Rumor: Lakers looking to keep Odom, sign a FA from a list

Postby leakbrewergator on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:34 pm

Weezy wrote:
TIME wrote:
Weezy wrote:Our FO disappoints once again


You mean the front office that drafted Bynum, kept Kobe, acquired Ariza for Cook, and Pau for Kwame? That disappointing FO? :man3:


All I meant was that if this is true they are going to back to their old mentality. Last year was great, Ariza, Pau, and all that, but if we're yet again going to stick Odom in a new position and see how it pans out instead of getting a proven SF for him then yes I'm disappointed. To me that's standing still when moving forward is needed. I didn't say they suck or I hate them, just that they will be disappointing me like they did in in 05/06 and 06/07 when our starting PG was Smush and our starting Center was Kwame, yeah, that disappointing FO.


Wouldn't a step forward be getting Bynum back for the whole season.
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Postby TIME on Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:46 am

Weezy wrote:
TIME wrote:
Weezy wrote:Our FO disappoints once again


You mean the front office that drafted Bynum, kept Kobe, acquired Ariza for Cook, and Pau for Kwame? That disappointing FO? :man3:


All I meant was that if this is true they are going to back to their old mentality. Last year was great, Ariza, Pau, and all that, but if we're yet again going to stick Odom in a new position and see how it pans out instead of getting a proven SF for him then yes I'm disappointed. To me that's standing still when moving forward is needed. I didn't say they suck or I hate them, just that they will be disappointing me like they did in in 05/06 and 06/07 when our starting PG was Smush and our starting Center was Kwame, yeah, that disappointing FO.


Oh sure, play the Smush + Kwame card. Ok, I give up, you win. :mhihi:
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Postby kray28 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:24 pm

JSM wrote:Bonzi, Posey, or Najera?

Ugh. I'll take Najera.


As much as it makes my skin crawl to suggest this....but from that list, you have to take Posey.
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Postby nosebleedbum on Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:30 pm

* Despite a few reports to the contrary, the Lakers aren’t looking to move forward Lamar Odom. Lakers insiders say the team would prefer to keep the lineup intact and see what happens with a healthy Andrew Bynum at center. They feel that’s all they’ll need to win a championship.

* Instead, the Lakers will likely try to sign a veteran who can come off the bench without trading one of their key parts. They are said to be looking at free agents such as Eduardo Najera (Denver), Bonzi Wells (New Orleans) and James Posey, who just helped Boston beat L.A. for the title.


The bold part is disturbing. If true, Complacency has already set in. Alwasy have to work to improve yourself. Bynum' return helps alot, but we can't count on other teams not getting help themselves. In case we ever meet the Celts again, Perkins owns Bynum. and it still leaves us with 2 deficiencies - SF and PG. Posey would be nice but Artest is the real prize here. Sign him and we're good. Najera has his strong points which could be useful in situations. Wells, not sure how he fits in the offense. And his D is just average IMO.
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Postby BB on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:18 pm

nosebleedbum wrote:The bold part is disturbing. If true, Complacency has already set in. Alwasy have to work to improve yourself. Bynum' return helps alot, but we can't count on other teams not getting help themselves. In case we ever meet the Celts again, Perkins owns Bynum. and it still leaves us with 2 deficiencies - SF and PG. Posey would be nice but Artest is the real prize here. Sign him and we're good. Najera has his strong points which could be useful in situations. Wells, not sure how he fits in the offense. And his D is just average IMO.

It's disturbing that they think that we can win a title with a SF who is either a streaky shooter in Radmanovic with no defense or one who isn't a shooter at all in Odom. Odom will get killed by Pierce defensively too. It's pretty easy to say that the Celtics will be in the Finals next year. They will just crowd the paint again and force our PG or SF to miss long jumpers. Posey would be nice, but I don't see why he'd leave the Celtics right now. I wish Odom would just get a jumper, but really, people who expect him to change his game when he's 30 are silly.
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Postby mapabu1 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:55 pm

I'm starting to think this is the route they want to take. They would like to sign an Artest or Posey and keep Lamar and wait until the the trade deadline and then move him
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Postby Jajwa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:53 pm

More likely they prefer to get Artest and will attempt to do so but he's the only one they'll go out and try to get. They are going to seriously try and establish Odom at the 2 in the triangle playing along side Gasol with Kobe out at the 3. It's the best plan if you keep Odom overall. However Odom must lose weight and gain quickness to something like 225 pounds.

Defensively I'm not really that afraid of Odom at the 3 considering that the improving Ariza should be right behind him ready to go at a moment's notice. However it's that 3 point shot that worries me.

Apparently they believe he can hit that jumper. If that's the plan then it's time they re-sign their guys, go out and get a good backup big man and go from there into the season.

