LO Trade Bait This Summer? (Sun-Sentinel p.16)

Postby BB on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:04 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
kobejon wrote:YOU DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT GET RID OF ODOM UNTIL YOU SEE HOW HE FITS WITH BYNUM AND GASOL

IF ANYTHING, YOU DO NOT TRADE HIM UNTIL MIDSEASON AT THE EARLIEST



Again I ask, what is there to wait and see? It's like saying we should stick Coby Karl at center and see if it works. It obviously won't work. Why? Because basic fundamental basketball says a center should be the tallest guy and can board. Hence there is no point in "waiting to see if he fits."

In the same regards, a SF needs to spread the floor for the PF and C to operate. He needs to be able to hit the midrange, 3 point shoot, slash, and board as well as play defense. Odom cannot do most of those things so how can he fit? An 8 year veteran like him will not develop those skills in one summer either.
Co-sign.
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Postby d33pzone on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:09 pm

^ Artest can do all of those things well. He is a long shot with him saying he wants to stay in sacramento though. Artest would be a dream.
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Postby The Maverick on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:12 pm

I'd want Artest or Jefferson.
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Postby last stand on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:14 pm

The Maverick wrote:I'd want Artest or Jefferson.


jefferson worries me

hes all right defensively all right

and offensively he always had jason kidd and he is really injury prone lately
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Postby gill on Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:44 am

Interesting take by Heisler:

Let's put it this way: With Bynum, it won't be any big deal to the Lakers whether Kendrick Perkins plays.

The issue now is making the pieces fit with one problem position, small forward . . . where Odom would have to go with Bynum at center and Gasol at power forward.

Jackson wants a shooter there badly enough to start his favorite Martian, Vladimir Radmanovic.

The weakest part of Odom's game is shooting, a problem that came home to roost with Garnett backing off him.

Then there's Odom's $14-million salary, as the Lakers assume as much as $90 million in additional salary and luxury tax over the next three seasons with Gasol.

However, from the day they made the trade, the Lakers never thought they would end up paying that much, suggesting they were already thinking of moving Odom.

Indeed, Odom was in their package for Gasol until Memphis owner Michael Heisley took him out, asking for lesser players who afforded more cap relief. Odom then surprised everyone, meshing smoothly with Gasol to give the Lakers twin towers who were wizards with the ball and, according to San Antonio Coach Gregg Popovich, the NBA's best passing team.

If the Lakers had gone on to win a title, with all the good feeling that went with it, they might have given Odom the extension that he's now seeking.

Since they didn't win a title, with the Finals highlighting Odom's limitations in what could be seen as a preview of next season, they'll surely shop him this off-season.


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Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:05 am

I wonder if Mitch will give Odom a chance to prove himself at the 3 spot one more time. Probably not.

I still think that the number one factor that will dictate if/when Odom gets moved is whether or not he will be willing to accept a significant pay cut.

If Odom is some how here past the trading deadline then Laker fans should rejoice because that would mean that he will resign for less than he is probably worth. I dont think Odom wants to stay with the Lakers THAT bad though, but I could be wrong. He's a weirdo if you ask me.
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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:07 am

I've finally found the solution in my best estimation.

Since Ariza will leave that brings my estimated team salary down to about 79m instead of 82m. The Lakers can trade Chris Mihm, Coby Karl and Lamar Odom together in a package to the Kings for Ron Artest, Mikki Moore (6m a year), and SAR (6.5m). That amounts to 17.5m versus 21m coming in. That works with the NBA' s cap rules if I'm not mistaken. The Lakers would thus have a total salary of 83.5m not far off what they would have if Ariza were to stay. On the other hand they've acquired Ron Artest to be the final piece, Mikki Moore a very useful veteran who has little use to a young team like the Kings but plenty to us, and hope that SAR can at least became a useful player this year as a backup PF.

The Kings achievement? They get to deal Odom to a team like the Knicks for pieces such as David Lee, Malik Rose, and Balkman.

The Kings save 16m, gain a young power forward in David Lee, and young defensive stopper in Renaldo Balkman for one year of Ron Artest.

The Lakers next step now that they're at 83.5m is probably to sit still and hope that Farmar can improve in the next few years defensively. Next year they'll have three major expiring pieces in SAR, Mikki Moore, and Derek Fisher. Kobe will step out of his contract and receive a lesser deal over the long term to help the team. If need be the Lakers could also decide during the year to send Jordan Farmar, a re-signed Mbenga or the like, and Radmanovic to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich saving Chicago about 14m or so over the next few years and giving them a suitable PG if they decide to draft Beasley. For now though I'll just put the Artest only team:

PG- Farmar, Fisher, 2nd rounder
SG- Bryant, Vujajic, Newble maybe heck I dono
SF- Artest, Radmanovic, Walton
PF- Gasol, Turiaf, SAR
C- Bynum, Moore, Mbenga
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Postby gill on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:08 am

King Dan wrote:I wonder if Mitch will give Odom a chance to prove himself at the 3 spot one more time. Probably not.

