OC Register: Should the Lakers Look at Shaun Livingston?

Postby emplay on Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:57 pm

Crawford - not under contract
Karl - not guaranteed
Mbenga - not under contract
Mitchell - not guaranteed
Sun - not under contract

Sun has agreed to terms - those terms aren't public - since the contract isn't signed - it's hard for me to find out if it's guaranteed
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Postby therealdeal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:08 pm

Barnstable wrote:^I don't think Mitchel Has a guaranteed contract yet, but anyway, you can't bypass great opportunities to add starter talent (In a year or so) just because it's a slight risk.

Fish will be declining soon and we will need another solid PG. Farmar isn't enough to rest on our laurels at the position. Livingston has shown more upside and is currently better (if healthy) than Sun, Dwayne, and Karl so I would much rather take the risk on him coming back healthy, than the risk that any of those three will turn into what Shawn was when he was healthy.

If a camp invite isn't enough to get Livingston, offer him a one year minimum contract and call it a day.


Farmar is our future point guard and i think that it will take more than an injured "maybe" player to replace him. your key words are IF HEALTHY. Livingston had an incredibly terrible injury and the chances of him coming back to his full form are slim, let another team take the chance on him. WE HAVE ENOUGH OPTIONS AT THE GUARD SPOT. and why judge the futures of Yue and Crawford without actually seeing them play in a game? let Livingston go to another team that is wiling to take the chance on a "maybe" player, we dont need to.

camp invite will do nicely, if he declines, its his loss, good luck to him
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Postby sm61893 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:13 pm

emplay wrote:Crawford - not under contract
Karl - not guaranteed
Mbenga - not under contract
Mitchell - not guaranteed
Sun - not under contract

Sun has agreed to terms - those terms aren't public - since the contract isn't signed - it's hard for me to find out if it's guaranteed


So right now we sit at 12. I still not sure I would take a chance. I'm sure that Sun will be guaranteed it’s more about revenue with him then skill in my opinion. I'm not saying he can't play just that the Lakers FO wants to pull in that Chinese fan base. I just don't see room for a guy that may be able to play.
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Postby lakerholic on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:27 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:The sad thing about this is i bet i am not alone in thinking i would rather give him Luke waltons salary and be possibly not able to play than to keep Luke on team getting his salary. i know it makes no sense but that is just how much i can't stand pukes game. i am having fantasies of signing injured players instead of having luke. :man10:


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Postby Barnstable on Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:46 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Barnstable wrote:^I don't think Mitchel Has a guaranteed contract yet, but anyway, you can't bypass great opportunities to add starter talent (In a year or so) just because it's a slight risk.

Fish will be declining soon and we will need another solid PG. Farmar isn't enough to rest on our laurels at the position. Livingston has shown more upside and is currently better (if healthy) than Sun, Dwayne, and Karl so I would much rather take the risk on him coming back healthy, than the risk that any of those three will turn into what Shawn was when he was healthy.

If a camp invite isn't enough to get Livingston, offer him a one year minimum contract and call it a day.


Farmar is our future point guard and i think that it will take more than an injured "maybe" player to replace him. your key words are IF HEALTHY. Livingston had an incredibly terrible injury and the chances of him coming back to his full form are slim, let another team take the chance on him. WE HAVE ENOUGH OPTIONS AT THE GUARD SPOT. and why judge the futures of Yue and Crawford without actually seeing them play in a game? let Livingston go to another team that is wiling to take the chance on a "maybe" player, we dont need to.

camp invite will do nicely, if he declines, its his loss, good luck to him


Having a bunch of options at the point isn't good enough. We need to sign the best players available to us at the guard spots. And what do you mean we have enough options at guard? We only have four players at the guard spot who have proven anything and deserve to be on the team (Fish, Farmar, Kobe and Sasha) so why would we not want to drop one of those rookies for proven talent? The IF of weather Livingston can come back healthy is less of a question than IF any of those other rookies will ever show the potential or even play to the level of Livingston before the injury. That's a level no where near Livingstons prime I might add.

I don't understand your logic at all on this. Yes, if he will take a camp invite, do that instead, but we lose nothing in signing Livingston if we have to.

Roster spot? Livingston would be taking the place of someone who wouldn't be playing anyway, so it won't hurt the team if he turned out to be permanently injured. If he can come back even near his old level, we will have added a key member to our young core for years to come. A healthy Bynum, Farmar, Ariza and Livingston is a great young core.