Note: For all the hatred thrown Lamar's way as far as defending 3s, Lamar has always shown good numbers at the SF position defensively since 2002.

Considering that he'll be practicing that especially hard this year, losing weight to play that spot, and will have a monster front line backing him up I see no reason to believe that Odom defensively will be a problem. The lateral quickness non-sense is a bit silly since he's not that slow from side to side that he can't challenge guys like Pierce. I don't have that much fear of him in this aspect of the game.

It's his set jumper that scares me. It'll be nice to be able to run the pick and roll with him passing or driving from the 2. It's just I pray that he improves that set jumper so that teams do not sag off of him.

I see Trevor Ariza as the backup option all in all this year just in case Lamar fails.
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Postby L4L on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:11 pm

Odom doesn't have problems moving side to side?

Tex Winters has been on record saying that Odom's defensive slide-step is one of the worst he's ever seen.

As far as the jumper goes, it's a lost cause. His form is terrible. The elbow often flies. He fades on wide open shots and he still doesn't take shots in rhythm. Unless he gets into the gym this off-season and establishes serious, unwavering confidence (something I've never seen in Lamar even in his rebounding) then there is no way we can rely on a notoriously poor clutch performer to perform in an area where he is notoriously poor.
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Postby Jajwa on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:36 pm

L4L wrote:Odom doesn't have problems moving side to side?

Tex Winters has been on record saying that Odom's defensive slide-step is one of the worst he's ever seen.

As far as the jumper goes, it's a lost cause. His form is terrible. The elbow often flies. He fades on wide open shots and he still doesn't take shots in rhythm. Unless he gets into the gym this off-season and establishes serious, unwavering confidence (something I've never seen in Lamar even in his rebounding) then there is no way we can rely on a notoriously poor clutch performer to perform in an area where he is notoriously poor.


It's not his foot speed that's poor it's the fact that he doesn't look like he's ever done it. The stats would say that even with that he's still been defensively good. FAR better than any of our SFs.

As for the jumper I never said it would be easy. I'm not in even the group who supports keeping Odom. All I said is that that's what it will take.
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Postby BB on Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:56 am

Jajwa, Chris Paul has great defensive stats, does that make him a great defensive player at his position? His defense is subpar, same as Odom's.

And yes, Odom has a problem moving laterally. L4L is right.
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Postby Jajwa on Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:45 pm

If you produce that's how you play. The stats I'm talking about have nothing to do with what you're thinking. They've got nothing to do with steals, blocks etc..
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Postby L4L on Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:58 am

Defensive statistics are automated on 82games.com and thus highly unreliable for wings on teams that employ a lot of switching (ahem, us). Odom does a fine job of making most SFs shoot the ball. Problem being, if they can shoot, he lets them shoot the ball (Prince and Deng). He has a tendency to get BURNED off the ball as well. He helps far too much and you can't do that on the perimeter. He's not Scottie Pippen. He can't recover that fast.

The things it would take for Odom to become that quality fit are very, very hard to acquire in one summer if not entirely impossible (the likely scenario).
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Postby Jajwa on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:05 am

Ya I'm starting to get the feeling as well. At worst he may end up being the backup PF.

If he does so then I'd rather just deal him and be done with it (send him to Cleveland for an expiring, Hickson as our new backup PF, and a maybe a first rounder).

I just can't see a fit for him at SF and even though we disagree about him defensively (yes he's gets burnt but considering his length and with some strong practice I still see him being an overall average to above average defender), it's really irrelevant. He's just not going to work offensively. He never has, I seriously doubt he will now.

He'd be a fantastic fit in NY and Cleveland. Even if we don't trade for Tayshaun Prince I still think he should be dealt or he's going to have to accept a backup PF role (which he isn't all that great in anyway).
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Postby L4L on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:17 am

I agree about Odom as an overall defender. However, his play is completely dictated by match-ups. He can go from a good defender to a very, very poor one depending on who we are playing that night. A player like Carmelo Anthony? I have a decent level of confidence in Odom's ability to guard him at a commendable clip. A Richard Jefferson type player? Lamar will get toasted IMHO.

Absolutely agree on Odom being a terrific fit in NY. If I was Cleveland, I wouldn't like the fit. Personally, I believe you have to compliment LeBron with 3 shooters and a center with tremendous finishing ability. In that fashion, they can milk LeBron's unstoppable PnR play on nearly every possession.
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Postby Jajwa on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:22 am

So what do you expect to happen really?

