D-WADE left off TEAM USA?

D-WADE left off TEAM USA?

Postby SportsfanPJ on Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:56 pm

came across this article on ESPN...after reading the article, read the user comments!!!!

know, I know, who's even thinking about Team USA at this point?

TrueHoop reader Kirk, is, that's who. And he sent me a lengthy and impassioned email detailing why he thinks Wade should not be on Team USA.

To me he represents (as a basketball player, not as a person) the pinnacle of what is wrong with American basketball. He destroys the potential of basketball, as described by Chuck Klosterman, by making a mockery of the rules through falling down every time he shoots, be it lay up or jump shot.

He travels, often, and doesn't get called for it.

Frankly, I don't think he plays basketball the way it was meant to be played.

My dislike aside, the story got me thinking on something that needs to be addressed sooner or later: why is D-Wade virtually guaranteed a roster spot on the 2008 Olympic roster? For two years it has been a "forgone conclusion that D-Wade would be one of the stars of the 2008 roster, despite the fact that he was injured last summer and wasn't able to play.

I don't see where he fits in, at least when you compare statistics. I don't see how he fits in at point guard (he averaged 2.75 assists and 2.38 turnovers in 23 minutes of action), not when compared to Jason Kidd who averaged 4.6 assists and 0.5 turnovers in only 16 minutes of play in the 2007 Americas Tournament. Nor does he compare with Deron Williams, who averaged 4.6 assists and one turnover in 14.3 minutes.

His 2006 teammate Chris Paul (who has to be on the 2008 roster) averaged 5.2 assists and 1.2 turnovers in 23 minutes of action.

And, while yes, D-Wade can score, where is he going to get minutes when you have LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Kobe Bryant who were true go-to players this last summer?

Redd is a better pure shooter and every team needs a specialist like him. What does he bring to the team? In a word  turnovers. But, he also dominates the ball and does not know or hasn't learned how to play without it. Don't get me wrong, when he is on (see the 2006 3rd place game in Japan) he is dominant. I know the competition was better in 2006.

But the chemistry in 2007 was amazing. It reminded be of the beauty of basketball. The problem is D-Wade doesn't add to the chemistry, he takes away from it. Kidd, Williams, Paul, LeBron, Kobe, Redd, even Joe Johnson, Tayshaun Prince, and Carmelo Anthony (if you consider them back court since team USA runs a lot of 4 out, 1 in sets); these are the guys I want playing to win.

As great of a player as D-Wade is in the NBA, his game does not translate to international, team-oriented basketball. I really, truly believe he does not need to be on the national team.

I know this is out of left field considering its winter of 2007 still. The Dream team and the aura surrounding it dominates my memory of basketball when I was young, almost forming an archetype of how basketball can and should be played. I had never seem anything come close to the reality of that archetype until last summer. I hope we can win. I know we can win. USA!

First things first: Kirk is a Dallas fan, and his email was inspired at least in part by ugly feelings born of the 2006 Finals. So, as he confesses, he has something of an agenda.

Also, I find the statistical comparisons to point guards misleading, because although Wade brings the ball up once in a while, he does so mainly as an easier way to get himself in a strong position to score.

He's just not a point guard, and should not be judged as such. He's a supreme, multi-faceted and efficient scorer (last year he led the NBA in PER in short minutes), along the lines of Bryant, James, and Anthony.

I 100% hear the call for role players, great chemistry, and Playing the Right Way. I'm on board.

If LeBron James and Kobe Bryant are going to dominate shooting, I would much rather have that fourth wing player be the defending and rebounding Tayshaun Prince instead of the smaller Wade.

And it was plain to see that things turned out well for that team last summer. Who wants to mess with that roster?

I'm not convinced, however, that Wade deserves to be singled out as the "bad" superstar. In fact, if you were to say you only wanted three go-to scorers, I'm not sure how you'd pick out of those four.

The decision should be driven by basketball strategy.

I'll take a crude stab at how I might decide it if I were Jerry Colangelo. In a tournament that will place a premium on clever defense, ball movement, length, and long-distance shooting, how many multi-faceted, first-option, perimeter scorers do you want to play at once? I'm thinking you want a real point guard at all times, and some kind of big man just about all the time. I also like having a role player who won't need the ball for long periods to help the team, like Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Shawn Marion, Redd, or Prince.

That leaves two spots for, essentially, ballhogs.

And let's not forget that the tournament features an insane number of games in short succession. You don't want to play anyone long minutes. So, the question is, do you want four perimeter scorers who play twenty minutes each in close games -- at the expense of the last player on your bench, who would be a real role player -- or three guys who average thirty minutes each?

