LO Trade Bait This Summer? (Sun-Sentinel p.16)

Postby LetHimRoll on Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:54 pm

Battier shuts guys down. He is the best SF defender in the league. Just ask Kobe and Lebron.
The reason Kobe had trouble scoring was because our low post presents was not commanding enough attention. Whith Bynum back our shooters become relevent again. LO for Battier and Bobby Jackson would be beatiful.
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Postby last stand on Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:59 pm

LetHimRoll wrote:Battier shuts guys down. He is the best SF defender in the league. Just ask Kobe and Lebron.
The reason Kobe had trouble scoring was because our low post presents was not commanding enough attention. Whith Bynum back our shooters become relevent again. LO for Battier and Bobby Jackson would be beatiful.


battier is a one trick pony offensively vlad has more in his offensive repertoire than battier

and his defense is vastly overrated

i would rather keep odom than get battier

here is a list of players and i'll filter our choices for you

pure SF

battier, prince, artest, jefferson, marion, gerald wallace

pure SF who can shoot

battier, prince, artest, jefferson

pure SF who can shoot and play defense

battier, prince, artest, jefferson

pure SF who can shoot play defense and create his own shot and get to the line and basket

artest, jefferson

pure SF who can shoot play defense and create his own shot and get to the line and basket and when on his game is a top 20 player in the NBA

ron artest

there is your man fellas
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Postby Jajwa on Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:46 pm

See but that's the problem. With the ridiculous Paul Pierce "foul train" referees of the league all your going to get are great defenders picking up fouls like they have a disease.

One of the MOST effective ways of neutralizing the opponent is by putting them in foul trouble. Boston had a MAJOR advantage in this throughout the series. There's a common misconception on CL that the 3 only has to shoot on offense as well as pass. It's FAR from true. The only reason it worked in 2000-2002 years was because Shaq put defenders and their newborn children in foul trouble. If Fox had been able to drive it would have made things completely different.

Yes defense is valuable, but so is the ability to take the ball to the damn basket. With little fear of Radmanovic attacking the basket the Celtics could put Ray Allen on Radmanovic and not really fear a post up (we should have at least how that would have worked).

Pippen was no shooter but he attacked the basket consistently. Yet he could also shoot better than Odom could.

If you have:

SG- Ray Allen vs. Kobe Bryant
SF- Paul Pierce vs. Richard Jefferson

Boston absolutely cannot switch their matchups. Essentially Ray Allen is made null and void in this series because he will rack up fouls against Kobe. If you have Battier, Allen stands a chance against him.

No to mention that Richard Jefferson and Kobe Bryant will take turns hammering Pierce with fouls the entire game.

Jump shooters don't put Kevin Garnett in foul trouble. Richard Jefferson will put Perkins in foul trouble. Garnett will pickup cheap fouls. Guess what games we won? The ones we put them in foul trouble. Sorry but Sasha Vujajic, Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier and the like cannot do that.
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Postby Lakerjones on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:00 am

LetHimRoll wrote:Battier shuts guys down. He is the best SF defender in the league. Just ask Kobe and Lebron.
The reason Kobe had trouble scoring was because our low post presents was not commanding enough attention. Whith Bynum back our shooters become relevent again. LO for Battier and Bobby Jackson would be beatiful.


I'm going to say it again. LO for Battier will not happen for a few reasons. Mostly because our FO isn't interested in trading Lamar, better talent, for lesser talent in Battier. Even if you and I and the rest of us think Battier is a better fit, it is never going to happen.

On top of that, you don't REALLY want it to happen. At least I don't. Because we cannot afford to give Houston a legitimate number 3 option, especially one who is as talented and can do as many things as Lamar does. He's an X factor and you DO NOT want to see him teamed up with Yao and T-Mac and the rest, grabbing tons of rebounds at the 4, pushing the ball up the court, slashing in the lane, etc. All of the things he bring could take them to the next level. And they weren't far behind us this year as it was!!! Uh uh. You don't give your opponent in conference your 3rd of 4th best player for a role player in return.

