HoopsWorld: Josh Smith to L.A.? (DET update p9)

Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:14 am

wallangong wrote:
L4L wrote:
wallangong wrote:i've seen you mention this a number of times: where does this news come from about Smith having a better work ethic? please don't just say because Odom doesn't go right and his jump shot. is there any sort of evidence ANYWHERE to suggest he has a better work ethic?


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Per 36 so it isn't an increase in playing time. He has improved his game every season.

Smith has continually added moves and abilities to his repertoire and it has manifested itself in the statistics.

Odom, on the other hand, outside of a better understanding of his role and the extent of his abilities in the NBA, is a very similar player to when he first came in the league.


this correlates to his work ethic, but doesn't prove anything regarding their work ethic. Smith has a much higher ceiling than LO, isn't it possible he just plateaued? and consider he hasn't been able to refine his game in the past 2 offseasons, it's a little misleading to think that PER stats tell you who works harder than the other. some people have a natural touch and instinct for the game. Smith has much better instincts on D and his athleticism is unquestioned.

Jason Kidd is one of the worst shooting Guards in the league, does that mean he hasn't worked on his shot?

i love Smith's game and i'd probably do the trade, i would just like to see actual accounts from observers before i compare the work ethic of a guy who's leveled off and another who has a questionable attitude. just MHO.


I don't think LO has plateued. He has been the same player since his rookie year. If he really wanted to improve his jump shot and right hand, he could. He doesn't work at it. I know just from the limited basketball that I have played that the more shots I take, the more often they start going in. I know the more I dribble with my left, the more comfortable I get with it. These are things that can be worked on. Granted, some people are just naturally better jum shooters, but we're not asking Odom to become a premier jump shooter. Just adequate. 35-37% from downtown and 40-43% on his midrange jumpers would be MORE than sufficient. We're not asking for Glen Rice type shooting.

Something to keep in mind as well is Smith is close to Bynum's age. If we can lock up two young studs, we will be able to reload once Kobe/Gasol retire instead of having to completely rebuild around Bynum.
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Postby Perfect Makes Practice on Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:14 am

KB24@CL wrote:
Perfect Makes Practice wrote:
Armani wrote:Cleveland? :man10: :man10: :man10:


they have nothing outside of lebron to offer.



Wally's expiring contract.


hmmm...why would they want Wally's expiring K when they can just let Josh Smith go and not resign him?



because he'd be a BYC, the Hawks would have to add another player to make the #'s work. So they would want to add a bad contract to get it off their books.

ala what Kings are trying to do with Artest and Thomas.

just my opinion.
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Postby sleepin4matty on Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:49 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
wallangong wrote:
L4L wrote:
wallangong wrote:i've seen you mention this a number of times: where does this news come from about Smith having a better work ethic? please don't just say because Odom doesn't go right and his jump shot. is there any sort of evidence ANYWHERE to suggest he has a better work ethic?


Image
Per 36 so it isn't an increase in playing time. He has improved his game every season.

Smith has continually added moves and abilities to his repertoire and it has manifested itself in the statistics.

Odom, on the other hand, outside of a better understanding of his role and the extent of his abilities in the NBA, is a very similar player to when he first came in the league.


this correlates to his work ethic, but doesn't prove anything regarding their work ethic. Smith has a much higher ceiling than LO, isn't it possible he just plateaued? and consider he hasn't been able to refine his game in the past 2 offseasons, it's a little misleading to think that PER stats tell you who works harder than the other. some people have a natural touch and instinct for the game. Smith has much better instincts on D and his athleticism is unquestioned.

Jason Kidd is one of the worst shooting Guards in the league, does that mean he hasn't worked on his shot?

i love Smith's game and i'd probably do the trade, i would just like to see actual accounts from observers before i compare the work ethic of a guy who's leveled off and another who has a questionable attitude. just MHO.


I don't think LO has plateued. He has been the same player since his rookie year. If he really wanted to improve his jump shot and right hand, he could. He doesn't work at it. I know just from the limited basketball that I have played that the more shots I take, the more often they start going in. I know the more I dribble with my left, the more comfortable I get with it. These are things that can be worked on. Granted, some people are just naturally better jum shooters, but we're not asking Odom to become a premier jump shooter. Just adequate. 35-37% from downtown and 40-43% on his midrange jumpers would be MORE than sufficient. We're not asking for Glen Rice type shooting.

