D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:25 pm

If it's all about his injuries though with his piss poor attitude, then why doesn't he freaking clarify what his unhappiness is about? You know something professional and PC like, "I'm really frustrated right now because I want to do more to help us win and get to the playoffs. But it is a process now with both injuries and I'm working through it." Why he doesn't say that is because the big baby wears his emotions on his sleeve and truthfully he is not happy in L.A. for other reasons. Not that he can't help more. I think most of us read him that way.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:29 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:If it's all about his injuries though with his piss poor attitude, then why doesn't he freaking clarify what his unhappiness is about? You know something professional and PC like, "I'm really frustrated right now because I want to do more to help us win and get to the playoffs. But it is a process now with both injuries and I'm working through it." Why he doesn't say that is because the big baby wears his emotions on his sleeve and truthfully he is not happy in L.A. for other reasons. Not that he can't help more. I think most of us read him that way.


"why cant the baby just get over it?"

"Dwight STFU & just play!"

"Instead of being frustrated to something about it & play!"

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Anything he says is taken out of context.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:31 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:If it's all about his injuries though with his piss poor attitude, then why doesn't he freaking clarify what his unhappiness is about? You know something professional and PC like, "I'm really frustrated right now because I want to do more to help us win and get to the playoffs. But it is a process now with both injuries and I'm working through it." Why he doesn't say that is because the big baby wears his emotions on his sleeve and truthfully he is not happy in L.A. for other reasons. Not that he can't help more. I think most of us read him that way.

Because it all feeds into each other.

I'll put it this way: at work one of my favorite people was let go one year. He was my best friend in the office and that really robbed me of someone to talk to day in and day out. Mentally I had a hard time with it, my work started to slip. I'd go home unhappy and my significant other would think I was mad at her. She was more stressed out. She thought we had some sort of issue between us. The stress caused me some health problems internally. Physically I wasn't as attentive because I wasn't motivated and that lead to a couple of injuries when playing ball or lifting.

In the end I finally figured out the cause of my frustration was my friend being fired. I left the company and things started to right themselves. But it took me close to a year to figure that all out.

So physically Dwight might be struggling. That struggle will lead to frustration. Frustration leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:32 pm

khmrP wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.


so you're telling me Bynum never had 9/8 type of nights as a Laker and was pretty much invisible?


of course he did. so does kobe, so does lebron, so does melo.

but bynum's effort level playing with his injuries is more apparent than what we're getting from dwight. am i wrong?

i hate to bring this back, but it was brought up.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:36 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.


so you're telling me Bynum never had 9/8 type of nights as a Laker and was pretty much invisible?


of course he did. so does kobe, so does lebron, so does melo.

but bynum's effort level playing with his injuries is more apparent than what we're getting from dwight. am i wrong?

i hate to bring this back, but it was brought up.


Bynum would be so lazy on the court when he didn't get a pass from Kobe it's not even funny. When he brought it he really brought it but not every night, definitely not every night...but I don't want to get into a Bynum/Dwight debate all over again.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby 7cody on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:36 pm

Dwight wouldn't be cleared to play if he wasn't capable of playing at a high level, health-wise. The doctors are smarter then we are. Also, when I watch Dwight play, I don't see him in pain, I just see him walking around, not boxing out, going through the motions... smiling when we're getting blown out, not hustling

However, that's just my personal observation. Dwight isn't a winner, and as such we should only keep him if he accepts a lower role and salary. In other words, we shouldn't keep him -- I know he can be great, but I don't agree with keeping anyone that doesn't want to play hard for the team. If they don't want to be here, get rid of them. But then that begs the question of whether or not he really wants to be here. Who the hell knows, but from what I can see, hell no he doesn't.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:38 pm

7cody wrote:Dwight wouldn't be cleared to play if he wasn't capable of playing at a high level, health-wise. The doctors are smarter then we are. Also, when I watch Dwight play, I don't see him in pain, I just see him walking around, not boxing out, going through the motions... smiling when we're getting blown out, not hustling

However, that's just my personal observation. Dwight isn't a winner, and as such we should only keep him if he accepts a lower role and salary. In other words, we shouldn't keep him -- I know he can be great, but I don't agree with keeping anyone that doesn't want to play hard for the team. If they don't want to be here, get rid of them. But then that begs the question of whether or not he really wants to be here. Who the hell knows, but from what I can see, hell no he doesn't.

I'm sorry but I disagree with almost every word in this post.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby 7cody on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:40 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.


so you're telling me Bynum never had 9/8 type of nights as a Laker and was pretty much invisible?


of course he did. so does kobe, so does lebron, so does melo.

but bynum's effort level playing with his injuries is more apparent than what we're getting from dwight. am i wrong?

i hate to bring this back, but it was brought up.


