C Butler for K Brown according to Vecsey in the NY Post

Postby DMK on Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:56 pm

swolswol wrote:MY THING IS THIS, IF WE ARE GOING TO TRADE BUTLER, WE HAD BETTER GET A STARTING PF OUT OF IT, WITH KWAME YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING, IF JARVIS HAYES AND JUAN DIXON WERE INCLUDED ID LOOK AT IT, BUT ASIDE FROM THAT NEEEEE


Couldnt have said it better Swol :jam2:
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Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:30 am

This just in.......

Akron Beacon Journal:Posted on Mon, Jul. 11, 2005

Wizards reportedly working deal with Lakers for Butler

By DAVID ALDRIDGE

Philadelphia Inquirer

LAS VEGAS - The Washington Wizards, stung by the loss of free agent Larry Hughes to the Cavaliers, may be able to stanch the sting.

Sources involved with the discussions say that the Wizards are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers about a sign-and-trade deal in which forward Kwame Brown, the top pick in the 2001 NBA draft, would go to the Lakers in exchange for swingman Caron Butler.

The Wizards have other options on the table that could bring them a much-needed big man in return for Brown, but Butler would make a lot of sense.

Butler has been available during most of his yearlong stay in Los Angeles. If the Lakers move him and, as expected, release forward Brian Grant in order to save money under the luxury tax, they would have precious little to show for their blockbuster trade of Shaquille O'Neal to Miami.
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Postby jminges on Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:47 am

CARON WON'T BE TRADED FOR KWAME - IT'S JUST TO GET TEAMS INTERESTED IN THE LAKERS ROSTER

And duh, Brain Grant will be waived, I don't see how that will lessen the value of what the Lakers got in the Shaquille trade. The centerpeice was Lamar Odom, and he's "untouchable" so no pipedream senerios there.

I actually think the team is one "starter" away from a championship. It's a four.

PG Butler/Daniels SG Bryant/Wafer SF Odom/Jones PF TRADE/Turiaf C Mihm/Bynum

TRADE I think we can acquire Kenyon Martin ($10.5 M next year for 15ppg 7.5rpg 2.4apg) for cap relief.
-- His numbers dropped off significantly in the WEST, and they have Nene, Camby, Elson and Sanchez.

In comparison: Carlos Boozer ($11.5 M next year for 17ppg 9.0rpg 2.8apg)
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Postby GuRu on Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:48 am

Vasashi17 wrote:This just in.......


:man10:

After 10 pages of speculation...David Aldridge finally gets word as well. ESPN, always the last to know....
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Postby KobeWanKenobi on Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:39 am

While Kwame hasn’t spoken publicly about what happened during the playoffs, his teammate, Etan Thomas wanted to set some things straight.

“I'm so tired of hearing people who don't know what they are talking about say that he quit or that he is this terrible,� said Etan. “People have to realize that Kwame didn’t quit; he was suspended. I'm not saying that he chose the best method of handling his frustrations by not coming to practice or the next shootaround, but he didn't quit. He just wanted to play and got frustrated and didn't handle it well.�

But didn’t he cuss out Eddie Jordan when they got together to discuss the situation?

“Naw that isn’t true,� said Thomas. "They had a meeting and they told him that he was going to be suspended for the rest of the season, but that was decided before the meeting. That’s what I mean though; people are throwing all of this dirt on Kwame and most of the time they don't even know what they are talking about.�


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Postby strikemode14 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:33 am

This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.

Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6

Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7


Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF :bang: :bang: Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away.
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:45 am

LakersR#1 wrote:Sorry to see Caron go if this is true, but if it gets Lamar at SF, and a banger in the PF spot then it is best for the team.

Am I missing something? What banger do we get?
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:47 am

maddprophet wrote:brown has the potential to be a force down low. if this is the best offer on the table for us to improve down low, which we all agree is a priority, then it needs to be done.

I just have a very hard time believing that when Simmons gets $9.5 million in free agency, the best trade we can get for Caron is Kwame. I am not buying that one bit. No, Caron isn't much, but he + another ending contract or two could get us something much better.
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:49 am

maddprophet wrote:not mentioned in all this kwame talk is the ability of phil to get more out of this kid than anyone else has so far. experience wise he should be on the cusp of breaking out, put that with the guidence phil and co. will provide, i believe this kid will really blossom given the chance.