Battier is good at what he does and is perhaps a better fit at 3 than Odom, but the FO will not give Lamar to Houston. He could be the piece that helps take us down. No chance. Much better to get a guy like Prince or RJ from the East.
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Postby BB on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:03 am

LetHimRoll wrote:Battier shuts guys down. He is the best SF defender in the league. Just ask Kobe and Lebron.
The reason Kobe had trouble scoring was because our low post presents was not commanding enough attention. Whith Bynum back our shooters become relevent again. LO for Battier and Bobby Jackson would be beatiful.
Right, Kobe sucked in like 2 games against Battier. How about the rest of them? One of those games was the first game of the season when our team was all over the place.
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Postby rscogold on Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:35 am

can you imagine Odom to the Bobcats for the #9 pick? they are in a win now mode with Larry Brown. it's consistent with their trade for Jason Richardson last year and they have a definite need for some help alongside Okafur. we know Odom's best season was as an Eastern Conference four. the bonus would be the 14M trade exception. is this totally pipe?
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Postby emplay on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:06 am

Bobcats don't have cap room - so yes, it's complete (and illegal) pipe
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Postby Amongst:Kings on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:11 am

people who say Battier has no offense have no clue.

He may not be a scorer, but he hits shots, big ones.

Remember our first game of the season after we made that run? Who made that corner 3 with a hand in the face to hold us off?

BATTIER.

I'd still rather keep Odom though.
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Postby methodxs on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:34 am

i feel like the best trade we can do for odom are for prince or G-WALL. anyone agree?
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Postby JSM on Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:32 am

South Florida Sun Sentinel: Dan Fegan, agent for Heat forward Shawn Marion, said Sunday night it is "highly unlikely" that his client will opt out of his $17.8 million for next season.

Marion must finalize his decision by Tuesday at 6 p.m., but Fegan said unless there was a dramatic shift in talks with Heat President Pat Riley, "I don't think we're opting out."

While bypassing the opt-out would leave Marion under contract for 2008-09, on the final year of his contract, it also would cast doubts on the forward's presence with the Heat in the long run.

Marion had hoped to negotiate a long-term extension, in the $60 million range, a package that would have been easier to arrange under salary-cap rules had he opted out by Tuesday and then agreed to a new deal in the offseason, similar to the move made last summer by New Jersey Nets guard Vince Carter.

Now, any extension for Marion in the range the forward is seeking could cut severely into the Heat's cap space for the 2010 offseason, when players such as Heat guard Dwyane Wade, Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James and Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh can become free agents. Riley has stressed that maintaining cap space for that offseason is his financial priority.

The most amicable resolution with Marion should he not opt out would be a trade, with Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom, Los Angeles Clippers forward Elton Brand and Utah Jazz forward Carlos Boozer among the options. Marion would be eligible to be dealt as soon as Tuesday's opt-out deadline passes.
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Postby Lakerjones on Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:10 am

JSM wrote:
South Florida Sun Sentinel: Dan Fegan, agent for Heat forward Shawn Marion, said Sunday night it is "highly unlikely" that his client will opt out of his $17.8 million for next season.

Marion must finalize his decision by Tuesday at 6 p.m., but Fegan said unless there was a dramatic shift in talks with Heat President Pat Riley, "I don't think we're opting out."

While bypassing the opt-out would leave Marion under contract for 2008-09, on the final year of his contract, it also would cast doubts on the forward's presence with the Heat in the long run.

Marion had hoped to negotiate a long-term extension, in the $60 million range, a package that would have been easier to arrange under salary-cap rules had he opted out by Tuesday and then agreed to a new deal in the offseason, similar to the move made last summer by New Jersey Nets guard Vince Carter.

Now, any extension for Marion in the range the forward is seeking could cut severely into the Heat's cap space for the 2010 offseason, when players such as Heat guard Dwyane Wade, Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James and Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh can become free agents. Riley has stressed that maintaining cap space for that offseason is his financial priority.

The most amicable resolution with Marion should he not opt out would be a trade, with Los Angeles Lakers forward Lamar Odom, Los Angeles Clippers forward Elton Brand and Utah Jazz forward Carlos Boozer among the options. Marion would be eligible to be dealt as soon as Tuesday's opt-out deadline passes.


This is encouraging news. Marion on the Lakers would be incredible. He's a heck of a defender, rebounder and scorer. He's a legit all star where LO has always been close but no cigar. That would be a great move because we would be getting another star, not just another good role player for LO.

