C Butler for K Brown according to Vecsey in the NY Post

Postby maddprophet on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:44 pm

not mentioned in all this kwame talk is the ability of phil to get more out of this kid than anyone else has so far. experience wise he should be on the cusp of breaking out, put that with the guidence phil and co. will provide, i believe this kid will really blossom given the chance.

i figure he would want to prove doubters wrong after being dismissed from the wizz during the playoffs. that had to be a big blow to his ego. he's gotta want to redeem himself, and give a big "F" you to the wizz after everything. we have the best coach in the game, imagine what he can do for kwame's development???? :man4:
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Postby KBnLO on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:49 pm

I don't know why everyone is so high on Caron. I like the guy too, but the team needs another big and Caron is the El Matador.

Let's put it in a scenario.

If we keep Caron, our power forward rotation would look like this.

Grant, Turiaf, Cook and Slava. Grant gets injured, which he would most likely would, then we have to depend on a rookie. Now Turiaf maybe good, but if he's in foul trouble, we would depend on Cook and Slava to bail us out. I don't think anyone here would like to see that!

If we trade Caron for Brown, then our power forward rotation will look like this.

Brown, Grant and Turiaf. Very solid rotation which gives us the insurance if for some reason one of the three gets injured or gets into foul trouble.

Odom will still have Jones and George who are very solid backups.
Last edited by KBnLO on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby maddprophet on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:49 pm

verbal- talkin bout my sig??

no one has noticed it, or at least no comments. old school indeed. KRS ONE and Channel Live. that was some hot shyt!
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Postby SeVeN on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:57 pm

KBnLO wrote:I don't know why everyone is so high on Caron. I like the guy too, but the team needs another big and Caron is the El Matador.

Let's put it in a scenario.

If we keep Caron, our power forward rotation would look like this.

Grant, Turiaf, Cook and Slava. Grant gets injured, which he would most likely would, then we have to depend on a rookie. Now Turiaf maybe good, but if he's in foul trouble, we would depend on Cook and Slava to bail us out. I don't think anyone here would like to see that!

If we trade Caron for Brown, then our power forward rotation will look like this.

Brown, Grant and Turiaf. Very solid rotation which gives us the insurance if for some reason one of the three gets injured or gets into foul trouble.

Odom will still have Jones and George who are very solid backups.


I agree again!!!

In 2 years, our team would look very solid under PJax.

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Postby TalkieWalkie on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:02 pm

Vescy has been known to give ACCURATE info on trades... His track record is flawless.... :deal:
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Postby RJ on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:02 pm

KBnLO wrote:I don't know why everyone is so high on Caron. I like the guy too, but the team needs another big and Caron is the El Matador.

Let's put it in a scenario.

If we keep Caron, our power forward rotation would look like this.

Grant, Turiaf, Cook and Slava. Grant gets injured, which he would most likely would, then we have to depend on a rookie. Now Turiaf maybe good, but if he's in foul trouble, we would depend on Cook and Slava to bail us out. I don't think anyone here would like to see that!

If we trade Caron for Brown, then our power forward rotation will look like this.

Brown, Grant and Turiaf. Very solid rotation which gives us the insurance if for some reason one of the three gets injured or gets into foul trouble.

Odom will still have Jones and George who are very solid backups.

I agree. Maybe ship Caron and Slava or Cook for Brown and Dixon? It would fill two gaping holes... :jam2:
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:03 pm

maddprophet wrote:verbal- talkin bout my sig??

no one has noticed it, or at least no comments. old school indeed. KRS ONE and Channel Live. that was some hot shyt!


Most def, dawg!
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Postby maddprophet on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:07 pm

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maddprophet wrote:
verbal- talkin bout my sig??

no one has noticed it, or at least no comments. old school indeed. KRS ONE and Channel Live. that was some hot shyt!