If MJ couldn't get anything out of Kwame, I doubt Phil can get much out of him. Phil isn't going to hold his hand, which is what this kid needs. He will be Phil's whipping boy, and that's not something he has the mental strength to handle.
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Postby abeer3 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:50 am

jsm0331 wrote:
maddprophet wrote:brown has the potential to be a force down low. if this is the best offer on the table for us to improve down low, which we all agree is a priority, then it needs to be done.

I just have a very hard time believing that when Simmons gets $9.5 million in free agency, the best trade we can get for Caron is Kwame. I am not buying that one bit. No, Caron isn't much, but he + another ending contract or two could get us something much better.


i've said it a lot already, but it bears repeating: this deal can only happen if the wizards give up another rotation player, such as dixon, hayes, or jeffries (maybe blake, but that's a stretch).
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:52 am

VerbalMilk wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. :man4:


Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas?

Kwame has Gumpitis. He has all the tools, but doesn't use them half of the time. And he's lazy. What's the point of having the physical tools and athleticism, if you never use it properly?
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:56 am

LakersCourt wrote:I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up.

And I personally say that you must be crazy. Something else of value better be included on the Wizards end, of Mitch gets an F this off season. I don't care how good of a draft he had or if he picks up Daniels and whoever else in fee agency. Only getting Kwame + trash isn't worth it. Hayes has to be included, and either Blatche or Dixon. We can toss them Cook and a resigned Luke or something if they want it.
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:57 am

LakerLove wrote:caron for kwame and there 06 1st round

Not worth it. Like I've said, next year's draft class is a very weak one. It makes this past one, seem like the 96 draft.
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Postby JSM on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:03 am

GuRu wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:This just in.......


:man10:

After 10 pages of speculation...David Aldridge finally gets word as well. ESPN, always the last to know....

But DA isn't with :bspn: anymore, remember, he's with TNT. He was basically replaced with Screaming A.
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Postby Kingsama on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:06 am

strikemode14 wrote:This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.

Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6

Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7


Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF :bang: :bang: Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away.



yeah its such a huge deal that in nearly 15 minutes more playing time Caron was able to grab .9 more rebounds than kwame. in per 48 states caron averages 7.9 boards where as kwame averages 10.9. To insinuate that caron is a better rebounder is obsurd.

Now lets look at kwames stats last year, prior to the injuries and further conflicts with the coach.

ppg 10.9
rpg 7.4
apg 1.5
blk .7
spg .9
fg% .48
ft% .68
3p% .500
min 30.3

now i wont sit here and say that those are the most astounding stats i have ever seen, but they were solid for big in his third year, especially one who was mentally castrated by MJ. I would prefer Tyson chander or the latest better than sex rumor of Kmart, but Mitch could do a lot worse than kwame. He could asyily be a 12, and 9 guy in a more supportive enviroment...
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Postby Guest on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:50 am

strikemode14 wrote:This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.

Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6

Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7


Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF :bang: :bang: Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away.


Bro, those stats are only glaring at the PPG, and we all know Caron became the 2nd option after Odom went down for almost half the season.

But you're also comparing 2 different positions which is a cardinal sin to do.

And the bottomline in all of this is, 6'7 swingmen are a dime-a-dozen in the NBA; 7 foot athletic big men aren't. Take the chance on a 7 footer just in case the dude pans out. The worst that can happen?: Kwame can flop. Getting a 6'7 swingman in the NBA is easy.
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Postby Guest on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:52 am

jsm0331 wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. :man4:


Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas?

Kwame has Gumpitis. He has all the tools, but doesn't use them half of the time. And he's lazy. What's the point of having the physical tools and athleticism, if you never use it properly?


It's still early in his career. A change of scenery may do the kid some good. You can't pass up a 7 footer with athleticism. How many 7 footers are in the NBA, bro?
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:46 am

strikemode14 wrote:This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.

Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6

Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7


Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF :bang: :bang: Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away.


Kwame per 48 minutes...

PPG - 15.4
RPG - 11
46% FG

Caron per 48 minutes...

PPG - 21
RPG - 8
45% FG

You may have an arguement statistically, but Kwame's points come in the PAINT, something we need desperately. Hell, Jumaine is a 15/10 guy per 48, and he is no where near as wanted as Caron. Caron is a great offensive player, but that's not what we need. We need a big body down low, and this could be the best one available this offseason. Caron will be persued heavily at the end of this season, so why let him leave for nothing if we already know a championship isn't coming?

Basically players like Caron are everywhere in the NBA, but a 6'11, 250 pound body with LOADS of potential aren't something you can get this cheaply available. This could be a Jermaine O'Neal type of situation, and in a complete rebuilding stage, I'd take the risk.
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Postby lakerfool on Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:49 am

Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget

7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.

