LO Trade Bait This Summer? (Sun-Sentinel p.16)

Postby bayarealakersfan on Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:21 pm

Odom is staying imo... At least I hope so... :man4:
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Postby L4L on Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:50 pm

I agree with everything VentiQuattro has said in this thread.

knm, it's called fan speculation for a reason. I know you are the self-appointed CL whip cracker, but if we simply said, "Leave everything to the men upstairs, NEVER ask questions, NEVER speculate, and NEVER DARE to have your own ideas," then this forum wouldn't exist in the first place.
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Postby spitty on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 pm

I want some defnseive guys. We don't need to be able to score 120 points to win. We need to make this team win games with defnse. Maybe guys like josh smith and artest would be good. I wouldn't mind hinrich either as he is ideal for Triangle. Maybe deal that gets Artest and hinrich on the lakers involving lamar and farmar.
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Postby Shadow on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:32 pm

Why are people in love with Mike Miller? I honestly would not want to trade Odom or see him leave, but if the Lakers were to do that, the player i'd consider trading him for would be Gerald Wallace.
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Postby LosAngelesLove on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:47 pm

mapabu1 wrote:Hinrich's deal is front-loaded so he makes less money each year and while he has struggled so dis Lamar until we got Gasol.


Hinrich is a Career .414 shooter which is exactly the range he is shooting at this season. This isn't a case of him struggling this season, it is a case of him being an overrated overpaid player.

Famar is shooting .460 this season and is still developing as a player. He is speedy and has great hops, bottomline is he is a great young athlete and great athletes can grow into good defenders with work. I can't imagine trading a player of odom's value plus his exp contract for a point guard with a nasty contract who is inferior to and, not to mention Six years older, than the young point who is sitting on our bench today
Last edited by LosAngelesLove on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby L4L on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:57 pm

eFG% on jump-shots:
Hinrich
2007-2008: 45.0%
2006-2007: 49.9%
2005-2006: 46.2%
2004-2005: 45.3%
2003-2004: 48.4%

Fish is near 55 eFG%.

That's called balancing skill sets.
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Postby Venti Quattro on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:00 pm

LosAngelesLove wrote:point guard with a nasty contract who is inferior to the young point who is sitting on our bench today


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Postby LosAngelesLove on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:09 pm

L4L wrote:eFG% on jump-shots:
Hinrich
2007-2008: 45.0%
2006-2007: 49.9%
2005-2006: 46.2%
2004-2005: 45.3%
2003-2004: 48.4%

Fish is near 55 eFG%.

That's called balancing skill sets.


I don't know if you meant famar, but
Famar is also at 55.0 eFG%
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Postby EQualizer on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:37 pm

isn't it kinda weird though, that once odom is lower priority player (3rd option) he puts up more points, rebounds, etc.

there's no way this team wants to lose that length, and that ability to grab rebounds

a lot of the lapses in the lakers defense could be fixed by just having the players be less lazy

sure penetration leads to defensive breakdowns, but if lakers were smarter on rotations, communicated better, and made the EFFORT to put their hands in their men's faces, AND, remembered the player that they are guarding and read the freaking scouting reports then i think it solves a lot of the defensive issues

too often it seems as though this team has no idea whatsoever who they're playing against and the tendencies the guys they are defending have

for example, when they go into games with guys that are 3 point shooters, they should REMEMBER that, too many times it seems as if they're daring guys that have existed in the NBA purely for their 3-ball to shoot it
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Postby A Rush on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:39 pm

spitty wrote:I want some defnseive guys. We don't need to be able to score 120 points to win. We need to make this team win games with defnse. Maybe guys like josh smith and artest would be good. I wouldn't mind hinrich either as he is ideal for Triangle. Maybe deal that gets Artest and hinrich on the lakers involving lamar and farmar.


I agree it's all about defense. I guess most haven't noticed that even with Lamar playing out of his skin, we struggled to beat Dallas with a hobbling Dirk at home. Again, Lamar is a stat and flash guy, not an impact guy. He's a guy who puts up great stats while you barely win or lose. If we want to have a team like Boston has, a team which can absolutely dominate on D, lamar has no future here.

And while tarding Lamar for Hinrich and Nocioni sounds great to me, there is no way in hell Buss approves that trade as we'd be geting more salary in return (long-term salary at that). No way that happens. I'd be happy with Nocioni + a resigned Duhon (at 4 mil per year) + Chicago's 1st rounder. Or better yet, trading Lamar + farmar for Nocioni, Duhon, Sefolosa and the 1st rounder.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:48 pm

A Rush wrote:Or better yet, trading Lamar + farmar for Nocioni, Duhon, Sefolosa and the 1st rounder.


I'd give my middle nut for that package, but I highly doubt it. Chicago is going to have a top-10 pick.
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Postby Xepa on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:53 pm

knm131 wrote:
Xepa wrote:Vaheblings has access to tehse type of people, so I believe
the remarks made by this thread by the way.

i have been thinking about this more, and I just thought I'd
throw something out there. :man10:

Marbury (expiring) + NY pick for Lamar Odom, Luke Walton,
(filler here).

