D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri May 10, 2013 10:52 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
OH damn BURN... You got called "STUPID" Doc. Serious Pwnged (is that right?). You know getting nervous never helped no one get over their nerves. In fact I just got nervous because of the nerves from getting nervous. This Insider stuff about Howard going to another team... WOAH. Next someone gonna say that the Lakers are going to suck for years to come if we don't keep Howard. I might just go "stupid" too if that happened.

Anyway, Doc dont feel too bad man we all get owned sooner or later. Glad it wasn't me tough bro


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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sat May 11, 2013 7:07 am

why would svg want to go to Atlanta when he could go to HOUSTON!!! they have a YOUNG CORE! they nearly TOOK DOWN the defending WESTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS! PARSONS! LIN! OTHER GUYS! BEARDZ! THR333333ZZZ!!!

i wouldn't blame my wife for leaving me for the HOUSTON ROCKETS! Daryl Morey probably scouts better anniversary gifts, anyway.

also, OLAJUWON.

TWEETZ.

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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 8:56 am

abeer3 wrote:why would svg want to go to Atlanta when he could go to HOUSTON!!! they have a YOUNG CORE! they nearly TOOK DOWN the defending WESTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS! PARSONS! LIN! OTHER GUYS! BEARDZ! THR333333ZZZ!!!

i wouldn't blame my wife for leaving me for the HOUSTON ROCKETS! Daryl Morey probably scouts better anniversary gifts, anyway.

also, OLAJUWON.

TWEETZ.

out.


Just don't see much in Houston do you?....... :man10:
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sat May 11, 2013 5:08 pm

unless they get howard from the lakers, they're stuck in the mud. despite morey's GENIUS.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sat May 11, 2013 5:10 pm

^^results show he's a lot more of a genius than our ownership..... they paid a whole hell of a lot less for the same results. They can get a top tier free agent..... we can't.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun May 12, 2013 7:23 am

Rooscooter wrote:^^results show he's a lot more of a genius than our ownership..... they paid a whole hell of a lot less for the same results. They can get a top tier free agent..... we can't.

We can't because we secured our core that got us to the Finals 3 times. Hou in that span has E wins and and the 8th seed. Go ask Laker and Hou fans which do they prefer 2 Chips or meaningless E wins.

I know you're playing Devil's advocate because your not a big fan of DH but all teams go through a low point, difference is the Lakers have shown they're able to come back from those low points. Very challenging when you have a cap and basketball reasons. In fact you were the one who didn't like the Cp3 for Gasol trade but yet their ownership are more of a genius? If no veto we would of had Kobe, CP3 and what looked to be DH in the works. Sure Hou has a solid team, but even a broken down dysfunctional Laker team managed to leap frog them. We'll have another bad year but I trust our ownership will get us back to the top.

Now if you want to mention coaching that's a whole another thing, Jimmy sucks at picking coaches. Some people act like we're the Bobcats or something, sheesh.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby LAKEROC on Sun May 12, 2013 8:18 am

^Agreed. But ever time prior we were in a low point(i.e. Magic's retirement due to HIV), we we always resilient, and able to bounce back, largely because of the great and brilliance of Dr. Jerry Buss. Sadly, he is no longer with us.While, we are still the great franchise known as The Los Angeles Lakers; this is completely unfamiliar territory for the Lakers, due largely because of the great uncertainty with who is now steering the ship.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun May 12, 2013 8:35 am

We know who's steering the ship(wish it was Jeanie with Mitch) but I think the lowest point aside from HIV was Shaq being traded and us having no cap room and a bunch of D leaguers. At least next year all will be off the books except DH if he resigns(I think he will) and Nash, who I hope retires after this year.

The good Doc isn't here but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Lets not forget that Phil and Kobe don't make great personnel decisions either, remember Space Cadet and more recent Steve Nash?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sun May 12, 2013 10:36 am

I was going to respond to roo, but db nailed it. morey's general genius = 9th place. his genius pickup of a superstar = 8th place.

the lakers don't have space for a superstar because they already employ two. if it weren't for a major injury to one, the rockets wouldn't even be in the race for howard. and the irony is that morey, who's way smarter than the lakers management, is bending over backwards to get into the same position (capped out with Dwight howard as the centerpiece).
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 11:41 am

Spin..... Results are results. Past individual successes only count when planning a fantasy team. That is our current team in a nutshell.