Question - I thought the opt out deadline was June 30? I'm confused about this mention of Tuesday. Well, if it's sooner than later at least that will solve the questions about Artest. Sounds he's not going to do it. Too bad because he and Odom together would be ridiculous. But if we are going to move Odom, Marion is by far the best player we could get IMO. He's better than RJ, Prince or Wallace.
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Postby agent13 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:56 am

i dotn want marion here. marion has to be the second guy and have the ball, that is not going to happen with gasol,kobe, and a healthy bynum. LO at least is ok with being 3-4 option and does better, plus marion wont be happy unless he gets a huge extensiuon, something that wont happen with the lakers squad now.
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Postby LakersN4 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:44 am

agent13 wrote:i dotn want marion here. marion has to be the second guy and have the ball, that is not going to happen with gasol,kobe, and a healthy bynum. LO at least is ok with being 3-4 option and does better, plus marion wont be happy unless he gets a huge extensiuon, something that wont happen with the lakers squad now.
Marion has to have the ball? LMAO.

Marion is THE best garbage man in the league. The suns didn't run plays for him at all & he still put up great numbers.

I've always been 100% against a LO for Marion swap because I believe LO is a better all around player.. Plus does a much better job @ the 4 than Marion.

Now that our needs have changed to a SF who plays tough D & can hit outside shots (the 2 categories Marion is leaps & bounds ahead of LO in) I'm all for it..

I didn't think Marion was an option because of his extention.. He probably still isn't our long term solution as we won't be giving him the max when his current deal expires, but even then we'll get more value out of a sign & trade for Marion than we would LO.

This should be the first option.. Josh Smith is a better defender but again can't shoot.. Ron is a headcase & his D has been around the same level as Marion's lately anyway.. RJeff isn't close to the defender Marion is..

Honestly I don't think we could find a better fit @ sf
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Postby Johnnyboy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:19 am

^^I think what he meant to say is he wants to have the ball. He complained alot with Suns because he wasn't the number 1 and 2 option. Nash has even said he was a problem in the locker room. If he decided that it would be ok not to demand the ball, he would be a perfect fit.
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Postby LoyalLakerfan44 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:58 am

LakersN4 wrote:
agent13 wrote:i dotn want marion here. marion has to be the second guy and have the ball, that is not going to happen with gasol,kobe, and a healthy bynum. LO at least is ok with being 3-4 option and does better, plus marion wont be happy unless he gets a huge extensiuon, something that wont happen with the lakers squad now.
Marion has to have the ball? LMAO.

Marion is THE best garbage man in the league. The suns didn't run plays for him at all & he still put up great numbers.

I've always been 100% against a LO for Marion swap because I believe LO is a better all around player.. Plus does a much better job @ the 4 than Marion.

Now that our needs have changed to a SF who plays tough D & can hit outside shots (the 2 categories Marion is leaps & bounds ahead of LO in) I'm all for it..

I didn't think Marion was an option because of his extention.. He probably still isn't our long term solution as we won't be giving him the max when his current deal expires, but even then we'll get more value out of a sign & trade for Marion than we would LO.

This should be the first option.. Josh Smith is a better defender but again can't shoot.. Ron is a headcase & his D has been around the same level as Marion's lately anyway.. RJeff isn't close to the defender Marion is..

Honestly I don't think we could find a better fit @ sf


The biggest problem everybody has is believing that LO is a great player and a good fit for this team. Until fans and the Lakers get off the LO bandwaggon the Lakers are not going to win the finals. Never been a fan of LO and not one to care about players who fill up stat sheets. All you have to do is watch LO and you'll realize he's on cruise control all the time. Get a paycheck and go home to smoke my stuff, that's Odom.
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Postby Amongst:Kings on Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:56 am

Odom, Vlad for Marion?

I'd love it
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Postby Radner on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:05 am

Amongst:Kings wrote:Odom, Vlad for Marion?

I'd love it


No way Miami takes back Vlad.
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Postby mapabu1 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:07 am

Miami would just do Marion for Odom straight up.
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Postby Radner on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:10 am

mapabu1 wrote:Miami would just do Marion for Odom straight up.


No, they wouldn't.

They would probably want Farmar and a re-signed Sasha. Even then, that wouldn't be enough.