Go into TC and find out that yes in fact Odom cannot work at the 3 (or 2 or whatever they want to call it) and basically give up on him for another expiring plus a pick, regulate him to PF, or trade him for a less talented SF plus an expiring?
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Postby L4L on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:27 am

The tried and true Odom front:
1) FO will claim they like what they have.
2) FO will secretly shop Odom around the league to get a feeler on his value.
3) No one will offer what they believe he's worth.
4) The Lakers go into camp and experiment with Odom at yet another slot.

Problem being, this year, Odom has finally reached the last year of his contract.

I expect Lamar to be a Laker when training camp rolls around. I expect Lamar to remain a Laker until the deadline. If at that point, the 678th Lamar experiment has failed, I believe he will be liquidated for assets. By that I mean, I expect he'd be dealt for a role player, $$$ relief, and a future pick. If the team plays well, I expect management to stick it out and play for a ring with the core they have. At the end of the season, they'll make him a modest offer. If we win a ring, he may choose to comeback at a reduced price. If not, we'll more than likely S&T him for a small package under his current market value.
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Postby Jajwa on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:29 am

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Exactly what I expected.

I wish we could just get the Pistons to send Prince, that would make my day.
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Postby Armani on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:36 am

L4L wrote:The tried and true Odom front:
1) FO will claim they like what they have.
2) FO will secretly shop Odom around the league to get a feeler on his value.
3) No one will offer what they believe he's worth.
4) The Lakers go into camp and experiment with Odom at yet another slot.

Problem being, this year, Odom has finally reached the last year of his contract.

I expect Lamar to be a Laker when training camp rolls around. I expect Lamar to remain a Laker until the deadline. If at that point, the 678th Lamar experiment has failed, I believe he will be liquidated for assets. By that I mean, I expect he'd be dealt for a role player, $$$ relief, and a future pick. If the team plays well, I expect management to stick it out and play for a ring with the core they have. At the end of the season, they'll make him a modest offer. If we win a ring, he may choose to comeback at a reduced price. If not, we'll more than likely S&T him for a small package under his current market value.


agreed :bow:
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Postby Lakernation2416 on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:42 am

hopefully we get artest..
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Postby Jajwa on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:44 am

Otherwise it's going to be a very long and boring summer.

Be nice if in TC they just give up on this stupid idea of Odom at SF and just make a move already. Prince/Battier I really don't care. The opportunities I think are right there waiting.
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Postby Laker Jam on Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:35 pm

BB wrote:
nosebleedbum wrote:The bold part is disturbing. If true, Complacency has already set in. Alwasy have to work to improve yourself. Bynum' return helps alot, but we can't count on other teams not getting help themselves. In case we ever meet the Celts again, Perkins owns Bynum. and it still leaves us with 2 deficiencies - SF and PG. Posey would be nice but Artest is the real prize here. Sign him and we're good. Najera has his strong points which could be useful in situations. Wells, not sure how he fits in the offense. And his D is just average IMO.

It's disturbing that they think that we can win a title with a SF who is either a streaky shooter in Radmanovic with no defense or one who isn't a shooter at all in Odom. Odom will get killed by Pierce defensively too. It's pretty easy to say that the Celtics will be in the Finals next year. They will just crowd the paint again and force our PG or SF to miss long jumpers. Posey would be nice, but I don't see why he'd leave the Celtics right now. I wish Odom would just get a jumper, but really, people who expect him to change his game when he's 30 are silly.


Are you kidding me? Even if Pierce gets into the lane next season, he’s not going to get the same easy looks at the basket he got this year. Bynum will be right there now, and in case you forgot, he’s a huge presence defensively in the paint. He blocks shots, but he also deters players from even trying to shoot to close to the basket, so he tends to force the opponent into staying on the perimeter. More over, much of Boston’s success came because they out-rebounded us at key stretches. Those offensive and defensive rebounds they were often grabbing at will? They won’t be getting all of those with two 7'1" players and a 3rd with arms so long that he may as well be another 7 footer. In fact, WE’LL be the ones out-rebounding opponents, which will ignite our own fast break, put their defense on its heels and get them into foul trouble. Beyond that, the 2 guys up front who are both 7'1", will enable us to just throw the ball up high on offense resulting in easier looks at the basket.

Bynum next to Gasol up front is going to make a huge difference on this team on both sides of the ball. Can’t believe how over-reactive so many fans are. We were 2 wins away from winning a title with a young and inexperience group of guys, and with our 3rd best player (who also happens to be our defensive anchor) sitting on the pine. This team doesn’t need a huge make over, and we certainly don’t need to be rushing to make bad deals, just because fans are worried about complacency. “Complacency” is not what this is about. It’s about patience to see what we’ve got on this team when healthy and with our big man coming back into the fold.

Heck, we wouldn’t even have made it to the finals if the Lakers had listened to all the fan “experts” declarations that certain guys had to go. Well, most of those same guys became key contributors to a deep playoff run.

