OFFICIAL: The refs helped the US/Spain win thread

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:49 am

I created this thread so our members supporting Spain can argue the points of the officiating and the game itself.

Lets keep it in here fellas (and ladies if there are any) so we aren't ruining other threads.

High IQ · by **High IQ** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:16 pm

oh come on, those "travel talks" will never stop until London Olympics :disagree:

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:18 pm

I know I just want all the whinning and crying to be in one thread instead of it infecting several.

KB24 · by **KB24** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:24 pm

The refs made some calls that could go either way...

for example Spain tried to force the americans into offensive fouls and the refs didn't do them the favor as they flopped...

these are calls that can go either way. Spain did play physical and out-rebounded team USA so the us boys had no choice but to get physical with them as well like Howard hitting Gasol in the face...

Spain plays physical tho but they don't play dirty. They played a great game and USA was able to respond at the end. The refs didn't whistle USA to the title...USA led all game, they were the better team in the paint and the better team from long distance as well...

if USA can hit 3s like they did in the finals....nobody can come close. Today Spain was able to play their best game of the last few years and USA didn't play a whole lot of defense so the result was close but USA was never in danger of losing the composure.

I think fans need to stop always questioning every call...these are tough decisions to make without the TV and they don't have time to think about a call.

I have been a referee myself and from first hand..I can tell you its INCREDIBLY tough to make a call, every call, any call...every call is a challenge. I was NEVER 100% sure of any call I made. You simply can't see it, the players are that quick and then when someone goes into a crowded area and flails his arms you can't see if he gets hit or not...period...point blank...I was never 100% sure if I'm right.

and others complaining gets under the refs skins and they are intimidated which leads to even more questionable calls if the ref loses his head.

I remember giving one team a questionable call and then the next time giving the other team the questionable call simply to keep it close with the mistakes and keep it even...but many calls I had to gamble on my decision...but when its said and done...I gave up the idea to become a referee after one season.

All year, I hear how fans cry and whine for calls...sure sometimes it goes right and sometimes you don't get the calls...but isn't that making the game interesting? to talk about this stuff? if every call would be reviewed and corrected, a big chunk of what fans do will go to waste...which is debate over calls and decisions.

just accept it and move on, its not gonna change anyway.

USA travelled, so what? is travell really the factor that should decide the finals? is that really what hurt Spain? Is that why USA won? because they were allowed to travell on some occasions? really the americans gave up their rules and are playing different rules here...they have adjusted and of course they can't change their dribble instincts...it is what it is and the refs know it and are lenient toward the players...it really shouldn't be an issue, its not like USA gained an advantage. On the other hand, the handcheck, the moving screens and stuff like that actually hurt americans.

come on...

GinoDB · by **GinoDB** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:36 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I know I just want all the whinning and crying to be in one thread instead of it infecting several.

if anything, it should just be kept in the spanish speaking section

Murdock · by **Murdock** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:47 pm

KB24@CL wrote:
USA travelled, so what? is travell really the factor that should decide the finals? is that really what hurt Spain? Is that why USA won? because they were allowed to travell on some occasions? really the americans gave up their rules and are playing different rules here...they have adjusted and of course they can't change their dribble instincts...it is what it is and the refs know it and are lenient toward the players...it really shouldn't be an issue, its not like USA gained an advantage.

come on...

i can't agree with you more ... it wasn't travel to the basket so it wasn't that crucial ... and good point on rules ... how difficult for them is shooting 3's man you orient based on that lione ... here in international rules they can't do that ... the ball is different MOLTEN is the [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] ball made ever .. i am from europe so i know what i am talking about ... it is a bit lighter than spalding and the leather is not that soft and panels on the ball are not that marked ... so playing with different ball is quite something too ... and than there is zone and goaltending ... if in NBA was zone allowed not team would stood a chance against US with Howard in the middle ... they would be used to playing like we do here in europe and they would destroy us ... i give US credit for being able to play with our rules ... but again there is one thing better: the game is tougher ... you can play better D ... look at Kobe and others ... this is not possible in the NBA

you made great point RULES ...

and besids that traveling whining from Rubio and other at the end of the game wouldn't change anything ... it was Kobe's time last 8 minutes ... MVP showed why he is the games best closer

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:52 pm

GinoDB wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:I know I just want all the whinning and crying to be in one thread instead of it infecting several.

if anything, it should just be kept in the spanish speaking section

That just cracked me up...

bokeron · by **bokeron** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:31 pm

It should be kept in the spanish section ... if it was only related to spain. You shouldn't be so stubborn about this, as is the us basketball prestige that's affected. You do not need this to win, you should not wan't to even leave the possibility of claims like this. You, amongst all, should ask for not getting any special treatment.