Most def, dawg!

props! :jam2:
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Postby slomo24 on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:56 pm

As long as Juan Dixon is included in the deal, I'm all for it. That makes our MLE and LLE that much more flexible. Juan can play decent D and shows up for big games. If we still do get AD, you can believe Atkins will be leaving, probably to Atlanta for picks and some scrubs. Juan and Kwame can really help this team out, and it seems like the most reasonable trade I've heard on this board for a while. The Wiz don't want Kwame and are willing to part with Juan. Caron can score and be a substitute Larry Hughes until the find a more permanent solution.
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Postby LakersCourt on Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:02 pm

March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. :man4:
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:09 pm

LakersCourt wrote:March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. :man4:


Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas?

How many 6'7 athletic swingmen? A LOT!

You take the chance on Kwame because losing Caron isn't like losing Kobe or Shaq. Plain and simple, folks.
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Postby LakersCourt on Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:29 pm

I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up. However, I would love it if we could get an unconditional first round pick in the future as a result.


A lineup of

Antonio Daneils
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm

This could be a very scary lineup.

Mitch if you pull this off tust me, you are going to come out on top in the long run. :jam2:
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Postby LakerLove on Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:53 pm

caron for kwame and there 06 1st round
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:56 pm

ike i said, Brown + Dixon or Jared Jeffires for Caron and EXP CONTRACT of Wiz choice


it would be against our best wishes to trade for the equal amount of players in return... as it is we dont even have the roster space to us our EXCEPTIONS. we'd have to do a 2-for-1 or 3-for-2 or in a best best case scenario 4-for-2. we'd have to somehow match salaries but how can a team turn down 4 players for 2...

caron, cook, slava, atkins for s&t k. brown, s&t j. dixon

what do yall think?
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Postby LakersCourt on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:10 pm

LakerLove wrote:caron for kwame and there 06 1st round



Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. Just make sure that 06 first rounder is unconditional. :jam2:
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Postby GuRu on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:21 pm

VerbalMilk wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. :man4:


Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas?

How many 6'7 athletic swingmen? A LOT!

You take the chance on Kwame because losing Caron isn't like losing Kobe or Shaq. Plain and simple, folks.


Actually you CAN and SHOULD pass up this deal (if it even exists, VesceyMeter) when you already have 1 project big man, and some other glaring needs that could be addressd by using said trade bait.

If the Lakers pulled this trigger, i cant say Id be upset, but I wouldnt be elated either. I would however be more interested in how the team plans to fill the other needs minus their #1 trading piece
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Postby grego on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:22 pm

LakersCourt wrote:I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up. However, I would love it if we could get an unconditional first round pick in the future as a result.


A lineup of

Antonio Daneils
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm

This could be a very scary lineup.

Mitch if you pull this off tust me, you are going to come out on top in the long run. :jam2:


Depends how much money Brown gets. If he gets near MLE money in that sign and trade, I doubt Lakers would be willing to spend on Daniels, with the MLE. Lakers will never go over the luxury tax threshold.

So now, besides Brown being overrated by you, it likely takes away a chance at Daniels. Do you still do it?
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:30 pm

grego wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up. However, I would love it if we could get an unconditional first round pick in the future as a result.


A lineup of

Antonio Daneils
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm

This could be a very scary lineup.

Mitch if you pull this off tust me, you are going to come out on top in the long run. :jam2:


Depends how much money Brown gets. If he gets near MLE money in that sign and trade, I doubt Lakers would be willing to spend on Daniels, with the MLE. Lakers will never go over the luxury tax threshold.

So now, besides Brown being overrated by you, it likely takes away a chance at Daniels. Do you still do it?


what are you talking about? the lakers current payroll is $60mil+... the salary cap wont be much more than $50mil... i say they'd be well over that... reason why they're thinking about waiving brian grant.
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:33 pm

how does getting brown around the MLE hurt the chance of getting AD? i guess that means getting any player in a trade will hurt our chances too?
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Postby Jordan-esque on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:41 pm

Someone mentioned that it's funny that other teams are offering less for Kwame than the Lakers are.

Memphis is offering James Posey for Kwame Brown.

Inidana is offering Fred Jones for Kwame Brown.

Whilst... the Lakers are offering Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.

If I were the Wizards and Mitch somehow put this offer on the table, I'd had taken it without hesitation by now, because I'd be getting away with murder in acquiring Caron.