Abeer.... Curious, who are your two superstars here.... The MVP's or one of the other two?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby thkthebest on Sun May 12, 2013 11:52 am

Morey managed to change nearly the entire team and somehow get better than last year. They have an extremely young core, a star SG, and amazing financial flexibility (lowest in the entire league). He also likes to keep his options open, and as a result, his team has a ton of non-guaranteed contracts. Garcia, Delfino, Brooks, Parsons, Smith, Anderson, Beverley, and Ohlbrecht are all on team options for next year. They could get another star to pair with Harden, or even two.

I'd say what he did with the Rockets was pretty genius. It's not like he had Kobe Bryant to work with for the past 7 years or so.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 12:17 pm

^^It's a scenario I wish we could somehow pull off. If we keep Howard we need a young core and another top 7 player.... as it is we seem more interested in trading for has been names rather than amassing picks and prospects to use as capital in rebuilding.

The new CBA is going to make it nearly impossible to go below the cap and build a championship team through free agency.... and especially so when you have two or three players making a lot more than they're worth.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun May 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Spin..... Results are results. Past individual successes only count when planning a fantasy team. That is our current team in a nutshell.

Abeer.... Curious, who are your two superstars here.... The MVP's or one of the other two?

You're spinning it yourself. Ya results are results, Kobe, Pau and at the time Bynum and Odom needed to get paid after taking us to the Finals for 3 straight years. I'm sure Laker fans and the rest of the league didn't say we had a fantasy team when we were raising the trophy.

Like I said the Jimmy knew Gasol and Odom had peaked and traded them away for CP3(a trade you and Kray said was bad for us) and a Player exception. So they make moves better than what Hou did, got an actual Superstar in CP3(ya I know he flops) I say actual because Harden is not a superstar. Multiple reports still had us getting Howard and a solid role player with that player X.

So again ask Laker fans here and Cottoncandy guy what do they prefer, 2 Chips and cap space after next year or missed play offs year after year and ONE 8th seed showing? Are they young and with cap space? Sure but if you look at us we can be young with cap space and a not too shabby Center.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 1:19 pm

^^ :man10: At what point did I mention anything in the past.... I was addressing the thought that Houston is a bunk operation and that we are without fault.....

Houston shed some pretty big contracts themselves in the last 24 months and seems to be landing on their feet.... we still have that process in front of us. I'm not that confident that we can do it.... they got under the line with the CBA... we didn't.

They've got pieces that other teams want and they utilize their picks.... we don't and don't. We're set up to rebuild this team by free agency alone. I just don't see how you can get Howard a leader (if he stays) and all of the pieces he needs to be effective in one offseason for 25 to 30 million. Top players are heavily incentivized to stay put and we don't exactly have a situation in place that guarantees championship contention do we?

I'm tying to be realistic here. Houston has youth, a young rising player and cap space. We have aged stars of yesteryear, a severely injured leader and a future "centerpiece" that neither is a closer or scorer on his own. We also have few picks and no developmental players on this squad. It's OK if you see it differently but to say I'm spinning this is not quite right.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun May 12, 2013 1:29 pm

As soon as the FO gets off this, we need superstars or nothing run they are on, we will be back on our feet.

Until then, we are stuck with superstars circa 2004-2009 and being told that it's better to stay put with 4 players that could retire in 2 years in our starting lineup and no bench behind them.

The reluctance to trade Pau after the CP3 debacle is the biggest mistake.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 2:19 pm

Doc Brown wrote:As soon as the FO gets off this, we need superstars or nothing run they are on, we will be back on our feet.

Until then, we are stuck with superstars circa 2004-2009 and being told that it's better to stay put with 4 players that could retire in 2 years in our starting lineup and no bench behind them.

The reluctance to trade Pau after the CP3 debacle is the biggest mistake.


Yup
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun May 12, 2013 2:26 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^ :man10: At what point did I mention anything in the past.... I was addressing the thought that Houston is a bunk operation and that we are without fault.....

Houston shed some pretty big contracts themselves in the last 24 months and seems to be landing on their feet.... we still have that process in front of us. I'm not that confident that we can do it.... they got under the line with the CBA... we didn't.

They've got pieces that other teams want and they utilize their picks.... we don't and don't. We're set up to rebuild this team by free agency alone. I just don't see how you can get Howard a leader (if he stays) and all of the pieces he needs to be effective in one offseason for 25 to 30 million. Top players are heavily incentivized to stay put and we don't exactly have a situation in place that guarantees championship contention do we?

