LO Trade Bait This Summer? (Sun-Sentinel p.16)

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:48 pm

slimjim wrote:
kobejon wrote:YOU DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT GET RID OF ODOM UNTIL YOU SEE HOW HE FITS WITH BYNUM AND GASOL

IF ANYTHING, YOU DO NOT TRADE HIM UNTIL MIDSEASON AT THE EARLIEST


agreed.

I think LO's value will be best at midseason, right before the deadline, and teams are making adjustments for the postseason.

but if he fits in well with gasol/bynum?
why would we trade him?

it's a win/win.

we can potentially get more in return.
we will see how the trio will operate together.


NOt that simple. Just because Gasol is a smart player and was able to step right in and grasp the offense, don't think everyone can. By doing the trade now it gives the Lakers a full training camp with everyone and a chance to build cohesion the entire season as opposed to a couple months.
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:48 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Weezy wrote:Unless we fire Phil and add a coach that runs nothing but pick n roll, why do we need a dynamic PG? What good would Baron or any other playmaking PG be in the triangle? Our offense needs a quality C and a quality SF and above all we need defense.


LO for Hinrich fits a need. I'd love it. Throw in Artest for the MLE or an improved Ariza and I'll be ecstatic.


That's my dream offseason. Heck, if we got Hinrich and Artest, I wouldn't even care about Ariza. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we have 2 MLE contract level sfs as backups and a third isn't going to happen.


We're on the same page. There's not a better team this decade on paper on both sides of the floor than Hinrich/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Bynum with Ariza/Fish/Ronny/Sasha coming off the bench...I just came.


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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:50 pm

That's exactly right.

Artest would need time to mesh into the offense and figure out his new role as the triangle 3 or possibly even as the triangle 2 on the weak side with Gasol.

You can't get Artest or Hinrich mid-season as easily and getting either would upset the offense. The 5 is easy to play mid-season onwards. The rest of the positions are complicated.
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Postby lotus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:05 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
lotus wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
lotus wrote:Odom should have been trade 2 years ago. We'd probably have a championship by now.


That's a silly statement. For all his shortcomings, he was a main reason we got to the Finals this season. Once the Gasol deal was done, we needed Odom at the 4 desperately. Who else starts if we don't have Odom? Ronny?

Anyway, he's probably gone because of his expiring contract and poor fit on this team, but he shouldn't be completely dumped on upon his exit. He did some good things for us too.


Not silly. Laker fans have been hanging on to his so called "potential" since he's been here and he's never lived up to it.

Now you want to say he's the reason we got to the Finals? Well, you can say that about a few players (see Fisher and Gasol).

No one said he's made a zero contribution, but it was obvious that he wasn't going to be there when most needed. I'm not impressed with his box scores when it's based on inconsistent play, and not showing up when it got tough in the Finals and some of the playoffs.


I said he was a main reason, not THE main reason. I agree that you could say that about a number of players.

I'm all moving Odom for the reasons you laid out, but your original statement that we "probably already have won a championship" had we already traded Odom was a silly exaggeration.


Adding "silly" to characterizing my statement is an exaggeration on your part. If Odom had been traded for Artest, or some other mystery player that could be attained for LO's contract money, it is not a stretch to say we would have won the championship this year.

If Artest, and not Odom, were in our starting 5 against Boston, I'm sure that would have made a world of difference. That's a man vs. a stoned out teenager (who is of adult age).
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:08 pm

^Alright, we both exaggerated. I think for the most part we're in agreement for this team moving forward, but you're just a little harder on Lamar than I am.
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Postby wallangong on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:08 pm

lotus wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
lotus wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
lotus wrote:Odom should have been trade 2 years ago. We'd probably have a championship by now.


That's a silly statement. For all his shortcomings, he was a main reason we got to the Finals this season. Once the Gasol deal was done, we needed Odom at the 4 desperately. Who else starts if we don't have Odom? Ronny?

Anyway, he's probably gone because of his expiring contract and poor fit on this team, but he shouldn't be completely dumped on upon his exit. He did some good things for us too.


Not silly. Laker fans have been hanging on to his so called "potential" since he's been here and he's never lived up to it.

Now you want to say he's the reason we got to the Finals? Well, you can say that about a few players (see Fisher and Gasol).

No one said he's made a zero contribution, but it was obvious that he wasn't going to be there when most needed. I'm not impressed with his box scores when it's based on inconsistent play, and not showing up when it got tough in the Finals and some of the playoffs.


I said he was a main reason, not THE main reason. I agree that you could say that about a number of players.

I'm all moving Odom for the reasons you laid out, but your original statement that we "probably already have won a championship" had we already traded Odom was a silly exaggeration.