I still think that the number one factor that will dictate if/when Odom gets moved is whether or not he will be willing to accept a significant pay cut.

If Odom is some how here past the trading deadline then Laker fans should rejoice because that would mean that he will resign for less than he is probably worth. I dont think Odom wants to stay with the Lakers THAT bad though, but I could be wrong. He's a weirdo if you ask me.


If they wanted to extend him sooo badly, they would have done so already or at least laid the blueprint for it during the season.

So far, there's no indication they want him back. On the contrary, judging from the article I posted on the previous page, seems like they made up their mind a long time ago since the Pau trade: he's as good as gone.
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Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:14 am

gill wrote:
King Dan wrote:I wonder if Mitch will give Odom a chance to prove himself at the 3 spot one more time. Probably not.

I still think that the number one factor that will dictate if/when Odom gets moved is whether or not he will be willing to accept a significant pay cut.

If Odom is some how here past the trading deadline then Laker fans should rejoice because that would mean that he will resign for less than he is probably worth. I dont think Odom wants to stay with the Lakers THAT bad though, but I could be wrong. He's a weirdo if you ask me.


If they wanted to extend him sooo badly, they would have done so already or at least laid the blueprint for it during the season.

So far, there's no indication they want him back. On the contrary, judging from the article I posted on the previous page, seems like they made up their mind a long time ago since the Pau trade: he's as good as gone.


Which would mean that Odom wouldn't agree to come back cheap. No way anyone would turn away Odom if he signs for cheap. Then again, what would "cheap" be for Lamar anyways?
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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:24 am

8m or so I'd assume.

Better question is, how much is Buss willing to pay to win it all. Artest is available, he's just going to cost quite a bit to get. I'd estimate however that Artest is worth much more than the contracts he can get right now. Something like 12m a year if Gasol is worth 15m.
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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:25 am

You never know but you may see Cleveland also jump into the sweepstakes for Lamar Odom offering cheaper expirings and a first round pick. Now that would be something because it would mean we'd have extra ammo for a far simpler Ron Artest trade.

Try Eric Snow, Damon Jones, and the 19th overall for Lamar Odom. Since Sacramento probably would have simply seen Odom retire, they can instead essentially buy themselves a pick and save some cash.

Now they'll be able to wheel and deal more effectively with teams trying to deal SFs and PGs away.
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Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:19 am

I think Detroit will be a good target for trades for obvious reasons.

Id do a Lamar + Farmar for a Billups package.

When Ron sees that Kobe and Billups would probably be the best 1-2 defensive combo in the league, he would know that his job will be THAT much easier as a Laker and he wont be able to resist signing cheap.

But............thats as pipe as they come. I know.
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Postby Venti Quattro on Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:36 am

Chad Ford, ESPN.com

With the Lakers flaming out in the Finals, it didn't take long for speculation about Lamar Odom to begin. A number of teams covet Odom because of his expiring contract.

I'd expect the Lakers to hear from the Nets (for Richard Jefferson), the Bulls (for Andres Nocioni), the Kings (for Ron Artest) and the Grizzlies (for Mike Miller).


*My bad, I didn't bother to go back and see this was posted earlier*
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Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:43 am

we all know how riley loves Lamar & we also know that Phil loves marion which is the obvious trade talk thus far. my thinking is how about this player in the deal since he is an absolute killer from the perimeter and a young stud.
LO for Haslem & Daquan Cook. not sure if the salaries match but i would love to get that kid Cook out of ohio state if marion isnt coming back.
or better yet can we get haslem,wright & cook?
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Postby BB on Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:50 am

Marion wanted out of Phoenix because he wasn't involved enough in the offense. Why would he come here to be a 3rd/4th option? He also said he wants to stay with the Heat.
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Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:56 am

hollywood swinger wrote:we all know how riley loves Lamar & we also know that Phil loves marion which is the obvious trade talk thus far. my thinking is how about this player in the deal since he is an absolute killer from the perimeter and a young stud.
LO for Haslem & Daquan Cook. not sure if the salaries match but i would love to get that kid Cook out of ohio state if marion isnt coming back.
or better yet can we get haslem,wright & cook?