Ehh, just my speculative .02


May I ask, if Odom is an expiring worth $14M and Marbury is an expiring worth $20M ... why would New York take on Luke's salary, give up a draft pick, AND lose $6M in expiring salary?

Exactly what does New York get from this deal? In other words, if you were New York, aren't you better off allowing Marbury's salary to expire, AND keeping your draft pick?!!?


From what knowledge is known in this thread (we want
a high draft pick) and the list of teams with high draft
picks, the Knicks seem like the types that would go for
the player now, as crowds aren't in favor of a long rebuilding
process. Lamar Odom gives the Knicks everything they've
been missing these years with rebounding and intangibles,
and in the East Coast he'd have an inside presence too
(he posted a lot in Miami).

We may hate Luke, but a lot of that is exaggerated. For a
team filled with selfish chuckers, someone like Luke may
be the glue guy to get them playing team ball together. No
off court issues too, which is nice.

Why would they trade their pick? Well, there's a lot of
expirings going around in the league next year and not
a lot of people would want to take on a Marbury expiring
as the centerpiece of a deal, and NY loves their young guys
in Lee and Nate.

Just my .02
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Postby L4L on Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:33 pm

LosAngelesLove wrote:I don't know if you meant famar, but
Famar is also at 55.0 eFG%


Farmar is at 52.6 eFG% on jump shots.

Both Fisher and Farmar have been very good shooters who play little defense. Farmar shows the athleticism and ability to get the rim. Hinrich shows the athleticism and ability to get to the rim, plays defense, and is a decent shooter. Farmar has faded down the stretch and his form would seem to indicate that he can't maintain his earlier level of shooting.
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Postby L4L on Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:44 pm

A Rush wrote:And while tarding Lamar for Hinrich and Nocioni sounds great to me, there is no way in hell Buss approves that trade as we'd be geting more salary in return (long-term salary at that). No way that happens.


While I agree that it still may be a bit too much money, it certainly doesn't ADD salary.

Lamar Odom - 13.2 / 14.5 = 27.7m 2yrs
(possible 5yr - 40m extension) = 67.7m
^^Alternate route of keeping Lamar on a decreased salary extension

Vlade Radman - 5.6 / 6.1 / 6.5 / 6.9 = 25.1m 4yrs
(released on end of contract)
^^Walton is due even more money.

Jordan Farmar - 1.0 / 1.1 / 1.9 = 4m 3yrs
(possible 3yr - 14m extenstion) = 14m
(Second extension 4yr - 20m, first two years to make it 5) = 9m
Total = 23m

total - 115.8m

Kirk Hinrich - 11 / 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8 = 47.5m 5yrs

Andres Nocioni - 8.5 / 8 / 7.5 / 7 / 6.5 = 37.5m 5yrs

total - 85m

Over the long haul, it spreads out the money on the payroll making it easier to pay in terms of luxury tax.

Keep in mind, the first year, the biggest amount for both guys at a combined 18.25 million, will be the easiest to pay because Bynum's extension won't have kicked in. These contracts are decreasing rather than increasing so there's yet another luxury tax benefit down the road.
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Postby crucifixion on Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:06 pm

A Rush wrote:I agree it's all about defense. I guess most haven't noticed that even with Lamar playing out of his skin, we struggled to beat Dallas with a hobbling Dirk at home. Again, Lamar is a stat and flash guy, not an impact guy. He's a guy who puts up great stats while you barely win or lose. If we want to have a team like Boston has, a team which can absolutely dominate on D, lamar has no future here.

And while tarding Lamar for Hinrich and Nocioni sounds great to me, there is no way in hell Buss approves that trade as we'd be geting more salary in return (long-term salary at that). No way that happens. I'd be happy with Nocioni + a resigned Duhon (at 4 mil per year) + Chicago's 1st rounder. Or better yet, trading Lamar + farmar for Nocioni, Duhon, Sefolosa and the 1st rounder.


completely agree :bow: :bow: :bow:

L4L wrote:Keep in mind, the first year, the biggest amount for both guys at a combined 18.25 million, will be the easiest to pay because Bynum's extension won't have kicked in. These contracts are decreasing rather than increasing so there's yet another luxury tax benefit down the road.


