Pinnock vs Wafer

Postby Lakerholic44 on Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:21 pm

Sky wrote:Pinnock's hoop iq dwarfs Wafer's. Wafter can only create for himself and doesn't run the offense. Pinnock even at this early stage has a better grasp of the triangle than Wafer.

Pinnock has shown the complete package. Create his own shot and set up others, pull up off the dribble and catch and shoot, finish, midrange, 3. Good handles. His man D needs some work, his team D is heady. Smart court awareness, pretty good passer. Wafer is faster laterally, but he was overplaying for steals not manning up.

Pinnock measured 6-4 in shoes with a 6-7 1/2 wingspan and a standing reach of 8-4 1/2. Size is not a big issue. Directional speed defensively is the only area where Pinnock loses out to Wafer. But if Von is overgambling for steals and getting beat off the dribble constantly, that speed edge is irrelevant becuase he isn't using it to defend.


Let's not forget that Von Wafer will turn 21 in about 11 days and Pinnock will turn 23 in December. The two year differenc is something one has to factor in when talking about a young baller such as Wafer.

Wafer has better overall athleticism and is bigger, Pinnock has more experience and a better mental approach to the game. Wafer has the better upside and Pinnock has the game that fits now, but would he get signifcant minutes behind Kobe, Evans, Sasha, Smush, and Farmar?

Sasha had a putrid summer league last year and improved throughout last season. Maybe Wafer will do the same maybe he won't, but there's no denying that he has the better NBA upside, talent, and build. He just needs to start working on the mental aspect and do it quickly.
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Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:50 pm

Wafer looked clueless in Game 1. I did not see game 2 but he got his points during garbage time so I don't know if I give that much credit either. Pinnock only in a few games has already proven to be a better player than Wafer. Wafer is one of those athletic clueless players that come along and either don't make it or struggle to understand the game. There is a lot to be said about a player that understands the game, especially for a team like the Lakers that run a complicated offense. I would take Pinnock hands down. Better IQ, hustle and attitude. To me this isn't even that close. Don't be fooled by Wafer's athleticism. He often tries to show that and ends up getting his dunk attempt blocked in the process. Fool's Gold.
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Postby lotus on Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:21 pm

Usually the players have good skills, but it comes down to whether their skills match with the right system. Case in point, Tim Thomas. He sucked his whole career except for last year with Phoenix. I'd be surprised if he has a duplicate year with the Clippers.

Bottom line for Wafer is that he would be awesome playing for Phoenix where his skills would match their system; on the other hand, Pinnock's skills are good for the triangle.

I'd keep Pinnock and try to trade or just dump Wafer, not because he is not good, but because he lacks the triangle IQ. Contrast Wafer with someone like Luke, who has hardly any skills, but a high triangle IQ.
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Postby jBL on Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:11 pm

Only thing I can remember of Wafer is jacking up shots, trumbling my hearts and two of Laker 05-06 season top 10 plays. (Free throw dunk and dunked on by Snyper :man10: )

I'd go for Pinnock at this point, since he has shown that he possess the guard skills and can create his own shot, which the team lacks outside of Kobe.
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Postby Flatlyner on Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:16 pm

Wafer struggled in the NBDL, doesn't that suggest something? Cut him, give Pinnock a shot. At worst he sucks in the NBDL, did we lose anything??
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Postby trodgers on Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:20 pm

Flatlyner wrote:Wafer struggled in the NBDL, doesn't that suggest something? Cut him, give Pinnock a shot. At worst he sucks in the NBDL, did we lose anything??

Word. Tierre put up two triple doubles, was Finals MVP there. Numerous players averaged more than 15 ppg, big numbers elsewhere. Even Douthit put up solid #s in NBDL.
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Postby Q Deezy on Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:13 pm

From what I heard Pinnock is a baller. We traded for this guy on draft day. The Lakers scouts must have seen something in this guy. You never know he could be the diamond in the ruff and blow up for the lakers. Cant we just sign wafer to a NBDL contract and leave him in our minor leagues? And not use a roster spot? See if in a couple years he gets better. At this point it seems Pinnock >>> Wafer. Keep Pinnock. Get rid of Mckie... Sasha, Wafer, and Green to the NBDL.
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Postby A Rush on Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:09 am

Q Deezy wrote: Cant we just sign wafer to a NBDL contract and leave him in our minor leagues? And not use a roster spot?


No.
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Postby kentu_tiro on Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:03 pm

Sky wrote:You should judge a guy based on his impact on the floor. Wafer lacks the mental, Sasha lacks the physical, and the weakness of each is obvious on the floor.

la - You can coach a guy to defend instead of solely playing for steals. Wafer hasn't learned that one yet. Until he does his physical advantage in lateral speed is wasted.

I'm all for cutting Sasha and Mckie but both are under contract. Rambis has said what they want to see from Wafer is running the offense. He's not doing it. He's only creating for himself. If there's a choice for final roster spot between Pinnock and Wafer it's not close. Pinnock. Vastly superior hoop iq, better passer, more versatile shooter. Wafer is a better dunker, and a better athlete, but not a better player.


When you think about it, Wafer's game would be perfect for Phoenix. Their game doesn't require you to be cerebral. When you're free, you shoot! It's that simple. He'll be a hell of a scorer for them if given the green light to shoot everytime he's open.
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Postby DNP on Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:24 am

watching wafer at spl, his guaranteed spot will most likely in nbdl. pinnock is outplaying and outhustling wafer. i don't think wafer is even going to hawaii. wafer isn't running the offense that's why he's riding the bench in spl.
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