Kobe at U.S Woman's Soccer Gold Medal Game

Kobe at U.S Woman's Soccer Gold Medal Game

Postby westcoast21 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:39 pm

He was there with Vanessa and one of his kids. I think it was Natalia. Im not sure though. But it was good to see him there supporting the U.S Soccer team. They beat Brazil 1-0 btw, great game.
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Postby CrazyLikeCatfish on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:48 pm

Kobe's presence is what pushed them to victory :mhihi: I'm glad we won though, take that Brazil!
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:52 pm

He got to witness a great game. These two teams play each other very hard. No more dancing for you Marta and Christian :man10:
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Postby KB24 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:53 pm

Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.
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Postby westcoast21 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:05 pm

KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.
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Postby LDR on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Darn it, missed the game. :man5:
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Postby Kou on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:41 pm

westcoast21 wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.


I can't think of many other sports if any where you can dominate for 90 minutes and lose in a second.
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:14 pm

Kou wrote:
westcoast21 wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.


I can't think of many other sports if any where you can dominate for 90 minutes and lose in a second.


I didn't see that Brazil dominated for 90 minutes this was a back and forth game. There were hard tackles and a lot of fouls (which went uncalled). Both teams had many chances Brazil having some great corner-kick chances. The US had just as many breaks as Brazil did I would say Brazil had some greater one v one chances with Marta and Christian but thats because those girls are the best in the game.

I could agree that Brazil should of won because the US lacked its size but the US defense played superb backing each other up. The Brazilians however did what they usually do and tried to go for the "BIG GOAL" instead of really using there great passing to their advantage. Either way this game was anyones to have and it was chippy, hard fought and the USA's heart outmatched Brazil's depth in the attack.
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Postby LakRfAn on Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:41 pm

Brazil controlled the game in the first 50 minutes or so and the US midfield seemed shaky... Lots of give-aways in the midfield, trouble keeping Brazil out of their half, allowing Brazil time on the ball to pass it around, etc...

But when fatigue started factoring in for both teams, you could see the US grow more and more confident. I thought the US definitely controlled the last 1/2hr of regulation and meaningful parts of the extra time
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Postby Ice Laker on Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:00 pm

If you dominate a game but can´t finish the game off you don´t deserve to win. Period.

That´s actually what I love about soccer. The so called better team doesn´t always automatically win.
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Postby Neville on Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:51 pm

westcoast21 wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.


This tells me that even though Brazil had more opportunities, we won all the key moments in the game, and that's all you need.
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Postby westcoast21 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:00 pm

Kou wrote:
westcoast21 wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.


I can't think of many other sports if any where you can dominate for 90 minutes and lose in a second.


You can dominate a baseball game and lose on a walk off homerun.

You can dominate a football game and lose on a miracle hail mary or another big play.

You can dominate a basketball game and lose on a 3 pointer to end the game.

You can dominate a boxing match and get KO'd.

Thats my point.


Brazil controlled the game in the first 50 minutes or so and the US midfield seemed shaky... Lots of give-aways in the midfield, trouble keeping Brazil out of their half, allowing Brazil time on the ball to pass it around, etc...

But when fatigue started factoring in for both teams, you could see the US grow more and more confident. I thought the US definitely controlled the last 1/2hr of regulation and meaningful parts of the extra time


And USA was making a lot of those errors like you said. Some were due to pressure. But also they were making mistakes when no pressure was on. But it wasnt like Brazil dominated the whole 90 minutes. The first part of the game belong to Brazil, second part belonged to the US.

If your given so many opportunities like Brazil was given and your not able to execute, you do not deserve to win. I coach Club soccer. My teams have dominated teams, they have out-shot teams, but they have still loss some of those games because soccer comes down to who makes that one key mistake.
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Postby KB24 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:18 pm

westcoast...

soccer is different. In baseball or basketball the entire performence counts...you have 9 innings to play and then the entire performence comes into play.

In soccer there is no such a thing.

If you play football or basketball...and you lose all game long, then you trail by 50 and you lose. If you play soccer, you aren't gonna win if you play better as long as you don't score.

baseball is SOMEWHAT comperable but even then, you need good pitching to keep you in the game. Soccer is really one of a kind in that regard since they don't score too often. If you run out of luck and dominate 90 minutes you lose.

boxing, thats definitly true. You can dominate all game and lose if the other lands a good punch.

In other sports teams constantly score and its easier for the dominant team to seperate themselves from the opposition.
Last edited by KB24 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:24 pm

westcoast21 wrote:
Kou wrote:
westcoast21 wrote:
KB24@CL wrote:Brasil should have won...altho I was rooting for the US girls and I'm very happy they won...

but Brasil actually deserved it more. Thats what I hate about soccer...you can easily be the better team and easily lose.


Deserved it more?

Im not going to lie, I thought Brazil would win because the U.S did not have Wambach but the U.S fought hard and showed they deserved to win.

