Trading up with Bobcats for #5 and #13

Postby kobe_the_truth on Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:48 pm

then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season
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Postby Okki on Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:21 pm

I think he si gonna be a very good player this season
He also played different went kobe was injured.
he took more responsibility and attacked the rim
but he has to stop making STUPID CHARGES!
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Postby kobe_the_truth on Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:16 pm

yes i agree
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Postby Edgar2005 on Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:31 pm

Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 wrote:
alex58 wrote:CARON for the 5th and the 13th????????? this is nutz..
Why don't we trade one of our SF's like Walton or JJ for that draft.


That's because no one wants them.

If I was the other team trading with the Lakers, I would ask for Caron every single time, and laugh at the idea of getting Walton and JJ.


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Postby lakeshow2k4 on Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:58 pm

Okki wrote:I think he si gonna be a very good player this season
He also played different went kobe was injured.
he took more responsibility and attacked the rim
but he has to stop making STUPID CHARGES!


So what happens when Kobe ISN'T injured? Caron and Lamar are the only tradeable players on the roster.

So in other words, a 34-48 team should not make ANY trades?

Nobody wants our other players, they suck!

Caron is a good player, but not an impact player and won't ever be.
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Postby kobe_the_truth on Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:24 pm

TRADE ODOM FOR A BETER PF MAYBE A BOOZER ETC
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Postby MasterRaider on Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:33 pm

kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.
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Postby Savage1 on Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:47 pm

MasterRaider wrote:
kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.


I agree. A lot of players can put up big numbers when they are among the first options on a bad or mediocre team. Butler picked it up when Odom was out because somebody had to pick up the scoring.
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Postby Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 on Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:10 pm

Savage1 wrote:
MasterRaider wrote:
kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.


I agree. A lot of players can put up big numbers when they are among the first options on a bad or mediocre team. Butler picked it up when Odom was out because somebody had to pick up the scoring.


Good point. Fans tend to fall in love with a player too quickly. Hope, I'm wrong though and Caron becomes a star.
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...

Postby wavy on Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:33 am

caron will never be a star with the lakers, i think it would be good for us to trade him for the 5th and 13th, everybody would benefit. the bobcats would get a good player (cuz caron would be good in charlotte) and the 10th pic which is good, and we would get better pics the 5th and 13th are oki think.
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Re: ...

Postby KB24 on Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:42 am

wavy wrote:caron will never be a star with the lakers, i think it would be good for us to trade him for the 5th and 13th, everybody would benefit. the bobcats would get a good player (cuz caron would be good in charlotte) and the 10th pic which is good, and we would get better pics the 5th and 13th are oki think.
:jam2: the more I think the more I like the idea for the Lakers :jam2:
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Postby LakersCourt on Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:40 am

I do like the idea of shipping Mr. Butler out of here for #5 and # 13, but lets look at this realistically. #5 pick is not that great!!! Bogut, M. Williams, C. Paul and G. Green will all be gone by then!!! Yes, D. Williams will be available, but he isn't worth trading Butler for. I am sold one any of the above 4, but not D. Williams, even though he would do well in the Triangle(So would all above...except Chris Paul). My point is, while it looks good to move up to #5, its not as great as we envision.
However, the trade with N.O. would be great IF, Mitch found a way to ship Caron for the #4 pick straight up! I might be williing to also throw the 2 number 2's away for that , but NOT THE #10!!!


Lakers would then have 3 draft picks(2 in the lottery)

#4- Gerald Green(1st) Chris Paul(2nd)
#10-Fran Vasquez in a perfect world(1st!!) Tiago Splitter(if he stays in #2 choice). Chris Taft (#3)
#17- Andrew Bynum (he says he only wants lottery, but when he sees how loaded this team is, plus its the Lakers, and Phil jackson who would be coaching him, as well as the opportunity to be, "the next great bigman for the L.A. lakers". I say he stays in)


Lineup like this

Triangle offense, remember no Point Guard

Coach: Phil Jackson

G-Gerald Green
G-Kobe Bryant
F-Lamar Odom
F-Fran Vasquez or Tiago Splitter
C- Chris Mihm