Let me put it like this. Do NBA referees allow hand checking to european players ? Do the put the three point line closer to the basket for european players ? No ? Then why have the FIBA referees to allow rules violations just because, oh, poor D-Wade, he is not used to the FIBA rules. It is ridiculous.

It hasnt been just some times, it has been fully consistent unbalanced reffing.
It's been funny at times, like one moment where the refs called a travelling for an, I guess, argentinian player... but no travelling called against the us team in the whole game. Hilarious.

If they were going to allow travelling to the us team, and is just an example, but chosen because is has been so permanently un-called, then they should have not allowed hand checking to us players, and put the 3 point line back to where they're used, and just for them.

And, about playing phisically... one thing is to play hard, a different thing is to push three players with your hands and shoulders, and get no fault called... and then, on the other side of the court, a simple hand fault gets called. It's been consistently like this. Referees have allowed us players to play harder than what they allowed the other players to do. Each game.
I do recognize this is more subjective than the travelling affair, wich I think is undeniable.

You seem to think that when we protest this situation is because we think we've lost the game because of it. That's not true. I talk about favoring one team among the rest of the world, just because you're the NBA, and we're not.

We do know the USA is the best team. We just ask for playing by the same rules.

P.S. A curiosity. Do you know that the US team does not has to pass the same antidoping test as the rest of the teams ? It's done by NBA rules, by their own doctors, and with their own lists of illegal substances. The rest of the world have to endure a more, way more strict control, surprise analysis, and whatnot.
I mean by stating this only that, even regarding this, you are playing by different rules.

Mo Rings · by **Mo Rings** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:07 pm

Let's see. We invent a game. export it to the world. They change the rules, and expect US to follow them. It seems to me, they should be playing by OUR rules!!!

Weezy · by **Weezy** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:09 pm

I have to laugh at the continued whining about traveling. I don't think international fans know what traveling is if they're asking for traveling on every single play. You can't catch the ball in mid-run, stop, and dribble it before you move again, guys would be falling down all over the place from trying to do what you ask. And lol anti-doping, our ball players are not on steroids. :man10:

I've never seen more sore losers in my life, as SOON as you go down or lose it's 'oh the USA was treated special', give me a break, had Spain hit a few more shots they would have won and you wouldn't say a thing about it.

You act like we don't know the rules of basketball when Spain is the team out there playing like it's soccer, elbowing guys, flopping all over the place, acting to get fouls and playing the refs. I'll end this by saying I have to laugh the hardest at you saying that the US players were allowed to play harder, that's a joke, Marc Gasol and Rudy Fernandez were shoving guys down left and right with no calls, Marc 2 handed Melo in the back for a rebound and NOTHING was called. You lost because the US played better, not because of the refs, the refs kept Spain the game with all the free throws for a while there so you should be thanking them really.

1_Paranoik_6 · by **1_Paranoik_6** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:10 pm

Auto-quote

1_Paranoik_6 wrote:I think that the conversation Spanish fans vs USA fans is stupid... USA won, we (Spain) lost. We should be happy to get 100 points and lose by 11 against the best USA selection of the last decade.

Congratulation again

bokeron · by **bokeron** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:37 pm

One last time, though you may have not lerned to read, I am not saying spain lost because of the refs.

I Do say that the refs have applied different rules to the "nba team" than what they applied to the rest of the teams, and not only spain. If you don't understand that, it's not my problem.

International fans ( that is, not US fans, I suppose) ... know what travelling is, by NBA rules, and by FIBA rules. It seems to me you are the ones who only know NBA rules.
Olympic Games are played with FIBA rules. US invented basketball. So what. That doesnt allow you to break the rules applied. In this case, FIBA rules.