Something to keep in mind as well is Smith is close to Bynum's age. If we can lock up two young studs, we will be able to reload once Kobe/Gasol retire instead of having to completely rebuild around Bynum.


There's a slight flaw in your logic here as you forget a key point. Odom hasn't been able to work on his game for quite a few offseasons due to A) the death of his son and B) offseason surgery/rehab. We saw near the end of this season LO driving more to his right and dribbling with his right more often. Why can't he translate that into his jump shooting also? It's just foolish to say that a player hasn't worked on his game when he hasn't really had the opportunity to do so because he's killing himself during the regular season and has to have surgery in the offseason.

You have to keep in mind that this past offseason (or last I can't remember) he was pondering retirement because he was so distraught by the loss of his son. Who knows if he even picked up a basketball that whole time he was grieving?
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Postby wallangong on Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:54 am

[/quote]

I don't think LO has plateued. He has been the same player since his rookie year. If he really wanted to improve his jump shot and right hand, he could. He doesn't work at it. I know just from the limited basketball that I have played that the more shots I take, the more often they start going in. I know the more I dribble with my left, the more comfortable I get with it. These are things that can be worked on. Granted, some people are just naturally better jum shooters, but we're not asking Odom to become a premier jump shooter. Just adequate. 35-37% from downtown and 40-43% on his midrange jumpers would be MORE than sufficient. We're not asking for Glen Rice type shooting.

Something to keep in mind as well is Smith is close to Bynum's age. If we can lock up two young studs, we will be able to reload once Kobe/Gasol retire instead of having to completely rebuild around Bynum.[/quote]

i agree that Smith is a perfect young stud to build around along with Bynum. it really would be difficult not to do that trade (as long as Smith was happy not being "the guy"), but Odom has improved fg%, rebounding, and t/o rate consistently throughout his career. if you look at his 3pt shooting, he actually was pretty solid through his first 7 years. he had highs up around 36 and 37%, and lows at 29 and 30%. he's seen a significant drop the past few years, in large part due him not being asked to be a jumpshooter (for the most part).

Smith is the future and has a much much higher ceiling, i just dont think stats can tell the whole story about work ethic. by no means do i think LO is anywhere near Kobe as far as ethic, but i haven't seen anything suggesting Smith is either. He's improved his game because he's a frickin beast.

that said, this would actually be my favorite trade to pull of with LO.
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Postby last stand on Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:02 am

in regards to the cavs if you really wanted a 13 million expiring wouldn't you rather it be attached to lamar odom than wally

not to mention we are in the west and the cavs are in their division

i wont count the cavs out but we have a significantly better offer in the opposite conference
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Postby sleepin4matty on Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:03 am

wallangong wrote:

I don't think LO has plateued. He has been the same player since his rookie year. If he really wanted to improve his jump shot and right hand, he could. He doesn't work at it. I know just from the limited basketball that I have played that the more shots I take, the more often they start going in. I know the more I dribble with my left, the more comfortable I get with it. These are things that can be worked on. Granted, some people are just naturally better jum shooters, but we're not asking Odom to become a premier jump shooter. Just adequate. 35-37% from downtown and 40-43% on his midrange jumpers would be MORE than sufficient. We're not asking for Glen Rice type shooting.

Something to keep in mind as well is Smith is close to Bynum's age. If we can lock up two young studs, we will be able to reload once Kobe/Gasol retire instead of having to completely rebuild around Bynum.


i agree that Smith is a perfect young stud to build around along with Bynum. it really would be difficult not to do that trade (as long as Smith was happy not being "the guy"), but Odom has improved fg%, rebounding, and t/o rate consistently throughout his career. if you look at his 3pt shooting, he actually was pretty solid through his first 7 years. he had highs up around 36 and 37%, and lows at 29 and 30%. he's seen a significant drop the past few years, in large part due him not being asked to be a jumpshooter (for the most part).

Smith is the future and has a much much higher ceiling, i just dont think stats can tell the whole story about work ethic. by no means do i think LO is anywhere near Kobe as far as ethic, but i haven't seen anything suggesting Smith is either. He's improved his game because he's a frickin beast.

that said, this would actually be my favorite trade to pull of with LO.


