline was only called a regular foul. Nothing more. Lebron gets pushed and somebody gets ejected?

What play was worse? Regardless of it came before or after the whistle it's pretty ridiculous that the more severe play that could actually have injured someone gets called a foul and a push where a guy flops and acts like he got hit by a truck gets an ejection.



Rules are the difference. Dead ball action that has nothing to do with a play on the floor has always been treated differently and should be. A play in the flow of the game, no matter how rough, is still game action. A shove in the chest is not a basketball play. Not sure how you can compare the two here Doc. Trying to stop a shot that ends in a foul is a basketball play.... when you start crossing that line we get further down the road of having the officials becoming judge and jury out there.

On a dead ball to walk over to a player and make purposeful contact in any manner, much less a two handed shove is a clear violation and a clear one that merits ejection.

Now the Wade ball toss is in that same category and he should have been "run" as well.... that one does need some explaining.

I think you are letting your "hate" get the best of you here.... Chicago is trying to go 89 Detroit on Miami out there.... it's their only hope and Miami is letting it get to them. The officials need to be consistent but if you're jumping to "conspiracy levels" here..... why watch?
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby JGC on Sat May 11, 2013 9:35 am

^ Couldn't agree more with what you said. That play was a much more egregious version IMO of what Jason Terry did to Steve Blake IMO a couple years ago. In fact, I'd expect Mohammed to get suspended for his action, whereas Terry did not.

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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 9:41 am

The question here isn't if Bron flopped or not.... It's a dead ball and Mohammed pushed him. Even if LeBron didn't even move the rules dictate ejection.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Doc Brown on Sat May 11, 2013 9:51 am

Doc Brown wrote:^^^ My point with D12 was this.....

The play in the Spurs series where 3 guys were hacking him on the arms and Bonner came in and fouled him by giving him a clothesline was only called a regular foul. Nothing more. Lebron gets pushed and somebody gets ejected?

What play was worse? Regardless of it came before or after the whistle it's pretty ridiculous that the more severe play that could actually have injured someone gets called a foul and a push where a guy flops and acts like he got hit by a truck gets an ejection.


Rules are the difference. Dead ball action that has nothing to do with a play on the floor has always been treated differently and should be. A play in the flow of the game, no matter how rough, is still game action. A shove in the chest is not a basketball play. Not sure how you can compare the two here Doc. Trying to stop a shot that ends in a foul is a basketball play.... when you start crossing that line we get further down the road of having the officials becoming judge and jury out there.


You took that phrase out of context and ran with it. A foul around the neck is a flagrant foul or ejection, it isn't a basketball play either. I can compare the two because neither of them were basketball plays. I'm comparing two plays that have well defined rules about the repercussions that can happen if those plays occur. Both should end up with similar results, not opposite ends of the spectrum.

On a dead ball to walk over to a player and make purposeful contact in any manner, much less a two handed shove is a clear violation and a clear one that merits ejection.


Where did I say that it didn't? My point was that there are inconsistencies in plays where by the rules someone should get a flagrant/ejection and what they actually call.


I think you are letting your "hate" get the best of you here.... Chicago is trying to go 89 Detroit on Miami out there.... it's their only hope and Miami is letting it get to them. The officials need to be consistent but if you're jumping to "conspiracy levels" here..... why watch?


I'm not hating on anything. I understand the rules and was venting about the inconsistency of those rules in regards to how plays are officiated.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby dj vitus on Sat May 11, 2013 10:22 am

I think his shove warranted an ejection. If LeBron shoved Nazr like that, we'd all be asking for his head on a platter with a side of suspension.

That said, go Bulls. :jam2:
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby JGC on Sat May 11, 2013 10:36 am

Not sure how this can be so complicated. And I'm not convinced there is a clear understanding of the rules at play here.

A foul around the neck is not always considered a flagrant or an ejection. So that assumption is incorrect. There have been a number of plays where people got accidentally hit in the head, poked in the eye or hit in the mouth but no such penalty was awarded because it was considered incidental contact during the course of a normal basketball play. So the idea that all fouls around the neck are not basketball plays, again, is an incorrect one.