Contract? One year minimum so we aren't making a long term investment before we know what he can do.

Luxury tax? We were going to sign at least one of those guards to a rookie contract anyway. Livingston would probably in the $800,000 zone (I'm guessing because I haven't checked how long he's been in the league). Even once doubled, the amount over the rookie contract he would be replacing would still be worth it for a player of Livingstons quality.

Seriously, there is no down side to this.
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Postby emplay on Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:49 pm

yeah - better check with Shaun to make sure he wants to come first before assuming it's the Lakers choice. He wants to be in a position where he'd have a chance to earn the starting spot - not be third string behind Fisher and Farmar.
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Postby Barnstable on Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:57 pm

emplay wrote:yeah - better check with Shaun to make sure he wants to come first before assuming it's the Lakers choice. He wants to be in a position where he'd have a chance to earn the starting spot - not be third string behind Fisher and Farmar.


No doubt it's his choice.

I'm talking about the maximum the Lakers should do to entice him (ie, minimum contract if a camp invite doesn't work).

We should have an advantage though since he knows LA and should feel comfortable not having to start over in another city (assuming he likes LA).
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Postby iggypop123 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:53 am

it might be best for him to continue to wait and work and sing midseason when he is truly closest to 100 %
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Postby therealdeal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:52 am

Barnstable wrote:
emplay wrote:yeah - better check with Shaun to make sure he wants to come first before assuming it's the Lakers choice. He wants to be in a position where he'd have a chance to earn the starting spot - not be third string behind Fisher and Farmar.


No doubt it's his choice.

I'm talking about the maximum the Lakers should do to entice him (ie, minimum contract if a camp invite doesn't work).

We should have an advantage though since he knows LA and should feel comfortable not having to start over in another city (assuming he likes LA).


ok well look at it this way, emplay said that livingston wants to fight for a starting spot, can he honestly do that on this team? no.
my logic behind the guards spot being stuffed is that Mitch is bent on signing Yue, we already have Fish and Farmar. We have Kobe, Sasha and Crawford fighting for the benchwarmer spot.
Why do you have to sign this guy without seeing what he can do? Worst case scenario for this guy hes at his end of the rope which means hes a lot like the rookies we're bringing in, but with little room or ability to better himself. Best case scenario hes back to his best and we cant give him the minutes he wants and we end up with a bad situation at the Guard spot.
honestly why cant you admit that an invite is more appropriate? im not saying we absolutely shouldnt sign him, hes obviously worth a look, but i dont understand why you think we HAVE to sign him.

i dont understand your logic at all
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Postby Barnstable on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:37 am

therealdeal wrote:
Barnstable wrote:
emplay wrote:yeah - better check with Shaun to make sure he wants to come first before assuming it's the Lakers choice. He wants to be in a position where he'd have a chance to earn the starting spot - not be third string behind Fisher and Farmar.


No doubt it's his choice.

I'm talking about the maximum the Lakers should do to entice him (ie, minimum contract if a camp invite doesn't work).

We should have an advantage though since he knows LA and should feel comfortable not having to start over in another city (assuming he likes LA).


ok well look at it this way, emplay said that livingston wants to fight for a starting spot, can he honestly do that on this team? no.
my logic behind the guards spot being stuffed is that Mitch is bent on signing Yue, we already have Fish and Farmar. We have Kobe, Sasha and Crawford fighting for the benchwarmer spot.
Why do you have to sign this guy without seeing what he can do? Worst case scenario for this guy hes at his end of the rope which means hes a lot like the rookies we're bringing in, but with little room or ability to better himself. Best case scenario hes back to his best and we cant give him the minutes he wants and we end up with a bad situation at the Guard spot.
honestly why cant you admit that an invite is more appropriate? im not saying we absolutely shouldnt sign him, hes obviously worth a look, but i dont understand why you think we HAVE to sign him.

i dont understand your logic at all


What are you talking about? I said offer him a minimum contract, IF he won't accept a training camp invite.

What Emplay's saying about Livingston wanting playtime might be right, but has nothing to do with what I've been saying the Lakers front office should do. All they can do is offer him the best reasonable offer they can if he won't accept a training camp invite and I'm advocating that the best deal they can give him is a one year minimum.