Also, Odom isn't the only guy who stunk it up in the Finals. Most of the team did. Beyond that, he was a key part of our getting to the Finals in the first place, so it would be nice if fans stop acting as though all he did was take up a roster spot. We don't get that far without Lamar, especially considering the all the injuries we suffered =and our ability to plug him in virtually anywhere.
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Postby Jajwa on Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:13 pm

Even though L4L and I disagree on Lamar's effectiveness at SF defensively, most of the board who study the triangle, know it's benefits and its requirements will be the first to tell you that the offensive end of the game is what really will hurt.

For L.A. to truly be unbeatable they MUST find a SF who has is good at everything essentially. He doesn't have to be an all-star in any aspect of the game. He should be however a poor man's Scottie Pippen in some ways. Hell he could be a SG/SF like Michael Finley and it will still change the way we play. The tall front court is nice but what I'd prefer would be Odom off the bench at 20 mpg at PF, in a four man rotation rather than Odom playing the SF spot.
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Postby Lakerjones on Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:19 pm

L4L wrote:The tried and true Odom front:
1) FO will claim they like what they have.
2) FO will secretly shop Odom around the league to get a feeler on his value.
3) No one will offer what they believe he's worth.
4) The Lakers go into camp and experiment with Odom at yet another slot.

Problem being, this year, Odom has finally reached the last year of his contract.

I expect Lamar to be a Laker when training camp rolls around. I expect Lamar to remain a Laker until the deadline. If at that point, the 678th Lamar experiment has failed, I believe he will be liquidated for assets. By that I mean, I expect he'd be dealt for a role player, $$$ relief, and a future pick. If the team plays well, I expect management to stick it out and play for a ring with the core they have. At the end of the season, they'll make him a modest offer. If we win a ring, he may choose to comeback at a reduced price. If not, we'll more than likely S&T him for a small package under his current market value.


Completely agree as well! Great post. :bow: :bow: :bow:
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Postby L4L on Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:53 pm

The quintessential triangle player is the player who has mastered the key offensive fundamentals of basketball: shooting, passing, dribbling and the underemployed post-up game.

Unfortunately, this team also needs a serious dose of defensive ability and athleticism.

Finding an athlete who can shoot, pass, dribble, and post-up is incredibly difficult. Wait, AND he has to play defense? Nearly an impossible task. There needs to be a sacrifice somewhere.

In my opinion, this should be our priority level, in a prospective SF, when it comes to each aforementioned quality:
1) Defense
2) Shooting
3) Athleticism
4) Dribbling

On this team, the 3 man is most often a finisher - whether it be from the perimeter or inside off a ball cut. While basic passing is always important in basketball, and especially in the triangle, I believe it is a quality we can overlook with numerous facilitators already present on the team: Walton, Fisher, Bryant, and Gasol (all can facilitate the offense from various locations). With our front court, and the best rebounding 2 man in the league today, getting on the boards is not a major issue to address here. As far as the post game goes, there simply is no room on the block assuming Bynum, Kobe, and Gasol are all healthy next year.

You want to find the perfect fit for L.A. at the 3? Start with players who possess qualities 1 and 2 from the list above. I think you'll find out exactly how RARE that particular package is.

Is it for that reason, only in part, that I do not expect Odom to be dealt. What they want is extremely rare, extremely valuable, and Odom's contract situation only appeals to a certain brand of team which limits trading partners.

BUT! We can always dream. :mhihi:
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Postby BB on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:06 am

I'll make my Odom analysis right now. First of all, Odom at the SF worries me big time. He has no jumpshot so the opposing team will probably sag in the paint off him that making driving really hard. It probably won't be such a problem until we will play some really good defensive teams ala the Celtics.

Now, stop with the mismatch crap. Stop overrating Odom's abilities. Yes, he is a good ball handler, but he is unable to go to the right. He always goes to his left and never squares up when he goes for a layup. Am I the only person around to notice these things?! His defensive lateral movement is really subpar. Boston exploited these things and a lot of teams will probably do the same.

I can name you a lot of players who will blow by Odom easily. Prince, Melo, Lebron, Pierce are some of them for instance. Now, Kobe has too much mileage now to do everything and even if I'm not someone who looks for excuses for him all the time, we really need a perimeter defensive stopper. We can't have him play all the important roles and do all the momentum changing things because that's impossible.

Now, another myth is that Odom will demand double teams. He will not. Kobe will demand the most attention, while Odom's player will just sag off him making doubling Kobe easier, while keeping an eye on sagging in the paint. By the way, when did Odom demanded a double team? I never saw this guy doubled in my whole life.
Last edited by BB on Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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