CL Staff please read this, it's important

CL Staff please read this, it's important

Postby Darth Bynumite on Mon May 12, 2008 12:13 am

Basically someone posted this in a thread. The thread is not relevant, and the topic doesn't concern me, but this poster is 110% correct. I will comment underneath the post.


OT: Honestly, CL is TOO picky on what threads should stay open and what threads should be locked. Lakers discussion has turned into current events via news statements/articles followed by discussion. And obvious topics to be discussed related to player's performance and health followed by discussion consisting of 40 people saying the same thing and 1 argument breaking out between a couple members who quote each other until the comments box explodes.

*yawn

Some other forums I visit, there's more freedom with topics. Honestly it's the internet have some fun with it. Obviously lock the bonehead and/or redundant threads, but sometimes if a thread like " time to step it up" is made ( btw that thread got locked a few min ago, what's wrong with that thread? see what kind of discussion can be created), whatever let it be and SEE what kind of discussion can be created there. I love forums that allow that kind of freedom, because topics within topics are created and it creates a lot of humorous and fun things to talk about. Hell, a good debate that spawns from it is fun too.

Furthermore, sometimes a thread gets locked because it's suppose to go in the gameday thread. WTF, no one wants to go a 1000 page thread, navigate through it, and post there, especially seeing how a lot of people just see it as a game thread and don't even realize the topics of discussion that's going on. So what happens? No one ends up talking about it besides 4-5 comments made in the gameday thread.

Quite frankly, the LD's emphasis on organization has just cut out a lot of oppurtunities for discussion. Posters here are way too conscious of what they're suppose to post and what they're not suppose to post to the point where everyone is hesitant to really speak their minds unless they feel like it's relevant. Even if it's not, let it be. Have people actually left CL because it wasn't organized or something? Doubt it. . LD can be a much funner place, but what can you do. It's just too bland compared to a lot of other forums. Open Court on the other hand is awesome, it's the main reason why I post on CL. Sorry for the rant lol


The above is completely correct. It's very hard to have a discussion here. In fact the only place you can have a half decent discussion is NBA Discussion. It's ruining the message board. I love the community here but I've been searching for a new Lakers Messageboard simply because it's really hard to actually DISCUSS Basketball. What's the point of coming to a Lakers Messageboard if you can't dicuss the Lakers and share opinions?

I've posted at several other messageboards when you could get into several interesting dicussions a day. On this messageboard I may get one or two a WEEK if I try hard, and even then it's hard to keep them going.

I really think you guys, for the good of the message board should allow more threads about player performance to stay open. That's where most of the interesting discussion goes. Most of the threads are news headlines or 60 page threads about a certain player where everyone says the same thing (as the poster said).

Anyway I hope you read this VERY carefully and reply to me (either through this thread or PM).

Thank you.
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Postby akeem on Mon May 12, 2008 1:16 am

Amen. Agree 110%. I bet the moderators don't even read this.
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Postby JSM on Mon May 12, 2008 1:36 am

akeem wrote:Amen. Agree 110%. I bet the moderators don't even read this.

Such a beam of positivity, I love it.
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Postby Darth Bynumite on Mon May 12, 2008 2:12 am

JSM wrote:
akeem wrote:Amen. Agree 110%. I bet the moderators don't even read this.

Such a beam of positivity, I love it.


I know you were responding to Akeem's post, but I'll make it clear that my post was in no shape or form supposed to bash our mods.

The problem is that the subject is a BIG issue. I think if you (CL Staff) could do something about this problem, it would make this forum THAT much more enjoyable for all of us.
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Postby trodgers on Mon May 12, 2008 8:24 am

Thanks for the post. I think there may be some important truths in that post, but there are some flat out untruths:

OT: Honestly, CL is TOO picky on what threads should stay open and what threads should be locked. Lakers discussion has turned into current events via news statements/articles followed by discussion. And obvious topics to be discussed related to player's performance and health followed by discussion consisting of 40 people saying the same thing and 1 argument breaking out between a couple members who quote each other until the comments box explodes.

We do get a lot of the same people fighting in different threads. Quite honestly it's maddening. We've gotten rid of some of the big repeat offenders recently. I'm not sure when this was posted, but I'd appreciate some recent instances of it.


Some other forums I visit, there's more freedom with topics. Honestly it's the internet have some fun with it. Obviously lock the bonehead and/or redundant threads, but sometimes if a thread like " time to step it up" is made ( btw that thread got locked a few min ago, what's wrong with that thread? see what kind of discussion can be created), whatever let it be and SEE what kind of discussion can be created there. I love forums that allow that kind of freedom, because topics within topics are created and it creates a lot of humorous and fun things to talk about. Hell, a good debate that spawns from it is fun too.