As for the guard spots, are you seriously trying to argue that we should not sign Livingston because it means we'd have to give up Crawford :thezen: I'm not even sure we would have to give up Crawford, we might just be able to retain his rights and send him down to the D-League (which might happen to Crawford even if we don't sign Livingston anyway). And as good as I think Farmar will be, you're making a huge assumption in thinking a healthy Livingston won't play in front of Farmar (once he knows the offense and has Phil's trust).

Your also making assumptions about the adverse effects on the rotation if we sign Livingston. Since when has being an even deeper team and steeper competion for playtime been a bad thing?
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Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:34 am

What people dont understand is we DO need a POINT GUARD!!! What happens if Derek Fisher or Jordan Farmar go down? Then what? We DO need a PG...and who better than Shaun Livingston? The guy has TOO much upside to pass up....i would give him a guaranteed deal at 2.5 mil (we gave MIHM that frickin money for christs sake!)....give him SOMETHING!!!! The guy can easily be our starting PG if he's healthy no questions asked!!!!

I dont care what it takes....GET THIS GUY IN PURPLE N GOLG!!!!
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Postby therealdeal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:39 am

FabFourLakers wrote:What people dont understand is we DO need a POINT GUARD!!! What happens if Derek Fisher or Jordan Farmar go down? Then what? We DO need a PG...and who better than Shaun Livingston? The guy has TOO much upside to pass up....i would give him a guaranteed deal at 2.5 mil (we gave MIHM that frickin money for christs sake!)....give him SOMETHING!!!! The guy can easily be our starting PG if he's healthy no questions asked!!!!

I dont care what it takes....GET THIS GUY IN PURPLE N GOLG!!!!


Yes we do need a backup PG, thats what we brought Yue from China for. Shaun Livingston may never be what he was, whats his upside? why would we give ANOTHER BAD CONTRACT? Mihm's contract sucks! why give out another one? no offense, but thats completely idiotic
no ones starting over Fisher until Fish decides he wants the bench, so get over Livingston, let another team try it
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Postby Kou on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:00 am

If the worst happened then we'd just slide sasha over to PG.
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Postby KB24 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:05 am

FabFourLakers wrote:What people dont understand is we DO need a POINT GUARD!!! What happens if Derek Fisher or Jordan Farmar go down? Then what? We DO need a PG...and who better than Shaun Livingston? The guy has TOO much upside to pass up....i would give him a guaranteed deal at 2.5 mil (we gave MIHM that frickin money for christs sake!)....give him SOMETHING!!!! The guy can easily be our starting PG if he's healthy no questions asked!!!!

I dont care what it takes....GET THIS GUY IN PURPLE N GOLG!!!!


1. I agree that we should and could give him a shot
2. chances of him being healthy is pretty much zero, he will need at LEAST one more year to be where he was before the injury and even that is a long shot.

so its a no risk and high reward situation for us and we should do it but if we do not, its still nothing to get upset about.
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Postby LakersN4 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:03 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:What people dont understand is we DO need a POINT GUARD!!! What happens if Derek Fisher or Jordan Farmar go down? Then what? We DO need a PG...and who better than Shaun Livingston? The guy has TOO much upside to pass up....i would give him a guaranteed deal at 2.5 mil (we gave MIHM that frickin money for christs sake!)....give him SOMETHING!!!! The guy can easily be our starting PG if he's healthy no questions asked!!!!

I dont care what it takes....GET THIS GUY IN PURPLE N GOLG!!!!
You can't compare Mihm & Shaun simply based on the positions they play. In a league where Biedrens & Bogut can get near max money, you're always going to be overpaying for a 7 footer.

I'm not too sure about bringing in Shaun simply because of the injury risk.. With our medical staff, the guys career will end before we see him on the floor. A guy I wouldn't mind taking a chance on, however.. Is kirk snyder
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Postby Indianballer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:29 pm

Shaun Livingston and Bynum for the future that would be amazing. If it cost 3 million dollars bring this guy in for two reasons.

1.) Shaun knows he's not 100% he even says he's 75% in this link. So if he knows that he might need time but still wants to play basketball why not join the Lakers who offer limited playing, as well as time to recover and while playing for a championship team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj7XCO_J ... re=related

2.) This will lite a fire under Farmar's butt so that he can improve his game as well. Plus we do need a point guard and Lvingston fits the role perfectly.