I'm tying to be realistic here. Houston has youth, a young rising player and cap space. We have aged stars of yesteryear, a severely injured leader and a future "centerpiece" that neither is a closer or scorer on his own. We also have few picks and no developmental players on this squad. It's OK if you see it differently but to say I'm spinning this is not quite right.


Which is my point, if Phil had youth and picks he probably doesn't play them, so instead the FO got a vet in Gasol, paid him well since he was producing. We were able to sell picks to maintain the championship core. So it's either have youth and picks or do what that Lakers do and have vets with young role players like in 2008-2010. Which goes back to my point that you avoid, do fans want Chips like the Lakers and maybe have a few down years to recoup or should they be like Morey's version of Moneyball? Because you are the one that said he's more of a genius than our ownership group. Why, because he saved the team owner money for not going over the cap? Because it sure isn't because of the thropies he's delivered. Like I said they were young and healthy we were older and banged up and disfunctional at times yet we made a run and leap frogged them. Is that what Laker fans are happy about, that we are a higher seed than Hou? No, but its not exactly gloom and doom for years to come. We are gonna have a max player and cash to spend in 2014.

I also wouldn't say nothing can be done now, not when I once witnessed Mitch turn Kwame, Gasol and picks into Gasol and Finals appearances. Odds that something like that happens again? Eff, I don't know but now I won't be as surprised if it did happen because I know Jimmy and Mitch are trying to be championship Lakers and not the Bobcats. Oh and I agree with Doc, once Gasol trade didn't go down, I think you cut your loses short and go for what ever you can get for Gasol. Kobe wouldn't of been happy but like I said Kobe doesn't excatly make a good GM. The only thing I don't trust Jimmy with is coaching hires, he should leave that up to Mitch.

Edit:
I think we need to do like we did in our championship years, 2 superstars and role players like Ariza, Shannon Brown mold instead of going after slow unathletic guys like Meeks and Jamison, sure Roach was solid but we need speed and smart players on D.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby karacha on Sun May 12, 2013 2:42 pm

Meeks is not un-athletic at all. He just does not play the "athletic style" of basketball, in general. But you still have a point.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 3:47 pm

D.B. Cooper wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:^^ :man10: At what point did I mention anything in the past.... I was addressing the thought that Houston is a bunk operation and that we are without fault.....

Houston shed some pretty big contracts themselves in the last 24 months and seems to be landing on their feet.... we still have that process in front of us. I'm not that confident that we can do it.... they got under the line with the CBA... we didn't.

They've got pieces that other teams want and they utilize their picks.... we don't and don't. We're set up to rebuild this team by free agency alone. I just don't see how you can get Howard a leader (if he stays) and all of the pieces he needs to be effective in one offseason for 25 to 30 million. Top players are heavily incentivized to stay put and we don't exactly have a situation in place that guarantees championship contention do we?

I'm tying to be realistic here. Houston has youth, a young rising player and cap space. We have aged stars of yesteryear, a severely injured leader and a future "centerpiece" that neither is a closer or scorer on his own. We also have few picks and no developmental players on this squad. It's OK if you see it differently but to say I'm spinning this is not quite right.


Which is my point, if Phil had youth and picks he probably doesn't play them, so instead the FO got a vet in Gasol, paid him well since he was producing. We were able to sell picks to maintain the championship core. So it's either have youth and picks or do what that Lakers do and have vets with young role players like in 2008-2010. Which goes back to my point that you avoid, do fans want Chips like the Lakers and maybe have a few down years to recoup or should they be like Morey's version of Moneyball? Because you are the one that said he's more of a genius than our ownership group. Why, because he saved the team owner money for not going over the cap? Because it sure isn't because of the thropies he's delivered. Like I said they were young and healthy we were older and banged up and disfunctional at times yet we made a run and leap frogged them. Is that what Laker fans are happy about, that we are a higher seed than Hou? No, but its not exactly gloom and doom for years to come. We are gonna have a max player and cash to spend in 2014.

I also wouldn't say nothing can be done now, not when I once witnessed Mitch turn Kwame, Gasol and picks into Gasol and Finals appearances. Odds that something like that happens again? Eff, I don't know but now I won't be as surprised if it did happen because I know Jimmy and Mitch are trying to be championship Lakers and not the Bobcats. Oh and I agree with Doc, once Gasol trade didn't go down, I think you cut your loses short and go for what ever you can get for Gasol. Kobe wouldn't of been happy but like I said Kobe doesn't excatly make a good GM. The only thing I don't trust Jimmy with is coaching hires, he should leave that up to Mitch.

