LO Trade Bait This Summer? (Sun-Sentinel p.16)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:14 am

bumrusherer wrote:
Senor Mortgage wrote:Id rather swing Lamar for Heinrich and keep Ariza. Heinrich is arguably the best penetrating defender in the league and has given guys like Wade fits. Combine that with Bynum and out biggest defensive deficiencies are minimized personnel wise.
Why would the Bulls do that?

Kirk would be excellent, dont get me wrong. But I dont see what direction the Bulls would go in if they did that deal.


They have a young core, are probably drafting Rose as their PG of the future (which would make Hinrich and his remaining contract expendable), and would want a large expiring contract like Lamar because Chicago is a great city to attract potential free agents.

That's EXACTLY what the Bulls would want when they're looking to dump Hinrich.
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Postby Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:17 am

I'll do the Hinrich deal only if we get back Nocioni and maybe Gooden.
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Postby bumrusherer on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:17 am

wallangong wrote:
are you serious? the Bulls have no inside presence. while LO is not a post player, he can rebound very well and is better than anything they have at PF. plus, his contract is coming off the books after this season, and with Derrick Rose they have no need to Hinrich's contract. i still think Hinrich is overrated and think we could do better than him. if you include Nocioni, then i'd do that only if Artest is here.

Odom isnt exactly an inside presence. Plus, Gooden averaged 9 boards a game with the Bulls. Now Gooden isnt Odom but from a rebounding standpoint...they are equal when you factor in the minutes.
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:20 am

if we get ron artest without odom there are two guys i'd want to make a deal for

lamar to milwaukee for maurice williams and charlie villanueva

lamar to chicago for kirk hinrich+drew gooden

both trades along with ron artest keep us younger and make us virtually unstoppable
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Postby bumrusherer on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:21 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
They have a young core, are probably drafting Rose as their PG of the future (which would make Hinrich and his remaining contract expendable), and would want a large expiring contract like Lamar because Chicago is a great city to attract potential free agents.

That's EXACTLY what the Bulls would want when they're looking to dump Hinrich.

You make sense but out of all the pipes that are being thrown around. This is the least likely, IMO.
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:25 am

bumrusherer wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
They have a young core, are probably drafting Rose as their PG of the future (which would make Hinrich and his remaining contract expendable), and would want a large expiring contract like Lamar because Chicago is a great city to attract potential free agents.

That's EXACTLY what the Bulls would want when they're looking to dump Hinrich.

You make sense but out of all the pipes that are being thrown around. This is the least likely, IMO.


it has been said that if they draft rose hinrich is the most likely to be gone

besides they need to clear up space to make a run at dwayne wade the chicago native that you know they have their eyes on

if they trade us hinrich and drew gooden their line-up in 2010 could be

??????
lamar odom
andres nocioni
dwayne wade
derrick rose

hell they get the right center they could be a championship team

that right there is an exciting fastbreak team
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Postby KB24 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:29 am

So to the Chicago deals...

Hinrich and Nocioni? :man10: :man10: :man10:

We are not going to add 2 more 10 mio. salaries...not gonna happen. It would make no sense anymore...its a BUSINESS after all. Most companies try to increase their EBIT (Earnings before interests and taxes) or NI (net income) by reducing costs not by improving their services and products.

Hinrich...solid defender but extremely prone to very stupid touch fouls...a PG who regularly gets into foul troubles....he averages 3 fouls and leads all kind of guards in the NBA including shooting guards. He is a solid shooter, at least before last season. Last year he was just utter garbage.

pros
good shooter
good defender
good size
good hoop IQ
solid passer who doesn't dominate the ball too much

cons
bad contract
has regressed a lot last season
seems to fold under pressure

all in all Lamar is >>> Hinrich and there is no doubt about it. Chicago would have to throw in a solid prospect for me to accept that offer unless they add an expiring K and accept a terrible contract. Radbrick or Luke. Nocioni is also much worse than Odom.
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Postby wallangong on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:32 am

bumrusherer wrote:
wallangong wrote:
are you serious? the Bulls have no inside presence. while LO is not a post player, he can rebound very well and is better than anything they have at PF. plus, his contract is coming off the books after this season, and with Derrick Rose they have no need to Hinrich's contract. i still think Hinrich is overrated and think we could do better than him. if you include Nocioni, then i'd do that only if Artest is here.

Odom isnt exactly an inside presence. Plus, Gooden averaged 9 boards a game with the Bulls. Now Gooden isnt Odom but from a rebounding standpoint...they are equal when you factor in the minutes.