I wont try anymore, if you're so stupidly stubborn to not understand that the only thing I "ask" is to play by the same rules, be it NBA or FIBA, then there's no point in tryin' to educate you.

Enjoy your blindness.

bystander · by **bystander** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:56 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9AXviGvr6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNOc8tiLqw

:bang:

puffyusaf#2 · by **puffyusaf#2** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:10 pm

bokeron wrote:One last time, though you may have not lerned to read, I am not saying spain lost because of the refs.

I Do say that the refs have applied different rules to the "nba team" than what they applied to the rest of the teams, and not only spain. If you don't understand that, it's not my problem.

International fans ( that is, not US fans, I suppose) ... know what travelling is, by NBA rules, and by FIBA rules. It seems to me you are the ones who only know NBA rules.
Olympic Games are played with FIBA rules. US invented basketball. So what. That doesnt allow you to break the rules applied. In this case, FIBA rules.

I wont try anymore, if you're so stupidly stubborn to not understand that the only thing I "ask" is to play by the same rules, be it NBA or FIBA, then there's no point in tryin' to educate you.

Enjoy your blindness.

So since your point isn't being taken seriously becuase you then result to attacking people. I see most (well actually all) the spanish fans ignored the post I posted about all the stuff Spain got away with but who cares about that. Right? Let me just whine about oh "traveling" all of a sudden. Where were the complaints in the first game? Again, I ask why aren't any of you pointing out Marc Gasol 50 fouls that went uncalled?

If by stupidly stubborn you mean ignoring a pack of whiny fans who all of a sudden can't take that there team was on the losing end of a decent game. I know the words Spanish and Suns both start with the same letter but I didn't think it meant the same type of fans.

nameant · by **nameant** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:18 pm

Is there seriously a discussion about this? :man10:

Yeah we won b/c a couple "missed" traveling calls. Boo hoo.

LDR · by **LDR** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:30 pm

nameant wrote:Is there seriously a discussion about this? Yeah we won b/c a couple "missed" traveling calls. Boo hoo.

kray28 · by **kray28** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:39 pm

The travels that the Spanish fans are asking for pretty ticky tack....I mean, did the US really derive an advantage from those travels?

What's the reality? If the refs had called that, the next time down, the US players would have been extra conscientious about not committing what is basically a procedural type penalty.

They also conveniently ignore the multitude of travels committed by their own players (Navarro and Fernandez in particular) with no call either.

They also ignore the bogus travel that took away a completely legit Kobe basket. In fact the one time I remember a travel actually being called on Spain was when Rubio slipped in the paint.

Weezy · by **Weezy** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:04 pm

bystander wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9AXviGvr6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNOc8tiLqw

You're really reaching with those videos, especially the 2nd one. How did LeBron gain an advantage with the no travel call on the inbound pass? I admit the layup was traveling, but they don't always catch it, but I saw Spain get away with layups just like that, it goes both ways. I'll ask this, how were the refs cheating Spain with the US making a billion 3's and shooting like 70 percent for the game? It's reaching, both teams played pretty much flawless games and one had to come out on top.

georgirion · by **georgirion** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:50 pm

kray28 wrote:They also ignore the bogus travel that took away a completely legit Kobe basket. In fact the one time I remember a travel actually being called on Spain was when Rubio slipped in the paint.

and the reffs call this

flea_lakers · by **flea_lakers** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:21 am

USA complained after the last world championship (WFC) against FIBA rules and the result has been that in this Olimpics FIBA's refs implemented FIBA rules for Spain and the other teams and NBA rules for team USA :man3:

. Is simpler defend a player that he is compelled to booting the ball before moving to one that is not.

According to the FIBA rules all these moves are travelling.
http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/1616219 ... jing08.swf

And the same happens with other FIBA rules.

I believe that the best solution is all teams play with NBA rules. At least we pherhaps could stop american players complaints when USA lose a international competition when If the truth be told, they are playing with advantage actually.

High IQ · by **High IQ** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:28 am

flea_lakers wrote:USA complained after the last world championship (WFC) against FIBA rules and the result has been that in this Olimpics FIBA's refs implemented FIBA rules for Spain and the other teams and NBA rules for team USA . Is simpler defend a player that he is compelled to booting the ball before moving to one that is not.

