C Butler for K Brown according to Vecsey in the NY Post

He is a big

Postby THE SHAQ ERA on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:04 pm

Brown is a big and could still develop into a really good player , but i really like Caron so...Idont know :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Postby SOAD on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:06 pm

GuRu wrote:Caron for Kwame?

:hurl:


I agree :hurl:
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Postby Dime Dropper on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:08 pm

I'm sick of all the Caron trade rumors. At this point I would trade Caron for Etan Thomas just for everyone to shut up.
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Postby Guest on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:16 pm

Dime Dropper wrote:I'm sick of all the Caron trade rumors. At this point I would trade Caron for Etan Thomas just for everyone to shut up.

Rash decisions are for fools, my friend. Don't be a fool. And thank God you aren't the Lakers GM.
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Postby jimbo327 on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:18 pm

As much as I love Caron, and have been his supporter since day 1, the Lakers desperately need help at the Center position. Forget about Vlade, he's going to break down, and Mihm has no chance at the C position. And looking at Bynum's play and lack of experience/body development, the kid doesn't even have arms/chest/shoulders yet, he is definitely not ready. We will need help with a big body very quickly or we will be dominated on the boards again like last year.

If we want to make the playoffs, we need to secure the rebound and limit the opponents to 1 possession. Of course, Brown is not my first choice, but there is NOTHING out there. And it doesn't seem like anyone wants to trade with us, or Mitch just can't pull off a trade, whatever the reason, we need something to happen.

Only if Bynum's body was ready for a NBA type game ala Amare, but he is far from it. His arms are so skinny, nothing up top, and the worse part is he doesn't know how to use leverage in boxing out yet. He will need to learn and develop. In the meantime, we seriously need help.
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Postby Dime Dropper on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:20 pm

Watch it before I suggest Caron for Erick Strickland.
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Postby Guest on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:22 pm

Dime Dropper wrote:Watch it before I suggest Caron for Erick Strickland.

Aw damn! Ok, dawg, you win! :man10:
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Postby BGil on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:27 pm

VerbalMilk wrote:
DMK wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
Kobe is a much better ball handler than Jordan ever was


Actually, Kobe's handles didn't get good until about 2002 or later. MJ had handles coming out of NC, bro. Kobe was ALWAYS a hazard with the rock early on.


:man3: Kobe's handles > MJ's at any point of his career.


Nope. Go back and watch Kobe from 96-01..and see how many ball handling TOs he has. MJ was WAY more polished as a ball handler when he came out of NC, which is understandable since KB came from high school.


No way. Jordan averaged 3.55 TO's a game in his rookie year. And that's when he was being guarded by a bunch of stiffs. Jordan never really had a crossover or killer crossover, no spin moves, behind the back fakes, and had major trouble bringing the ball up against pressure. You can go look at any Kobe games from his rookie year (or the early years) and see a plethra of moves that Jordan never had. Kobe averages a lot of turnovers for the same reason AI does... defenses are much better now and they key on him like no other two guards in the history of the game. Jordan never dealt with defenders like Bowen, Prince, AK47, etc. Even people considered lax defenders in todays game would have been considered very good defenders in Jordan's era... case in point Vince Carter.
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Postby ahaider15 on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:31 pm

If caron can possibly get you jamaal magloire why get kwame

Its like saying we should get a hamburger instead of a steak where Jamaal Magloire is the steak. And steak it much better
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Postby Guest on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:37 pm

BGil wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
DMK wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
Kobe is a much better ball handler than Jordan ever was


Actually, Kobe's handles didn't get good until about 2002 or later. MJ had handles coming out of NC, bro. Kobe was ALWAYS a hazard with the rock early on.


:man3: Kobe's handles > MJ's at any point of his career.


Nope. Go back and watch Kobe from 96-01..and see how many ball handling TOs he has. MJ was WAY more polished as a ball handler when he came out of NC, which is understandable since KB came from high school.