You say that the thing you hate about Soccer is that you can be the better team and easily lose, well isnt that true about all sports?

Brazil had MANY chances, including 10+ corner kicks, about 3-4 free kicks outside the box and they didnt capitalize. The U.S got the one goal they needed and they came out as the winners after being the under dogs.


I can't think of many other sports if any where you can dominate for 90 minutes and lose in a second.


You can dominate a baseball game and lose on a walk off homerun.

You can dominate a football game and lose on a miracle hail mary or another big play.

You can dominate a basketball game and lose on a 3 pointer to end the game.

You can dominate a boxing match and get KO'd.

Thats my point.

.


In all those cases one thing rings true......... None of them actually dominated. I'll break your examples down in my own words-

Baseball-
If a team is a homer away then you really didn't dominate. If you had a pitchers duel with a zero-zero score into the 9th and one team gets a homer which team actually dominated. If the one team has a 3 run lead going into the bottom of the 9th and gives up a grandslam (the only 4 hits of the game) did they dominate the game? No, they just played better for longer.

Football-
If a team is within a score of you you aren't dominating the team. You can have a great defensive game but the offense isnt doing anything alla the Bears a couple of years ago. If they are within striking distance you have only played better.

Basketball-
Again if a team is within a single score how can you say they dominated? Just because they have the better stats the other team is still within striking distance (see the trend here)

Boxing-
I agree with you on this one because a fighter can damn near be knocked out and swing wildly and KO his opponent.



The point I am making is that the US knew that Brazil was quicker and had the better ball handlers. What did they do to try and stop it? They packed in the defense and wore Brazil out. Yes there were mistakes in the US's defense but the TEAM backed each other up and Hope Solo made a couple of great saves. Did they give up a lot of corner kicks? Yes, but they defended them very well too. As a soccer fan I saw the US bide its time and attacked when it could get some great chances. They matched Brazils physical play and Brazil finally got to tired to keep it up. For all the dribbling and 2 touch passes they had it was all fluff and no bite. Kinda like Vince Carter playing ball he can dunk with the best of them but he can't bring it to the table when it counted. On this day the USA's gameplan and stamina beat a much more individually talented Brazil team. Doesn't that sound alot like Argentina, Spain and Lithuania beating the USA Basketball teams in the last Olympics and World Championships? We had the better individual talent they played the better team ball. Who dominated?
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Postby westcoast21 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:58 am

So what you are saying is that a team cannot dominate in baseball, football or basketball?

Your telling me a team can dominate for nine innings, lets say a team is up 8 runs, the other team cannot score 9 and win?

Football, a team can dominate 3 quarters and be up by 21 points in the fourth, the other team cannot score four td's and win?

basketball, a team cannot dominate and lose in the fourth. A team can be up 13 and the other team cannot outscore the team 27-9 and win? Suns - Mavs game?
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:55 am

westcoast21 wrote:So what you are saying is that a team cannot dominate in baseball, football or basketball?

Your telling me a team can dominate for nine innings, lets say a team is up 8 runs, the other team cannot score 9 and win?

Football, a team can dominate 3 quarters and be up by 21 points in the fourth, the other team cannot score four td's and win?

basketball, a team cannot dominate and lose in the fourth. A team can be up 13 and the other team cannot outscore the team 27-9 and win? Suns - Mavs game?


In my mind (the key point being my) they only way you can say you dominated someone is if you WIN. I guess I just can't understand how you can see any of those as dominating when the teams in your examples lost.

So answer this. If a basketball team (A) gets out to a 30-9 1st qtr. Then are up 45-20 at half time. Only to be tied 90-90 with 3 seconds to go then team (A) gets a layup and wins the game 92-90. Did Team A dominate the game or just the first half? Did Team B dominate the 2nd half or did they not dominate at all?

I guess my main question would be how long and how far do you need to be ahead to consider it a dominating game if you still lose?
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Postby KB24 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:07 pm

exactly puffy...

the point is sports that can be decided within one second...one action...

if a basketball team goes on a 20-2 run, then thats not something that heppens in a second. That means the other team isn't exactly dominant all game.

In football the same.

In boxing or soccer, its one punch, one shot, one hit that makes or breaks the game...

and as I said soccer is a game that is always decided by that one or 2 actions. Its not a game like basketball where teams constantly score and change their position and gain an advantage. The better team won't be able to capitalize unless that goal falls.

In soccer if the score after 90 minutes is 0-0 it means absolutely nothing for the better team. Your position is the same and the effort goes to waste.