Some fouls around the neck are considered flagrant, but they're not all ejections. If the contact is deemed unnecessary then it is a flagrant 1. See Chalmers, Mario versus Noah, Joakim in game 2. That foul was upgraded to a flagrant 1.

There are assumptions at play here that are leading to invalid comparisons. For starters, the justification for comparing your two scenarios, is based on the incorrect assumption that all fouls around the neck are flagrant or ejection worthy and that simply isn't true. I'm not sure if it's the 'hate' per se that might be leading you down the wrong path, but perhaps, the misunderstanding with regards to fouls and the oh so elusive neck.

There are however, definitely inconsistencies in the officiating in general and I think everyone would agree on that. It's just those two scenarios were bad examples, that's all.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat May 11, 2013 12:59 pm

dj vitus wrote:I think his shove warranted an ejection. If LeBron shoved Nazr like that, we'd all be asking for his head on a platter with a side of suspension.

That said, go Bulls. :jam2:



I think your statement says it all..... if Lebron did it we would be calling for his head because he wouldn't have been ejected. That is the issue right there. Consistency. Of course now it has been explained to all of us there should be no more confusion.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby JGC on Sat May 11, 2013 1:19 pm

That isn't true. If Lebron shoved him or anyone like that, he would definitely have been ejected, no doubt about it.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat May 11, 2013 1:38 pm

you know I am obviously wrong. I forgot all the times Lebron has been treated the same as anyone else. Who cares that the majority of people would be shocked if LBJ got ejected for anything. Afterall he was ejected for that llinebacker shoulder he threw in a game this year....... oh wait he didn't.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 4:43 pm

Doc Brown wrote:You took that phrase out of context and ran with it.


Did I?..

Doc Brown wrote:Much like the entire season, this series is full of awful officiating.
- How does a guy get thrown out of a game for pushing someone after the whistle


This is what precipitated my response. Now you say it was a rule and warranted.... so which is it?

I said Wade should have been run.... so what? are you saying one is CONNECTED to the other? What does one event have to do with the other?

When you start "connecting" these things in comparative posts both in this game and then stretching it to how Howard is officiated you seem to be the one "running with it" not me.

Again.... if it's a conspiracy to make sure Miami wins why watch?
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Jellincon on Sat May 11, 2013 5:24 pm

I agree with Puffy and Doc. There's no consistency. Wasn't it just last year that Wade got away with blatantly shoving Hamilton right in front of the official but was not ejected:



The funny thing about it is that both players got a technical. :man3:

Now it makes some more sense as to why Thibodeau is forming conspiracies. How the hell can Wade get away with shoving Hamilton "like that" without getting ejected but Mohammed is thrown out for his act on Lebron?

Look at this cheap shot by Chalmers on Noah:



Once again the ref was RIGHT THERE in plain sight of the play but only called a regular foul on Chalmers? I know the play was upgraded to a flagrant foul after the game but how could there not be a flagrant or even an ejection right when the play occurred? He freaking tried to yank Noah's head off.

I can honestly say I'm confused. Confused as to how Miami can continue to receive less punishment for their dirty play compared to how other teams are treated. Can anyone seriously come up with an explanation for this? If so, I'm all ears.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 5:42 pm

^^The implication is what?.... Miami is favored by the league? If so why upgrade a missed call after the game?....

Other team's fans have for years thought that the Lakers got handed numerous games by the officials.... yet the same people that watch the games here would still say that it we still get jobbed by the officials....

we seem to be turning into them....
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat May 11, 2013 7:21 pm

Good references Jellicon, but I'm with Roos...I'm not buying the conspiracy angle. I simply think that the last game got waayyy out of hand and any notion of that in Game 3 was going to lead to a quick whistle.

Frankly, I don't like when officials are front and center...that to me just indicates a poorly officiated game. I don't like the top dog getting the calls and would much rather root for the underdog in this case. I love Thibs as a coach and this Bulls team's defense is something I hope our Lakers can employ at some point.