Adding "silly" to characterizing my statement is an exaggeration on your part. If Odom had been traded for Artest, or some other mystery player that could be attained for LO's contract money, it is not a stretch to say we would have won the championship this year.

If Artest, and not Odom, were in our starting 5 against Boston, I'm sure that would have made a world of difference. That's a man vs. a stoned out teenager (who is of adult age).


i never said i wouldn't trade Odom. with Artest, we probably have the toughness to beat Boston this year. I'm just tired of browsing CL and everywhere i go the new fad is to bash on Lamar like he's the reason we lost in the Finals. our TEAM is the reason we lost. it should be common knowledge that Odom feeds off of other guys. if nobody else is playing well at all, he's not going to lead you to victory. but he's still a great talent and could easily start on a championship team.
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Postby lotus on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:14 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:^Alright, we both exaggerated. I think for the most part we're in agreement for this team moving forward, but you're just a little harder on Lamar than I am.


I agree. And I admit to being overly hard on Odom, Mihm and Luke.

The reason I am hard on Odom is that he's been getting a free ride with the "Potential" tag and I've had enough of it. Plus, he's been in the league long enough to be that player. He's on the downside of his career and fans are still waiting for him to have a breakout year. Magic said such at the beginning of this season. When does that fantasy end?

He either should have been the person they thought he would be at this point in his career, or else you have to move on. If he turns into that player with the next team, then good for that new team. But, this organization is waiting for Odom, Luke and Mihm to be players that it appears they will never be.
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Postby wallangong on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:17 pm

lotus wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:^Alright, we both exaggerated. I think for the most part we're in agreement for this team moving forward, but you're just a little harder on Lamar than I am.


I agree. And I admit to being overly hard on Odom, Mihm and Luke.

The reason I am hard on Odom is that he's been getting a free ride with the "Potential" tag and I've had enough of it. Plus, he's been in the league long enough to be that player. He's on the downside of his career and fans are still waiting for him to have a breakout year. Magic said such at the beginning of this season. When does that fantasy end?

He either should have been the person they thought he would be at this point in his career, or else you have to move on. If he turns into that player with the next team, then good for that new team. But, this organization is waiting for Odom, Luke and Mihm to be players that it appears they will never be.


i won't defend Luke. he's terrible. Mihm i just feel bad. He could have been a great backup before his injury.
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Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:18 pm

wallangong wrote:
lotus wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:^Alright, we both exaggerated. I think for the most part we're in agreement for this team moving forward, but you're just a little harder on Lamar than I am.


I agree. And I admit to being overly hard on Odom, Mihm and Luke.

The reason I am hard on Odom is that he's been getting a free ride with the "Potential" tag and I've had enough of it. Plus, he's been in the league long enough to be that player. He's on the downside of his career and fans are still waiting for him to have a breakout year. Magic said such at the beginning of this season. When does that fantasy end?

He either should have been the person they thought he would be at this point in his career, or else you have to move on. If he turns into that player with the next team, then good for that new team. But, this organization is waiting for Odom, Luke and Mihm to be players that it appears they will never be.


i won't defend Luke. he's terrible. Mihm i just feel bad. He could have been a great backup before his injury.
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Postby CaronKobeConnection on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:20 pm

Trade Between Pacers and Lakers

Lakers Trade
Lamar Odom
maybe a future first or a couple of 2nds...

Pacers Trade
Marquis Daniels
Jeff Foster
Ike Diogu
plus 13 Pick

With the 13th Pick the Lakers select....
Either Deandre Jordan or Danillo Gallinari....
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Postby last stand on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:23 pm

The KOBYNUM ERA wrote:
last stand wrote:and offensively he always had jason kidd and he is really injury prone lately


Odom knows all about being injury prone.

Jefferson is a good slasher/finisher. Shoots better than Odom. Is capable of taking over a game offensively, something Odom has never been able to do.


i dont want odom either
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Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:24 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Weezy wrote:Unless we fire Phil and add a coach that runs nothing but pick n roll, why do we need a dynamic PG? What good would Baron or any other playmaking PG be in the triangle? Our offense needs a quality C and a quality SF and above all we need defense.


LO for Hinrich fits a need. I'd love it. Throw in Artest for the MLE or an improved Ariza and I'll be ecstatic.


That's my dream offseason. Heck, if we got Hinrich and Artest, I wouldn't even care about Ariza. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we have 2 MLE contract level sfs as backups and a third isn't going to happen.


We're on the same page. There's not a better team this decade on paper on both sides of the floor than Hinrich/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Bynum with Ariza/Fish/Ronny/Sasha coming off the bench...I just came.