I can't agree more. Although it is unfair of people to say LO isn't fit to play SF because of his poor 3pt% and think that Smith would be any better. I just like Smith more because of his defensive ability (more blocks than anyone his age by a LONG SHOT) and his age.
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Postby Psychobroker on Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:04 am

The Sage wrote:pass. smith is no doubt a freak but his jumper is even more non existent than lamars


He's young enough to iron out his shot mechanics and extend his range. He's got all the tools.
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Postby trodgers on Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:18 am

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Cleveland...but they suck. James and Smith would be devastating. Two guys who can score, board like crazy. James for handing out dimes and Smith for blocking shots? That's a nice core.
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Postby Crispy on Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:57 am

I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.
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Postby Larry14r on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:11 pm

Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.
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Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 pm

Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


Conceivably, that's possible. Smith could take the qualifying offer this season and leave next season for nothing. Smith for Odom and our 2009 first could be attractive for Atlanta. Put out a suitable replacement for Smith next season and get a draft pick. The way it stands now, Smith signs the QO and walks, leaving them with zip.
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Postby mapabu1 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:06 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


Conceivably, that's possible. Smith could take the qualifying offer this season and leave next season for nothing. Smith for Odom and our 2009 first could be attractive for Atlanta. Put out a suitable replacement for Smith next season and get a draft pick. The way it stands now, Smith signs the QO and walks, leaving them with zip.


The lakers can't trade a first round pick until 2012
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Postby Savory Griddles on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:13 pm

mapabu1 wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


Conceivably, that's possible. Smith could take the qualifying offer this season and leave next season for nothing. Smith for Odom and our 2009 first could be attractive for Atlanta. Put out a suitable replacement for Smith next season and get a draft pick. The way it stands now, Smith signs the QO and walks, leaving them with zip.


The lakers can't trade a first round pick until 2012


You sure about that? I thought the rule was you can't trade consecutive year's picks within the same season. Now that the Grizz have used our 2008 pick, I thought were free to trade our 2009?
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Postby sleepin4matty on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:19 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
mapabu1 wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


Conceivably, that's possible. Smith could take the qualifying offer this season and leave next season for nothing. Smith for Odom and our 2009 first could be attractive for Atlanta. Put out a suitable replacement for Smith next season and get a draft pick. The way it stands now, Smith signs the QO and walks, leaving them with zip.


The lakers can't trade a first round pick until 2012


You sure about that? I thought the rule was you can't trade consecutive year's picks within the same season. Now that the Grizz have used our 2008 pick, I thought were free to trade our 2009?


That might be correct. I'd have to look at Coon's CBA assessment. One other perk for ATL would be getting out of Claxton's contract which will be a $5M expiring next season (09-10).
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Postby mapabu1 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:19 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
mapabu1 wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


Conceivably, that's possible. Smith could take the qualifying offer this season and leave next season for nothing. Smith for Odom and our 2009 first could be attractive for Atlanta. Put out a suitable replacement for Smith next season and get a draft pick. The way it stands now, Smith signs the QO and walks, leaving them with zip.


The lakers can't trade a first round pick until 2012


You sure about that? I thought the rule was you can't trade consecutive year's picks within the same season. Now that the Grizz have used our 2008 pick, I thought were free to trade our 2009?


I am fairly positive
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:35 pm

Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


What indication has he given that he would do such a thing? Why would he do it? If he's interested in getting paid as it looks, he'll want as many teams negotiating with him (& the Hawks) as possible.

People around here are so quick to pull the "Player X Force a Trade to the Lakers/Take Less Money to Come to the Lakers" card, but there's no real reason for most players to do that, especially when they're young and looking to get their first lucrative contract.
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Postby last stand on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:37 pm

where is emplay

you know when you look at it logically

which i haven't yet but i will now

if the hawks are willing to take on wally or lamar for expiring reasons

what is stopping them from simply having josh sign a 1 year qualifying offer of 12 million

its an expiring that keeps their fans from rioting

oh and if they decide to trade him

i fully expect the hawks if smart which they aren't to trade him out west

why would they trade him to cleveland when the offer isn't half as good as ours

c'mon which can you sell to the fans wally 13 million expiring

lamar odom 14 million expiring i don't see the benefit in that trade scenario in picking wally