I'm fairly confident that this is what all the moderators aim for and that's largely what we get. This comment seems misguided to me. Here are the threads in LD right now. I'll group them together if they're redundant:


Newble
Newble
-I'm okay with not having one thread for each player, to be honest. One is about his contract situation; one is about our needing him.

We'll win
Disappointment
Cheer-up thread
-I'd be okay with locking all of these. Of course people are disappointed. Of course we want a positive mindset. At the very least, these can be condensed into one thread, stating our thoughts about the series. IF that's the case, we can add in the "I like this series" thread to this group.

Random thoughts
-Has no place in LD, imo.

The rest seem to be good threads:
Officials
Kobe off bench
Pau and triangle
Vlad
Gasol
Kobe's back
Farmar
Ariza
Bynum
Turiaf's foul
Greatness
Staples crowd
Mihm/Mbenga
Fisher
Hack-a-Brewer
Series poor play
Physical play
Jazz fan vs. Fisher
Homecourt
Sasha/Cougar
Mbenga

Furthermore, sometimes a thread gets locked because it's suppose to go in the gameday thread. WTF, no one wants to go a 1000 page thread, navigate through it, and post there, especially seeing how a lot of people just see it as a game thread and don't even realize the topics of discussion that's going on. So what happens? No one ends up talking about it besides 4-5 comments made in the gameday thread.

Depends on the situation. Sometimes it's CLEARLY just a gameday issue. Sometimes it's not. Now if we couldn't talk about anything that happens in games, um....we wouldn't have the board here. If it's a systematic problem, it deserves its own thread. If it's something that will affect the longterm look of things, it deserves its own thread.

Quite frankly, the LD's emphasis on organization has just cut out a lot of oppurtunities for discussion. Posters here are way too conscious of what they're suppose to post and what they're not suppose to post to the point where everyone is hesitant to really speak their minds unless they feel like it's relevant. Even if it's not, let it be. Have people actually left CL because it wasn't organized or something? Doubt it. . LD can be a much funner place, but what can you do. It's just too bland compared to a lot of other forums. Open Court on the other hand is awesome, it's the main reason why I post on CL. Sorry for the rant lol

Have people left because of organization? Depends. You'd have to ask them. There were redundant threads all over the place, personal attacks all over the place, and discussion of real issues was lacking. So mods had to do something about that.
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Postby Darth Bynumite on Mon May 12, 2008 12:31 pm

You certainly are doing a better job of it at the moment Trodgers. I hope it continues.

I think a problem is that at the moment, people are probably too scared to start debate because they think it will get closed.

Even if there are more threads around, it is important to understand that the more dicussion, the busier the messageboard.
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Postby Heir on Mon May 12, 2008 12:38 pm

The mods are doing the best they can to keep this site in good shape. It's worked for years, why change now? It's not uncommon for members to disagree with the way they run things on a site, but you have to accept it. If you think a change is necessary, just pm a staff member and listen to what they have to say. Keep in mind that the WAY you say it makes a big difference as well.
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Postby Heir on Mon May 12, 2008 1:05 pm

Darth Bynumite wrote:You certainly are doing a better job of it at the moment Trodgers. I hope it continues.

I think a problem is that at the moment, people are probably too scared to start debate because they think it will get closed.

Even if there are more threads around, it is important to understand that the more dicussion, the busier the messageboard.

I think a problem is that at the moment, people are probably too scared to start debate because they think it will get closed.


Which is why they need to read the rules. I don't think they could be anymore clear, so asking questions doesn't make much sense to me. But of course if they do have questions they can always ask. Regardless, experience is the best teacher. So what if their thread gets locked? At least they'll know whats allowed and what isn't. Having your thread locked isn't the end of the world. I don't see why they'd be "scared" to make a thread out of fear that it will be locked. It's not like having a thread locked means you aren't allowed to make any after that as some sort of punishment.

Even if there are more threads around, it is important to understand that the more dicussion, the busier the messageboard


If that's the case, double and triple threads on the same topic are good then? What if everyone wanted to make their own threads to talk about a game that was just played?
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Postby Chicano on Mon May 12, 2008 1:16 pm

trodgers wrote:

Random thoughts
-Has no place in LD, imo.