Gooden is not even close to Lamar in rebounding. The Bulls lacked any inside presence so Gooden got rebounds, but Lamar is lightyears ahead of Drew when it comes to having a knack for rebounding. i acknowledged Lamar isn't much of an inside presence, but he's tall and long enough to be a perfect fit at PF in that system.
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:34 am

bumrusherer wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
They have a young core, are probably drafting Rose as their PG of the future (which would make Hinrich and his remaining contract expendable), and would want a large expiring contract like Lamar because Chicago is a great city to attract potential free agents.

That's EXACTLY what the Bulls would want when they're looking to dump Hinrich.

You make sense but out of all the pipes that are being thrown around. This is the least likely, IMO.


I'm honestly really confused by that. Think about all the ridiculous spending that NBA teams have done over the past 4 or 5 years that has resulted in guys staying in their deals because teams don't have the cap space to sign elite free agents to large deals.

Now that you have over $14 million in expiring dollars attached to an extremely talented player, that's going to be VERY attractive to teams looking to reduce payroll. Hinrich fits the bill of someone that a team is looking to dump and would be a nice fit for us.

Not sure where you're seeing this as being a long shot since it's the likeliest of scenarios that I've seen (as far as motivation for the other potential team involved).
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Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:34 am

last stand wrote:if we get ron artest without odom there are two guys i'd want to make a deal for

lamar to milwaukee for maurice williams and charlie villanueva

lamar to chicago for kirk hinrich+drew gooden

both trades along with ron artest keep us younger and make us virtually unstoppable


No to Charlie V.
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:36 am

KB24@CL wrote:cons
bad contract


As for his contract, it should be noted that he's only 27 and has a unique contract in that his salary actually decreases yearly.
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Postby D.B. Cooper on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:37 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
bumrusherer wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
They have a young core, are probably drafting Rose as their PG of the future (which would make Hinrich and his remaining contract expendable), and would want a large expiring contract like Lamar because Chicago is a great city to attract potential free agents.

That's EXACTLY what the Bulls would want when they're looking to dump Hinrich.

You make sense but out of all the pipes that are being thrown around. This is the least likely, IMO.


I'm honestly really confused by that. Think about all the ridiculous spending that NBA teams have done over the past 4 or 5 years that has resulted in guys staying in their deals because teams don't have the cap space to sign elite free agents to large deals.

Now that you have over $14 million in expiring dollars attached to an extremely talented player, that's going to be VERY attractive to teams looking to reduce payroll. Hinrich fits the bill of someone that a team is looking to dump and would be a nice fit for us.

Not sure where you're seeing this as being a long shot since it's the likeliest of scenarios that I've seen (as far as motivation for the other potential team involved).


Plus someone said that Hinrich's contract is front loaded so our payroll
would be decreasing as the years go, if true.

Edit: Ok I see its true then.
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Postby KB24 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:40 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:cons
bad contract


As for his contract, it should be noted that he's only 27 and has a unique contract in that his salary actually decreases yearly.


thats a good thing actually...I wouldn't mind to get Hinrich but either we get Hinrich AND something for Odom or we add a scrub with a bad contract.
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:41 am

KB24@CL wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:cons
bad contract


As for his contract, it should be noted that he's only 27 and has a unique contract in that his salary actually decreases yearly.


thats a good thing actually...I wouldn't mind to get Hinrich but either we get Hinrich AND something for Odom or we add a scrub with a bad contract.


odom+vlad+mihm for hinrich+drew gooden
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Postby mapabu1 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:56 am

I think the three is a position more in need than point. Trevor's jumper is still to weak to put him in the starting 3 spot.
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Postby Vincey on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:59 am

If they ship Odom off, it better be for a 3, and nothing else. I only want to see Artest, Miller, or Jefferson in Odom's spot.

They can keep Kirk, the Lakers don't need that ugly contract.
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Postby KB24 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:01 pm

last stand wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:
Lakerman JSJ wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:cons
bad contract


As for his contract, it should be noted that he's only 27 and has a unique contract in that his salary actually decreases yearly.


thats a good thing actually...I wouldn't mind to get Hinrich but either we get Hinrich AND something for Odom or we add a scrub with a bad contract.


odom+vlad+mihm for hinrich+drew gooden


not gonna happen...thats rape IMO.

AND we don't need/want Gooden. No reason to have an 8 mio. salary bench player who is not what we need. We need a hard working bruising bigman, not a jumpshooter with little to offer defensively.
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Postby Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:08 pm

All these deals are rape but it's about cutting salary for most teams.

Chicago
New Jersey
Memphis
ect.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:39 pm

Vincey wrote:If they ship Odom off, it better be for a 3, and nothing else. I only want to see Artest, Miller, or Jefferson in Odom's spot.

They can keep Kirk, the Lakers don't need that ugly contract.



It's not that ugly.

We'll see about Jefferson etc... very soon.
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Postby Vincey on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:47 pm

Jajwa wrote:
Vincey wrote:If they ship Odom off, it better be for a 3, and nothing else. I only want to see Artest, Miller, or Jefferson in Odom's spot.