I don't know why people assume that Marion is realistic. He's demanding a lot of money to re-sign, something close to 15 million and more. The Lakers are not going to pay that when they have to re-sign Sasha, Ronny, and Drew.
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Postby wallangong on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:13 am

Radner wrote:
mapabu1 wrote:Miami would just do Marion for Odom straight up.


No, they wouldn't.

They would probably want Farmar and a re-signed Sasha. Even then, that wouldn't be enough.

I don't know why people assume that Marion is realistic. He's demanding a lot of money to re-sign, something close to 15 million and more. The Lakers are not going to pay that when they have to re-sign Sasha, Ronny, and Drew.


it's not that far-fetched for them to do Odom/Marion straight up. Marion won't finish his career there so they're better off getting something while they can. With Odom, they get a potential Eastern all-star and somebody Riley loves. Throw in his past success with Wade and the fact that he too is an expiring K, it's not crazy to think they'd do that virtually straight up.
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Postby 81Kobe on Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:00 pm

Radner wrote:
mapabu1 wrote:Miami would just do Marion for Odom straight up.


No, they wouldn't.

They would probably want Farmar and a re-signed Sasha. Even then, that wouldn't be enough.

I don't know why people assume that Marion is realistic. He's demanding a lot of money to re-sign, something close to 15 million and more. The Lakers are not going to pay that when they have to re-sign Sasha, Ronny, and Drew.


LO is a better financial fit because he has to recognize that he is not even worth more than $8 mil a year.

The Lakers also have a financial priority of clearing cap space for resigning Abomb.
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Postby BB on Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:58 am

81Kobe wrote:LO is a better financial fit because he has to recognize that he is not even worth more than $8 mil a year.

The Lakers also have a financial priority of clearing cap space for resigning Abomb.

We don't really need to clear cap to resign Bynum because he'll be RFA and that means we can match any offer someone makes to him. And I doubt anyone will offer him a max deal considering the fact that more doctors said he's prone to knee injuries. I mean, they'll be able to sign better players than bynum in 2010 as FAs. Right now, if he wants the max he has to play for it and earn it and I doubt Bynum will play like someone who deserves the max when we can keep him for less. Plus, we won't achieve anything with Vladimir/Odom at the SF.
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Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:31 am

BB wrote:
81Kobe wrote:LO is a better financial fit because he has to recognize that he is not even worth more than $8 mil a year.

The Lakers also have a financial priority of clearing cap space for resigning Abomb.

We don't really need to clear cap to resign Bynum because he'll be RFA and that means we can match any offer someone makes to him. And I doubt anyone will offer him a max deal considering the fact that more doctors said he's prone to knee injuries. I mean, they'll be able to sign better players than bynum in 2010 as FAs. Right now, if he wants the max he has to play for it and earn it and I doubt Bynum will play like someone who deserves the max when we can keep him for less. Plus, we won't achieve anything with Vladimir/Odom at the SF.


As mentioned in another thread, Bynum has said himself that he just wants to be a Laker when it comes down to it, and it would not take max money to keep him here. That's great news.

Marion is IMO still the perfect fit for the Lakers. Re: his money, Emplay said when I asked him directly, that it's his understanding that Buss would actually pay for him. They wouldn't offer the extension until they found out how he fit, but he would potentially be down to pay him. Maybe it wouldn't be max contract but from reports about the Miami talks it seems he's looking for about 13 mill a year for 4 years. Miami is talking 9 or 10 and that's why he didn't opt out.

I don't care about so much about Sasha if we get Marion. We've got a real need at the starting 3 spot and we need D there. Marion is perfect for rebounding, D, getting out on the break. You still have Vlad Rad off the bench for shooting (he could play 4 like Cook did and spread the floor), Walton at 3, and Ariza could be in at the backup 2.
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Postby Jajwa on Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:32 am

I would only do the deal if they were to take away a bad contract that we've got and give us a more useful contract. Marcus Banks would be my ideal candidate for this.

Odom+Walton+ for Marion+Banks would be a great deal in my book any day of the week.
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Postby BB on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:21 pm

Jajwa wrote:I would only do the deal if they were to take away a bad contract that we've got and give us a more useful contract. Marcus Banks would be my ideal candidate for this.

Odom+Walton+ for Marion+Banks would be a great deal in my book any day of the week.
Why would they do that? They can let Marion go and have his contract off the books so they'd take Odom if they want him as a player, not for his contract.
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