If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league
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Postby LakersCourt on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:10 am

lakerfool wrote:Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget

7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.

If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league



I agree 100% with this assesment.

I do like a trade of Caron Butler and Stanislav Medvedenko for Kwame Brown and Jarvis Hayes, but would Washington be that stupid? Hayes is an excellent 2/3 player and good be an excellent backup for Kobe or Odom. He also would be excellent in the Traingle offense. Plus he has a personality that is easy to get along with, and has a high basketball IQ.

Mitch is GM of the year in my book...if:

Lakers trade:
Caron Butler-F
Stanislav Medvedenko-F

Wasington Trades:
Kwame Brown-F
Jarvis Hayes- G/F

Washington...please be this stupid.....those are your two best potential players on your team(now that Larry Hughes has bolted for Clevland). Please or please Washington....please be this dumb
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Postby lakerfool on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:14 am

LakersCourt wrote:
lakerfool wrote:Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget

7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.

If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league



I agree 100% with this assesment.

I do like a trade of Caron Butler and Stanislav Medvedenko for Kwame Brown and Jarvis Hayes, but would Washington be that stupid? Hayes is an excellent 2/3 player and good be an excellent backup for Kobe or Odom. He also would be excellent in the Traingle offense. Plus he has a personality that is easy to get along with, and has a high basketball IQ.

Mitch is GM of the year in my book...if:

Lakers trade:
Caron Butler-F
Stanislav Medvedenko-F

Wasington Trades:
Kwame Brown-F
Jarvis Hayes- G/F

Washington...please be this stupid.....those are your two best potential players on your team(now that Larry Hughes has bolted for Clevland). Please or please Washington....please be this dumb
:man1:


I highly doubt they would do that trade. Fromwhat i understand, they are still high onHayes. But onethey are not too high on is JUAN DIXON. If we can squeeze him by throwing in a future 2nd rounder, I'll do it by all means.

Same w/ Jared Jeffries. a 6-11 sf, 230 lbs, w/ amazing length.
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Postby Johny_Cash on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:17 am

:disagree: :disagree: :disagree: :disagree: :disagree:

There is no way in hell I would trade Caron for Kwame. I would however, trade George and Cook for K. Brown. It works for both teams...Washington gets a small forward/shooting guard in Goeorge as well as a big man in Cook and we get our big man. If it doesn't work out for Lakers, we only gave up players that we really didn't want. If it doesn't work out for Washington, they can let George go and use his expiring contract as relief. Both teams will have get potential upside and if it deosn't work out, neither team will get burned for it.
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Postby LakersCourt on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:21 am

I'd push for Hayes over Dixon. Hayes is money in the Truangle offesne. Back in January of this year against the Spurs(who play great defense) Hayes went for a career high 27 points, and hit 5 three point baskets during the game. :man4:

Yes, Juan Dixon would fill a need, but the Lakers would make out like a bandit if they did this deal. I would even through in Brian Cook, to ease their pain :man1:

If the Lakers have any chance of getting Hayes(Kwame and Jarvis were always my two favorite Wizards) we are going to be one DAMN deadly team in the future.

We MUST......I REPEAT MUST aim for Jarvis Hayes to be part of the deal. I can't tell you what this would mean to the Lakers to have this guy.
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Postby lakerfool on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:22 am

LakersCourt wrote:I'd push for Hayes over Dixon. Hayes is money in the Truangle offesne. Back in January of this year against the Spurs(who play great defense) Hayes went for a career high 27 points, and hit 5 three point baskets during the game.

Yes, Juan Dixon would fill a need, but the Lakers would make out like a bandit if they did this deal. I would even through in Brian Cook, to ease their pain :man1:

If the Lakers have any chance of getting Hayes(Kwame and Jarvis were always my two favorite Wizards) we are going to be one DAMN deadly team in the future.

We MUST......I REPEAT MUST aim for Jarvis Hayes to be part of the deal. I can't tell you what this would mean to the Lakers to have this guy.


We'd definately have to throw in a first rounder then

But remember, the Wiz just lost a key G/SF, so they won't move him

dixon is much more likely
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Postby Snake Eyes on Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:28 am

jsm0331 wrote:
LakersR#1 wrote:Sorry to see Caron go if this is true, but if it gets Lamar at SF, and a banger in the PF spot then it is best for the team.

Am I missing something? What banger do we get?


Brown is more of a shot blocker that we need that is what I was saying. But Strikemode made some very valid points with his showing of stats.
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