What's wrong with that thread? It's harmless. It obviously is anything random having to do with the LAKERS... If people don't know where to put their thoughts, or they don't exactly fit in any of the threads and if they make one on it and people think it's a joke, they can just put it in the random thoughs thread... like perhaps bad example, but say it's something cheesy, light hearted converstation fun like talking about sasha & how he's always fixing his hair & how it annoys some people.. blah blah.. or laugh about it.. it can be put in the random thoughts... it IS laker related.. or if someone wants to ask a random question about laker history & a certain player or so, maybe point out an interesting fact, TONS of things, that is why it is random. Seriously, I truly don't see the problem. Even Weezy, a HIGHLY I mean HIGHLY respected & valued member here once spoke out early on when that thread was created and said there was nothing wrong with it.
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Postby strikemode14 on Mon May 12, 2008 1:34 pm

akeem wrote:Amen. Agree 110%. I bet the moderators don't even read this.


I love how you are able to determine the effectiveness of the mods after a grand total of 58 posts. :man10:

We listen to complaints like this and evaluate what we can do as mods to improve the site.
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Postby Vasashi17 on Mon May 12, 2008 2:24 pm

Way too much going on for me these days where I have nearly no time to even browse the site. However, this thread needed addressing cause it obviously is directed towards the staff and we aren't just going to ignore it.

Firstly, I would understand a member's concern if Laker topics couldn't be discussed here...at all!

But aren't game related topics discussed in the gameday forum? We have an entire forum dedicated to any discussion on the most recent game. That right there means that CL isn't restricting conversation. If we were, then it would most definitely be a problem. However, if there is an entire forum dedicated to discussion on the most recent game and the next upcoming game, what really is the problem?

The problem is, at least for me, threads that begin with an ambiguous title and then literally have one to two lines worth of content in the initial post. For example:

Title: This sucks!!!!!!!
Initial Post: We lost the game and it was all because of _____.


Seriously, I'm not making this up. Over my tenure at CL, I've actually encountered these type of threads and its infuriating, cause it creates more work for the staff. We want to engage in meaningful discussion just like the rest of you, however, we waste our time locking, moving, deleting, etc. after a Laker loss. The running joke amongst the staff is that no one wants to be around after a Laker loss, cause it means more "work" and less "play" (ie engaging in discussion) for us.

As a staff, there isn't anything we wouldn't do for the members cause in reality, you guys make up CL. Some 15 members labeled as staff don't make up CL....its the dense Laker community and frankly, I really want to be a part of that. The staff isn't here to sport their "mod" labels. We come here to discuss Lakers. The staff isn't here to "police". We want to discuss Lakers just like you guys, but that takes responsibility on both sides - the staff and the members.

We'll be less lock-happy, if you guys can actually create meaningful discussion that merits the thread avoiding a lock.

LD has a vent thread. So one liners followed by a myriad of banging head emotions can go there. There is absolutely no reason to create a thread based on those type of posts.

Why? Cause you will have members that don't like the clutter and will come into those threads and post "NB4"s. They'll also post graphics and pics insinuating that the thread is a waste of bandwidth. What normally conspires thereafter, is a couple of members feeling the need for that type of thread to remain open as a medium to release their frustrations. Other members will then counter by posting LD's vent thread link or by mentioning that venting can just as easily be posted in the Gameday forum within that gameday thread. Then one member may go too far, by calling the other an idiot. Then all hell breaks loose and not only do we need to lock up the "clutter" but now we need to hand out citations for rules that were broken. The staff as a whole does not like banning members. So now we gotta decide who merits a suspension....for how long?...who's gonna PM the violator?.....all this transpires cause someone didn't take the time out to post their one line of frustration in the vent thread or the gameday thread. Lets not act like Gameday doesn't receive massive volume. Members know its there and that forum gets tremendous activity during games, so its only fitting that any type of venting thereafter can take place there and you wouldn't be alone, cause there are plenty to release that type of emotion with you.

So what merits an open thread, directly after a game?

Firstly, there is somewhat of a loose quota that the staff has in allowing that certain threads remain open. Normally, there are about 3 threads that discuss the most recent game in particular that remain open for members to let loose in. However, the creator of those threads normally goes beyond just voicing a line's worth of frustration. They try to look at the most recent games played and tie in a pattern or a continued aspect that repeats game after game. Sometimes, the OP will even have stats or some type of media to back up their opinions. For example:

Title: Fisher is the key
Initial Post: Due to foul trouble, Fish had to take a seat early. That led to D. Williams going off..blah..blah..blah...

Here are the stats of both Games 3 and 4 with Fisher off the floor:

Stats Stats Stats

Notice how efficient Deron was when Fish was off.
Then take into account that LA made their runs and came back from double digit deficits when Fish was back on the floor. Tonight wish contributed 10 points in the clutch. During that time Deron only had so and so points.