Thats a definite advantage we have right now, a salary can be high for one year since Bynum will be paid less next year. So if they can find that right package in which a player they get back actually fills the needs of the team with the right salary, they would do it. It will be tough tho because if hypothetically Lamar agrees to a decrease ($8M) and if the dynamic of the team with Pau-Bynum-Lamar leads to the finals this year, the Lakers would try to sign Lamar to an extension because it might be hard to find a long term replacement for Lamar that would fit the salary structure required. But I'm guess Lamar won't accept FMV extension
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Postby rock0100 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:27 pm

Odom will be traded for Gilbert Arenas and Ron Artest will sign for the MLE. Mark my words. :man1:
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Postby lotus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:16 pm

rock0100 wrote:Odom will be traded for Gilbert Arenas and Ron Artest will sign for the MLE. Mark my words. :man1:


What's your basis for saying this? Or is this just a guess/hope/dream?
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Postby L4L on Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:21 pm

^^Dream would be correct.
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Postby rock0100 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:52 pm

lotus wrote:
rock0100 wrote:Odom will be traded for Gilbert Arenas and Ron Artest will sign for the MLE. Mark my words. :man1:


What's your basis for saying this? Or is this just a guess/hope/dream?


Just a dream. Artest IS crazy enough to take the MLE though.
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Postby knm131 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:12 pm

Xepa wrote:
knm131 wrote:
Xepa wrote:Vaheblings has access to tehse type of people, so I believe
the remarks made by this thread by the way.

i have been thinking about this more, and I just thought I'd
throw something out there. :man10:

Marbury (expiring) + NY pick for Lamar Odom, Luke Walton,
(filler here).

Ehh, just my speculative .02


May I ask, if Odom is an expiring worth $14M and Marbury is an expiring worth $20M ... why would New York take on Luke's salary, give up a draft pick, AND lose $6M in expiring salary?

Exactly what does New York get from this deal? In other words, if you were New York, aren't you better off allowing Marbury's salary to expire, AND keeping your draft pick?!!?


From what knowledge is known in this thread (we want
a high draft pick) and the list of teams with high draft
picks, the Knicks seem like the types that would go for
the player now, as crowds aren't in favor of a long rebuilding
process. Lamar Odom gives the Knicks everything they've
been missing these years with rebounding and intangibles,
and in the East Coast he'd have an inside presence too
(he posted a lot in Miami).

We may hate Luke, but a lot of that is exaggerated. For a
team filled with selfish chuckers, someone like Luke may
be the glue guy to get them playing team ball together. No
off court issues too, which is nice.

Why would they trade their pick? Well, there's a lot of
expirings going around in the league next year and not
a lot of people would want to take on a Marbury expiring
as the centerpiece of a deal, and NY loves their young guys
in Lee and Nate.

Just my .02


Makes no sense for the Knicks (not that they needed sense to make moves mind you as they've made some boneheaded ones).

You mentioned rebounding. Knicks don't need to give up a draft pick for rebounding. They have Zach Randolph for rebounding.

You mentioned intangibles. That's what David Lee brings for them (and NY LOVES LOVES LOVES David Lee).

So, your thinking is that New York's incentive to get Lamar is to, lose $7M in expiring money, lose a very high draft pick, cut the home crowd favorite, David Lee's minutes, so that they can replace have Odom come off the bench for Randolph? Or, so they can have Randolph come off the bench for Odom?

I don't get it at all.

Makes sense for the Lakers but not for everyone else. I mean, kind of like a Sasha for Kevin Durant trade. "Seattle gets an expiring contract to help their move".

Makes no sense for a cellar dweller to trade youth/potential for Odom. It would make ALL the sense in the world for a cellar dweller to trade Odom.

Only a team who believes Odom could make them a winner/contender would be willing to give up a high draft pick and no GM, not even NY's would believe Odom is capable of that.

Sorry.
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Postby vaheblings on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:21 pm

Ok when i wrote this like a couple of days ago i told you i herd LO was gonna get traded right? Well the same person who told me, i saw again last night & i was told, Odom & Mihm (if Mihm picks up his 4 million dollar player option, which he will) are the talks go to the Bucks for Michael Redd & there 1st round pick. And possibly other players. But once again this is what i was told.
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Postby lakerfan2 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:24 pm

vaheblings wrote:Ok when i wrote this like a couple of days ago i told you i herd LO was gonna get traded right? Well the same person who told me, i saw again last night & i was told, Odom & Mihm (if Mihm picks up his 4 million dollar player option, which he will) are the talks go to the Bucks for Michael Redd & there 1st round pick. And possibly other players. But once again this is what i was told.


why is this even a topic now? it's the playoffs.

and no thanks unless their first round pick is a top 3 so we can land a derrick rose.
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Postby theinsanity on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:25 pm

Um, the Bucks barely got a new GM and he's already shopping his franchise player for Odom? I don't buy it.
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Postby yong on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:26 pm

huh?!

michael redd + their first round pick?!!?!

WOW.

i love LO, and he is a better player than redd, as redd's defence is horrendous.

but that high first round pick?

just imagine

LO + mihm for Redd + OJ Mayo

where do I sign?
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Postby lakersforthewin on Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:28 pm

yong wrote:huh?!

michael redd + their first round pick?!!?!

WOW.

i love LO, and he is a better player than redd, as redd's defence is horrendous.

but that high first round pick?

just imagine

LO + mihm for Redd + OJ Mayo

where do I sign?


how are you going to spread PT with Kobe, Redd, Mayo, and Sasha at SG?
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