I think that LO for Billups would beat that team if we're counting on drawing Artest for the MLE. Billups/Kobe/_____/Pau/Bynum is a much bigger draw for Artest than Hinrich/Kobe/_____/Pau/Bynum.

The only issue would be money really since Billups is a bit more expensive. And ofcourse we'd have to hope that Dumar's really does want to shake things up. Probably LO+Farmar for Billups plus fillers where needed/

Either team would be really good though. No doubt.
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Postby last stand on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:26 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Weezy wrote:Unless we fire Phil and add a coach that runs nothing but pick n roll, why do we need a dynamic PG? What good would Baron or any other playmaking PG be in the triangle? Our offense needs a quality C and a quality SF and above all we need defense.


LO for Hinrich fits a need. I'd love it. Throw in Artest for the MLE or an improved Ariza and I'll be ecstatic.


That's my dream offseason. Heck, if we got Hinrich and Artest, I wouldn't even care about Ariza. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we have 2 MLE contract level sfs as backups and a third isn't going to happen.


We're on the same page. There's not a better team this decade on paper on both sides of the floor than Hinrich/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Bynum with Ariza/Fish/Ronny/Sasha coming off the bench...I just came.


i truly think we end up settling for kirk hinrich and andres nocioni for lamar and vlad rad

andrew
pau
nocioni
kobe
hinrich

there are 4 tough guys

and nocioni plays great defense and is a great rebounder at SF
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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:28 pm

That's been the backup plan yes for a little while now. However we're still trying to plan for something even bigger than that that includes Artest which would change the whole team's attitude.
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Postby UKUGA on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:48 pm

emplay wrote:bobcats aren't under the cap


And that's one of the big problems with this country.


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Postby Klewfish on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:04 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Weezy wrote:Unless we fire Phil and add a coach that runs nothing but pick n roll, why do we need a dynamic PG? What good would Baron or any other playmaking PG be in the triangle? Our offense needs a quality C and a quality SF and above all we need defense.


LO for Hinrich fits a need. I'd love it. Throw in Artest for the MLE or an improved Ariza and I'll be ecstatic.


That's my dream offseason. Heck, if we got Hinrich and Artest, I wouldn't even care about Ariza. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we have 2 MLE contract level sfs as backups and a third isn't going to happen.


We're on the same page. There's not a better team this decade on paper on both sides of the floor than Hinrich/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Bynum with Ariza/Fish/Ronny/Sasha coming off the bench...I just came.


I mentioned trading LO for Hinrich in a thread somewhere awhile ago. I definitely think that is a trade the Lakers could benefit from, especially if they could find someway to get Nocioni as well. I don't know how convinced I am that Artest would sign here for the MLE, but he would be a great way to end the offseason if that could happen.
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Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:09 pm

Klewfish wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Weezy wrote:Unless we fire Phil and add a coach that runs nothing but pick n roll, why do we need a dynamic PG? What good would Baron or any other playmaking PG be in the triangle? Our offense needs a quality C and a quality SF and above all we need defense.


LO for Hinrich fits a need. I'd love it. Throw in Artest for the MLE or an improved Ariza and I'll be ecstatic.


That's my dream offseason. Heck, if we got Hinrich and Artest, I wouldn't even care about Ariza. I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we have 2 MLE contract level sfs as backups and a third isn't going to happen.


We're on the same page. There's not a better team this decade on paper on both sides of the floor than Hinrich/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Bynum with Ariza/Fish/Ronny/Sasha coming off the bench...I just came.


I mentioned trading LO for Hinrich in a thread somewhere awhile ago. I definitely think that is a trade the Lakers could benefit from, especially if they could find someway to get Nocioni as well. I don't know how convinced I am that Artest would sign here for the MLE, but he would be a great way to end the offseason if that could happen.


Odom for Hinrich and Nocioni is actually a doable trade from a salary and need perspective. Neither of those players are in the Bulls long term plans when you consider Rose and Deng will be their sf/pg of the future. Noc and Hinrich are just taking up salary space. If they unloaded both of those guys, it is conceivable they could sign both Bosh AND Wade in that huge FA market.
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Postby cmig08 on Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:41 pm

IMHO, I'd keep Odom because he'll be our fourth best player next year.. and when you've got Lamar Odom as your fourth best player on ANY team, you've got a pretty good team..

Defenses will be too busy trying to keep Gasol and Bynum off the paint and forget all about Odom.. I can't wait to see how defenses will try to swarm Kobe now lolz.. it'll be an alleyoop for Drew every time down (you know his catching ability is the complete opposite of Kwame's)..