But in terms of a conspiracy and a right to passage for the Chosen 1 and his team to get to the Finals...I'm not too eager to sign off on that one.....and believe it or not, I'm a huge conspiracy nut myself.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby Forward Three on Sat May 11, 2013 7:50 pm

The thing about conspiracies, be they in sports, religion, government, or whatever is that the longer they exist the greater the challenge of keeping all of the agents of the conspiracy under wraps becomes. It's the 'little white lie' effect, where eventually, keeping track of multiple small lies becomes more complicated than simply holding the truth. Apply that to more serious or complicated lies and the difficulty of managing such a thing becomes comparable to the difficulty of managing an actual business, only harder in some respects because of the secrecy(and assumed degree of severity for needing a conspiracy in the first place).

When talking about conspiracies, particularly the ones that concern massive organizations comprised of thousands of employees and billions of dollars, it is tempting to say "Well, they have the resources to do it, so why not?" or "There are unanswered questions and unsatisfactory answers, so that means SOMETHING is up!" but reality, thankfully, is a fair bit more sober than that almost always.

So, to that end, I don't buy into the conspiracy talk. Which is not to say I haven't entertained the notion somewhat in a thought experiment sense or even, when I was younger, placed some more weight on it than rationality would dictate, but ultimately, if there was a conspiracy, the lid would have blown off it by now. There are too many people that would have to be involved and it is by no means life or death.


Of course, that does place some awkwardness with the Donaghy thing, as one might be inclined to view that as the whistleblowing and truth-telling and near-inevitable collapse that conspiracies often face, but I think if it were the case that Donaghy was exposing a real conspiracy with deep and multifaceted connections across the league, others would have followed suit and it would have domino'd and brought it all to light and essentially brought down the league(At least to a dark ages for a while), that didn't really happen so it is probably safe to say that his allegations, while they might have been accurate, were not actually conspiratorial.


But I think it is safe to say there is BS in the league, BS that often seems like it is sanctioned or known about, I wouldn't peg it as a "CONSPIRACY" so much as, well, business really, business and humans being human.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby therealdeal on Sat May 11, 2013 8:00 pm

There's no conspiracy against the Bulls or for the Heat, there's just the usual conspiracy of the league selling it's better products.

In this case, Miami WILL get the benefit of the doubt more times than they wont. It just happens. That doesn't mean they're unbeatable though or that they can't lose games. The Bulls are just struggling to find that balance between physicality and fouls. I don't think they'll find it in time.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Sun May 12, 2013 12:24 am

Exactly. Miami and LeBron are the main marketing point this season, so their physical play will be ignored, and their losses lost in the back pages of the paper. Thibs is just galvanizing his team and his fans for the fight ahead.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun May 12, 2013 1:45 am

I like the Bulls and hate the Heat ... I will say this though : Bulls need to be smarter and stop with the useless push offs i.e Noah on Pedobear and Abu Nazr on Lebron ... Noah complains about every call too ... all of this play in favor of Miami , I'm 100% sure .

Bulls start turning this series the same way as Pacers did last season ... talking BS too much and getting physical on the "wrong plays ".

I understand Chicago players hates Miami but they need to play physical D ala Memphis Grizz and keep their composure ... no useless cheap shots .
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun May 12, 2013 7:02 am

No conspiracies here, just turribly officiated game. Especially if Joey Crawford is involved.
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Re: Woj : Bulls claim conspiracy

Postby abeer3 on Sun May 12, 2013 5:04 pm

Rooscooter wrote:The question here isn't if Bron flopped or not.... It's a dead ball and Mohammed pushed him. Even if LeBron didn't even move the rules dictate ejection.


technically, any contact after the whistle is a t...but it's never called that way. this is why the door's always open for conspiracy theorists in the nba. they call it by the book when it suits purposes, and not at other times (watch the 2006 finals for about 1000 examples).

everyone proposes rule changes, but all the nba has ever had to do was enforce the existing rules uniformly. but they refuse. I think they fined Cuban like half a mill a few years back for basically saying what I just said. doth they protest too much?

I think the bulls are right, but thibs making it an issue in the press isn't going to help his team win.
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