No way. Jordan averaged 3.55 TO's a game in his rookie year. And that's when he was being guarded by a bunch of stiffs. Jordan never really had a crossover or killer crossover, no spin moves, behind the back fakes, and had major trouble bringing the ball up against pressure. You can go look at any Kobe games from his rookie year (or the early years) and see a plethra of moves that Jordan never had. Kobe averages a lot of turnovers for the same reason AI does... defenses are much better now and they key on him like no other two guards in the history of the game. Jordan never dealt with defenders like Bowen, Prince, AK47, etc. Even people considered lax defenders in todays game would have been considered very good defenders in Jordan's era... case in point Vince Carter.


We're not talking JUST rookie year here, bro. And handles don't mean "spin moves" and "crossovers" as much as it means dribbling and maintaining the rock. Also, MJ had more responsibility early on in his career than KB, so he handled the rock WAY more than KB did. The reason they wanted to take the ball out of Kobe's hand was because he was having trouble bringing up the rock. Go look at the 2000 Finals and see how the Pacers made a concerted effort to pressure Kobe because of his sub par handles.
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Postby west-magic-kobe on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:42 pm

i like caron like alot of people here........... but if we have the chance to get a legit 7ft young big body who happened to also be the #1 player in the draft a few years ago we have to do it. look at the potential frontcourt we would have of mihm,kwame,bynum & turiaf. that with kobe and lo could be something very ugly to deal with for years to come. plus maybe this trade wakes up kwame into the player he can be. we could potentially be the beast in the west with that size and athletic ability. very tough call to make but i dont see us getting any better big with caron that is available than kwame. only other guy that is young and worth that possibilty is tyson maybe.
sad to say but kobe has become all drama & no rings. TRADE THIS WEIRDO!
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Postby ahaider15 on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:56 pm

just because he was the first pick does not mean that makes him good so many players have been picked who are not that good. Kwame is no good Jamaal magloire is the center i want on my team
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Postby John3:16 on Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:58 pm

VerbalMilk wrote:
Dime Dropper wrote:I'm sick of all the Caron trade rumors. At this point I would trade Caron for Etan Thomas just for everyone to shut up.

Rash decisions are for fools, my friend. Don't be a fool. And thank God you aren't the Lakers GM.




:man10: :man10: :man10:
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Postby jimbo327 on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:17 pm

We will definitely go after Maglore first before Brown. But somehow, I don't think Mitch can pull off that trade. It's too good to be true.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:25 pm

GuRu wrote:Caron for Kwame?

:hurl:

My thoughts exactly. When the Pacers are only offering Fred Jones and we are offering Caron, something is wrong there.

All I know is that if there is any truth to these talks or this rumor, the offer better not be Caron for Kwame straight up. We better be getting something else of theirs, something of talent.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:31 pm

GuRu wrote:Peter Vescey = credible...

:man10:

Hey now...he is a pretty good source. He said Webber was going to be traded and he was 100% sure on this...

It was during the playoffs...too bad that it was when the NBA was on NBC and it was the playoffs in 2001. Maybe he got it a little early. Should we call him Mr. Cleo?

I think there is some truth to this rumor though. I would be willing to bet that we are talking to the Wizards about Kwame and that Caron would be the one heading to DC...but I have a hard time believing that we would put an offer on the table, before being 100% sure that there wasn't a way we could get Magloire. And I have a hard time believing that it would be a straight up deal, no way Mitch can be dumb enough to take Gump (the PF), without getting something else from them.
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Postby Jordan-esque on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:33 pm

sky_hook wrote:Even if Jerry West likes Kwame Brown.....do you think he would give up Caron Butler for him? I dont think so.


True.

People always think Jerry West's draft = Kobe Bryant. But that's not always true. Just because Jerry West likes the guy, it doesn't mean he's a sure fire hit. I mean, just look at Devean George! Anyway, Jerry West was also so high on Drew Gooden and even drafted him #4 overall, to only trade him the year after for Mike Miller. What's up with that? Imagine if Jerry West drafted Kwame. After finding out what little basketball IQ he had, West would've probably traded him before training camp even started.