Edit:
I think we need to do like we did in our championship years, 2 superstars and role players like Ariza, Shannon Brown mold instead of going after slow unathletic guys like Meeks and Jamison, sure Roach was solid but we need speed and smart players on D.


Again, I haven't been looking backwards here. We had great results with what we did and the difference between us and everyone else was Kobe.

The points I've been focusing on are the facts of where we are today. Abeer has made some points about us vs Houston going forward that I don't see the same way. Phil and Kwame are the past. Can we pull it off again? Maybe, but everyone needs to remember is that in the past we had Kobe and were searching for a number two. We now have a number two who thinks he's a number one and we're now searching for the top guy.... Just a little different than adding Gasol IMHO.... Then you add in the new CBA and it gets even harder.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sun May 12, 2013 4:45 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Spin..... Results are results. Past individual successes only count when planning a fantasy team. That is our current team in a nutshell.


results are indeed results: how's morey doing again?

if he was la's gm, he would have been fired two years ago, imo. it's easy with no expectations.

Abeer.... Curious, who are your two superstars here.... The MVP's or one of the other two?


howard and kobe. if you're going to argue howard's not a superstar, then i'm not sure how many there are in the league. maybe one? two?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sun May 12, 2013 4:52 pm

thkthebest wrote:Morey managed to change nearly the entire team and somehow get better than last year.


marginally better, despite the fanfare. YAWN.

They have an extremely young core,


young does not equal good. no star potential there at all. just cheap.
a star SG,


granted, but he's not big enough to carry anything. monta ellis looked almost as good at the same age, stat-wise and win-wise.

and amazing financial flexibility (lowest in the entire league).


not sure that's true, and not sure how much it matters now that 10 teams can offer max every summer.

He also likes to keep his options open, and as a result, his team has a ton of non-guaranteed contracts. Garcia, Delfino, Brooks, Parsons, Smith, Anderson, Beverley, and Ohlbrecht are all on team options for next year. They could get another star to pair with Harden, or even two.


not true. they have to give up Garcia, delfino, and probably brooks just to make an offer for howard. the rest, save parsons, are totally unimpressive nba players. not getting another star. same reason they couldn't trade for one until they dumped their best player for a high pick last year. other gms know how useless the rockets role players are.

I'd say what he did with the Rockets was pretty genius. It's not like he had Kobe Bryant to work with for the past 7 years or so.


if only I could be judged by the same metric at my job. they've finished 9th or 8th for the past 4 years, no? HELLZ YEAH!!!!! sorry, while I can't blame morey for perpetually selling hope, I can blame fans and media for buying it.

lakers were busy winning titles during morey's tenure, and if howard stays with them, they'll be busy outperforming his franchise for the foreseeable future, despite their mediocre young core.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Congo Cash on Sun May 12, 2013 5:04 pm

Unbelievable... A mediocre (at best) GM like Morey is getting too much love... But hey, if reaching 8-10th seed every year is their thing, that's not my problem...
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Sun May 12, 2013 6:29 pm

Congo Cash wrote:Unbelievable... A mediocre (at best) GM like Morey is getting too much love... But hey, if reaching 8-10th seed every year is their thing, that's not my problem...


ummm, I don't think you get it... they're young.

does that help?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun May 12, 2013 6:34 pm

granted, but he's not big enough to carry anything. monta ellis looked almost as good at the same age, stat-wise and win-wise.


No dude. Just no
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 pm

abeer3 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Spin..... Results are results. Past individual successes only count when planning a fantasy team. That is our current team in a nutshell.


results are indeed results: how's morey doing again?

if he was la's gm, he would have been fired two years ago, imo. it's easy with no expectations.

Abeer.... Curious, who are your two superstars here.... The MVP's or one of the other two?


howard and kobe. if you're going to argue howard's not a superstar, then i'm not sure how many there are in the league. maybe one? two?


I was just wondering how and why you sift players into and out of catigories. Of the four Howard has the least team accomplishments. Nash has to MVP's, Gasol two Chips...... He does however have a phone booth!

For the record I count 2 or 3 "superstars" in the league. Kobe, Duncan and Bron.

As for the the Houston GM stuff.... I couldn't care less who the GM is.... They have done a good job in positioning themselves for this summer and just had a season as good as ours. How you can marginalize that is getting a little petty it seems. Harden is incomplete but he's also pretty good. I'd say he's led a team of players worse than Howard teams the last two years just as far..... So he's a flawed young player on a first round playoff team.... Nothing more or less. Houston has room to sign a top player.... Sounds like they did a decent job running the team wouldn't you?
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