Off the bench
Johnathan Bender-F
Chucky Atkins-G
Jermaine Jones-F
Andrew Bynum-C
Sasha Vujacic-G
Luke Walton-F
Devean George-F(I'd love it if we could get rid of Cook and Medvedenko for Bender and #17 and Keep George)

That's one damn impressive lineup :man4:
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Postby quitkthanx on Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:08 am

That's exactly what we need... a highschool sg/sf as our new starting pg. No thanks.
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Postby LakersCourt on Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:33 am

quitkthanx wrote:That's exactly what we need... a highschool sg/sf as our new starting pg. No thanks.



Once again, there is no POINT GUARD in the Traingle.....anyone can bring it up. I just said that.


The possibility of adding Gerald Green, Fran Vasquez and Andrew Bynum all has to make one go :man4:
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Postby Savage1 on Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:55 am

LakersCourt wrote:I do like the idea of shipping Mr. Butler out of here for #5 and # 13, but lets look at this realistically. #5 pick is not that great!!! Bogut, M. Williams, C. Paul and G. Green will all be gone by then!!! Yes, D. Williams will be available, but he isn't worth trading Butler for. I am sold one any of the above 4, but not D. Williams, even though he would do well in the Triangle(So would all above...except Chris Paul). My point is, while it looks good to move up to #5, its not as great as we envision.
However, the trade with N.O. would be great IF, Mitch found a way to ship Caron for the #4 pick straight up! I might be williing to also throw the 2 number 2's away for that , but NOT THE #10!!!


Lakers would then have 3 draft picks(2 in the lottery)

#4- Gerald Green(1st) Chris Paul(2nd)
#10-Fran Vasquez in a perfect world(1st!!) Tiago Splitter(if he stays in #2 choice). Chris Taft (#3)
#17- Andrew Bynum (he says he only wants lottery, but when he sees how loaded this team is, plus its the Lakers, and Phil jackson who would be coaching him, as well as the opportunity to be, "the next great bigman for the L.A. lakers". I say he stays in)


Lineup like this

Triangle offense, remember no Point Guard

Coach: Phil Jackson

G-Gerald Green
G-Kobe Bryant
F-Lamar Odom
F-Fran Vasquez or Tiago Splitter
C- Chris Mihm

Off the bench
Johnathan Bender-F
Chucky Atkins-G
Jermaine Jones-F
Andrew Bynum-C
Sasha Vujacic-G
Luke Walton-F
Devean George-F(I'd love it if we could get rid of Cook and Medvedenko for Bender and #17 and Keep George)

That's one damn impressive lineup :man4:


The only problem I'd have with that starting lineup is that we have gotten ripped by smaller, quicker guards for years now. Starting Green (who is said to be a natural SF) would mean that most likely Kobe would end up guarding the smaller guys. He does a great job, but it takes a lot of energy and that's energy that he won't have on the offensive end.
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Postby Okki on Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:06 pm

Let's use those picks 4 a good pg not a sf who's bringing up the ball and stuff like that.

Phil Jackson preffered bigger PG's like harper but he didn't prefer a SF for the triangle.

You ever saw Glen Rice or Rick Fox bring up the ball few times a game?


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Postby JSM on Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:15 pm

Okki wrote:You ever saw Glen Rice or Rick Fox bring up the ball few times a game?


NO.

That's because they didn't exactly have great handles. I will promise you that Phil will have Odom bring the ball up the court from time to time. Ever watch Scottie on the Bulls? Phil would use him to bring the ball up the court.
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Postby EQualizer on Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:31 pm

MasterRaider wrote:
kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.


agreed with 100% everything you said raider
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Postby Guest on Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:33 pm

EQualizer wrote:
MasterRaider wrote:
kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.


agreed with 100% everything you said raider


Agree. Butler MAY become Very, Very good, but not here.
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Postby Savage1 on Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:29 pm

Okki wrote:Let's use those picks 4 a good pg not a sf who's bringing up the ball and stuff like that.