They can keep Kirk, the Lakers don't need that ugly contract.



It's not that ugly.

We'll see about Jefferson etc... very soon.

Kirk is overpaid period. Point being [pun intended], if the Lakers decide to trade Odom, I don't want it to be for a point guard. Especially if it's Kirk freaking Hinrich. He's decent, but what exactly would that solve?
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:48 pm

It would be for more than Hinrich, but that's besides the point. It's the last case safe scenario.


Right now we're just waiting on Artest and trying to convince New Jersey that Odom for RJ is a good trade.
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Postby Vincey on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:53 pm

Jajwa wrote:It would be for more than Hinrich, but that's besides the point. It's the last case safe scenario.


Right now we're just waiting on Artest and trying to convince New Jersey that Odom for RJ is a good trade.

Who else? Drew Gooden? I don't see anyone on the Bulls roster that I'd want here.. realistically speaking. Why does that even have to be a scenario? The Lakers don't need to start looking for point guards just yet.. shipping off LO just for the sake of trading seems ill-advised.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:11 pm

Vincey wrote:
Jajwa wrote:It would be for more than Hinrich, but that's besides the point. It's the last case safe scenario.


Right now we're just waiting on Artest and trying to convince New Jersey that Odom for RJ is a good trade.

Who else? Drew Gooden? I don't see anyone on the Bulls roster that I'd want here.. realistically speaking. Why does that even have to be a scenario? The Lakers don't need to start looking for point guards just yet.. shipping off LO just for the sake of trading seems ill-advised.


It's not Gooden. It's Nocioni plus us sending out Radmanovic. We upgrade at the PG spot (in my opinion) and Nocioni is a far better defender than Radmanovic.

That allows us to trade Farmar for another upgrade elsewhere.

We are holding onto Odom for now just to wait and see what Artest does. It seems that RJ is the second option.
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Postby Lakerjones on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:35 pm

Jajwa wrote:
Vincey wrote:
Jajwa wrote:It would be for more than Hinrich, but that's besides the point. It's the last case safe scenario.


Right now we're just waiting on Artest and trying to convince New Jersey that Odom for RJ is a good trade.

Who else? Drew Gooden? I don't see anyone on the Bulls roster that I'd want here.. realistically speaking. Why does that even have to be a scenario? The Lakers don't need to start looking for point guards just yet.. shipping off LO just for the sake of trading seems ill-advised.


It's not Gooden. It's Nocioni plus us sending out Radmanovic. We upgrade at the PG spot (in my opinion) and Nocioni is a far better defender than Radmanovic.

That allows us to trade Farmar for another upgrade elsewhere.

We are holding onto Odom for now just to wait and see what Artest does. It seems that RJ is the second option.


Add Marion to that possibility according to Emplay's last article. I'm not big on the Bulls deal myself. Nocioni is all right. But I'd be tempted to just see how Odom fits before the deadline and explore that trade later if need be.
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Postby TrojanMan DMG on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:24 pm

Vincey wrote:
Jajwa wrote:
Vincey wrote:If they ship Odom off, it better be for a 3, and nothing else. I only want to see Artest, Miller, or Jefferson in Odom's spot.

They can keep Kirk, the Lakers don't need that ugly contract.



It's not that ugly.

We'll see about Jefferson etc... very soon.

Kirk is overpaid period. Point being [pun intended], if the Lakers decide to trade Odom, I don't want it to be for a point guard. Especially if it's Kirk freaking Hinrich. He's decent, but what exactly would that solve?


It would solve our perimter defense and perimeter shooting that we don't have with Pau, Bynum, and Odom starting. Don't get me wrong, I really like Odom, he is seemingly a great guy, and easy to root for, but he does not have an outside jumper that we need to space the floor out for Pau, Bynum, and Kobe. We can't just start him at point guard, because it doesn't solve the spacing issue. So if we start Fish, Kobe, Artest, Pau, and Bynum, then we have Lamar as our $13 million dollar 6th man? Then what do we do next offseason? Just let him walk? Why not get a great fit for our team now (Hinrich). We need another SF like we need another hole in our head. I would love to get rid of Vlad and Luke (especially Luke, that guy is a tuuurrrible knucklehead) but no NBA team is going to take them in a trade. Teams want an expiring contract, and Lamar is just that. He is great trade bait now. So if we can get Artest, we need to move Lamar. And what position would we need a starter at with a lineup of Fish, Kobe, Artest, Paul, and Bynum? Clearly an upgrade at PG would be the obvious choice. Hinirch is a player that Chicago would desperately want to move if/when they draft Rose, and I think he would be a perfect fit at PG for the Triangle offense.
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