Marion wants attention and also a big contract. I like Haslem but the other two players you speak of are just too young and they play no defense yet.
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Postby UKUGA on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:25 am

According to Mark Heisler in today's LA Times, the Lakers were set to part with Odom in the Gaol deal; yet, Heisley changed his mind, and asked for "lesser players".

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketbal ... 691.column


"Then there's Odom's $14-million salary, as the Lakers assume as much as $90 million in additional salary and luxury tax over the next three seasons with Gasol.

However, from the day they made the trade, the Lakers never thought they would end up paying that much, suggesting they were already thinking of moving Odom.

Indeed, Odom was in their package for Gasol until Memphis owner Michael Heisley took him out, asking for lesser players who afforded more cap relief. Odom then surprised everyone, meshing smoothly with Gasol to give the Lakers twin towers who were wizards with the ball and, according to San Antonio Coach Gregg Popovich, the NBA's best passing team.
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Postby emplay on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:27 am

tha'ts nothing new - I reported long time ago that it was Miller and Gasol for Kwame, Odom and junk
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Postby 81Kobe on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:22 am

KB8SD wrote:The Lakers got to get rid off Odom and his $15 million dollar expring contract will attract a bunch of team..


Good idea, but wrong execution.

The Lakers need to clear cap space to max out A-Bomb, who will be a restricted free agent in 2009/10.
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The Lakers should trade Lamar Odom for a draft choice.
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Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:14 am

Ok,
Can someone who's in favor of moving LO for Nocioni please explain why it's a good move.

I like Nocioni's hustle but damn, I just looked up his stats and he's got a crap shooting percentage, doesn't score many points and doesn't rebound or assist that well. What is the upside here? You take on a pretty big salary whereas LO is coming to the end of his big pay day. LO on paper looks about 30 % better player than Nocioni. They are the same age, too. Is this just a case of the grass being greener on the other side?

I could see the argument of moving LO for Artest if that's the only way to get Ron Ron here, but that's a big chemistry risk at this moment.

Of course the best possible scenario is Ron coming here of his own volition through opting out. That way he plays WITH Lamar.

But if the front office feels they NEED to move LO then you want an upgrade, not a downgrade. Same goes for Battier IMO. He's a much lesser talent. I think Battier is a better player than Nocioni, but I would not want LO going to Houston. He could be the PF they've been waiting for to get them over the hump. You add his rebounding, passing and versatility to that team with Yao and T Mac and you are asking for trouble. Trading him to playoff team in the West is a no-no. Better not to make a move than do that.

So what are we talking about here? Sure I'd take Gerald Wallace but why on earth would the Bobcats take an older player for a younger star with big upside? They would NEVER do that deal.

LO for Marion might be nice, but Marion wants big money. Buss cannot pay all of those guys.

Maybe I could see LO for Mike Miller - revisiting Memphis. It doesn't really address the defense at the 3 issue, but it sure as hell brings in a dependable and versatile offensive threat to play alongside the big guys. You cannot leave Miller open, period. Mid-range, long distance, the drive. You can't play off him like you can afford to do with Odom. And Miller is a natural 3, unlike Odom who really has had his best success at the 4.

Basically, we'd have the two best players from Memphis' team to go with Kobe (best 2 on the planet), an emerging top 5 center in Bynum, and a seasoned vet who runs the system and knocks down shots in Fish.

Starting lineup:

Bynum
Gasol
Miller
Kobe
Fish

I'll take that. That might be our best possible move at this juncture. Of course Memphis' owner is still pissed off at us for the Gasol trade so I don't see him really wanting to start it up again with us.

I see Miller fitting in here at the 3 much more than Odom. That also leaves us free to ditch Vlad Rad (no need for his inconsistent shooting when you've got a guy who does it better and plays some D as well).

Not sure about salaries. We might have to take on another player as well.
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Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:18 am

Lakerjones wrote:Ok,
Can someone who's in favor of moving LO for Nocioni please explain why it's a good move.

I like Nocioni's hustle but damn, I just looked up his stats and he's got a crap shooting percentage, doesn't score many points and doesn't rebound or assist that well. What is the upside here? You take on a pretty big salary whereas LO is coming to the end of his big pay day. LO on paper looks about 30 % better player than Nocioni. They are the same age, too. Is this just a case of the grass being greener on the other side?

I could see the argument of moving LO for Artest if that's the only way to get Ron Ron here, but that's a big chemistry risk at this moment.

Of course the best possible scenario is Ron coming here of his own volition through opting out. That way he plays WITH Lamar.