Phil Jackson preffered bigger PG's like harper but he didn't prefer a SF for the triangle.

You ever saw Glen Rice or Rick Fox bring up the ball few times a game?


NO.


It's true that those two weren't asked to bring the ball up, but that wasn't one of their strengths. By the time Phil came to coach both of them, they had already established what they were capable of.

I do remember Phil asking Devean George, in an annual exit-interview, to work on his ball-handling for the next season. Phil wanted to utilize George as an initiator of the offense. Phil tried it with Devean and it didn't work, so he does like to utilize bigger players to bring the ball up.

Phil Jackson preffered bigger PG's like harper but he didn't prefer a SF for the triangle.


In Cleveland, I believe Harper was utilized as a SG more than a PG. Phil saw potential in Harper because of his athletic skills and intelligence so he wanted him to initiate the offense.
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Postby SWOL on Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:43 am

WHAT ABOUT CARON AND 10
FOR MELVIN ELY AND 5
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Postby Laker Jam on Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:50 am

Savage1 wrote:
MasterRaider wrote:
kobe_the_truth wrote:then he wil be mature enough to be an allstar and i woudnt expect nothing less than 20+ ppg this season


You guys are overestimating Bulter.

Before Odom was injured, Butler was garbage. The Boozer trade falling out and Odom getting injured turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Butler RAISED HIS STOCK. We need to trade him while we can because if we start the season with Odom and Butler again, Butler will look like garbage AGAIN, and we'll get peanuts for him.

Butler will be a good player, but he won't do much to propel any team to a contender. On an average team, I can see him putting up 18, 6, and 3 (assuming he's one of the first 2 options). He's not a great passer and doesn't really create for others. He's a finisher and has the athleticism to be a decent defender. I think Gerald Gree and Danny Granger will be better than Butler.


I agree. A lot of players can put up big numbers when they are among the first options on a bad or mediocre team. Butler picked it up when Odom was out because somebody had to pick up the scoring.


The only flaw with this thinking is that Lamar would be the THIRD option. His primary role under a Phil Jackson led team, would be to help other guys get there's, which suits Lamar just fine. That means Kobe is option #1 and Caron would be option #2 - and last season for the final 6 weeks, we saw what Caron does as a second option - 25/6/4/3. Those numbers are more than anyone can ask of a 2nd option, AND he did it shooting over 50% AND without plays being run specifically for him, while also getting steals and playing superb defense.

I'd still trade him if need be, but let's not start trying to say he isn't capable of this or that, because we flat out saw that he IS capable of all we could want or need. Hence why he's so valuable in trade. You think a team would trade TWO (2) lottery picks for a guy who isn't capable of that?

No need to diss Caron in order to justify trading him. NOT contending and NOT being in the playoffs, is reason enough without having to minimize a young player whose clearly coming into his own. We ALL hate to lose him, but we hate losing even more.
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Postby Laker Jam on Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:20 am

swolswol wrote:WHAT ABOUT CARON AND 10
FOR MELVIN ELY AND 5


NO FRIGGIN WAY! Caron is worth that 5th pick and the 10th pick is already likely to be WAY better than undersized Melvin. That 10th pick could be Fran Vasquez, Jarret Jack, Raymond Felton - any number of guys who are starter worthy (something Ely still isn't).
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Re: Trading up with Bobcats for #5 and #13

Postby kobe_the_truth on Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:34 pm

nn4299 wrote:I'm not sure if anyone else heard this but there was a rumor just now on 570 AM.

Lakers trade: Caron Butler and #10

Bobcats trade: #5 and #13
but this will be too much
caron and the 10 pick
for
the 5ft and the 13
im sure caron is better than that 5 pick right now or even the first pick remeber these rookie aint gonna produced right now u probly have to waite 2 years for them to become great and once again im sure there no lebron,wade r carmelo in the draft certainly not the 5 ft pick
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Re: Trading up with Bobcats for #5 and #13

Postby lakers8kobe on Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:40 pm

Is Caron Butler and #10 bad than Bobcats #5 and #13?
No,this year's drafs are not very good![/b]
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