Bynum would be so lazy on the court when he didn't get a pass from Kobe it's not even funny. When he brought it he really brought it but not every night, definitely not every night...but I don't want to get into a Bynum/Dwight debate all over again.


Personally, Kobe is the only big name player we've had that never takes a night off. That's my opinion. Shaq played for championships, no doubt, but he took plenty of nights off. I can't imagine Shaq taking nights off when we're missing the playoffs, though, that's for sure

I don't remember Bynum as a player that plays his heart out, like Kobe
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby 7cody on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:43 pm

therealdeal wrote:
7cody wrote:Dwight wouldn't be cleared to play if he wasn't capable of playing at a high level, health-wise. The doctors are smarter then we are. Also, when I watch Dwight play, I don't see him in pain, I just see him walking around, not boxing out, going through the motions... smiling when we're getting blown out, not hustling

However, that's just my personal observation. Dwight isn't a winner, and as such we should only keep him if he accepts a lower role and salary. In other words, we shouldn't keep him -- I know he can be great, but I don't agree with keeping anyone that doesn't want to play hard for the team. If they don't want to be here, get rid of them. But then that begs the question of whether or not he really wants to be here. Who the hell knows, but from what I can see, hell no he doesn't.

I'm sorry but I disagree with almost every word in this post.


No one would agree with everything, that's why it's an opinion

But just to clarify, you believe that:

Dwight boxes out on a consistent basis (i've already watched film to clarify this)
Team doctors would clear Dwight Howard to play when he's not healthy enough to play at a high level
Dwight is currently playing as hard as he can to make the playoffs

Not agreeing that he isn't a winner yadda yadda is no big deal, I don't know Dwight personally, but he strikes me as someone that isn't a winner on what limited amount of time I get to know him with my eyes through the television
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:48 pm

therealdeal wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:If it's all about his injuries though with his piss poor attitude, then why doesn't he freaking clarify what his unhappiness is about? You know something professional and PC like, "I'm really frustrated right now because I want to do more to help us win and get to the playoffs. But it is a process now with both injuries and I'm working through it." Why he doesn't say that is because the big baby wears his emotions on his sleeve and truthfully he is not happy in L.A. for other reasons. Not that he can't help more. I think most of us read him that way.

Because it all feeds into each other.

I'll put it this way: at work one of my favorite people was let go one year. He was my best friend in the office and that really robbed me of someone to talk to day in and day out. Mentally I had a hard time with it, my work started to slip. I'd go home unhappy and my significant other would think I was mad at her. She was more stressed out. She thought we had some sort of issue between us. The stress caused me some health problems internally. Physically I wasn't as attentive because I wasn't motivated and that lead to a couple of injuries when playing ball or lifting.


In the end I finally figured out the cause of my frustration was my friend being fired. I left the company and things started to right themselves. But it took me close to a year to figure that all out.

So physically Dwight might be struggling. That struggle will lead to frustration. Frustration leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...


OK. But. If that is what is bringing him down so much, the stuff he normally can do and how he dominates if he weren't coming off the back and now the shoulder, then WHY so much made about him wanting more touches and more stats and griping to others about Kobe. He gets hammered when he gets it in the key and he can't power through guys. Again my and others' take is he is pissed because he's nowhere near the MAN here that he is used to being. He feels entitiled to be treated that way even when he is currently a shell of himself. This is not a guy about the team. He should be happy others are here to take a lot of that pressure off him and the pounding that comes with.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Weezy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:56 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:
Weezy wrote:I didn't say that injury was only an excuse and not a factor, I said YOU only make excuses for the guy. I can't remember a single time you weren't making an excuse for him when he was being discussed. Whether it was about he and Kobe behind friends and media reports being false (which we can all see is false from so many comments from both of them, Dwight not having fun, Kobe not caring if Dwight is here or not), to injury, to whether it not Dwight cares or is giving full effort. It's nothing but excuses for his play and behavior/attitude, nothing ever seems to be his fault or truly negative when it comes to Dwight with you, and that makes no sense as no player is above scrutiny or criticism when they deserve it, not even Kobe.


The reason I defend him is because I saw A LOT of Dwight in Orlando with league pass & I know how he plays & what he is capable of. Many Laker fans here mention the injury but in all honesty ignore it's effect on him. Like I said, I agree that he lacks effort on SOME nights but I can give him that pass on his play (not effort) because I definitely know what he can bring when healthy & I know this isn't mostly about effort how you seem to think it is. No player is above criticism like you said that is why I say effort is his weak point some nights but you guys treat Howard like your own personal piñata just like you do with Pau. If Dwight was healthy & playing like crap I would agree with you 100% but seeing as how Dwight played through being in ORL while wanting out I cannot agree with you.