if you use common sense

as i've said and i will stick by it

lakers
dallas
heat
detroit
orlando

are really the only ones with a shot

lakers can offer being in the west therefore their fans seeing josh only 1 time a year and by far the 2nd most talented expiring contract on the market who is a PF

dallas can offer josh but the hawks want marvin starting at SF and well josh howard wouldn't be happy coming off the bench

heat have the most talented expiring in shawn but are in the east i'm not sure atlanta fans want to see josh 2 times a year and possibly in the playoffs(you never know)

detroit they are in the same division i cannot in any way see the hawks doing that unless its teyshaun prince, rasheed wallace, chauncey billups for josh and bibby

orlando can offer hedo turkogulu and fillers but is that enough to appease the fan base i highly doubt it.

see why cleveland has no chance not only is cleveland in the same division their expiring is not as much as odom or marion since wally makes 13 million and hickson is not nearly the compensation necessary to appease season ticket holders

i can't see a logical sitiuation where cleveland is remotely a player
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Postby last stand on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:44 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Larry14r wrote:
Crispy wrote:I doubt the Hawks would even trade with us. After the Gasol trade, teams aren't exactly fast to trade their 22 yr old star players to us.


Unless Smith forces the Hawks to trade him to us.


What indication has he given that he would do such a thing? Why would he do it? If he's interested in getting paid as it looks, he'll want as many teams negotiating with him (& the Hawks) as possible.

People around here are so quick to pull the "Player X Force a Trade to the Lakers/Take Less Money to Come to the Lakers" card, but there's no real reason for most players to do that, especially when they're young and looking to get their first lucrative contract.


he could easily get 13 million a year from us

thats what he wants and he would get that

IMO to be in LA become a star and to get the money he desires

i could see him forcing a trade here

all mitch has to say is look at gasol and bynum

2 guys next to noone but hardcore fans and spanish(for gasol) knew

bynum starts playing well he ends up on ESPN top 5 lists and they were discussing him every night something that would not happen had he been anywhere else

go to other teams forums they all hold bynum in high esteem whhy because of the overwhelming publicity he got on ESPN

pau gasol was a spanish superstar but since he was in the finals he suddenly is known by every one. his trade here was the most buzzworthy thing since shaq came here.

thats what the lakers do for you

now imagine a flashy guy like josh smith playing on national TV on the biggest stages in the NBA finals in front of all the US.

the endorsements would begin to roll in

thats too much for a guy like him to pass up

especially when he'll get the contract he wants
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Postby emplay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:38 pm

at the sasha press conference - the machine says wassup
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Postby sleepin4matty on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:46 pm

emplay wrote:at the sasha press conference - the machine says wassup


Awesome. :man13: Any word re: Smith?
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Postby emplay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:48 pm

not the kind of thing Mitch is going to talk about openly - no word yet on it - again I don't think Atlanta or Smith or even the Lakers are fully committed to anything yet on any level.
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Postby 10scott10 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:52 pm

emplay wrote:not the kind of thing Mitch is going to talk about openly - no word yet on it - again I don't think Atlanta or Smith or even the Lakers are fully committed to anything yet on any level.

have there been recent talks?
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Postby emplay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:54 pm

the last I have on the Lakers is that they inquired a week and half - two weeks ago - and were told the Hawks weren't S&T Josh Smith - thus a dead end.

If Sekou Smith is right - that stance may have shifted - but I still don' t know if that impacts the Lakers .
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Postby sleepin4matty on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:58 pm

10scott10 wrote:
emplay wrote:not the kind of thing Mitch is going to talk about openly - no word yet on it - again I don't think Atlanta or Smith or even the Lakers are fully committed to anything yet on any level.

have there been recent talks?


Just curious if you had heard any more rumblings about it.
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Postby emplay on Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:03 pm

honestly no - it's really quiet right now - and everyone seems to think LA is standing pat - you can take taht to be true - or that they're keeping things quiet re: any potential deals.

I do believe given the opportunity the Lakers would move Odom if they felt it improved their team dramatically - I know they're monitoring Chicago with Deng/Hinrich - and I know they had interest in Smith a week or so ago.

But I haven't been able to get more yet - possibly cause there is no more - or possibly because it's just kept intentionally private.
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