But if the front office feels they NEED to move LO then you want an upgrade, not a downgrade. Same goes for Battier IMO. He's a much lesser talent. I think Battier is a better player than Nocioni, but I would not want LO going to Houston. He could be the PF they've been waiting for to get them over the hump. You add his rebounding, passing and versatility to that team with Yao and T Mac and you are asking for trouble. Trading him to playoff team in the West is a no-no. Better not to make a move than do that.

So what are we talking about here? Sure I'd take Gerald Wallace by why on earth would the Bobcats take an older player for a younger star with big upside? They would NEVER do that deal.

LO for Marion might be nice, but Marion wants big money. Buss cannot pay all of those guys.


To me, I don't think the Lakers trade him straight up. I think the Lakers wait for the Bulls to pick and if they take Rose (which they are expected to do) offer Odom for Hinrich AND Nocioni. That's a lot of defensive toughness and it clears a ton of salary off the Bulls cap next summer. They will have Rose and Deng signed up when that huge FA crop hits. Rose/Deng/Wade could be pretty sick.

Nocioni for Odom is NOT a good deal for the Lakers. Nocioni is not worth a pf with Odom's skill set.
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Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:39 am

Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:Ok,
Can someone who's in favor of moving LO for Nocioni please explain why it's a good move.

I like Nocioni's hustle but damn, I just looked up his stats and he's got a crap shooting percentage, doesn't score many points and doesn't rebound or assist that well. What is the upside here? You take on a pretty big salary whereas LO is coming to the end of his big pay day. LO on paper looks about 30 % better player than Nocioni. They are the same age, too. Is this just a case of the grass being greener on the other side?

I could see the argument of moving LO for Artest if that's the only way to get Ron Ron here, but that's a big chemistry risk at this moment.

Of course the best possible scenario is Ron coming here of his own volition through opting out. That way he plays WITH Lamar.

But if the front office feels they NEED to move LO then you want an upgrade, not a downgrade. Same goes for Battier IMO. He's a much lesser talent. I think Battier is a better player than Nocioni, but I would not want LO going to Houston. He could be the PF they've been waiting for to get them over the hump. You add his rebounding, passing and versatility to that team with Yao and T Mac and you are asking for trouble. Trading him to playoff team in the West is a no-no. Better not to make a move than do that.

So what are we talking about here? Sure I'd take Gerald Wallace by why on earth would the Bobcats take an older player for a younger star with big upside? They would NEVER do that deal.

LO for Marion might be nice, but Marion wants big money. Buss cannot pay all of those guys.


To me, I don't think the Lakers trade him straight up. I think the Lakers wait for the Bulls to pick and if they take Rose (which they are expected to do) offer Odom for Hinrich AND Nocioni. That's a lot of defensive toughness and it clears a ton of salary off the Bulls cap next summer. They will have Rose and Deng signed up when that huge FA crop hits. Rose/Deng/Wade could be pretty sick.

Nocioni for Odom is NOT a good deal for the Lakers. Nocioni is not worth a pf with Odom's skill set.


That all makes sense. I see why the Bulls do it, but I don't think Buss wants to take on that salary - at least not until he sees what he has with Odom, Bynum and Gasol.

I don't see a move like that happening unless our big lineup proves to be a disaster. It's just a LOT of salary and no way out of it if it doesn't work. Odom is expiring so there's not much to lose if that experiment doesn't work out.

I also don't see us making the move for Miller until the trade deadline. They will want to see what they've got first before a move. If Ron Ron doesn't opt out same thing. Probably won't see LO moved until the deadline if it's going to happen.
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Postby Radner on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:46 am

Lakerjones, this is really about the future and at the same time preparing for the present.

I really don't think the front office will wait to see how Lamar, Pau, and Drew play together. That time to spectate was this past season. Unfortunately, Drew's return date was tentative and never officially accurate.

I'm sure they know what they have with Lamar's expiring along with the desperation of teams to get rid of salary waste for the crop of future free agents. If the Lakers decided to take Drew (a young prospect) as a pick, one can only infer that's the plan the Lakers are headed.
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Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:22 am

emplay wrote:tha'ts nothing new - I reported long time ago that it was Miller and Gasol for Kwame, Odom and junk


do you agree with me that the lakers need a dynamic pg? i hear all the sf talk and that is great but we will continue to struggle defensively if we cant stop point guards dribble drive kicks. we also need a dynamic point guard to break down the defense after kobe is double to get bynum & pau easy points.
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Postby lotus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:50 am

Odom should have been trade 2 years ago. We'd probably have a championship by now.
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