Knowing what he's capable of only makes what we're seeing worse IMO. And IMO he lacks effort on just as many night as he shows it, if not the majority of the time. I'm tired of the injury excuse too, plenty of players play injured, if he's too injured to give maximum effort he shouldn't be playing then.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:04 pm

7cody wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
7cody wrote:Dwight wouldn't be cleared to play if he wasn't capable of playing at a high level, health-wise. The doctors are smarter then we are. Also, when I watch Dwight play, I don't see him in pain, I just see him walking around, not boxing out, going through the motions... smiling when we're getting blown out, not hustling

However, that's just my personal observation. Dwight isn't a winner, and as such we should only keep him if he accepts a lower role and salary. In other words, we shouldn't keep him -- I know he can be great, but I don't agree with keeping anyone that doesn't want to play hard for the team. If they don't want to be here, get rid of them. But then that begs the question of whether or not he really wants to be here. Who the hell knows, but from what I can see, hell no he doesn't.

I'm sorry but I disagree with almost every word in this post.


No one would agree with everything, that's why it's an opinion

But just to clarify, you believe that:

Dwight boxes out on a consistent basis (i've already watched film to clarify this)
Team doctors would clear Dwight Howard to play when he's not healthy enough to play at a high level
Dwight is currently playing as hard as he can to make the playoffs


The middle one.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:09 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
OK. But. If that is what is bringing him down so much, the stuff he normally can do and how he dominates if he weren't coming off the back and now the shoulder, then WHY so much made about him wanting more touches and more stats and griping to others about Kobe. He gets hammered when he gets it in the key and he can't power through guys. Again my and others' take is he is pissed because he's nowhere near the MAN here that he is used to being. He feels entitiled to be treated that way even when he is currently a shell of himself. This is not a guy about the team. He should be happy others are here to take a lot of that pressure off him and the pounding that comes with.

I just want to clarify that I'm in no way excusing the behavior he's had thus far, but what I see is a man frustrated. A man who knows what the problem is, but because so much else is going wrong he's confused and lashing out.

Key words being at the end there: he's confused and lashing out.

He's blaming others because he doesn't want to say that it's his back. He doesn't want to admit his back is limiting him THIS MUCH. He wants to blame others. It's almost natural to be that way and especially when you look at his life up until this point he's had everything handed to him. He's just not mature enough to sit down and realize that physically he's incapable of these things so he needs to shut up and deal with it. He's still too immature to see that.

That kind of behavior can be unlearned. He SHOULD be past it, but he's not. I'm not going to hold it against him that he's acting this way. I've been seeing a struggling guy who is fighting the process because it's hard and it's scary and it's difficult to blame yourself, especially when you've never had to.

If he were 100% healthy I wouldn't just throw him under the buss, I'd be driving it. But right now there's so much wrong with him and with our franchise that I can't hold any one person responsible for the way things have gone this season. Not him, not Kobe, not Jim Buss, not Pau... It's just been a mess all around. And who can blame them? The man that runs the show was dying in front of them...
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 pm

The truth likely lies in between the 2 extreme POVs Laker fans have on Dwight currently. He's not 100% healthy. That's clear. His attitude and effort needs to be improved. That's also clear.

He's not a complete villain or a total martyr in this situation.

He can't control not being fully healthy at this time. However, he is in control of his attitude & effort. Those should be unwavering with the #1 goal being winning basketball games and getting this ship righted. It often seems those are less important to him than being liked and having fun. That's my personal issue with Dwight right now.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 pm

As I have watched this season unfold, I believe that things have been so overblown. Many so-called objective journalists take one minuscule piece of information and then try to make connections to further an agenda of fabricating drama about the Lakers.

I've read all the posts in this thread and can't believe some of the conclusions people have drawn with such little info. I believe that D12 is frustrated and losing never helps but I still believe that he will sign here and will be the franchise's cornerstone. It took LeBron a little while to "get it" and I believe the same thing with Howard. He just needs to mature.

Also, comparing Howard to Kobe is totally unfair. Kobe is a rare player with a high pain threshold. Some guys are just different and Howard is playing through injuries and recovering from others. People just need to cut this guy some slack.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:19 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:The truth likely lies in between the 2 extreme POVs Laker fans have on Dwight currently. He's not 100% healthy. That's clear. His attitude and effort needs to be improved. That's also clear.