This guy still has the potential to be the next magic why would you not offer him a 3 million dollar contract. Also Sun Yue is bulls**t he's got no chance of making it the NBA he's there to help the Lakers make more money.

Imagine this line-up and tell me it's a bad idea.

Livingston
Bryant
Odom
Gasol
Bynum

That would be unstoppable!!!!
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Postby Alleyhoops on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:32 pm

Indianballer wrote:.....
1.) Shaun knows he's not 100% he even says he's 75% in this link. So if he knows that he might need time but still wants to play basketball why not join the Lakers who offer limited playing, as well as time to recover and while playing for a championship team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj7XCO_J ... re=related

.....This guy still has the potential to be the next magic why would you not offer him a 3 million dollar contract.....

See: Chris Mihm
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Postby kidvideo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:37 pm

I think Farmar needs competition.

Adding J-Critt really had Farmar on fire to start last season.

His game dropped off considerably after we got Pau and let Critt go.
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Postby therealdeal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:23 pm

kidvideo wrote:I think Farmar needs competition.

Adding J-Critt really had Farmar on fire to start last season.

His game dropped off considerably after we got Pau and let Critt go.


true but thats why we have Yue signed, especially because of the hype around him, im looking for Farmar to come out fired up about his future.
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Postby chiragronvelia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:23 pm

The lakers already have to many guards and now they have signed joe crawford.
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Postby SignPippenNow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:48 pm

Art Thompson III must be President of Livingston's fan club or something. He writes something once or twice a week and I have yet to see any indication LA is interested.
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Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:35 am

oh great...now a team in our division is gonna pick him up....watch Livingston revive his career in GS and then everyone will be kicking themselves on WHY we didnt pick him up! I dont get it...i KNOW we can win a championship without this guy...but why not take a chance to make our team even BETTER than it already is? We KNOW Fisher isnt gonna be our starting PG forever...Farmar eventually will take over....but who is our back up PG? who is gonna be farmar's competition? That will enable Farmar to get LAZY and not work on his game....we definitely need another young PG to light up farmar again!

Oh welll...let GS enjoy the fruits of Livingston if he pans out like we all thought....

and AlleyHoops...see Chris Mihm? Chris Mihm had an ANKLE injury...he's just a girl....ChrisTINA mihm...livingston had a LEGIT injury....
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Postby LakersN4 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:03 am

I don't agree with the whole Farmars game dropped off once he didn't have competition argument.

Farmar's game dropped off, along with Fisher(especially on D) when Bynum went down. Pau gets his blocks but overall he's far too soft to be intimidating down low. When you lose your defensive anchor, Your guards can't play their man as tight anymore. We went from guys not even WANTING to drive because of how many shots Bynum altered, to oh look, there's 7 feet of oh noez let me find a place to hide under the rack. Let me go dunk on his head.


The same thing happened in chicago when they got rid of ben wallace.. All of a sudden all the people who said Kirk Hinrich was a great defender started to look a little silly..

Once AB is back Jordan will do just fine..
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Postby therealdeal on Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:10 am

FabFourLakers wrote:oh great...now a team in our division is gonna pick him up....watch Livingston revive his career in GS and then everyone will be kicking themselves on WHY we didnt pick him up! I dont get it...i KNOW we can win a championship without this guy...but why not take a chance to make our team even BETTER than it already is? We KNOW Fisher isnt gonna be our starting PG forever...Farmar eventually will take over....but who is our back up PG? who is gonna be farmar's competition? That will enable Farmar to get LAZY and not work on his game....we definitely need another young PG to light up farmar again!

Oh welll...let GS enjoy the fruits of Livingston if he pans out like we all thought....

and AlleyHoops...see Chris Mihm? Chris Mihm had an ANKLE injury...he's just a girl....ChrisTINA mihm...livingston had a LEGIT injury....


then again he can come back and be a complete flop and everyone who said "we should be Livingston" will look silly. we took a lot of chances the last few years, we don't need anymore. Besides, to fire up Farmar we picked up Sun right? don't try and say he's just for show, because he DOES show potential even if people don't want to admit it. And besides, when Fish moves off the starting lineup he becomes a solid man off the bench. Good deal i think.

we don't need Livingston
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Postby DANNY DANNY on Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:09 am

god shammgod has a better chance of making the team
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