Compare Games 3 and 4 to Games 1 and 2 and you will notice that it isn't just home court, it had alot to do with Fish being out on the floor.


This is where the responsibility from the members comes into play. If you give us a great reason to allow that post to remain open, even if it is somewhat already being discussed, then the staff will feel like pricks for locking up something that clearly demonstrates alot of time and effort into its creation.

Give us a reason for it to remain open and normally those threads will.

However, if it demonstrates a lack of effort, then it only upsets the staff cause now you are creating tedious work for us and frankly we don't appreciate it.

If a member takes the time to browse the 1st page of the forum to see if a topic isn't already being discussed, then takes additional time to create something worth discussing even if its only specific to the most recent game, then the staff will have a hard time justifying a lock for that thread.

We will definitely be less eager to reach for a lock, if you give us a reason to be.

The responsibility goes both ways. Respect our time and efforts and we will do the same for you.

With that being said, thanks for wasting my time. I'm already pressed for it and instead of browsing other topics and discussions, I wasted all my time responding to this concern. Thanks! :man9:
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Postby Darth Bynumite on Tue May 13, 2008 3:33 am

Vasashi17 wrote:Way too much going on for me these days where I have nearly no time to even browse the site. However, this thread needed addressing cause it obviously is directed towards the staff and we aren't just going to ignore it.


When you say directed towards the staff, this thread is in no way suppose to degrade our moderators. I sincerely appreciate the efforts you put in to keep this site going.

Firstly, I would understand a member's concern if Laker topics couldn't be discussed here...at all!


Sometimes Laker Discussion is just full of News headlines. How are we supposed to discuss things?

But aren't game related topics discussed in the gameday forum? We have an entire forum dedicated to any discussion on the most recent game. That right there means that CL isn't restricting conversation. If we were, then it would most definitely be a problem. However, if there is an entire forum dedicated to discussion on the most recent game and the next upcoming game, what really is the problem?


The problem is that things move so fast in the Gameday forum, it is very hard to actually discuss things. The gameday forum, whilst enjoyable, is mostly full up of guys just cheering/venting or saying what's going on in the game. No real DISCUSSION and DEBATE happens. I completely 100% agree with not having masses of threads with the title " Lamar cost us the game", but some discussion must be allowed.

The problem is, at least for me, threads that begin with an ambiguous title and then literally have one to two lines worth of content in the initial post. For example:

Title: This sucks!!!!!!!
Initial Post: We lost the game and it was all because of _____.


Seriously, I'm not making this up. Over my tenure at CL, I've actually encountered these type of threads and its infuriating, cause it creates more work for the staff. We want to engage in meaningful discussion just like the rest of you, however, we waste our time locking, moving, deleting, etc. after a Laker loss. The running joke amongst the staff is that no one wants to be around after a Laker loss, cause it means more "work" and less "play" (ie engaging in discussion) for us.

As a staff, there isn't anything we wouldn't do for the members cause in reality, you guys make up CL. Some 15 members labeled as staff don't make up CL....its the dense Laker community and frankly, I really want to be a part of that. The staff isn't here to sport their "mod" labels. We come here to discuss Lakers. The staff isn't here to "police". We want to discuss Lakers just like you guys, but that takes responsibility on both sides - the staff and the members.

We'll be less lock-happy, if you guys can actually create meaningful discussion that merits the thread avoiding a lock.


Here is where I DO agree with you. I think we as a community need to try and avoid less baseless " LAMAR COST US DA GaME!!!?!?!" and create more meaningful discussion. I'm glad you close these kind of threads because the more you close them, the more they are discouraged.

However, threads that could turn out to be really interesting seem to sometimes get bunched in with these threads and get closed.

LD has a vent thread. So one liners followed by a myriad of banging head emotions can go there. There is absolutely no reason to create a thread based on those type of posts.


I think you under estimate the difficulty of having a dicussion in a massive sized thread.

Why? Cause you will have members that don't like the clutter and will come into those threads and post "NB4"s. They'll also post graphics and pics insinuating that the thread is a waste of bandwidth. What normally conspires thereafter, is a couple of members feeling the need for that type of thread to remain open as a medium to release their frustrations. Other members will then counter by posting LD's vent thread link or by mentioning that venting can just as easily be posted in the Gameday forum within that gameday thread. Then one member may go too far, by calling the other an idiot. Then all hell breaks loose and not only do we need to lock up the "clutter" but now we need to hand out citations for rules that were broken. The staff as a whole does not like banning members. So now we gotta decide who merits a suspension....for how long?...who's gonna PM the violator?.....all this transpires cause someone didn't take the time out to post their one line of frustration in the vent thread or the gameday thread. Lets not act like Gameday doesn't receive massive volume. Members know its there and that forum gets tremendous activity during games, so its only fitting that any type of venting thereafter can take place there and you wouldn't be alone, cause there are plenty to release that type of emotion with you.