For the Lakers to do a straight up trade of Caron and Kwame will be dumb on Mitch's part. That's pretty much saying that Caron Butler = Fred Jones, or that Caron Butler = James Posey.
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Postby grego on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:41 pm

DaGreatKobe wrote:
grego wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up. However, I would love it if we could get an unconditional first round pick in the future as a result.


A lineup of

Antonio Daneils
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Chris Mihm

This could be a very scary lineup.

Mitch if you pull this off tust me, you are going to come out on top in the long run. :jam2:


Depends how much money Brown gets. If he gets near MLE money in that sign and trade, I doubt Lakers would be willing to spend on Daniels, with the MLE. Lakers will never go over the luxury tax threshold.

So now, besides Brown being overrated by you, it likely takes away a chance at Daniels. Do you still do it?


what are you talking about? the lakers current payroll is $60mil+... the salary cap wont be much more than $50mil... i say they'd be well over that... reason why they're thinking about waiving brian grant.


That waiving a player is a one time thing. You still have to pay the salary. The only thing it gets you out of is being over the luxury tax threshold. You still are over the cap.

The cap has yet to be determined. Last year it was like 43.7 million. We'll find out if it jumps nearly 7 million.

So a lot depends on a lot of things going down, first the Lakers using the Allan Houston rule as they call it, then hoping the cap jumps a lot, which sets the luxury tax threshold higher.

DaGreatKobe wrote:how does getting brown around the MLE hurt the chance of getting AD? i guess that means getting any player in a trade will hurt our chances too?


All about the money and managing the cap. You can't just go on a spending spree when you are already over the cap, even with sign and trade deals.
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Postby Guest on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:49 pm

ummmm thats what im saying..... u said us getting kwame in a S&T around the MLE price range would hurt our chances of landing AD. i really want to know how you came to that conclusion...

all this talking is making just want to keep caron.... if they want devean, sahsa, chucky, cook, slava, grant, divac then go ahead.... but keeping caron is a huge risk if we hold onto him all year. come next summer he'd command a huge payday, which im more than convinced the lakers wont be willing to pay... if he wants $5 a year then he can stay. but i see some idiot team maxing him out at the first opportunity.
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Postby grego on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:56 pm

DaGreatKobe wrote:ummmm thats what im saying..... u said us getting kwame in a S&T around the MLE price range would hurt our chances of landing AD. i really want to know how you came to that conclusion...


Well the likely hood that Grant stays on the roster, i'd say is better than not. The salary cap. The only teams i've really heard thinking of doing it were NY and Dallas. I heard LA mentioned, but not as common as the other two. It's a one time thing, so use it wisely, as they say. Then expecting the cap to jump so high is a big expectation. I doubt it, looking at the past few years. Lets say Kwame gets the full MLE for the sign and trade, and Daniels who seemingly is looking for the full MLE wants it. That's about 10 million for year one already. That's pushing it. Now thinking into the future(after next season), you are paying two guys MLE value when you need to build the team with other players. Now after next year, Grant comes off the books during the summer which allows you to continue to build off of the structure that is currently in place. You also need to keep in mind that the Lakers have to put some decent to good role players on the pay roll as well.
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Postby SWOL on Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:59 pm

MY THING IS THIS, IF WE ARE GOING TO TRADE BUTLER, WE HAD BETTER GET A STARTING PF OUT OF IT, WITH KWAME YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING, IF JARVIS HAYES AND JUAN DIXON WERE INCLUDED ID LOOK AT IT, BUT ASIDE FROM THAT NEEEEE
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Postby strikemode14 on Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:51 pm

I would not trade Caron for Kwame in any circumstance. Caron is a pretty good player whereas Kwame is a projected player with a bad attitude. The probelm with him being a project player is he has already been in the league 4 years. He needs to improve his game alot and from what I have seen from his attitude I doubt he will. If we just had to get Kwame I say we either sign him with the MLE or use George and Walton and do a S&T that's the best I can do for Kwame. Anything more would be a mismatch trade for the Lakers.
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