According to the FIBA rules all these moves are travelling.
http://marcosreygomez.blogspot.com/2008 ... -eeuu.html

And the same happens with other FIBA rules.

I believe that the best solution is all teams play with NBA rules. At least we pherhaps could stop american players complaints when USA lose a international competition when If the truth be told, they are playing with advantage actually.

wtf is you talking about???
I was here on CL since 2004, and I have a very hard time remembering any of CL member blaming officials and rules for team USA losses in Olympics or FIBA championship. The ones who are crying and complaining like little babies are you. Seriously, get over it. You lost, period.

Kou · by **Kou** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:27 am

bystander wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9AXviGvr6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNOc8tiLqw

I still remember how bad that travel was with Lebron against the Wizards, its criminal they didn't see it.

flea_lakers · by **flea_lakers** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:53 am

High IQ wrote:
flea_lakers wrote:USA complained after the last world championship (WFC) against FIBA rules and the result has been that in this Olimpics FIBA's refs implemented FIBA rules for Spain and the other teams and NBA rules for team USA . Is simpler defend a player that he is compelled to booting the ball before moving to one that is not.

According to the FIBA rules all these moves are travelling.
http://marcosreygomez.blogspot.com/2008 ... -eeuu.html

And the same happens with other FIBA rules.

I believe that the best solution is all teams play with NBA rules. At least we pherhaps could stop american players complaints when USA lose a international competition when If the truth be told, they are playing with advantage actually.

wtf is you talking about???
I was here on CL since 2004, and I have a very hard time remembering any of CL member blaming officials and rules for team USA losses in Olympics or FIBA championship. The ones who are crying and complaining like little babies are you. Seriously, get over it. You lost, period.

I ignore what has been said in this forum since I am new here. I speak about I read in a lot of USA media like this

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

leakbrewergator · by **leakbrewergator** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:19 am

bokeron wrote:It should be kept in the spanish section ... if it was only related to spain. You shouldn't be so stubborn about this, as is the us basketball prestige that's affected. You do not need this to win, you should not wan't to even leave the possibility of claims like this. You, amongst all, should ask for not getting any special treatment.

Let me put it like this. Do NBA referees allow hand checking to european players ? Do the put the three point line closer to the basket for european players ? No ? Then why have the FIBA referees to allow rules violations just because, oh, poor D-Wade, he is not used to the FIBA rules. It is ridiculous.

It hasnt been just some times, it has been fully consistent unbalanced reffing.
It's been funny at times, like one moment where the refs called a travelling for an, I guess, argentinian player... but no travelling called against the us team in the whole game. Hilarious.

If they were going to allow travelling to the us team, and is just an example, but chosen because is has been so permanently un-called, then they should have not allowed hand checking to us players, and put the 3 point line back to where they're used, and just for them.

And, about playing phisically... one thing is to play hard, a different thing is to push three players with your hands and shoulders, and get no fault called... and then, on the other side of the court, a simple hand fault gets called. It's been consistently like this. Referees have allowed us players to play harder than what they allowed the other players to do. Each game.
I do recognize this is more subjective than the travelling affair, wich I think is undeniable.

You seem to think that when we protest this situation is because we think we've lost the game because of it. That's not true. I talk about favoring one team among the rest of the world, just because you're the NBA, and we're not.

We do know the USA is the best team. We just ask for playing by the same rules.

P.S. A curiosity. Do you know that the US team does not has to pass the same antidoping test as the rest of the teams ? It's done by NBA rules, by their own doctors, and with their own lists of illegal substances. The rest of the world have to endure a more, way more strict control, surprise analysis, and whatnot.
I mean by stating this only that, even regarding this, you are playing by different rules.

KareemTheGreat33 · by **KareemTheGreat33** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:30 am

Everywhere the World from pee wee football to street bball, officiating is criticized, this is no different..I was rooting for Spain to give a good fight and they did I dunno what else can they do.. they were facing a powerhouse.refs call in the end does not matter unless it is a close game and they decide the outcome.

OFFICIAL: The refs helped the US/Spain win thread

OFFICIAL: The refs helped the US/Spain win thread

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