I say keep Odom, if he decides to ask for too much, THEN ship him and get a lesser player, Odom's not that important to the Lakers anyway.. Big three is Kobe, AB and Gasol..
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Postby last stand on Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:04 pm

cmig08 wrote:IMHO, I'd keep Odom because he'll be our fourth best player next year.. and when you've got Lamar Odom as your fourth best player on ANY team, you've got a pretty good team..

Defenses will be too busy trying to keep Gasol and Bynum off the paint and forget all about Odom.. I can't wait to see how defenses will try to swarm Kobe now lolz.. it'll be an alleyoop for Drew every time down (you know his catching ability is the complete opposite of Kwame's)..

I say keep Odom, if he decides to ask for too much, THEN ship him and get a lesser player, Odom's not that important to the Lakers anyway.. Big three is Kobe, AB and Gasol..


with that logic if we trade for ron artest pau gasol will be our 4th best player and if pau gasol is your 4th best player you are looking at 65+ wins
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Postby LakersN4 on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:19 pm

Of course Ron for the MLE is a no brainer but I'm not for giving up Odom for him, just because he's always a wildcard.

On the floor Ron>Jefferson but will Ron be on the floor?

He just said in that interview today he wants to be treated like a top 5 player in the league.. That doesn't sound like a guy who's willing to play 3rd or possibly even 4th fiddle in our offense..

IMO Jefferson is the best proposed deal for Odom.. Everything we need from a SF he does better than LO.. Outside shooting, defense..

However I wouldn't be opposed to Odom for Hinrich & Noc either if they were willing to take on walton also & throw Gooden or one of their young bigs in..

There's absolutely no way we go into next year at SF with Noc ($8,000,000) Vlade ($6,049,400), Luke ($4,420,000), Trevor (2,911,600)

20+ M per year for a position where we have nothing but role players? No way.. No matter what Lamar won't be the only sf that we get rid of.. Sadly it will probably be Vlade cuz Phil is in love with Luke
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Postby BB on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:40 am

cmig08 wrote:IMHO, I'd keep Odom because he'll be our fourth best player next year.. and when you've got Lamar Odom as your fourth best player on ANY team, you've got a pretty good team..

Defenses will be too busy trying to keep Gasol and Bynum off the paint and forget all about Odom.. I can't wait to see how defenses will try to swarm Kobe now lolz.. it'll be an alleyoop for Drew every time down (you know his catching ability is the complete opposite of Kwame's)..

I say keep Odom, if he decides to ask for too much, THEN ship him and get a lesser player, Odom's not that important to the Lakers anyway.. Big three is Kobe, AB and Gasol..
It's easy. Nobody will defend Odom on the perimeter. The paint will be too crowded for anyone to get a layup and we will die by the jumpshot(of Odom or Fisher).
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:44 am

LakersN4 wrote:Of course Ron for the MLE is a no brainer but I'm not for giving up Odom for him, just because he's always a wildcard.

On the floor Ron>Jefferson but will Ron be on the floor?

He just said in that interview today he wants to be treated like a top 5 player in the league.. That doesn't sound like a guy who's willing to play 3rd or possibly even 4th fiddle in our offense..

IMO Jefferson is the best proposed deal for Odom.. Everything we need from a SF he does better than LO.. Outside shooting, defense..

However I wouldn't be opposed to Odom for Hinrich & Noc either if they were willing to take on walton also & throw Gooden or one of their young bigs in..

There's absolutely no way we go into next year at SF with Noc ($8,000,000) Vlade ($6,049,400), Luke ($4,420,000), Trevor (2,911,600)

20+ M per year for a position where we have nothing but role players? No way.. No matter what Lamar won't be the only sf that we get rid of.. Sadly it will probably be Vlade cuz Phil is in love with Luke


Who says that Artest won't get his points though? Radmanovic averages 8 points per game and Artest will be getting open threes to the point of insanity if he plays here. Artest will average 16 ppg, Gasol about 15 ppg, Bynum a good 13-14 ppg, Kobe about 27 ppg, and the PGs about 22 ppg combined. The team will be producing points as if it's a joke.
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Postby KB24 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 am

Lamar will be shopped around the league all summer and hopefully traded for a better SF...
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Postby Senor Mortgage on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:36 am

Id rather swing Lamar for Heinrich and keep Ariza. Heinrich is arguably the best penetrating defender in the league and has given guys like Wade fits. Combine that with Bynum and out biggest defensive deficiencies are minimized personnel wise.
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:39 am

Senor Mortgage wrote:Id rather swing Lamar for Heinrich and keep Ariza. Heinrich is arguably the best penetrating defender in the league and has given guys like Wade fits. Combine that with Bynum and out biggest defensive deficiencies are minimized personnel wise.


Preach. :bow:

Add the fact that he can shoot the 3 well and is the larger PG that PJ wets his pants over and it seems like a great match.
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