He's not a complete villain or a total martyr in this situation.

He can't control not being fully healthy at this time. However, he is in control of his attitude & effort. Those should be unwavering with the #1 goal being winning basketball games and getting this ship righted. It often seems those are less important to him than being liked and having fun. That's my personal issue with Dwight right now.

I agree with everything you're saying. My only point is I understand why he is the way he is. And I understand his fear of his future in the NBA given his current health.

Definitely though that shouldn't stop him from giving us a full effort every night. Or at least his approximation of full effort. It's obvious when he's not playing hard and when he's playing as hard as he can.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:21 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:The truth likely lies in between the 2 extreme POVs Laker fans have on Dwight currently. He's not 100% healthy. That's clear. His attitude and effort needs to be improved. That's also clear.

He's not a complete villain or a total martyr in this situation.

He can't control not being fully healthy at this time. However, he is in control of his attitude & effort. Those should be unwavering with the #1 goal being winning basketball games and getting this ship righted. It often seems those are less important to him than being liked and having fun. That's my personal issue with Dwight right now.


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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:21 pm

Dwight speaking to the media today, here are some thing that are being said:

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan

Does Dwight Howard want to be traded? "I just want to win, right now, where I'm at." #Lakers


Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter

Howard: "I have to do whatever I can to help this team win ... all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

Dwight Howard on what it means to play for the Lakers: "It means a lot. You see what this team actually stands for." #GoLakers


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

More Dwight: "The longer I'm here the more I understand what this franchise means." #GoLakers


Serena Winters ‏@SerenaWinters

Dwight says the one thing Mitch tells him is to trust him
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:24 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Dwight speaking to the media today, here are some thing that are being said:

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan

Does Dwight Howard want to be traded? "I just want to win, right now, where I'm at." #Lakers


Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter

Howard: "I have to do whatever I can to help this team win ... all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

Dwight Howard on what it means to play for the Lakers: "It means a lot. You see what this team actually stands for." #GoLakers


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

More Dwight: "The longer I'm here the more I understand what this franchise means." #GoLakers


Serena Winters ‏@SerenaWinters

Dwight says the one thing Mitch tells him is to trust him


someone probably gona call him out on these comments too and label it PR fluff :man10:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby thisbjgz on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:25 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:Dwight speaking to the media today, here are some thing that are being said:

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan

Does Dwight Howard want to be traded? "I just want to win, right now, where I'm at." #Lakers


Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter

Howard: "I have to do whatever I can to help this team win ... all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

Dwight Howard on what it means to play for the Lakers: "It means a lot. You see what this team actually stands for." #GoLakers


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

More Dwight: "The longer I'm here the more I understand what this franchise means." #GoLakers


Serena Winters ‏@SerenaWinters

Dwight says the one thing Mitch tells him is to trust him



I really hope so Dwight..I really do...

Can Dr. Buss's death moved Dwight into seeing things more clearly now?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:26 pm

khmrP wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:Dwight speaking to the media today, here are some thing that are being said:

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan

Does Dwight Howard want to be traded? "I just want to win, right now, where I'm at." #Lakers


Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter

Howard: "I have to do whatever I can to help this team win ... all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

Dwight Howard on what it means to play for the Lakers: "It means a lot. You see what this team actually stands for." #GoLakers


Los Angeles Lakers ‏@Lakers

More Dwight: "The longer I'm here the more I understand what this franchise means." #GoLakers


Serena Winters ‏@SerenaWinters

Dwight says the one thing Mitch tells him is to trust him


someone probably gona call him out on these comments too and label it PR fluff :man10:


Sounds great. Dwight's been saying the right things for most of the season. I just want to see the right actions carry over personally.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:27 pm

"all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


will now be spun into..

Dwight was quoted saying Kobe needs to pass the damn ball.


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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Herm24 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:29 pm

T-48 hours till this bum is gone .. I want him out!
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:34 pm

Damn, being the same age as Dwight and having to make such life-changing decisions is a huge responsibility & couple that with dealing with the first two major injuries he's coping with has to be a challenge. No, he hasn't helped himself with things he has said & done.

However, right now, I'm supporting him 100%. All emotion aside. When he's healthy, he's the best center in the league. I know that. And, Dwight, if Mitch tells you to trust him, do it. Kobe wanted to leave town but he trusted the FO; and Pau Gasol came and so did championships. Just be patient. It will all come together...
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:35 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
"all of us have to sacrifice parts of our game for the team."


will now be spun into..

Dwight was quoted saying Kobe needs to pass the damn ball.


:wink:


LOL :man10:
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