In baseball if the score is 0-0 after 8 innings, then it means good pitching for both teams and one has hardly dominated...if a team leads 8-0 and then the other team scores 9 in the last inning, it is SOMEWHAT comparable to soccer but still if the other team scores 9 in the last inning, that means the dominant team has sucked in the 9th inning which means no dominance for the entire time after all.

but no need to argue much. One has a different view than the other, its ok.
Last edited by KB24 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TXLAKERFAN on Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:19 pm

Part of playing better and "dominating" a soccer game IMO would include scoring goals. Brazil didn't therefore I can't say they were dominating the soccer match at all. Possibley playing better but definitely not dominating. And that goes for all sports. If a football team is dominating another team then IMO that means the offense is basically scoring at will and the defense is shutting down the other team thus not allowing a last minute victory etc...
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:33 pm

KB24- Definately agree and see where you are coming from.
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:48 pm

Another thing I thought about that isn't getting much credit is that the US defensive tactics. We all know that Brazil has two (if not three) of the best individual offensive players in womens soccer. If you watched the game you saw that the US played basically a defensive-minded game for 75+ minutes taking chances whent they arose. Everytime Marta or Christian got the ball within the 18 they were double-teamed. Some see the shots that Marta put on the goal as Brazil being and performing more superior when infact it was great individual effort by her to get the shot off. Brandi Chastain (US Commentator) stated the fact that she gets off incredible shots when no one could possibly do it. Stopping her is like saying a double-team can really stop Kobe. Just like Kobe you can only hope to contain the Brazillian strikers. Coach Pia understood that fact and dropped the US defense back and eventually wore the brazillians out. I have heard the US players talk about the "Bend but don't break" tactics they used and this time it worked.

I think the better "Team" won and dictated how the game was played. I know the best "Players" did not win this game.
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Postby borri on Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:25 am

westcoast21 wrote:So what you are saying is that a team cannot dominate in baseball, football or basketball?

Your telling me a team can dominate for nine innings, lets say a team is up 8 runs, the other team cannot score 9 and win?

Football, a team can dominate 3 quarters and be up by 21 points in the fourth, the other team cannot score four td's and win?

basketball, a team cannot dominate and lose in the fourth. A team can be up 13 and the other team cannot outscore the team 27-9 and win? Suns - Mavs game?


1. How often do teams put up 9 runs in the bot of the 9th or top of the 9th? Not often at all. Really how often do teams put up 3-4 runs in the bot of the 9th? The rate of blown saves is probably 10% league wide.

2. How often can a team put up 3 TD's and give up 0 pts in the 4th? Not often. That Buffalo comeback versus the Oilers don't happen very often...........once in a decade.

3. How often do the Suns - Mavs type of games happen? Not often. Maybe 5% of games end up that way.

Whereas in Soccer, you CAN dominate for 89 minutes and have one 30 sec mental lapse and you lose! This happens ALOT in soccer. Why? It's hard to score goals that's why. A team can just defend like heck and hope for a quick counter attack on a mistake to win.

If you watch World Cup soccer.....see Paraguay in the 94' 98' world cups. All they did was play D and counter attack. They got past the group stage.

Also see Italy. Defense first. Let the opposing team dominate possesion and scoring opportunities but don't concede a goal. Wait for an opening and score.

Soccer is a totally different game man.
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Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:42 am

I still think people are missing the forrest because of the trees.

Borri-

to use your example of paraguay if they chose to play D and then counter attack then they were not dominated. Unfortunately, in soccer time of possession and what 3rd of the field the ball is in determines who gets the overall credit. If the Paraguayans found it smarter to defend and counter attack and it worked wouldn't that infact mean they dominated the game?


Yes, I agree since soccer is a game of low scores a game can infact be changed by one single kick, one bad call, one well timed flop but in my mind it isn't the norm. I think a team can dominate possession of the ball and not dominate a game. Take Brazillian women vs the Germans, the Germans have a great defense and keep possession using effective passing to get there chances. Those chances often come of set-pieces while the Brazillians use great individual skills, crisp passing and speed to attack at every chance. The Germans usually have the ball more in these games yet the Brazillians usually have more quality shots on goal.

The USA didn't have the most time with the ball or the ball in their forward third more than Brazil but the US did have many more quality shots on goal especially the last 75 minutes.

Anyway I think we are all going in circles here so i'll bow out gracefully and let others have a say.
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Postby borri on Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:18 am

Borri-

to use your example of paraguay if they chose to play D and then counter attack then they were not dominated. Unfortunately, in soccer time of possession and what 3rd of the field the ball is in determines who gets the overall credit. If the Paraguayans found it smarter to defend and counter attack and it worked wouldn't that infact mean they dominated the game?


If that's how you want to define "dominate a game." It is also a bad spin to prove your point. According to your definition, any team in soccer can dominate a game. Which I find to be a tad bit disconcerting...........as i don't think anyone who recalled those Paraguay games would characterize their performance as "dominating." Being outpossessioned, out shot, out passed is something that one would NOT call dominating a game.

In addition, it's not like Paraguay has a choice on how to play. They lacked the attacking and midfield talent to assert a legitimate offensive threat. Any soccer team with these "deficits" facing a better opponent would do exactly what Paraguay did. Make it almost impossible for the opponent to score by bringing everyone back to defend.....hoping for a mistake or getting it to PK's....where luck is more important than skill.

I think you are reaching for straws with this argument my friend.
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