Here I also do agree with you. I am happy when you close baseless vent threads. But as I said before, some critisize threads turn out to be good discussion. When people debate things, arguments possibly start, that's just part of a discussion. Of course major arguments that involve swearing and serious name calling should be shut down.

Firstly, there is somewhat of a loose quota that the staff has in allowing that certain threads remain open. Normally, there are about 3 threads that discuss the most recent game in particular that remain open for members to let loose in. However, the creator of those threads normally goes beyond just voicing a line's worth of frustration. They try to look at the most recent games played and tie in a pattern or a continued aspect that repeats game after game. Sometimes, the OP will even have stats or some type of media to back up their opinions. For example:

Title: Fisher is the key
Initial Post: Due to foul trouble, Fish had to take a seat early. That led to D. Williams going off..blah..blah..blah...

Here are the stats of both Games 3 and 4 with Fisher off the floor:

Stats Stats Stats

Notice how efficient Deron was when Fish was off.
Then take into account that LA made their runs and came back from double digit deficits when Fish was back on the floor. Tonight wish contributed 10 points in the clutch. During that time Deron only had so and so points.

Compare Games 3 and 4 to Games 1 and 2 and you will notice that it isn't just home court, it had alot to do with Fish being out on the floor.


This is good discussion, I agree. This is what you as moderators want to see more of and what we as members need to produce more of.

We will definitely be less eager to reach for a lock, if you give us a reason to be.

The responsibility goes both ways. Respect our time and efforts and we will do the same for you.


If you stick to that, then it's up to us members to produce better posts.
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Postby Darth Bynumite on Tue May 13, 2008 3:41 am

Example of thread that should be closed in my opinion: http://www.clublakers.com/forums/vlad-is-sad-t95120.html

Example of thread that should stay open: http://www.clublakers.com/forums/fishers-d-t90426.html

Examples of threads you have kept open that you wouldn't normally do that have turned into good threads:

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/when-will-farmar-learn-t95015.html

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/mihm-vs-mbenga-t94603.html

See the above two you would usually direct us to the Farmar thread and Mbenga thread. However, you kept them open this time and they've produced some discussion. I commend you for that.

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Postby Savory Griddles on Tue May 13, 2008 3:23 pm

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Postby strikemode14 on Tue May 13, 2008 5:15 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:Image


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Postby Heir on Tue May 13, 2008 5:48 pm

If there was one suggestion I would give the mods, it would be to always give a reason why they locked a certain thread. I know it can become annoying after awhile after you've had to do it so many times, but at least people will know what they can and can't do by virtue of others.
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Postby strikemode14 on Tue May 13, 2008 5:55 pm

Heir wrote:If there was one suggestion I would give the mods, it would be to always give a reason why they locked a certain thread. I know it can become annoying after awhile after you've had to do it so many times, but at least people will know what they can and can't do by virtue of others.
\

we are working to improve on that belive it or not.

Sometimes when we are locking muliple threads we don't always have the time and sometimes in general if we are busy or just in general we might forget to mention a reason.

However we are trying to improve in that area.
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Postby Heir on Tue May 13, 2008 6:01 pm

strikemode14 wrote:
Heir wrote:If there was one suggestion I would give the mods, it would be to always give a reason why they locked a certain thread. I know it can become annoying after awhile after you've had to do it so many times, but at least people will know what they can and can't do by virtue of others.
\

we are working to improve on that belive it or not.

Sometimes when we are locking muliple threads we don't always have the time and sometimes in general if we are busy or just in general we might forget to mention a reason.

However we are trying to improve in that area.

That's good to hear. Thanks.
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Postby trodgers on Tue May 13, 2008 6:39 pm

I answer to no man when I lock a thread.
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Postby trodgers on Tue May 13, 2008 6:40 pm

Edit: I thought I had mod powers in this forum. I was going to lock the thread...fail.
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Postby strikemode14 on Wed May 14, 2008 9:13 am

trodgers wrote:Edit: I thought I had mod powers in this forum. I was going to lock the thread...fail.


lol. :man10:
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Postby The Rock on Wed May 14, 2008 12:29 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:Image



AHAHAHAHAHAHA :man10: :man10: :man10: :man10:
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