I could see the argument for either, but would probably lean towards just carrying three and making that twelfth player an especially good defender. It's not like you won't be able to score, with guys like Michael Redd and Deron Williams as your third and fourth options.

Most likely, life will handle this decision for Jerry Colangelo. The way the NBA is, it's extremely unlikely all four will be ready to play on this team. Whether through injury, fatigue, personal reasons, the birth of a child, or whatever, I bet at least one of the foursome of Bryant, James, Anthony, and Wade will suit up in Beijing. And if Wade is on the team in place of Anthony, say, or James, it will be a different team, to be sure, but it's hard for me to believe Team USA will be doomed.






http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-2 ... ?post=true
Last edited by SportsfanPJ on Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby L4L on Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:04 pm

Link?
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Postby Radner on Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:37 pm

We don't need him.
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Postby Weezy on Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:39 pm

Didn't read the whole article, but he should be off the team, he's already shown his game isn't suited for international play. He has a poor jumper and without the refs giving him all the calls he's a one demensional player, forced to go for layups and dunks. We have Kobe and Redd, why the need for Wade? It's nothing against Wade, if it's an NBA All-Star game of course he belongs because his game is suited for the NBA, it's just not for international play.
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Postby Ras Algethi on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:18 pm

Cliff notes?
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Postby Radner on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:25 pm

Weezy wrote:Didn't read the whole article, but he should be off the team, he's already shown his game isn't suited for international play. He has a poor jumper and without the refs giving him all the calls he's a one demensional player, forced to go for layups and dunks. We have Kobe and Redd, why the need for Wade? It's nothing against Wade, if it's an NBA All-Star game of course he belongs because his game is suited for the NBA, it's just not for international play.


Mike Miller deseves to be on the team more than Wade.
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Postby Critical Beatdown on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:32 pm

Wade should definitely be on the team, the guy is phenomenal.
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Postby Weezy on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:35 pm

Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade should definitely be on the team, the guy is phenomenal.


I don't think the argument is that he's not a great NBA player, it's does he fit a need. This isn't just a bunch of stars thrown together anymore, there are role players on the team. I think Redd fits international ball more than Wade, he can shoot lights out as he did during the summer Team USA games. Wade struggled when he was on the team. Doesn't mean Wade isn't good, just not suited for international play, no need for big names for big names sake.
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Postby KB+KG=DOMINATION on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:40 pm

Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade should definitely be on the team, the guy is phenomenal.


i can give 100 reasons why chris bosh should make it over wade
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Postby Congo Cash on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:03 am

Wade sucks on international play. Questionable jumper, can't shoot 3's, and he won't get that much free throws.
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Postby kray28 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:17 am

There are already enough quality guards, and most of them already do what Wade does, better. The other guys are better shooters, slashers, dunkers, handlers, and passers. He's redundant, and he doesn't play defense.

In any case, if he wants to take Kobe's place, I won't complain. I never wanted Kobe to play in the summer anyway.
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Postby Critical Beatdown on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:21 am

Wade is a Top 3 player in the NBA. If he wants to be on the team, he should be on the team, and someone else should go.

The notion that Wade wouldn't be good in an international setting is absurd, the guy dominates anyone, whether in the NBA, in the Euroleague, wherever. He didn't play up to par last time, but neither did a bunch of guys on the team.
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Postby grego on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:17 am

KB+KG=DOMINATION wrote:
Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade should definitely be on the team, the guy is phenomenal.


i can give 100 reasons why chris bosh should make it over wade


That's a horrible argument. The guys bring two completely different things, whether it is in the NBA or international ball due to their size and the way they play the game.
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Postby dj vitus on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:33 am

Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade is a Top 3 player in the NBA. If he wants to be on the team, he should be on the team, and someone else should go.

The notion that Wade wouldn't be good in an international setting is absurd, the guy dominates anyone, whether in the NBA, in the Euroleague, wherever. He didn't play up to par last time, but neither did a bunch of guys on the team.

And a bunch of guys didn't deserve to be on the team, either. Inexperience and an unbalanced roster with no true PG and having just one big man killed us.

Like one of the posters said, you need a true PG at all times, a dominant big man in the middle, two ballhogs, and a role player (or solid defender/tough guy/clean-up guy).

Magic, Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Ewing
Kidd, Carter, Houston, Garnett, Alonzo

Guys have specific roles on the team.

You also need sharp-shooters. Hence the addition of Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, and Ray Allen, for example.

Wade may seem to deserve a spot, but everything he brings to the table can already be outmatched by another wing player.

Scoring: Kobe, LBJ
Outside shooting: Redd, Miller, and pretty much half the team
Ball handling: Kidd, Billups, Deron (Wade averages over 4 TOs per game, FYI)
Defense: Prince, Carmelo, Kobe, Kidd, Billups, Deron...