Going back to the topic.

Kwame Brown? Didn't he have a little nickname on the papers back then as "Kwame Brick", not because he was shooting bricks, but because he was as dumb as a brick?

Sure he has potential, sure he's got a big body, sure he's still young, heck, he might turn out to be Jermaine O'Neal. But at this stage? I don't think he'd even make an "impact" with the team in the next 3 years. He could be Jermaine O'Neal or he could just end up like Ousmane Cisse or worse.

If Kwame only showed some, just a little basketball IQ, then I'd do it, because potential is worth squat if your head's not in the right place. But right now, I'd only do it if there were other players involved as well. Because the Lakers are giving away someone already proven for someone with only potential.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:34 pm

jaminges wrote:Caron Butler and Devean George for Kwame Brown and a first round pick.

In a weak draft...not thanks. We have some good young players, we have a couple of decent prospects in the summer league too. We need to add veterans now and players that can play now. Best thing for us in a draft next year would be Adam Morrison, he would be a great triangle player, but just not something we need at this point, especially not at the expense of losing Caron and only getting Kwame, for the time being.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:37 pm

sirronstuff wrote:It'll give Bynum a chance to develop while we have a serviceable center. Interesting.....

Did I miss something in the deal? Where do we get a servicable center? Please tell me you aren't calling Kwame one. He's a PF. Maybe in the East, they can get by with playing him some at the C, when Haywood sits, but not in the West. He would get torn to shreds. He can't even play the PF, his natural position, how do you expect him to play C?
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:40 pm

silversyphon41 wrote:
jaminges wrote:Caron Butler and Devean George for Kwame Brown and a first round pick.


Interesting proposal. This would clearly be a trade for the future. Caron can produce right now, but Kwame can't. Kinda like a Jermaine O'Neal idea, when Portland ditched him just before he began to produce. Oh the possibilities. :man1:

The words Kwame and Jermaine should never be used in a comparison. If you chopped of JO's left leg and right arm, he would be more productive than Kwame has ever been.
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Postby grego on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:41 pm

BGil wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
DMK wrote:
VerbalMilk wrote:
Kobe is a much better ball handler than Jordan ever was


Actually, Kobe's handles didn't get good until about 2002 or later. MJ had handles coming out of NC, bro. Kobe was ALWAYS a hazard with the rock early on.


:man3: Kobe's handles > MJ's at any point of his career.


Nope. Go back and watch Kobe from 96-01..and see how many ball handling TOs he has. MJ was WAY more polished as a ball handler when he came out of NC, which is understandable since KB came from high school.


No way. Jordan averaged 3.55 TO's a game in his rookie year. And that's when he was being guarded by a bunch of stiffs.


MJ started in his first year. Kobe started in 6 and averaged 15.5 mpg while MJ averaged 38.8 mpg. A little hard to use the turnover argument when MJ played more than double the minutes.
Last edited by grego on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:43 pm

Caron1 wrote:Plus, maybe we could include Chucky in the deal (Wash. needs a new combo guard now that Hughes is gone)?

I'd throw in Cook and Sasha, just so we could make some roster room for a few new players from the Wizards. Because if we are giving up Caron and Atkins, we better be getting a lot more than just Kwame.

Cook, Sasha, Atkins, Caron for Kwame, Hayes, Blatche, and future draft pick.

That looks good to me, only if we get Daniels, because Smush surely can't handle starting.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:44 pm

LakersCourt wrote:I am EXTREMLY HIGH

To like Kwame and willing to do a straight up deal, you must be
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Postby grego on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:45 pm

jsm0331 wrote:
LakersCourt wrote:I am EXTREMLY HIGH

To like Kwame and willing to do a straight up deal, you must be


It is LakersCourt though, so that's highly believable.
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Postby JSM on Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:48 pm

LakersCourt wrote:PG-LeBron James
SG-Kobe Bryant
SF-Lamar Odom
PF-Kwame Brown
C-Andrew Bynum

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