I don't doubt that Wade can dominate international competition. In fact, throw Wade in the Euroleague and he'll win the MVP for many, many years.

It takes a strategic TEAM to win an Olympic competition and Wade doesn't have a specific talent that outshines the rest other than maybe scoring and attacking the basket. Unfortunately, like everyone else said, you don't get as many calls as you're used to when you drive down the lane, so outside shooting is more pivotal.
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Postby ladam24 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:41 am

Team USA doesn't need him or his traveling violations.

Dwyane Wade is a great NBA player, and a crappy international player, where they actually enforce the rules.
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Postby ZenMaster4President on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:51 am

Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade is a Top 3 player in the NBA. If he wants to be on the team, he should be on the team, and someone else should go.

The notion that Wade wouldn't be good in an international setting is absurd, the guy dominates anyone, whether in the NBA, in the Euroleague, wherever. He didn't play up to par last time, but neither did a bunch of guys on the team.


I am sorry - how is the FACT that he is not good in an international setting becomes the NOTION that he WOULDN'T be good? You do realize that he has already played in the FIBA? It's not like people speculate before seeing him play...

I'd much rather have Paul or Deron over him.
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Postby nameant on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:39 am

Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade is a Top 3 player in the NBA. If he wants to be on the team, he should be on the team, and someone else should go.

The notion that Wade wouldn't be good in an international setting is absurd, the guy dominates anyone, whether in the NBA, in the Euroleague, wherever. He didn't play up to par last time, but neither did a bunch of guys on the team.


1) He's NOT a top 3 player in the NBA.
2) This isn't the NBA.
3) He did NOT dominate in Olympic play thus far, why would he now?

You honestly think Wade is better than or equal to KG, Kobe, LBJ, Duncan, Howard right now? I could throw in more just for arguments sake, but those guys are playing the best right now.
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Postby abeer3 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:36 am

nameant wrote:
Critical Beatdown wrote:Wade is a Top 3 player in the NBA. If he wants to be on the team, he should be on the team, and someone else should go.

The notion that Wade wouldn't be good in an international setting is absurd, the guy dominates anyone, whether in the NBA, in the Euroleague, wherever. He didn't play up to par last time, but neither did a bunch of guys on the team.


1) He's NOT a top 3 player in the NBA.
2) This isn't the NBA.
3) He did NOT dominate in Olympic play thus far, why would he now?

You honestly think Wade is better than or equal to KG, Kobe, LBJ, Duncan, Howard right now? I could throw in more just for arguments sake, but those guys are playing the best right now.


yep. take away the whistles and allow a true zone defense, and wade looks far less effective. just the facts. redd is a much more effective player in international ball, not to mention kobe and melo. lbj is slightly more effective because of his ability to play pf against most euro teams. wade simply isn't necessary and takes up a spot that could be better used. now, if kobe, lbj, and melo can't make it...
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Postby halekulani on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:46 am

wade's individual contribution will not compare to the chemistry team usa has right now

individual talent < team

unless wade turns into the best PG in the game, he's not taking anybody's spot.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:51 am

Anyone who says Wade shouldn't be on Team USA for ANY reason is crazy. He's a superstar, let it go.
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Postby KB24 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:03 am

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:Anyone who says Wade shouldn't be on Team USA for ANY reason is crazy. He's a superstar, let it go.


I tend to agree...while Wade wasn´t lights out 2006 world championships, he shot 59% from the floor...

he certainly isn´t going to make or break team USA and I wouldn´t be too worried about him being on the team or not but he is a competetive guy that can take over and excel under pressure. thats a guy I always would want on my team...
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Postby . on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:56 am

i will pray he is not on the team
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Postby Radner on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:29 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:Anyone who says Wade shouldn't be on Team USA for ANY reason is crazy. He's a superstar, let it go.


We need shooting more than anything. It seems the U.S. hasn't learned that a team wins international games not a group of allstars especially a repetitive one like Wade.
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Postby Weezy on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:15 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:Anyone who says Wade shouldn't be on Team USA for ANY reason is crazy. He's a superstar, let it go.


I don't agree with that, I say he shouldn't be because he doesn't fill a need, what need does he fill? Redd can shoot, he can't. We need shooters on the team or we get exposed by the zone defenses, it's been proven. We need roles filled, role players, you can't just throw superstars out there and hope they win, that's the whole entire point of this version of Team USA, it's not all superstarts, there's defenders and shooters. Wade would take a spot from a shooter and we already showed how good we were without him so why do we need him?
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Postby SportsfanPJ on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:31 pm

Wade doesn't not fulfill any of team USA's needs

he doesn't deserve a roster spot over "role players" like Joe Johnson (sniper) and Tayshaun Prince (defender)
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